or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › UMR Does GWII
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

UMR Does GWII - Page 6

post #151 of 1691
Thread Starter 
jdpg2,

Unfortunately, the XBR geometry adjustments that would normally fix what you are seeing do not work on this TV. Your only hope is if there is some way to adjust the projector, but I don't know how. I have been trying to get a manual for the projector part of the television, but have not had any luck so far.

My guess is like yours that this is an optical issue and you may be stuck.
post #152 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by ADGrant
So two of us see the green and magenta and one does not (umr). Anyone else care to comment.

UMR said he saw about .5 pixel's worth, and if I read his post correctly it was during pattern viewing. I don't see this during anything but pattern viewing. Normal TV images don't reveal the misconvergence.


Ron
post #153 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by ADGrant
So two of us see the green and magenta and one does not (umr). Anyone else care to comment.

ADGrant,

I was kidding.

I said I was seeing about 1/2 a pixel of color fringing which is what I think you are describing. I believe you will see this on close examination of almost any RPTV with bright white lines or dots on a black background. It is an effect called chromatic aberration. This effect is caused by the inability of the optics to bring all of the wavelengths of visible light to focus at the same point.

Optics that are capable of bringing three wavelengths of visible light to focus at the same point are called apochromatic. The shorter the focal length the more difficult (read expensive) this is to do. I doubt any RPTV in this price range is using apochromatic optics. I would guess this would add another $2,000 to $10,000 to the price of the set depending on the diameter of the objective lens and focal length.

This effect may make it difficult for a RPTV to reach 1080p resolution with white light since we are seeing the effects at 1366x768p. The resolution of monochromatic objects will be less of a problem.
post #154 of 1691
Thread Starter 
UUronl,

The effects of chromatic aberration on normal images is very subtle, but unfortunately it is impacting the actual resolution of the set.
post #155 of 1691
UMR, my TV seems much worse than yours in this regard and much worse the the 50 on display at my local retailer. My other hobby is photography so I understand the limtations of lenses very well. I think what we are seeing has more do do with misalignment than chromatic aberrations since one side of the image is green and the other rmagenta. Chromatic abberatiosn tend to be symetrical and occur in high contrast situations.

In any case, my TV seems worse than many (including that 50 in the store which now looks so small). I am having the TV replaced tomorrow. Hopefully the second one is better.
post #156 of 1691
UMR, thank you very much for all your efforts in making all our GWIIs all they should be. I'm sure all that have used your tweaks are impressed. I do have one question. I have my GWII connected to my hd200 via the DVI cable only (no s-video). Everything is outputed from the hd200 in 1080i. HD is of coarse outstanding and even SD is very good. At first I used the auto-DVI, but found the SD picture greatly improved when I output all DIRECTV channels in 1080i. Have you tried this and if so, is this setup better than using DVI for HD and s-video for SD? Again, thanks for all you efforts.

Mike
post #157 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Mike,

I have had problems with the DVI connection from my SIR-T165. The picture level is too low and there appear to be some artifacts. I don't know who is at fault, but I am feeding my STB at 1080i through input 6 now and it is much better.

I used my DVD player as the reference source through my STB to generate the test images. The strange thing was even the DVD player looked a little better on test images through the STB. I guess going from 480i to 1080i in the STB and 1080i to 768p in the GWII works a little better than 480i to 768p in the GWiII on test images.
post #158 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by umr
Mike,

I have had problems with the DVI connection from my SIR-T165. The picture level is too low and there appear to be some artifacts. I don't know who is at fault, but I am feeding my STB at 1080i through input 6 now and it is much better.

I used my DVD player as the reference source through my STB to generate the test images. The strange thing was even the DVD player looked a little better on test images through the STB. I guess going from 480i to 1080i in the STB and 1080i to 768p in the GWII works a little better than 480i to 768p in the GWiII on test images.

UMR,

Please clarify your most recent post. Are you saying that you fed the output from your DVD into the STB then out to the GWII?

If so, what were the exact connections? Does this mean you were able to display the AVIA disk (for example) in 1080i? Does the SAT-HD200 have the capability to accept another source (DVD)?

Thanks,

MDM
post #159 of 1691
What is the latest version of the Tweak File? 12/18 or is there a more recent one?

Thanks,

MDM
post #160 of 1691
mdm_boulder,

12/18 on page 7.
post #161 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by mdm_boulder
UMR,

Please clarify your most recent post. Are you saying that you fed the output from your DVD into the STB then out to the GWII?

If so, what were the exact connections? Does this mean you were able to display the AVIA disk (for example) in 1080i? Does the SAT-HD200 have the capability to accept another source (DVD)?

Thanks,

MDM

Yes, my STB will accept other inputs and convert them to 720p or 1080i.

