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The High-Gain/Exotic Screen Review - Page 2

post #31 of 200
1/23/03 at 1:10pm
Thread Starter 
Sorry for misleading, but that photo has been manipulated. NO front projector can deliver a picture like that in that kind of ambient lighting. Or screen for that matter.
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post #32 of 200
1/23/03 at 1:28pm
Tryg, I guess I'm a little naive. I was ready to run out and get whatever magic projector and screen you had with that kind of picture and lighting! Please don't tell anyone that I'm that gullible
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post #33 of 200
1/23/03 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
In fantasyland this is how I want my picture to look! Unfortunatly it's really hard to judge reality with the limitations and products that we have. Best advice? ALWAYS SEE FOR YOURSELF!

this screen review should just serve as a guideline to compare some products.
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post #34 of 200
1/25/03 at 2:14pm
Tryg,

Could you explain how you determine the viewing angles? I would think it would be the height difference between the lens of the projector and the eye level of the viewer, plus the distance from the screen for both.

Example: If a person sat exactly above the lens and the height difference was say 3.5', while the distance the lens was from the screen was 14'. That would make the angle, if my geometry is correct, angle=invTan (3.5/14) or 14.03 degrees. I know this is only for the vertical plane, but is this how you came up with your numbers? I was thinking of seeing what the screen gain would drop to in relation to eye level and then consider the horizontal plane where the gain dropoff from center seat would occur.

Thanks,

Lexman
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post #35 of 200
1/25/03 at 9:47pm
Quote:


Originally posted by LexMan
Tryg,

Could you explain how you determine the viewing angles? I would think it would be the height difference between the lens of the projector and the eye level of the viewer, plus the distance from the screen for both.

Example: If a person sat exactly above the lens and the height difference was say 3.5', while the distance the lens was from the screen was 14'. That would make the angle, if my geometry is correct, angle=invTan (3.5/14) or 14.03 degrees. I know this is only for the vertical plane, but is this how you came up with your numbers? I was thinking of seeing what the screen gain would drop to in relation to eye level and then consider the horizontal plane where the gain dropoff from center seat would occur.

Thanks,

Lexman

I had similar questions for similar reasons a month or so ago. With the help of others geometry I put together and posted a spreadsheet that calcs the viewing angles based on pj lens height, screen height, and your eye level. To find it try searching on my username for a post with "geometry" in the subject. HTH.
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post #36 of 200
2/7/03 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by LexMan

Could you explain how you determine the viewing angles?

I'm not factering in vertical angle since it's really too small for the ceiling mount situation. All HORIZONTAL viewing angles are computed from the center of the screen (except of course that angle illustration in my initial post. those calculate individual photons that hit the far side of the screen then come back to the viewer on the opposite coach etc. just summing the angles there). All the other photos Projector is at 0 degrees...directly in front of the screen. Camera moves in 10 degree increments
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post #37 of 200
2/9/03 at 9:53am
"I'd even consider some Goo".

Is inherent bias or incomplete thinking showing through? Pardon me if I am doing the same.

Because I have decided to give people direct access to a fully formulated Screen coating, as a rollable, sprayable DIY alternative .... this is something that should not be frowned upon or taken out of context.
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post #38 of 200
2/9/03 at 10:06am
Thread Starter 
Ok Ken, show me your stuff

Send me a couple samples of your best stuff...I'll PM my address

Since I dont work in the AV industry in any way I can be somewhat objective and I generally don't get caught up in the hype of any product(unlike most of this forum). I will call em as I sees em.

I am human however. So, of course I'm biased. A product that costs $10 and does exactly the same thing as a product that costs $2000 will likely get warmer words from me.
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post #39 of 200
2/9/03 at 11:32am
Tyrg/lovingdvd,

Thanks for the replies. I have the same idea you had of making a spreadsheet to calculate viewing angles.

-Lexman
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post #40 of 200
2/9/03 at 6:47pm
The problem, Tryg, is I can make anything I want..and send it to you. Not fair! so I have to send you the product we are selling, of course! One sample on it's way. It will be a rolled, and sprayed sample. I could cheat and send in a Ringer (lab brewed fun stuff), but no. If I did that.. people might expect me to make that availble too.
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post #41 of 200
2/10/03 at 8:53am
Thread Starter 
?? Ken if you got some magical stuff that you pulled out of a downed UFO then send it.

are you saying you only sell your crappy stuff? or is your secret stuff so good us mortals can't handle it?
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post #42 of 200
2/10/03 at 8:56am
Tryg....

The amount of effort to supply great information is incredulous. Thanks.

KBK...

I dont understand why you don't make the "Ringer" I presume that is what everyone would want the fun stuff. How much more would it be for the "fun stuff" if it was mass produced and the product you are currently selling set aside?
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post #43 of 200
2/12/03 at 1:17pm
This seems to be kind of a unique opportunity with Ken sending a Goo sample to Tryg. I wonder if someone could send a Gesso screen and a Behr Silverstag/pearlecent paint screen sample. Those seem to be the most popular DIY coatings, it would be the first time they were all compared together.
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post #44 of 200
2/12/03 at 1:23pm
a worthy first post!

I hope someone can send those in as well!
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post #45 of 200
2/13/03 at 7:37am
No.. no UFO stuff. It's just that with a lab (at my designing disposal) that has produced over 4800 different finished products, all tending to be the best the planet has to offer in their respective class of product......the variations on a theme can get ridiclous. Too many options.
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post #46 of 200
2/13/03 at 1:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by KBK
that has produced over 4800 different finished products,

Wow, how do you get the time to send out any customers product? Lets see, a little over a year let just say 400 days, that's about 12 finished products per day... You must have a huge storage facility.

