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UMR Does GWII

post #1 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Edit Note:

I modified the UPOG and UBOG settings after hooking my DVD player up with a S-Video connection. 12/3/02

Added a new section on how to improve detail level. This is not a minor improvement. 12/3/02

Modified overall settings after changing color temperature back to factory warm and added section on adjusting the color decoder. 12/4/02

Updated to latest settings and removed section on how to use modes other than PRO. 12/9/02

Added link to download settings. 12/11/02

Modified link and deleted the old info here 1/12/03

Modified link to download settings. 1/31/03

Modified link to download settings and FAQ file. 2/15/03

Modified link to download new settings and FAQ file. 2/18/03

Modified link to download new setting. 9/6/03

Removed link to download settings to prevent people from having problems. 10/29/03

For more info on why click here.

P.S. Read the entire thread and you will find all of the info on how to tweak this set.
post #2 of 1691
Non-CRT TVs do not have Scan Velocity Modulation, a feature that can add unwanted edge enhancement.

Do Vivid and Standard modes on the LCD XBR have some similar sharpness/edge enhancement that can be disabled so they are more like Pro mode? If so, have you figured out what that code might be?

Any idea what Mild is doing? The ends of the resolution patterns (S&V Home Theater Tune-Up DVD) wave like tadpoles in Mild mode, whereas they're still in Vivid, Standard and Pro modes -- Pro being the best -- the 6.75 straight-lines-in-a-circle (lower right side of chart) are even brightness in Pro mode -- Vivid and Standard seem to be set with weird sharpness settings that don't allow you to adjust sharpness well.
post #3 of 1691
Thread Starter 
eweiss,

No need to remove your post. It seems on target to me.

I believe Vivid and Standard mode look like PRO if you change the settings I suggested. I am not sure which ones are critical, but they look the same to me after these changes.

Mild seems to be a different mode from all the others. Look at Table 1 for 2170P-1 it shows different settings for Mild and NOT Mild. I avoided mild because I did not really need it and it looked odd to me also.
post #4 of 1691
Umr,

I have implemented your sm settings on my 60" XBR. Either I have improved my eye sight or the Dish Network feed through s-video (input) is looking better. There are minor differences from your original setting:

Mode: Pro
Picture: 11 ticks from center.
Sharpness: 4 ticks from center (greater than 50%).

The locals are looking better but I still have problem watching sports... By the way, I rather watch the satellite feed on 4:3 (normal) rather than any other mode. If I use any other mode, I get more satellite artifacts. The mode that looks the best is full but it is hard to watch 4:3 material on full mode. Please post any other changes that you make.

I have not seen any HD signal on my Tv and right now I am debating whether to do it now or wait unti dish comes out with their HD PVR. I watched DVD movies this past weekend and the tv was awesome. I have to play a DVD and see how it looks with these new settings.

Thanks.
post #5 of 1691
Thread Starter 
motjes2,

Thanks for the feedback.

I would suggest you adjust the user menu for PRO with the DVD player first and then use UPOG, UBOG, UCOF, UHOF and SHOF to fine tune the other inputs in PRO if you didn't do this already. These settings appear to be offsets for the user menu. My values are just a starting point. What I did was calibrate my set with the DVD player. Then I visually adjusted the picture and brightness for HD while trying to keep the settings the same for that input's PRO mode. Once that was complete I used the HD signal to calibrate my Dish signal with a local channel by adjusting the brightness and picture for that input while keeping the other PRO mode settings constant for that input.

I have read another reply from someone with TIVO who had great results too. I think the key settings for improving the satellite image are the gamma settings and dropping the picture and brightness. The factory settings appear to be off for the s-video and composite inputs.

I like the results from adjusting white balance too, but I am a little concerned about putting that information out since that is probably very set dependent.

I also use Normal mode for everything. The Sony will then automatically adjust the scaling to match the signal.

HD on my set is fabulous.
post #6 of 1691
Thread Starter 
I have modified my original post and added a new tweak to improve image detail.
post #7 of 1691
Thread Starter 
For those interested in what PIC-BOOST is doing this link seems to be documentation for the chip located on BC board.

TDA9178
post #8 of 1691
umr
You have PM
post #9 of 1691
motjes,

I had the same issue of waiting to get a Dish 6000 or wait for the PVR. The result is that I got the Dish600. Reason was the following....

