Monterey, CA - HDTV - Page 5

KION broadcasts from a different tower than all the other locals. The KION tower is southeast from Monterey. The others broadcast from a tower which is to the northeast.

For more info on local reception, there are a couple of posts in this thread which may help. In particular you may want to take a look at my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8314481

I'm next to Laguna Seca but a lot of the info may apply to your location as well...

Now and then, KION goes off the air and at other times it showed up at 46-2 instead of 46-1. Now that the CW is on 46-2, KION is only available on 46-1.

While I do not live in your neighborhood I can verify that KION DT at 46-1 is on this air as of 3:50 PM local time on Thursday. I am getting a solid 90% signal from my location off Boots Road 1 mile from Hwy 68. KSBW and KCBA are also coming in but at a much lower 70% signal strength.

I use a plain old Silver Sensor for my OTA signal.

Dave

Ive been trying other antennas I have laying around and today I actually got KION and CW. So at least I know they work. But now KCBA doesnt want to come in today... some mighty finicky reception here. Then again my cell phone signal strength here isnt all that great either. But take a little walk down the street and all is good. Perhaps I have some kind of metal meteor buried under the house ;o)

Watched a college game for a few on KION and it looked quite nice, although the signal wasnt clean and had occational problems (hovered around 70% strength). Hopefully my TV will be arriving within the next 2-3 days. I have read here and there that built-in HDTV can sometimes do a better job of handling over-the-air than cable/satellite receivers do. I will be putting that to the test.

Otherwise... I didnt really think about local digital TV except via cable or dish because other than KSBW I didnt think they were broadcast here yet. So getting this to work is more of a welcome bonus to something that I already enjoy.

As many of you know, I maintain a list of the digital stations within 100 miles of San Francisco on my web site (http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html) showing lots of information about each station... callsign, channel info, network, transmitter location, etc.

Since I'm located in San Francisco and I can't receive any of the stations transmitting from your area, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who finds any errors or missing information in that list. If a channel adds a sub-channel, changes network or programming service, or does anything else that should be noted on the list, I'd appreciate hearing from you. I want to keep the list as accurate and current as possible, so your input is most welcome.

I read that CW is on 46-2 now. Is there a separate station on that channel, or just the CW programming from 8 to 10 pm? What's on there at other hours?

Are there any digital stations in the Salinas-Monterey area that are on the air but not listed?

It's information like that I would appreciate hearing about.

Since I have an email spam filter, please use my mail form to contact me: http://www.choisser.com/larry/mail/

Thanks.

Larry
SF

Anyone in Santa Cruz County (Aptos) with good OTA. I have Comcast-thinking of dumping it. I have an HDTV monitor so would need to pick up an OTA receiver. Before doing so I am intersted in hearing from anyone who is in this area?

Hi, I just recently stopped getting cable, I still want to get the local channels for news and such.

I have been researching HDTV antennas and there is much out there and much confusion. I need to use an indoor antenna due to my circumstances where I live. I don't have an HDTV, just want to get the signals and if they change to HD only I want to still pick them up.

I am in the Seabright/Broadway area of Santa Cruz. Does anyone have a recommendation as to which indoor antenna to get?

TIA

I'm also in Aptos (near Sumner) and am on the hunt for a tried and true OTA Antenna to hook in to my Sony SXRD A2000. Currently have Dish with the locals in SD. Would love to experiment with an attic antenna but am not opposed to mounting one on my roof (or on the dish) if it means getting better reception all around. According to antennaweb I am 25.2 miles away from the towers and need a small multi-directional. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

The digital stations down your way transmit from Fremont Peak, which is northeast of Salinas near San Juan Batista, and Mt. Toro, which is directly south of Salinas. I can't give an answer on coverage in Santa Cruz because I live in San Francisco, but it doesn't look promising with an indoor antenna. The reason I'm responding is because of your next comment:

To receive HD or digital signals you will need a digital receiver. An old analog TV tuner will not pick up the digital stations.

There's no such thing as "an HDTV antenna". Any antenna that's made for TV will work for HD, but it needs to be outside and up on the roof to work right... and the further you are from the transmitters the better that antenna has to be.

