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X1 and Z1 Side-By-Side Review (Long) - Page 2  

post #31 of 98
Great review. I ordered an X1 on 12/26 and received on 12/27/02. At that time I also had a Sony 1020 CRT. It was a 5.5" model that didn't scan high enough to line double. It was in incredible condition and at 10' produced a great 80" wide picture. The X1 is much better. I know that I really need to compare it a 7 or 8" CRT but I am very happy with mine and I have no buyer's remorse at all. I never looked at the Z1 but always wondered what the diff was. If I had bought a $10,000 Marantz or $16,000 Runco, I'd still be kicking myself. They're not 10-times better.
post #32 of 98
Well done Flooper. Your review echo's my in store demo of these two units which I posted recently.

Another consideration between these two units is cost. The X1 is just over $1K cheaper in Australian dollars. The price difference maybe negligible in the US. Both units are excellent machines.
post #33 of 98
Thanks for the great review, Flooper....exactly what I was looking for.

One question: The X1 was louder than the Z1, right?

Dave

PS. For those in Canada, the Sanyo Canada website notes only a ONE year parts and labour warranty on the Z1, excluding the lamp....which I believe is 90 days or so. Other Sanyo models have THREE year warranties. :(
post #34 of 98
Hey Nickoff, similar situation here in Hobart... that's why I'll be buying my PJ in the US!!

Chaz.
post #35 of 98
I was able to compare the X1 with the Z1 for two times now (the last time on Saturday, as two of my friends ordered the InFocus X1 from a dealer). I think that both are excellent "entry" projectors, but I prefer the X1 for some reasons. Most of them have been stated (for example more natural colors), but a very good argument for the X1 is the much more reliable DLP technology.

The Z1 showed a very inhomogeneous dark picture, with different colors in every border. This is a common LCD problem, very disturbing. And the LCD dead pixel danger is a second good argument for a DLP projector.

Stefan
post #36 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by chingko
Mike,
Great review! I'm concluding from your followup posts that both are table mounted. How far are the 2 pjs from the screen? and also distance from the floor (which would be height of table I guess)?
Thanks,
Ben
Ben,
Yep, I had them on a long coffee table. (I have since ceiling mounted the X1 downstairs, and am going to use the Z1 upstairs on the coffee table--WAF) I think the Z1 was about 11 or 12 feet from the screen, and the X1 was about 13 or 14. I didn't really measure. Coffee table was about 15 inches high. X1 has a longer throw distance for sure, and needs to be lower.
post #37 of 98
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by DavidY
[b]

One question: The X1 was louder than the Z1, right?

X1 was slightly louder than Z1 in low power mode
Z1 in regular mode was slightly louder than X1.

Neither was very loud or intrusive.
post #38 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gregg Brent
Mike.. thanks for side by side comparisons...
Two questions:
Did you test any non-anamorphic letterboxed movies? and in different aspect ratios? (like from vhs, or laser or dvd)
I was curious is the Z1 displayed these smaller with the letterbox.

Second question is did you have to connect three different cables to each unit? (component, svideo and compostie?)

thanks again

Gregg,
We did watch some non-anamorphic stuff very briefly (nobody really liked the picture, so I didn't show much) from my S-VHS player, and as you would expect, the Z1 letterboxes the material within a 4:3 window. But, it also has a nice zoom feature. You can stretch to fill the whole 16:9 frame or you can zoom in on the picture. You lose a lot of pq with the zoom, but it's alright for cartoons, etc.

I did not try a composite connection. I ran an s-video and component cables to each pj.
post #39 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mash
I read Gowgow's post that was linked above. He made a CRITICAL point. You simply cannot compare two projectors that have not been calibrated properly under the same conditions. Different adjustments change the picture quality dramitically. A lot of people walked away from the Seattle shootout very convinced on which projectors were better, but some of the results and variations were probably more due to the inconsistent setting up of the projectors, than actual differences in picture quality.
Mash,
I did my best to make sure both pjs were set up under the same conditions--I used Avia to setup both, used the same screen in the same room, and had the pictures the same size, and used a video distribution amp to send them the same signal from my Panny RP62.

mike
post #40 of 98
Great Post.

