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UMR Does GWII - Page 4

post #91 of 1691
Thread Starter 
bsimeral,

The user menu adjustments that help the most with satellite are DRC Reality 1 and Clarity 100. The service menu adjustments that help the most with clarity are the adjustments under PIC-BOOST2, PIC-BOOST3 and the GAMM/BLK adjustment under 2170-4.

The size of the screen is itself a problem, but the low factory gamma tends to emphasize the MPEG artifacts. The other adjustments will help, but are more subtle.
post #92 of 1691
Hello everyone, newbie here so please don't mind the questions. I have been reading these forums for the past couple of weeks, and we have finally put the order in for a 50" GWII! I was just curious about the calibration dvds that I have been reading about. Is there a certain one that is recommended over the others? The other thing that I was curious about was the tweaks that UMR has so kindly shared.... are those tweaks to be done after the calibration dvd is run? Just trying to get prepared for our new GWII!! Thanks everyone!
post #93 of 1691
I have my HD TWC NYC going into input 5. My DVD is going into 6. Should I just make them match your DVI settings?

Thanks
post #94 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Bronsteen
I have my HD TWC NYC going into input 5. My DVD is going into 6. Should I just make them match your DVI settings?

Thanks

Maybe. You will need to see where the black levels and picture controls fall out. I would use the THX Optimizer or Optimode screens to help set those.
post #95 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Livo
Hello everyone, newbie here so please don't mind the questions. I have been reading these forums for the past couple of weeks, and we have finally put the order in for a 50" GWII! I was just curious about the calibration dvds that I have been reading about. Is there a certain one that is recommended over the others? The other thing that I was curious about was the tweaks that UMR has so kindly shared.... are those tweaks to be done after the calibration dvd is run? Just trying to get prepared for our new GWII!! Thanks everyone!

I prefer AVIA if you are only going to get one. The color filters included with it are necessary to set your color decoder.

The tweaks are actually intended to be done before and during your calibration. The list is in the order they are in the TV with the values I am using. Your settings may be something different in some cases (noted by using a test image).

The order I use goes something like this:

PIC-BOOST2

PIC-BOOST3 - with Avia or image similar to CNN logo

2170P-4 (GAMM/BLK)

H POS ADJ* - with THX screen alignment image
PLL-C* - with THX screen alignment image

USER Menu Settings* - with AVIA or THX Optimizer

2170P-4 (SPIC) - with THX picture/contrast display

USER Menu Settings* - with AVIA and/or THX Optimizer

2170P-4 (Color Decoder)* - with Avia
User Menu (Hue)* - with Avia (if it changes go back to color decoder)

2170P-2 (reset values)*- copy settings from User Menu into reset settings. Remember to start counting at zero.

2170P-2 (custom values) - adjust each input to the desired appearance under PRO mode with these values.

*-only for first (DVD) input. Use these values for all other inputs.
post #96 of 1691
Quote:


Originally posted by Livo
Hello everyone, newbie here so please don't mind the questions. I have been reading these forums for the past couple of weeks, and we have finally put the order in for a 50" GWII! I was just curious about the calibration dvds that I have been reading about. Is there a certain one that is recommended over the others? The other thing that I was curious about was the tweaks that UMR has so kindly shared.... are those tweaks to be done after the calibration dvd is run? Just trying to get prepared for our new GWII!! Thanks everyone!

I had/have Sound&Vision Home Theater Tune-Up ($19.95), but found AVIA (the "big brother" of the S&V one -- although S&V has DTS testings and some newer charts, apparently, per Guy Kuo who designed it) for $22.99 used and I AM GLAD I BOUGHT IT!! It has so much more re: resolution, overscan, etc., etc. The competition is Video Essentials (current version out of production while they wait to come out with their new HD version), but VE only has a blue filter, I understand. So, pay the $49.95 retail ($40 or so at Amazon) for AVIA and get it. You will want it if you want to get really technical with your TV -- lots of different patterns, IRE levels, etc. -- or maybe see if your local video store has VE or AVIA for rent and rent them both and decide for yourself.