Larry
SF

Hi emsteff, I am new to the OTA world but I am thinking of starting cheap/easy (indoor) with the antenna and then workng my way up to bigger (roof mounted) as/if needed (and wife permitting).

I called Dish last night to ask about locals package (Salines/Monterey) but he confused me. Do you have HD? (I'm dont know my Sony well). What Locals do you get in SD? What is your overall impression of Dish?

THanks

Thank you for the information. I have been hearing that at some point stations will only broadcast digital signals and that I would have to get a set top box to translate the signals to the analog TV.

I have also heard about a device that an antenna gets attached to that would connect to my computer (I have an iMac) via USB. (there is a story at ABC news about an Artec Digital TV tuner) It looks like I could get digital signals that way. I have a digital bridge (Pyro) that goes both ways, analog to digital and digital to analog. Of course I could upgrade my TV to digital, but I am finding with my nice 20" screen on the iMac I am watching video, podcasts and DVDs on my computer!

Thanks so much for your feedback, the technology for OTA TV is very confusing with many different claims and experiences, I appreciate the guidance!

I just got rid of Dish Network. Nothing wrong with the service, I just wasn't watching it enough to justify the expense (watch TV at the BF's house mostly). They do have a HD package and it does include a couple local HD channels. I believe it is NBC and CBS (channels 8 and 46) I can't remember if Fox is HD. We don't get a local ABC channel (a very weird thing, used to be one in San Jose then they changed to NBC) The ABC station I was getting was from L.A.

They have other HD channels, like Discovery. My boyfriend was looking into it as he has Comcast and isn't happy with what they offer and was thinking of switching to Dish. Dish does have a better package, but like me he is tired of paying so much money and hardly watching it.

GBruno, the locals I get off Dish are from Monterey and are NBC, CBS, Fox, and a few Spanish channels. The locals I get through Dish are in Standard Def only and look so so on the Sony sxrd. I have to say though that getting local channels in SD for $5 or $6 over Dish is my only gripe. I've had Dish for 2 weeks now and the HD channels have exceeded my expectations. I have the Bronze HD package and I believe we get around 26 HD channels. Overall it provides a nice balance of programming for my wife and I. The local SD's for $5.99 have got to go though. Let me know if you have any luck with an OTA. I might purchase one from Radio Shack in the next few weeks and try it out.

You're right about the analog cutoff, Gigi. All analog stations will go off the air by February 17, 2009, so we still have a couple of years to go before it happens. After that all TV stations will be digital only. Those that still have analog TVs will have to get a digital receiver-converter box to get OTA signals or have satellite or cable.

For those interested in what the new line up will be after the end of analog, you can check out my web site:
http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Below the list of present day channels you'll find a list showing "The TV dial after analog shutdown". You'll note that some channels like KSBW, KGO, KICU and KXTV will be moving their digital operation to their present analog channel when the change over occurs.

You're also correct about digital tuners for computers. Several are available for both the Mac and PC. I have the MyHD card (which is for a PC) in this computer and it works great. You can receive both OTA and cable channels with it, and record and playback HD and SD programming. Be aware that HD files take up a lot of disk space. One hour of HD takes up about 8.5 Gigabytes, so you need a big hard drive on your computer if you plan to do much recording.

I'm not sure what's available for the Mac, but there's a separate section here on the AVS Forum for Home Theater Computers and you'll find lots of information there.

GBruno... I have Dish Network and have been very happy with their service. They offer 26 national HD channels, like Discovery, TNT, ESPN, HDNet, Food Channel, HGTV, Rave, HDNews, etc. and here in San Francisco I get four local HD channels - KGO, KPIX, KNTV and KTVU. I don't think they offer any HD locals in the Monterey-Salinas market yet. They offer six local SD channels in your area: 8, 25, 35, 43, 46, and 67. Their ViP-622 DVR is very good, too. I pay $67 a month for the Dish Bronze HD package that includes the 30 HD stations and about 80 SD stations and the DVR service. They offer more expensive packages that include more HD, like HBO, Showtime, Stars, etc. and more SD channels. Their HD pictures look really good!