Thank you so much.

I guess it still comes down to Rainbows vs. Missing or stuck pixels not covered under warranty.
post #41 of 98
Good review! Hopefully all those fence sitters can finally take the leap and just pick one! ;)

I felt basically the same way after seeing all the projectors at the shootout. You can pay more money for higher resolution and in the case of the Sharp M20x a faster color wheel to reduce the possibility of rainbows, but they all looked great.

I'd say between the X1 and Z1 the main deciding factors should be 16:9 vs 4:3 and how your room is set up. I had a little trouble getting the X1 positioned where I want it and I have to use the keystone adjustment a little bit (not that I can tell the difference in picture quality). The Z1 would probably have been simpler to set up in my room, but after a couple of weeks of fidgeting with it I think I finally got the X1 exactly how I want it...until I change my mind :D I encourage anybody who is shopping to go to projector central and use their throw distance calculator. With picture quality being so similar the little things become more important.
post #42 of 98
Flooper deee Dooooper

an informative post......


Did you do the upgrade to the X1 yet?.... v 2.9... some of my customers that have updated are stating that the X1 is more amazing than pre update.

Roto...

We built a mount for an X1...... it works great ...... I have pics ..... very easy to adjust...will provide posts with pics after next week.
post #43 of 98
Interesting..

I thought the update simply made cosmetic changes (ie. provided support for other languages) so I've been putting off any updates. Mandarax do you know what the specific image enhancing updates may be?

Is it worth the effort to do the update?
post #44 of 98
Quote:
Originally posted by mac2047
Great job. I had been waiting for this comparison for the whole weekend. Kept checking AVS site Saturday and Sunday. I wish there would be comparison between HS10 and AE300 side by side like this comparison. Job well done.

Mac
www.projectorcentral.com
post #45 of 98
It's probably my imagination, but it seems to me the picture is sharper and the colours more vivid after the update...
post #46 of 98
i hook my X1 to a standard def tv. before the v2.9 upgrade, i had the overscan turn on to get rid of the jaggies on the screen's edge. after the upgrade, the jaggies are gone when i have the overscan turn off.
post #47 of 98
Hey sunshine, is the Native aspect ratio changed any with the upgrade?

patrick
post #48 of 98
rgs:

Yes, I too think my image has improved in some way since going from 2.3 -> 2.9. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it is like the image is even smoother than it used to be!

I had previously noticed that with 2.3 my PAL S-Video source from my Sky Digital satelite TV decoder used to have like a vertical pixel jump every second or so. It's a bit hard to describe. I just put this down to some issue with the decoders output signal.
I couldn't perceive this on normal TV viewing, but when I displayed the on-screen TV Guide channel (which is all text), I could clearly see the brief "pixel jump" in the characters on a regular interval.
After my 2.9 upgrade this quirk has gone for good! ;)

I really do wish InFocus would publish a full list of changes that occurred between the versions!

Bottom line, is I recommend a 2.9 upgrade for everyone.

PS: After reading the thread about AE300 "scanline artifacts" and seeing the images someone posted, I'm now even happier with my X1. You never see anything like that on an X1. X1 owners wouldn't even know what a scan line is! ;)

Greg
post #49 of 98
Austin ...

Seems to me that the least of the updates were the ones that were posted. In all there were about 12 updates...... but do not have specific data on what the upgrades are as they were not published.

The warmest setting is now correct... the cool and warm are still mixed up. Some of my more recent customers all swear that the pic is much improved. So just do the update..... nothing to lose.
post #50 of 98
Flooper,

Tremendous review. That was a great public service. :D

I notice you still have the High Power screen. Judging from the review, you're still happy with how well the X1's blacks hold up? Can you estimate the gain you're getting with your current setup?