FYI, I have an old Kodak pocket master photoguide, and it has colored red (25 (A)), green (58 (B)) and blue (47 (C5)) filters for various B&W photographic purposes -- they seem to be the same tint as the AVIA filters, but not as dense, so I don't know if they'd substitute, esp. since some of the AVIA color tests have you measure whether the primary colors on the TV are lighter or darker through the filter than your target shade.
post #97 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by eweiss
...FYI, I have an old Kodak pocket master photoguide, and it has colored red (25 (A)), green (58 (B)) and blue (47 (C5)) filters for various B&W photographic purposes -- they seem to be the same tint as the AVIA filters, but not as dense, so I don't know if they'd substitute, esp. since some of the AVIA color tests have you measure whether the primary colors on the TV are lighter or darker through the filter than your target shade.

My understanding is the correct wratten filters are 99 (green), 92 (red) and 98 (blue). I heard the Kodak green filter is better than the one supplied with AVIA.
post #98 of 1691
Well, I tweaked more last night. Didn't ever feed it 1080i during calibration, but I can tell at least some if not all of the settings I changed carried over.

My color decoder was worse off than I thought - I needed to dial both green variables down to zero to get it right. Green is still ultra vibrant at this setting - in the Sopranos HD last night the raft he was on in the pool was translucent green and it looked incredible. Red needed some tweaking to get dialed in, but now flesh tones look ultra-realistic.

I noticed when I was setting the SPIC value that it would revert back to 10 after I had increased it to 15. I committed the changes with a write - hopefully this keeps it at 15. While using the THX Optimode tests I didn't notice any discoloration of light gray - I actually wish you could go higher than 15.

I changed the gamma from 4 to 0 and tweaked the color decoder again. Also recalibrated the black and white levels with AVIA.

I think some of the weirdness in my settings has to do with my DVD player - I think it is too fancy for its own good. It has this OSD that allows for the same picture adjustments - even gamma. I used the "normal" setting on the DVD player for my calibrations, but who knows what this causes the DVD player to output.

Anyway, I can report that not only does DVD look amazing, HD is now tons better than it used to be. Last night "The Sixth Day" was on Showtime HD. I had seen it briefly in HD before and had noticed edge artifacts - something I had noticed on some other HD feeds and channels as well. The artifacts were now completely gone and the picture was nothing less than stunning. Also with the new gamma curve and enhanced contrast, the blacks were darker and not as illuminated - tons better. NYPD Blue HD looked awesome and Jay Leno took top honors. Previously, I could see edge artifacts with Leno. Last night it was so clear and sharp that I thought he was standing in front of a bluescreen - that's how defined he was from the background. I couldn't get over how perfect the image was. I can't thank umr enough for these tweaks, they have made my TV viewing experience amazing. I'll check tonight to make sure all the settings are carried over into 1080i.



Thanks,

Ron
post #99 of 1691
Umr,

I could not wait any longer and put an order for a dish 6000 model. I got the receiver yesterday. Hooked it up and activated it. I was able to watch HD discovery, SHO, & HBO for about 30 minutes before the receiver went bad. After 20 to 30 minutes of watching (after spending all the time with Dish Network advanced support to activate it and download the latest software), the receiver started outputing steady straight vertical lines through the component and s-video output. So I am getting a new receiver by tomorrow.

My question. The dish 6000 model does not have DVI just component. Should I use the same component tweaks that you used or should I play with it until I am satisfied with it. I connected it to video 5 input and the HD looked excellent. I did not have a lot of time to play with the SD signal from the receiver. I have heard that the receiver upscale the SD signal to 1080i as well (I do not know if this correct) but it seems to have a better image than my 721 PVR dish unit. I will check again tomorrow again when I get the new one.
post #100 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by motjes2
Umr,

I could not wait any longer and put an order for a dish 6000 model. I got the receiver yesterday. Hooked it up and activated it. I was able to watch HD discovery, SHO, & HBO for about 30 minutes before the receiver went bad. After 20 to 30 minutes of watching (after spending all the time with Dish Network advanced support to activate it and download the latest software), the receiver started outputing steady straight vertical lines through the component and s-video output. So I am getting a new receiver by tomorrow.