My connection path was:
Avia in my DVP-S7000 (DVD Player) through component input to Samsung SIR-T165 (HDTV STB) through component input and DVI input @ 1080i or 720p.

The SAT-HD200 does not appear to have this capability.
post #162 of 1691
UMR-
Interesting connection of your DVD through the STB...hmmm...you mentioned 480i>>1080i>>768p. I am not certain that you are doing yourself any favor, in comparison w/ a progressive scan DVD...of 480p (and this is DIRECTLY into the TV w/ no additional connections). This is worth checking into though.
post #163 of 1691
Thread Starter 
WOLVERNOLE,

I don't use this path normally, but I did use it to generate SMPTE color bars and other test patterns to more accurately calibrate the input. The results were different for each input type I tried including; 1080i DVI, 1080i Component, 480i Component and 480i S-Video. Since I don't have a signal generator this was my next best alternative until I can get SMTPE color bars on D-VHS.

I also like the results better than just copying the settings from 480i component to everything else. It just takes more effort.

The strange thing was that the DVD player resolution patterns actually looked better going in at 1080i through the STB than 480i component.
post #164 of 1691
Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob
post #165 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by xrob
Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob

I would assume if you break it with a setting in the Service Menu Sony would be able to void the warranty just like you dropped it.
post #166 of 1691
Hey guys,

Just got my GW II 50" today. Dam beautiful, even out of the box. My wife and i were drooling while watching gladiator. No tweaks. SD Signal however is marginal. I'm dying to apply the tweaks, have to wait until my AVIA disk arrives tomorrow.

Couple quick questions

1) WIth the tweaks, does black detail improve significantly?
2) Is there a factory reset function if you mess up to get everything back to default?
3) I have an interlaced DVD player now, thinking of getting a progressive scan. Is there a large noticeable difference between the two modes?
4) On average, how long do the tweaks take to apply to one input (trying to figure out a time to do them since we're so busy this week)
5) Dumb question - but why the hell doesn't Sony ship the set tweaked if it makes such difference? I'm sure it would help move a lot more product off the showroom floor (default Vivid mode is horrible)

Thank you all in this great thread for the great work. This thread made me feel comfortable with my purchase.
post #167 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by TommyTT
Hey guys,

Just got my GW II 50" today. Dam beautiful, even out of the box. My wife and i were drooling while watching gladiator. No tweaks. SD Signal however is marginal. I'm dying to apply the tweaks, have to wait until my AVIA disk arrives tomorrow.

Couple quick questions

1) WIth the tweaks, does black detail improve significantly?
2) Is there a factory reset function if you mess up to get everything back to default?
3) I have an interlaced DVD player now, thinking of getting a progressive scan. Is there a large noticeable difference between the two modes?
4) On average, how long do the tweaks take to apply to one input (trying to figure out a time to do them since we're so busy this week)
5) Dumb question - but why the hell doesn't Sony ship the set tweaked if it makes such difference? I'm sure it would help move a lot more product off the showroom floor (default Vivid mode is horrible)

Thank you all in this great thread for the great work. This thread made me feel comfortable with my purchase.

1) The black detail is not really a problem with this set it is the black levels. The gamma change will make the set looked less washed out. Calibrating picture and brightness correctly will display all black details (levels), but the blackest black is going to stay the same.
2) Yes and no. There is a function, but I don't have the guts to use it. I have read about many problems with this function.
3) The main difference is not interlaced/progressive on this set. The big differences are going to be SMPTE level accuracy, MPEG decompression artifacts, S/N ratio and chroma delay.
4) Not sure. Maybe 30 minutes to one hour depending on number of inputs.
5) Don't know, maybe marketing. This kind of thing happens with most TVs.
post #168 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by umr
1) The black detail is not really a problem with this set it is the black levels. The gamma change will make the set looked less washed out. Calibrating picture and brightness correctly will display all black details (levels), but the blackest black is going to stay the same.
2) Yes and no. There is a function, but I don't have the guts to use it. I have read about many problems with this function.
3) The main difference is not interlaced/progressive on this set. The big differences are going to be SMPTE level accuracy, MPEG decompression artifacts, S/N ratio and chroma delay.
4) Not sure. Maybe 30 minutes to one hour depending on number of inputs.
5) Don't know, maybe marketing. This kind of thing happens with most TVs.

I'm not much of a videophile.. but for instance, last night we watched John Q Public and Minority report. Where characters were wearing a black suit, or had black hair, that black area was just pure black, no detail. The darkness of the black was nice, but i could see any detail. So i cranked brightness up and got more detail, but the picture was too bright and washed out. My Avia disk just came in from Amazon, so i'm going to give the Gamma tweak a try. If I can just get a bit more detail on the blacks, i'd be happy as a punch.
post #169 of 1691
I've tried calibrating the black levels using Avia on my Sony DVP-F11 player using S-Video (the Panny RP-82 is on back order). I've already applied the GAMMA/BLK tweak in the service menu.