I was surprised that the Z1's blacks also fared well on that screen. I haven't seen *anyone* recommend a High Power with an LCD. Very interesting.
post #51 of 98
One question, maybe dumb:

is the 'USB-A to USB-B' cable that Infocus recommends for the upgrade the same as the one which is supplied for hooking it up to a PC for mouse control or is a different, special one?

Thanks

MV
post #52 of 98
Which is better for HTPC and why? I will be using it regularly as the monitor for my computer. I also would watch DVD and hopefully HDTV if I find a computer tuner card.
post #53 of 98
Quote:
Originally posted by patrick21
Hey sunshine, is the Native aspect ratio changed any with the upgrade?


patrick
patrick,
i am not sure what the behavior before upgrade. last night i gave it a try anyway.
For 16:9 Source and Widescreen on DVD Player, Native Mode in X1 gives smaller size than in 16:9 Mode.
For 4:3 Source and Widescreen on DVD Player, Native Mode in X1 gives smaller size than in 4:3 Mode.
Both 16:9 source and 4:3 source in Native Mode are in the same height.

luki
post #54 of 98
Whuuuh? What the heck /is/ Native mode then? That doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone clarify?
post #55 of 98
I think I'm confused by this Native mode discussion as well- but even then I'm not sure!

Simply put, when my X1 and 4:3 HCMW screen arrives I plan to watch reg. STB in 4:3 and HD and widescreen DVDs in 16:9 "inside" the 4:3 screen with masking. The STB would be set to output 4:3and DVD player would be set to output 16:9 and the X1 if it has a similar choice would be left at 4:3, no? What am I missing?
post #56 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino
Flooper,



I notice you still have the High Power screen. Judging from the review, you're still happy with how well the X1's blacks hold up? Can you estimate the gain you're getting with your current setup?

I was surprised that the Z1's blacks also fared well on that screen. I haven't seen *anyone* recommend a High Power with an LCD. Very interesting.
Neutrino,
Bill Cushman--a pj guru and ISF technician--always recommended a HiPower for the Sony 400Q, which is a 400 lumens, 400:1 contrast ratio lcd. I found the HiPower is a good match for the Z1--the blacks held up very well to my eyes, and the whole picture had a nice "pop" to it. With the setup I had, both pjs were coffee table mounted, and that would have given a pretty high gain for the HiPower, probably pretty close to 2.5 or better. If you want to read more about Bill Cushman's HiPower recommendations, you can find them at thebigpicduredvd.com's 400q forum. Also, KBK is a big supporter of using the HiPower screen, especially now that the latest crop of lcds and dlps have much higher contrast ratios. I really like the HiPower--I found it gives me more latitude to adjust brightness and contrast settings, gives me a very bright picture, and still shows rich black levels. Plus, I have a pull-down model, and it doesn't show wrinkles as much as other materials. Only drawback I can see is the narrow viewing cone--picture brightness drops pretty dramatically if you get much pas 25 degrees to either side.

mike
post #57 of 98
Samurai Jack and ritter, my screen is 16:9 (80 x 45). When watching DVD and HD, the screen is filled. When watching regular digital cable (4:3), the picture is about 15 inches higher than my screen. IF I select the Native under aspect mode, the picture remains 4:3 but is shrunk (top and sides) to fit the 16:9 screen. Not really sure what this mode is for but it is what I use when watching non 16:9 material

patrick
post #58 of 98
Flooper..

I noticed in your shootout that in terms Screendoor Effect you favor the X1.

I had done much research then decided to go with Z1 basically because I'd be watching HDTV and DVDs mostly. I was very excited untill I set the unit up. I'm not sure what I was expecting but to be honest (and contrary to what everyone else is posting here) I was let down. The colors and blacks came nowhere even close to my RPTV. And only the HD signals looked good to me. BUT MOST ANNOYING was the 'screendoor". I had no idea what people where talking about in these posts and I KNOW NOW. Also I should have viewed one before buying.