Larry
SF

For analog signals you can get an antenna from Radio Shack.
I used one for many years (I live just off seabright).
But it won't provide really good quality all the time. Even at its best, it
isn't much better than OK. When I got an HDTV I had to put up
an outdoor antenna.

Thanks everyone. I have ordered a Samsung DTB. If I can reliably get OTA NBC/CBS/FOX in HD from Aptos then I will dump Comcast (only 6 HD channels) and go with DISH. Bummer is I most likely will not have even ABC SD.

We can send a man to the moon...

thanks again, Greg

Thanks for the info. I think I will just go with this for now. I hardly watch TV at home, but there are nights I do and this is an acceptable choice for now as it is inexpensive. I mostly watch "House" and "ER" and wouldn't want to miss then as the newer eps aren't at NetFlix yet.

I have been enjoying the amazing amount of stuff available in Podcast form too!

Larry, I found something called "EyeTV" for the Mac. It comes with capture software that records it to MP4 so that it is compressed. It works off antenna or off a cable feed to turn the computer into a TiVo like DVR/Recording device (it has a program guide with the software package). There are versions of this type of device for Windows too.

A lot will change in the two years before all analog is gone I am sure. I was just panicked a little because my boyfriend thought it was changing next March. I think it is great that there are alternatives to cable and dish and paying them to get local channels. There is time to see what will come on the market, this is actually exciting although it is quite confusing. I am grateful to have found this forum and thanks so much for the advice and for sharing experiences!

Great forum... I'm glad to see all the great post!

Larry, you might have to help me with my wording...?

For the Monterey/Santa Cruz market you'll need an antenna with both VHF and UHF.

NBC - VHF 8.1 on channel 10.
Fox - VHF 35.1 on channel 13.
CBS - UHF 46.1 and 46.2 on channel 32.
PBS - UHF 25.1 on channel 58.

As you see our channels range from 10 - 58 a wide range. You'll also want an antenna that kinda directional cause all towers are at a southwest direction from Santa Cruz.

I live in Prunedale and the towers are 15 - 20 miles from here. You'll need at least a medium, if not large, size antenna for the distance of 30 to 40 miles from Santa Cruz.

I hope this gets you started... another option... try a large antenna and try to get to SF's tower on Sutro Mt... there you'll get ABC and alot more!

Good luck,

Chad...

P.S. I'd stay away from RS's antenna stuff. You can do alot better online. Check SolidSignal for starters.

PGDave, let me know what you think my chances are of getting signals from Mt. Sutro. I live near Sumner and Clubhouse Dr in Aptos and have a pretty clear view up the coast. When I map it on Google Earth it looks to be about 64 miles. What do you think, should I give it a shot with the X91 or is there a better antenna on the market now? Also, should I use a preamp like the cm 7777 you have?

Thanks for your great posts. You definitely have me intrigued with the possibilities!

I know of viewers in both Santa Cruz and Pacific Grove who are able to get several of the stations from Sutro Tower in San Francisco, but they're not far from the ocean and I suspect the signals are coming over the water. I don't know what the chances are for Aptos, but I don't think reception is totally out of the question.

I put Aptos 95003 into antennaweb.org, the site recommended as best for determining what stations you can get. It didn't show any digital stations from San Francisco, but it did show KTVU analog channel 2 from Sutro and KNTV channel 11 from Mount San Bruno just four miles away. Antennaweb is noted for being stingy on it's recommendations and many viewers have been able to get stations they don't list.

Seeing that channel 2 from Sutro IS listed, you might have a chance with the X91 and CM7777. There's no way to be sure though until you try.

I'm copying the list I received from antennaweb for your information.

Good luck!