My question. The dish 6000 model does not have DVI just component. Should I use the same component tweaks that you used or should I play with it until I am satisfied with it. I connected it to video 5 input and the HD looked excellent. I did not have a lot of time to play with the SD signal from the receiver. I have heard that the receiver upscale the SD signal to 1080i as well (I do not know if this correct) but it seems to have a better image than my 721 PVR dish unit. I will check again tomorrow again when I get the new one.

I do not have a 6000, but I would guess that the component input tweaks for my DVP-S7000 should be close to right for the 6000.
post #101 of 1691
Finally! I got HD signal from Dish. The only thing I can say is WOW!!! I will posts some pics (in another thread) when I get a digital camera.
post #102 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Here is some new information for the brave at heart:

I have been playing with adjusting the white balance on my set and am finally happy with the results. You may find the colors/blacks more accurate after doing this.

I adjusted items under 2170P-1 to do this. The items were GDRV, BDRV, BCUT. The final values for these are GDRV=44 from 48, BDRV=39 from 48, BCUT=22 from 23. This also resulted in a small change in the user menu color to UCOL=27 from 25. A color decoder value also changed GYR=7 from 6.

The method I used follows:

1. Place a bright gray window (70-90 IRE) on the screen from AVIA or VE.
2. Go to category 2170P-2 and item RGBS and set the value to 6 (turns off blue)
3. Adjust GDRV until the window looks pure yellow (not green or red tinted).
I record the values where it looks slightly green and red and then try the values near the middle of those.
4. Place a grayscale ramp (100-0 IRE) on the screen.
5. Adjust GCUT and/or RCUT if you see a problem with low IRE yellows. This is difficult to judge.
6. Go back to step one if you changed GCUT or RCUT.
7. Go to category 2170P-2 and item RGBS and set the value to 7 (all panels on)
8. Change the gray window to a value of around 70-50 IRE.
Do not use an IRE value less than 30 because of probable problems with the panels not tracking well at low levels.
9. Set BDRV to zero and then increase BDRV until the screen just looks gray and stop.
I use a photographic gray card with either indirect outside lighting or a 6500K light source to judge this.
Be very careful not to make the grays overly blue.
Many people think 6500k grays are slightly sepia toned.
10. Place a grayscale ramp (100-0 IRE) on the screen.
11. Adjust BCUT if you see a problem with low IRE grays.
12. Go back to step 8 if you changed BCUT
13. Readjust the color decoder if you have done this previously.
14. Write the results to memory and copy to other inputs if you like the results if not just change
the input and everything will go back to normal.

Edited to include changes from being able to turn off blue LCD panel.
post #103 of 1691
Just when I thought I'd finished!! Good work my friend, good work.


Ron
post #104 of 1691
Thread Starter 
UUronl,

This was not a minor change in the picture. The amount of blue was dropped dramatically and the reduction in green is noticable also.
post #105 of 1691
umr, and other gw II tweakers. How much time should someone reserve to implement all of these tweaks? Add in some have never snooped around in the sm.
post #106 of 1691
I changed the chroma delay, gama and "smart peaking" settings last night. Took me around 10 minutes.
post #107 of 1691
Thread Starter 
strike,

I am probably the wrong person to ask since I have spent several hours trying to figure this thing out. I would guess it could all be done in 20 to 30 minutes if you don't have many inputs with different resolutions.
post #108 of 1691
Umr revised the PDF file. I delete it from page 4 see below...
post #109 of 1691
The date on the pdf when viewed is 12-10-02 9:39am. Is this the updated pdf or is AVS having the same problem accepting the new replacement file?\\
Thanks for all you guys efforts!!!
Pete in Louisina
post #110 of 1691
Thread Starter 
I don't know how you are seeing that date. However, if the file has the recommended procedure for implementing the tweaks at the beginning it is the new file.

The link also works from the first post I made as well.
post #111 of 1691
Here it is....

(see page 7 for another update 12/18/2002)

1/29/03: Latest revision is on Page 15...