You can just send me the one you think gives nice gain(1.5-2.0), sheds all ambient light, is viewable from all angles, and has perfect colometry.

you probably got some of that stuff right?

On the other hand, just send me something I'll be impressed with.
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post #47 of 200
2/13/03 at 6:03pm
Excellent post, Tryg. That's the kind of thing the HT mags should be doing but aren't. Kudos.

I've always been a high power advocate, believing that it gives a better picture than grey screens whenever you don't have lumens to burn coming out of the projector. Bright is perceived as contrastier than a dim picture of the equivalent contrast. Especially if there is ambient light.

It's a shame you didn't have any of the Draper M2500 material that I use (gain 2.5). I would have liked to see how it compares to the Da-Lite High Power.

-Tom
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post #48 of 200
2/14/03 at 6:42am
Tryg....

I dont think KBK was stating that he actually produced the the 4800 different finished products, but rather that the lab....at his designing disposal has produced them. Maybe I am wrong... but that is what I thought KBK was stating.
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post #49 of 200
2/14/03 at 2:23pm
Here is a link to the lab plans for one of the products :
http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
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post #50 of 200
2/15/03 at 9:38am
Thanks for the link blitz.... too funny...
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post #51 of 200
2/16/03 at 4:02pm
is there much difference in the dalite cinema vision and the high contrast cineama vision????
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post #52 of 200
2/17/03 at 6:51pm
Well, I decided to go ahead and make a Behr Silver stag/Pearlescent screen. (now if only my HS-10 would arrive) Anyway, I sent a screen sample off to Tryg today, all we need now is a Gesso screen!
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post #53 of 200
2/17/03 at 7:10pm
Tryg-
How did you measure the drop off (or lack thereof) in gain as the viewing angle changed?
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post #54 of 200
2/18/03 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 
Steve,

I didn't. Did you see in my review that I did? I did however make some subjective comments based on what I saw the products do, and how they performed.
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post #55 of 200
2/18/03 at 8:48am
Tryg-
I just ASSUMED (bad idea) that there was a least some science to your review, especially since I noticed that you've posted on the LiquiScreen thread by "correcting" a chart. How can you correct that chart, which has specific numbers, if you haven't done any measurments on your own??

I'm not saying whether or not the Liquiscreen chart is right, but I think it's important to make sure that others understand that your review is simply your subjective judgement, and not in any way based on science of measurements.

I guess it's my fault to have read too much into your review, but when you threw out numbers about viewing cones and gain, etc. I just figured you had made the effort to actually measure it. I guess your post is more of a "nice read" rather than a definitive review! Nonetheless, you've certainly spent a lot of time and effort on it, and thanks for that!
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post #56 of 200
2/18/03 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
Steve, I didn't say I haven't taken measurements with an instrument(because I have). I stated, I didn't want to share them in the review because I didn't want to dispute any manufacturers claims or argue about minute details of the data.

However, in the liquiscreen case the claims are glaringly false for at least one product. For more info on gain curves and specific data provided for a product, Stewart does a great job. See their site here

http://www.stewartfilm.com/home_cine...tudioTek%20130

Many people that seek screen information are in the learning phase. ANY obvious misrepresentations of products should be stopped before people start using that info to make decisions.
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post #57 of 200
2/19/03 at 5:20am
Yes. the lab has been in operation for approximately 8-9 years. And it has produced 4800 finished product designs within that time period. (averages out to approximately 10 per week!) So we can fool around in the lab, no doubt about that. We have attempted to come up with a different solution, compared to the standard design of screen product that is available today. We started with a clean slate, and tried to cut absorption of light to the most minimal amount possible, to retain as much punch and balance in a reflected image as is possible.

I applied some of my more simplistic understandings of temporal/boundary/junctive/field effects to the product's design considerations. Why not? It's universal key, it applies everywhere.
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post #58 of 200
2/19/03 at 5:28am
Junctive ?? As applied to screen design ???

Junctive as in one of the 3 kinds of comparative verbs ?? Lost me there my man...
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post #59 of 200
2/19/03 at 5:35am
Also, would like to say..that accurately measuring gain in two different places, with different equipment is of course, going to give you different results. Tryg has the right view of not countering manufacturer's claims by posting his measurements. This is the right thing to do. Only if things are GLARINGLY off their spec, should mention of it be made. Others should not be posting or making claims against someone else's product, specifically if there is a commercial concern, and specifically if it is on this forum, which is not to have a commercial cast to it. Mention of discrepancies should be noted, or made public, only by concerns (or people) that are obviously outside of any commercial concerns or bias, as much as is humanly possible. Then, it may be possible to rely upon such information, but still...even then...take it with a grain of salt, is my advise. See it yourself.....


For example, you would not believe some of the emails and PM's I've had.. or on a strange day or two.. Pm'd some seriously strange stuff to people in the industry, or they to me. Ahhh...the stories! Some are gut-bustingly funny... some just sad. We all have our bad days.

I can answer questions, but definitely try to steer my self away from getting feverish. I have even started threads based on the great value and usefulness of another company's product.
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post #60 of 200
2/19/03 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
Junctive ?? As applied to screen design ???

Junctive as in one of the 3 kinds of comparative verbs ?? Lost me there my man...

Molecular-frequential-harmonic-temporal-junctive-vectoral-etheric-relativistic considerations, my man.

Hiesenbuggy as the day is long.

Everything anyone will ever need to know about the true nature of reality is contained in that one sentence.

Figure it out.

Simple enough.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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