The only projector I have been able to view in my town was the Sharp 9000 which looked amazing but was more than I can spend. I guess my question to you is regarding screendoor effect on the X1 and your opinion of it compared to Z1. I know you say they are similar but I'm hoping that there is a nice big difference in favor of X1 for less of screendoor. I've sent back the Z1 and now considering the X1 hoping that this screendoor issue is a NON-ISSUE.

If this doesn't work I think I'll save a bit and go for a higher resolution display. I was under the impression from these posts that there is no reason to pay more for a projector when you can get the same quality for 1500 or so. I guess I read into them too much or misread.. IMHO, Now me thinks the people who spend more ARE getting more.. alot more if you are concerned with a great looking picture and not just a big picture.

PS.. I don't seem to be sensitve at all to rainbows... the man in the store even tried to show me how to see them but I couldn't.
post #59 of 98
Flooper..

I noticed in your shootout that in terms Screendoor Effect you favor the X1.

I had done much research then decided to go with Z1 basically because I'd be watching HDTV and DVDs mostly. I was very excited untill I set the unit up. I'm not sure what I was expecting but to be honest (and contrary to what everyone else is posting here) I was let down. The colors and blacks came nowhere even close to my RPTV. And only the HD signals looked good to me. BUT MOST ANNOYING was the 'screendoor". I had no idea what people where talking about in these posts and I KNOW NOW. Also I should have viewed one before buying.

The only projector I have been able to view in my town was the Sharp 9000 which looked amazing but was more than I can spend. I guess my question to you is regarding screendoor effect on the X1 and your opinion of it compared to Z1. I know you say they are similar but I'm hoping that there is a nice big difference in favor of X1 for less of screendoor. I've sent back the Z1 and now considering the X1 hoping that this screendoor issue is a NON-ISSUE.

If this doesn't work I think I'll save a bit and go for a higher resolution display. I was under the impression from these posts that there is no reason to pay more for a projector when you can get the same quality for 1500 or so. I guess I read into them too much or misread.. IMHO, Now me thinks the people who spend more ARE getting more.. alot more if you are concerned with a great looking picture and not just a big picture.

PS.. I don't seem to be sensitve at all to rainbows... the man in the store even tried to show me how to see them but I couldn't.
post #60 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jackman11
Flooper..

The colors and blacks came nowhere even close to my RPTV. And only the HD signals looked good to me. BUT MOST ANNOYING was the 'screendoor". I had no idea what people where talking about in these posts and I KNOW NOW. Also I should have viewed one before buying.

PS.. I don't seem to be sensitve at all to rainbows... the man in the store even tried to show me how to see them but I couldn't.
Jackman,
Hmmm...I can only think you had a bad Z1 or were watching it in too much ambient light, or did not adjust it properly. I have a Sony HS10 61" RPTV that has been heavily tweaked for a gorgeous picture, and the Z1 (in controlled lighting) matches it every bit in terms of color, and comes very close in shadow detail and black levels.

But, in terms of screendoor, yes the Z1 has quite obvious screendoor at less than 1.8X viewing distance, as I said in my review. At about 2X, it goes away, or at least it did for me. I also found that I could defocus the Z1 a hair, and screendoor became much less obvious even at 1.5X--I could see it every so often, but not much.

The X1 also has screen door, but not quite as much as the Z1. I can sit comfortably at 1.5X and not be bothered by screendoor on the X1. But, it does have screendoor--so if you are very, very sensitive (I'm not) to screendoor, you may want to look at a higher rez pj, maybe the Sanyo PLV-60 with MLA. Or, you might want to go for the Panny AE300, which has the smoothscreen technology.

I sure am baffled why your colors and blacks were so bad on your Z1--I am still amazed at how my Z1 comes damn close to my Sony RPTV.

mike
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