Larry
SF

- - - - - -

AntennaType Call Sign Channel Network City State CompassOrientation Mil es From FrequencyAssignment
yellow - uhf KION 46 CBS MONTEREY CA 139° 33.7 46
* yellow - uhf KSMS-DT 31.1 UNI MONTEREY CA 38° 9.0 31
yellow - uhf KKPX 65 i SAN JOSE CA 1° 10.1 65
* green - uhf KION-DT 46.1 CBS MONTEREY CA 139° 33.7 32
green - uhf KTEH1 54 PBS SANTA CRUZ CA 0° 10.0 54
lt green - uhf K53DT 53 TBN MONTEREY CA 154° 29.5 53
red - vhf KSBW 8 NBC SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 8
* red - vhf KSBW-DT 8.1 NBC SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 10
red - uhf KCBA 35 FOX SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 35
* red - vhf KCBA-DT 35.1 FOX SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 13
blue - uhf KMCE-LP 43 AZA SAN MARTIN, ETC. CA 110° 26.2 43
blue - uhf KCAH 25 PBS WATSONVILLE CA 110° 26.2 25
blue - uhf K56AA 56 PBS SALINAS CA 139° 33.3 56
blue - uhf KMUV-LP 23 UNI MONTEREY CA 110° 26.2 23
blue - uhf KSMS 67 UNI MONTEREY CA 110° 26.2 67
blue - uhf KDJT-CA 33 TFA SALINAS-MONTEREY, ET CA 42° 8.8 33
* violet - uhf KCAH-DT 25.1 PBS Watsonville CA 110° 26.2 58
violet - vhf KNTV 11 NBC SAN JOSE CA 314° 57.7 11
violet - vhf KTVU 2 FOX OAKLAND CA 316° 62.3 2
Note:
The above listing is a conservative prediction of stations received. Depending on the specifics of your installation, you may be able to receive stations that do not appear in this list.

As Larry says, the only way to know for sure is to try. I think the mountains may be too close to you and block the signal from Sutro. But you are 20 miles closer than I am so that may make a difference. You will definately need the CM 7777 and I don't know of a better antenna than the XG91. You will also need a rotor.

The most reliable signals I receive from Sutro are: 5, 7, 9 and 38.

Good luck!

Thanks guys. I'll give it the old college try. I'll give you an update around mid Jan next year.

We just moved from Santa Cruz (off of 7th by the Harbor) to a home in the Vineyards in Scotts Valley...

In SC, I got all the Salinas/Monterey channels via my HD OTA Antenna provided by DirecTV (Flat round saucer about 18" across) and all was happy... since moving to SV I can't get SQUAT over the air with that same antenna...

Has anyone had any luck with any OTA HD Antenna in the Scotts Valley Area?

Thanks in Advance!
SW2

I realise that some UHF antenna designs have a reasonable gain for the high VHF channels. Now Fremont Peak is 25 miles away at 129 degrees and Mt. Toro is 34 miles away at 157 degrees. With the prospect of KSBW 10.1 reverting to 8.1 in 2009 what would be the best options for antenna selection? Single UHF Bow-tie or Yagi?
UHF/VHF yagi? I'm a couple of hundred feet higher than the coastal plain and can mount antennae on a roof 50 feet above the ground.
I'm a newbie here so I'd appreciate a patient response. When I can help someone else, I will

Thanks in advance

I would definitely get a VHF/UHF combination antenna since you'll need VHF for KSBW and KCBA and UHF for the other stations. Most UHF antennas don't work at all for VHF and the CM4228 is only good at the high end of VHF, and it doesn't have much gain there. I doubt you'd get channel 8 with it... 10 and 13, maybe.

Since the two transmit locations are separated by 28 degrees you might need a rotor, too. Most antennas don't have that wide a beam, so trying to find a spot where you can pick up stations from both places probably won't work. You might try an omni directional antenna with some gain and see if that would work, but in hilly areas the multipath often causes too much interference with an omni directional.

You'll probably have to try different things to see what works best.

Larry
SF

Larry, thanks for the advice.
What's clear is that I'll have to experiment step-by-step.
I use the DVR on my vip622 a lot, so a rotator doesn't appeal.
Looks like I could avoid that since all the VHF channels are on Fremont Peak and the UHF channels on Mt. Toro, about 30 degrees apart.
Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. Next job is to get on the roof with a simple dipole and a small portable TV to check the potential problems by focussing on Channel 8 analog first. That should help me discern what the VHF portion of my antenna solution needs to be like.
I do have hills around me, but I'm at 400 feet and Fremont Peak is about 3000 feet, so I'm optimistic about VHF at least.
By the way, Google Earth is a fun toy to figure out the line-of-sight possibilities.