Using the black level screen (I don't remember what it's called -- it's the one with the black on the left half of the screen and white on the right half), I can't see any difference in black levels at all. I'm supposed to see 2 black lines moving back and forth and adjust it so one of them disappears while I can still see the other one. No matter what I do with the brightness I can't see any of the 2 lines. Anyone else have the same problem?

Using the THX Optimizer to adjust the brightness (with the screen with the varying black level boxes on the top and bottom), I'm supposed to be able to see the 7th darkest box. I can only see up to the 5th, even with brightness turned up all the way. What's wrong here? Am I doing anything wrong with my Contrast? I have that turned all the way up.

Is this a problem with the set in general, am I missing a setting, or is my set defective?
post #170 of 1691
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by xrob
Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:


Originally posted by umr
I would assume if you break it with a setting in the Service Menu Sony would be able to void the warranty just like you dropped it.


Yes I would think that's a given. I've had my 50" for a week now & and am quite happy for the most part. My new panny PR-82 DVD player looks so good that you would think you wouldn't need to do any tweeks.

UMR, or anyone that knows for sure. I was told by a manager at Sound Track that the TV itself records how many times the sevice menue has been accessed. Is this true?

If so. If we do the tweeks with no probs. A year later. Something quits working that is NOT the falt of ME. The sevice guy comes to check it out. Sees that someone that is not authorized to sevice it has been in there & can say sorry warantee void!

I really want to do all the tweeks. DVD looks great as it is but SD could look alot better. It just barely gets by as is. I'm also disapointed with how my Mini DV camcorder looks true s-video.

By the way I did ajust the user menue by UMR's #'s (DRC).

TommyTT, when you watched Minority Report did you see alot more grainyness to the whole movie that other DVDs? It's the only one that I've see that didn't look that great.
post #171 of 1691
UMR, one other thing I forgot to ask. In 4:3 mode the verticle sides of the pic. are slightly bowed inward. I don't think thats right. I've seen most of the GW's in the showroom showing the same thing. I did see one however that was pefectly strait. I would asume that you can fix this in the service menue. Am I right? Thanks, Scott
post #172 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by xrob
Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob

I have found the following statements related to user maintenance or modification of TV that might affect or void the warranty. Please correct me if I overlooked something.

1. Operating Instructions Manual
KF-50XBR800
KF-60XBR800

p. 4 "Refer all servicing to qualified service personnel. Servicing is required when the apparatus has been damaged in any way,...."

p. 7 "Servicing Do not attempt to service the set by yourself since opening the cabinet may expose you to dangerous voltage or other hazards. Refer all servicing to qualified service personnel."

These statements seem, in context, to define servicing as related to when the apparatus has been damaged, and also view servicing as an opening-the-cabinet task. NEITHER OF THESE relates, IMO, to doing Service Menu tweaks.

2. SONY LIMITED WARRANTY

"This warranty does not cover customer instruction, installation, set up adjustments or signal reception problems."

"This warranty does not cover cosmetic damage or damage due to acts of God, accident, misuse, abuse, negligence, commercial use, or modification of, or to any part of the Product, including the antenna. This warranty does not cover damage due to improper operation or maintenance, connection to improper voltage supply, or attempted repair by anyone other than a facility authorized by Sony to service the Product."

This also does not seem to refer to Service Menu tweaks. You are not modifying any part of the Product, just making parameter adjustments as you do when you use the User Menu and adjust, e.g., DRC. You are not adding anything to or installing anything into or onto the TV. You are also not making an "attempted repair by anyone other than a facility authorized by Sony" as you are not repairing anything, nor doing any "servicing" as described in the Operating Instructions Manual (i.e., you are not dealing with a damaged product, nor opening the cabinet).

With this LCD TV, you are not modifying or adjusting the positioning or alignment of the LCD panels. You are not adjusting or increasing the intensity or heat of the light bulb. You are hopefully not stupid enough to turn off or disable the fans -- which COULD cause heat damage to the TV. You are not moving any parts or physically adjusting the focusing mechanism -- if you notice bad focus or LCD alignment/convergence under your warranty period, it's TV replacement time, not "do Service Menu tweaks" time. This TV has no burn-in issue, so nothing you can do can damage images or phosphors when you adjust color and brightness and gamma and input settings, etc., as far as I know.


3. Tweeter Performance Package (extended warranty) brochure

Nothing in this brochure that I could find.

4. SERVICE MANUAL LA-1A CHASSIS
KF-50XBR800 RMY912 US/Canada
KF-60XBR800 RMY912 US/Canada

Nothing in this manual that I could find.