1) Dish is known for missed release dates and who knows when the PVR will finally arrive and when it does you can be assured it will have a few bugs in it.

2) It will come out expensive based on previous Dish releases.

3) During the deleys and frustration you will be missing some good HD.. Seeing Shrek in HD is something to see for one. This TV rocks on true HD material.. Boy I wish they would do the superbowl in HD...

That is why I did not wait. It does also help a bit with picture quality but I am dealing with a blurry picture issue and I am not sure if it is do to the reciever. I know what soft is and this is not a soft picture it is blurry.
post #10 of 1691
WeeJavaDude,

The superbowl will be in 720p this year (ABC).
post #11 of 1691
umr,

Thanks for all your efforts. Greatly appreciated!!

I have been eyeing a GWII for a while and thought that its major weakness (beyond the blacks) was the relative lack of picture sharpness in comparison to the HLM507. With all these tweaks, how do you now compare the GWII picture to the HLM507?
post #12 of 1691
Thread Starter 
jdkJake,

I think the GWII is very close to the 507 in detail if not superior depending on source material with these changes.
post #13 of 1691
UMR,

I've applied your suggested settings to my 50" and directivo on video 1 with excellent results. Although I havent decided whether its a little too dark for me now or I just got used to how it looked previously.

Did you appy the gamm=4 and blk=0 to your dvd input, also, or only dish?
post #14 of 1691
Thread Starter 
furiousry

I am using PRO mode for Video 5 which uses gamm=4 & blk=0 by default.
post #15 of 1691
Thread Starter 
For those who are interested I have added information on how to adjust your color decoder to my first post and modified my settings based on changing the service menu items and restoring factory color temperature.

The only thing I would like to improve now is the white balance, but it has been difficult to better the factory warm setting.
post #16 of 1691
umr

I might try these settings this weekend. How long does it take to adjust
the settings and how much gamble is it?
My wife likes the settings now, so I would have to convince her to let me
play around with it and hopefully not mess it up.
post #17 of 1691
umr -- You are the Graham Norbury of the KF-xxXBR800. Graham took it upon himself to master the codes and tweaks of last year's HW series of Sony RPTVs and posted his tweaks at http://www.***************.com -- and we are very grateful to you for doing this here for us.
post #18 of 1691
Thread Starter 
rgathright,

I don't believe anything I have posted is a gamble, but it depends on your level of comfort with these things. I have only posted what I tried that worked so you are avoiding a lot of the risk that I took experimenting. However, this is the service menu so danger does await for changing the wrong item.

If you want to play it safe write the original settings you are changing down and be sure to record the category, item name, item number, data value, input and signal type like Video 5 480i. I would also avoid trying to correct Vivid, Standard and Mild because you have to change a lot of items to do that and your chances of making a mistake increase dramatically with little improvement if you can live with the PRO mode. Also, anytime you think you might have hit the increment or decrement buttons by mistake unplug the tv (after you let it cool down of course).

Start with the items for improved detail and do not save anything. As long as you don't change inputs or modes these changes will stay in effect. If you don't like it return the items to their old values or unplug the TV. If you do like it save those settings and go to the next mode/input/signal type you plan to use. This improvement should not upset anyone since it sharpens the detail.

The rest could be hit or miss depending on your preference. If you want a more accurate display the color decoder changes are a real improvement along with the gamma table changes for s-video/composite/rf inputs.

The riskiest part is changing the UPOG and UBOG for each input since you must save them and cycle through the modes before you can see the effect. However, this is a must if you plan to use PRO mode for every input and you need different levels for various inputs. There is another option to this that I am going to look into, but I don't think it will involve fewer changes in the service menu.
post #19 of 1691
Umr,

Keep at it...

Last night I implemented the "THE IMAGE DETAIL" but I saw very little improvement or none. I have to check tonight again because I was a little busy with other things. I have not done "THE COLOR DECODER" yet. I will try tonight.

Before I implemented the tweaks, I could hardly watch any sports on it (I subscribe to NBA LP (this is supposed to have less compression than the other dish channels). Now, I can watch even at a 10 feet distance. I still see artifacts when there is movement. But the improvement has been quite good. I'll let you know tonight...
post #20 of 1691
Thread Starter 
motjes2

You need to be on a high quality source to see the difference. I was looking at AOTC on dvd. Go in the service menu while you are watching a high quality dvd source that is paused and the change should be obvious.
post #21 of 1691
Umr,

I believe you told me that you are using the samsung SIR-T165. Is this correct? Questions:

(1) how is the Digital (non-HD) over the air compare with the Dish locals (I am assuming that you subscribe to dish local)?