If I learn something of interest to others locals, I'll let you know

I have the 622 and love it! You're right, you don't want a rotor when you're going to record programs from stations in both directions without manual intervention.

Here's a combination that should work for you. Get a VHF-UHF combo antenna for Fremont Peak, because there are two UHF stations there (25 and 31) besides NBC and FOX, and a UHF antenna for Mt. Toro and connect them together with a Channel Master Jointenna tuned for channel 32. They come in single channel models. You can get a Jointenna at Schad Electronic Supply in San Jose - 800 262-1130. You connect the VHF-UHF as the main antenna and connect the UHF antenna as the single channel antenna. You should get good results with that set up.

Larry

Yet another good suggestion to ponder!
I'm in search of HD "locals" material (vip622 got me hooked on national HD) and neither of the UHF transmitters at Fremont Peak offers anything at the moment.
The NBC and FOX local stations are both on VHF.
Even after tweaking the insanely conservative Antennaweb listing for my location, it still doesn't show ANYTHING from the UHF stations on channel 32 at Mt. Toro.
It does suggest red/blue solutions for VHF at Fremont Pk., which implies the need for a mast-head pre-amp (CM7777 ? )
Hopefully I can optimize for hi-band VHF right away (Winegard YA-1713 ?) while I figure out what to do about the "missing" ch. 32.
The story continues.......

For some unknown reason, antennaweb lists the KION analog channel 46 but does not list digital ch 32 (KION-DT). KION-DT is in fact broadcasting 2 digital subchannels on ch 32 - subchannel 1 is the KION CBS affiliate, while subchannel 2 is "The CW" network. Antennaweb does list a location for the analog ch 46, which is the same transmitter location as digital ch 32.


Test reception without the preamp first, to get an idea of baseline signal strength. It's very possible that you won't need one. Installing a preamp when you have a good baseline signal will not necessarily improve reception - in fact it can over amplify the signal which can lead to no reception whatsoever.


IMHO, don't worry about UHF channels 25 and 31. Channel 25 (KCAH PBS) does not broadcast any HD content and it doesn't seem likely this will change in the near future. It also has a very low power signal which may be difficult to receive. I'm in Monterey, 23 miles away, and I can't pickup a useable signal on ch 25.

Channel 31 is Univision, so unless you care about Spanish language programs there's no need to bother. Since your handle implies you are British, you may be a football (soccer) fan, and I think that Univision may broadcast some games, I'm not sure.

If you eliminate 25 and 31, then you don't need to worry about UHF from Fremont peak and can concentrate on UHF from Mt. Toro.

It's very ironic that I can get the only Monterey station KSBW out in the Cental Valley both in analog and digital. However I think that in 2009, KSBW's signal may be reduced so which means that I can't get the station anymore by then I think?

Many stations who broadcast analog on VHF have selected a UHF channel for digital. The theory is that once analog shutdown occurs, they will move the digital broadcasts to their VHF channel. Since VHF channels are typically broadcast at lower power than UHF, it is possible that some people who previously were able to receive the digital broadcasts on UHF will no longer be able to receive them once they are moved to the VHF channel. Also in some cases folks who only have a UHF antenna with low VHF gain will be forced to install a new antenna.

In KSBW's case, analog is broadcast on ch 8 and digital is on ch 10. They will likely move the digital to ch 8 at the time of analog shutdown. Since ch 8 and ch 10 are both VHF, the scenario I describe above will not apply to KSBW.

If you are receiving both ch 8 and 10 now, this would seem to imply you will be able to receive digital on ch 8 when analog is shutdown. The only issue would be if the gain on your antenna for channel 8 is significantly lower than the gain for channel 10 AND the strength of the station's digital transmission was lower than the analog transmission. If BOTH of these conditions occur, the resulting loss of gain might be enough to drop below the threshold sensitivity of your OTA tuner. But this doesn't seem likely to me, particularly if you have relatively strong signals now.

IMHO, if you are receiving KSBW-DT now, you should be able to receive it once analog shutdown occurs.