1/31/03: From now on the File is called "GWXBR Tweaks". The current version is 4.0 and it is posted on page 16 of this thread.
post #112 of 1691
That works. For some reason the original did not update from page 4. I was refering to the date that shows on the pdf pages. Again - THANKS.
Pete in Louisiana
post #113 of 1691
Thanks much umr and motjes2. i bought the GW 50" totally unseen, and it definitely needed the tweaking. Will have to find a copy of Avia, hopefully for rent somewhere, as the latest massaging of the unit has made a couple of my most watched channels glow. Like a person's skin is kinda hot, or something. Other stations, not so bad. Episode ii looks pretty damned amazing, though. Can't wait to get a Hi-Def signal on this baby
post #114 of 1691
Oops. i think my isp was acting up. Sorry for the multiples.
post #115 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Here's a new one I have been looking for and finally found. You can turn off panels individually. This allows you to avoid the problems with inaccuracies in the color filters supplied with AVIA and improves on the grayscale adjustment procedure where you are trying to shutdown the blue.

The only hitch appears to be that settings 3-1 appear to have some sort of bias to the signals going to the panels. The blacks on my borders are lighter in those modes than the others. However, it does not appear to change the decoder settings because blue was dead on and I believe that filter is very good.

Category: 2170P-2
Item: RGBS #12

7=All on (Normal)
6=Blue off (Great for the grayscale adjustment in our pdf)
5=Green off
4=Red only (Use instead of red filter for color decoder)
3=Red off
2=Green only (Use instead of green filter for color decoder)
1=Blue only (Use instead of blue filter for color decoder)
0=All off

We'll need to update the pdf again with this new item and improvements to the procedure by using these.
post #116 of 1691
I have spent a lot of time with my set. I keep tinkering, and each time I feel a lot better about the settings. I think part of it is probably due to the lamp maturing, part is due to my unfamiliarity with AVIA, and lastly my tendency to tweak.

I found that the color decoder test in Avia got me close, but the individual color saturation tests helped me dial it in dead on. Just like the blue saturation test, there is a red and green saturation test. Once I used these tests, my color improved dramatically. I'll try the latest tweak just to make sure I have everything optimized.



Thanks,

Ron
post #117 of 1691
umr,
Great job continuing to tweak this set and passing your knowledge on to others that are interested.
post #118 of 1691
Thread Starter 
UUronl,

Being able to turn the panels on and off is a great aid in setting the color decoder accurately. The filters supplied with AVIA are not perfect because of leakage from the other colors. It is also nice to not have to hold a little filter over your eyes.
post #119 of 1691
I'm still trying to decide on what TV to purchase, the GWII is included on the short list. A question for y'all that tweaked the GWII:

How much of a difference do the Umr changes make? Is it "things look just a little better", or more like "wow! this is an entirely different picture"? Or maybe somewhere in between? I realize this is subjective, but some idea of what's possible with this set would be appreciated.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the 'original' GWII in the store and wonder how much its weaknesses can be improved. In particular that means the black levels, and 'impact' the image makes (which probably has a lot to do with contrast and thus black levels).

- Rob -
post #120 of 1691
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Rop
I'm still trying to decide on what TV to purchase, the GWII is included on the short list. A question for y'all that tweaked the GWII:

How much of a difference do the Umr changes make? Is it "things look just a little better", or more like "wow! this is an entirely different picture"? Or maybe somewhere in between? I realize this is subjective, but some idea of what's possible with this set would be appreciated.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the 'original' GWII in the store and wonder how much its weaknesses can be improved. In particular that means the black levels, and 'impact' the image makes (which probably has a lot to do with contrast and thus black levels).

- Rob -

Everyone please comment because I have spent so much time with this it is hard to remember what it looked like before.

Here is my two cents though:

- Improvement in detail on component inputs with high quality sources is probably a wow level improvement.
- Improvement in detail on s-video or low quality sources is probably in the little better category.
- Improvement in detail on DVI input is zero.
- Improvement on black levels is some where between a wow and a little level of improvement on all inputs.
- Improvement in usability of set from different levels for different inputs is for me a wow level of improvement.
- Improvement in color accuracy is probably between a little and a wow level for all inputs.
- Improvement in geometry was a little level of improvement.
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