(2) have you used the scaler of the sir-t165 for the dish signal to see if there is any gain?
post #22 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by motjes2
Umr,

I believe you told me that you are using the samsung SIR-T165. Is this correct? Questions:

(1) how is the Digital (non-HD) over the air compare with the Dish locals (I am assuming that you subscribe to dish local)?

(2) have you used the scaler of the sir-t165 for the dish signal to see if there is any gain?

The locals on the SIR-T165 are definately better than dish. I would cancel my locals if I wasn't using a PVR.

I have not tried the scaler in SIR-T165 because switching inputs on the Samsung is much more difficult (WAF) than the Sony with my Pronto and many other people think it is not all that great.
post #23 of 1691
umr

What do you mean by "cycle through the modes", also do you have to reset
these each time you switch from SD, DVD and HD.
post #24 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by rgathright
umr

What do you mean by "cycle through the modes", also do you have to reset
these each time you switch from SD, DVD and HD.

By "cycle through the modes" I mean you need to force the TV to load the settings for PRO by leaving PRO mode and then reentering it.

Not sure what you mean by reset.

The thing to know is that the TV has memory locations for each input type and display resolution. This means that DVI with 1080i may be a different memory location from DVI with 720p depending on the parameter. You need to change all inputs and resolutions you will be using to achieve the desired result. To do this you must select the input while in the SM, change the values and save them before leaving that mode (PRO...) or input or resolution, or the changes will be lost.

Once these changes are saved they are permanent until you save something else in the SM.
post #25 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by eweiss
umr -- You are the Graham Norbury of the KF-xxXBR800. Graham took it upon himself to master the codes and tweaks of last year's HW series of Sony RPTVs and posted his tweaks at http://www.***************.com -- and we are very grateful to you for doing this here for us.

Yes, as a potential purchaser of the 50" GWII, your work is easing my fears about making the leap...

Are you referencing a factory service manual or just trial/error?

Is a factory service manual available? If so, where/how much?


Thanks!
post #26 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by SimRacer
Yes, as a potential purchaser of the 50" GWII, your work is easing my fears about making the leap...

Are you referencing a factory service manual or just trial/error?

Is a factory service manual available? If so, where/how much?


Thanks!

You can order/buy the Service Manual for the KF-50XBR800/KF-60XBR800 for $29 + tax + $3.50 s&h from Sony (877) 865-SONY (7669) -- if that # isn't right, eventually you'll get a person who will tell you what toll-free number to call to order the "Service Manual." You'll have it in less than a week, likely -- I think mine came in 4 days -- the same day my TV was delivered from Tweeter. The grids/charts are confusing, but you'll have ALL the information that umr is referring to.
post #27 of 1691
umr, when are you coming to florida to do my gw?
post #28 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by eweiss
You can order/buy the Service Manual for the KF-50XBR800/KF-60XBR800 for $29 + tax + $3.50 s&h from Sony (877) 865-SONY (7669) -- if that # isn't right, eventually you'll get a person who will tell you what toll-free number to call to order the "Service Manual." You'll have it in less than a week, likely -- I think mine came in 4 days -- the same day my TV was delivered from Tweeter. The grids/charts are confusing, but you'll have ALL the information that umr is referring to.

Thank you, sounds like I'll be ordering one tomorrow
post #29 of 1691
umr,

I have made a spreadsheet with the settings that you have proposed so far. Since I though it was a good idea to follow the progression of all the tweaks that are made I have included the ones you did on 12/3 and 12/4. I need to convert the spreadsheet to pdf in order to post it but I would like to e-mail it to you before it is posted if you do not mind.
post #30 of 1691
umr,

I have applied the latest settings. I find that on the 60" the settings made the screen go darker than before. It helps with the dish artifacts specially on normal view and it really helps the wide zoom mode for letterbox material. However, whenever there is action on a tv program, I see the artifacts. Not as bad as before. Which of the settings do you think I might want to try to either lower or increase to hide them a little more. I think since you have a 50", you must see less of them. Thanks for your help.
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