Also, Sony sold me and everyone else the Service Manual without prequalifying us or restricting it for sale to authorized and certified repair persons or technicians.

I am no lawyer, but I would be a-hootin' and a-hollerin' and waving the above statements in the face of my salesperson if they refused a legitimate repair based on an attempt to void the warranty because we, as users/owners, had entered the Service Menu.
post #173 of 1691
Well done eweiss. I just now might do these adjustments this week.
post #174 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by rgathright
Well done eweiss. I just now might do these adjustments this week.

Thanks. I hope someone(s) who also has the Service Manual will review the operating instructions manual, the warranty statement, and the service manual to make sure I did in fact note every relevant or tangentially-relevant clause or statement.

Tweak away!!

And ... is there in fact any code or instruction in the Service Manual that does log the number of times the Service Menu has been accessed or used?
post #175 of 1691
I am sorry to be asking a question not relevant to the current discussion. I am trying to get started on these tweaks and need a little help.

I am trying to set the basic settings and have a couple of questions:

1) Is the basic settings (color, brightness, etc.) that are posted in the document what I should be using? Will the Avia DVD give me pretty much the same results?

2) When I try to set Cinemotion and DRC it will not let me into Advanced Video on Video 5 (DVD) or Video 7 (HD200). It will let me do it on Video 6 (XBOX). What am I doing wrong? Thanks so much in advance.

SCR
post #176 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by Southerncentralrain2
I am sorry to be asking a question not relevant to the current discussion. I am trying to get started on these tweaks and need a little help.

I am trying to set the basic settings and have a couple of questions:

1) Is the basic settings (color, brightness, etc.) that are posted in the document what I should be using? Will the Avia DVD give me pretty much the same results?

2) When I try to set Cinemotion and DRC it will not let me into Advanced Video on Video 5 (DVD) or Video 7 (HD200). It will let me do it on Video 6 (XBOX). What am I doing wrong? Thanks so much in advance.

SCR

Re: 2) -- You cannot make Advanced Video settings if the input is receiving a Progressive signal -- either from a DVD player or from an HD broadcast. The Progressive signal overrules/disables the Advanced Video options. If you feed/send it an Interlaced DVD signal, you can access the Advanced Video options. However, after making the changes or adjustments, I don't know if they "stick" in those changed settings or if feeding it a progressive signal again overrides Advanced Video to some preset or predetermined settings or if all such settings are completely ignored when receiving a progressive signal and aren't a factor at all. That's my understanding of this. I have yet to feed my TV a progressive signal, as I have only an Interlaced DVD player and no HDTV.

Also, the MILD Picture Mode disables Advanced Video.
post #177 of 1691
<<Here is another tweak for those who want it:

Category - MID1

Item - BCOL #24

>>

You settings have made my TV better than ever! Thanks UMR.

2 questions.

What do you have your BCOL set at?

Also, if I have an Onkyo HITB 650 should I leave my 60XBR800 speakers on or set them to off?

Thanks again.
post #178 of 1691
Hi, I just purchased what I believe is the European Version of the 50XBR800 (50SX200) and would like to know if the same tweaks will work.

Thanks in advance.

Diego.
post #179 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by dickydoo
I've tried calibrating the black levels using Avia on my Sony DVP-F11 player using S-Video (the Panny RP-82 is on back order). I've already applied the GAMMA/BLK tweak in the service menu.

Using the black level screen (I don't remember what it's called -- it's the one with the black on the left half of the screen and white on the right half), I can't see any difference in black levels at all. I'm supposed to see 2 black lines moving back and forth and adjust it so one of them disappears while I can still see the other one. No matter what I do with the brightness I can't see any of the 2 lines. Anyone else have the same problem?

Using the THX Optimizer to adjust the brightness (with the screen with the varying black level boxes on the top and bottom), I'm supposed to be able to see the 7th darkest box. I can only see up to the 5th, even with brightness turned up all the way. What's wrong here? Am I doing anything wrong with my Contrast? I have that turned all the way up.

Is this a problem with the set in general, am I missing a setting, or is my set defective?

There is something really wrong. You should be able to see all black levels except maybe blacker than black if your player does not output it. I would suspect your DVD player could be miss adjusted or it is defect. These levels are visible without any service menu adjustments by using brightness and picture alone.
post #180 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Couch Patato
UMR, one other thing I forgot to ask. In 4:3 mode the verticle sides of the pic. are slightly bowed inward. I don't think thats right. I've seen most of the GW's in the showroom showing the same thing. I did see one however that was pefectly strait. I would asume that you can fix this in the service menue. Am I right? Thanks, Scott

I have found no geometry adjustments to fix this. The standard adjustments for XBR CRT screens are in the set, but they do nothing.

I have nothing to add on the whole warranty/service menu issue.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › UMR Does GWII