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Albany, NY - HDTV - Page 62

post #1831 of 5011
What's going on with WB? Great picture but no sound during show and very low sound and out of sync on com. Are they still working on this?
post #1832 of 5011
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post

In the Chief Engineer Q&A forum on AlbanyHDTV, MasterFX1 reported trouble from his roof antenna but good indoor reception. He thought it might be a multipath issue.

I have to update my situation, BOTH of setups are not able to properly tune WEWB-DT. Neither my indoor antenna/VOOM STB or my outdoor antenna/DirecTV STB can get a watchable signal. Both setups show me about 1 still frame every second.
post #1833 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by timick1 View Post

I am using a SA 8300HD DVR with an optical cable going to my Onkyo SR-600 receiver. I also have an HDMI cable going from my STB to my Sony KDF-55XS955 (RP-LCD) TV. In order to get DD to work, I need to go into the settings on the STB and change it from HDMI to Digital (when I want to use my surround system). I have a slot for a cablecard, but I can't give up (live without) my DVR. I know some of the shows I watch (before the reruns) on the big 4 were in DD. I haven't watched lately, though, so I don't know if it's still the case. I hope it is! I just remember thinking to myself last night while watching the game "hey, doesn't this channel broadcast in Dolby?"

The cynic in me leads me to believe Time Warner implements CCI quite differently in their SA STBs than their SA CableCARDs.
post #1834 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by timick1 View Post

I didn't get last nights Yanks/Mets game on ESPN-HD in Dolby. However, I still get INHD, HDNET, and DiscoveryHD in Dolby Digital. Did we ever get ESPN-HD in Dolby? I don't remember yes or no.

Tim

ESPN doesn't use Dolby surround. They use something called "circle surround". This is pasted from their website:

"In order to make the most of ESPN HD, look for a receiver with the SRS Circle Surround logo on the faceplate. ESPN HD uses this encoding system for their 5.1 surround sound track! Dolby Pro-Logic and Dolby Pro-Logic II decoders will also be able to produce a surround sound effect with the ESPN HD audio track. Also make sure your receiver bears the Dolby Digital and DTS logos to make the most out of all of your DVD movies."
post #1835 of 5011
Some bad thunderstorms plaqued our viewing area tonite and my Time Warner RoadRunner service has been disconnecting/re-connecting for hours, my neighbors TW cable service was shut down and tv viewing was impossible during and after the storm. I'm sure customers with the digital phone service from TW were also affected and inconvenienced by this unfortunate event.

I am a Directv subscriber and my television service hasn't so much as hiccuped the whole nite. In fact it looks as good as any other nite regardless of weather conditions. In fact I invited the neighbors to come over and watch television at my place until their service was returned.

Makes me wonder about those commercials advertised by TWC comparing satellite tv to cable tv. silly cable broadcasters, i'll stick to satellite.

Its been a few YEARS since I lost my DTV signal to weather conditions, but the next time it happens I will report it here to make a "concrete" comparison between the two services just to be fair.
post #1836 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterFX1 View Post

I have to update my situation, BOTH of setups are not able to properly tune WEWB-DT. Neither my indoor antenna/VOOM STB or my outdoor antenna/DirecTV STB can get a watchable signal. Both setups show me about 1 still frame every second.

Try eliminating any preamps that you may have after your antenna. With the high power from WEWB as well as WRGB's increased signal, there's a much greater possibility of overload of an amplifier. Multipath would be the same at all power levels.
post #1837 of 5011
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post

Try eliminating any preamps that you may have after your antenna. With the high power from WEWB as well as WRGB's increased signal, there's a much greater possibility of overload of an amplifier. Multipath would be the same at all power levels.

The VOOM STB is connected to an amplified antenna, but is indoors. The DirecTV STB is hooked to an unamplified antenna on my roof. Same reception issues on both. I wonder if there are two many refractions from Bald Mt.
post #1838 of 5011
I just got a USDigital receiver and I have an outdoor antenna in my attic in Wynantskill. For Analog I get a great channel 13, close to great 6, and a decent 10. As to 17, 23, and 45, they are worthless. Now for the digital/HD, I can only get 10.1, 10.2, the 2 PBS's and WB which always says that it is off air. I cannot understand why I cannot get Digital/HD 6 or 13 at all. The tuner does its own search for channels or I can manually put in the numbers and I get nothing. Any suggestions?

:-)
Rob
post #1839 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgn2000 View Post

I just got a USDigital receiver and I have an outdoor antenna in my attic in Wynantskill. For Analog I get a great channel 13, close to great 6, and a decent 10. As to 17, 23, and 45, they are worthless. Now for the digital/HD, I can only get 10.1, 10.2, the 2 PBS's and WB which always says that it is off air. I cannot understand why I cannot get Digital/HD 6 or 13 at all. The tuner does its own search for channels or I can manually put in the numbers and I get nothing. Any suggestions?

:-)
Rob

Your antenna system is not working properly on the UHF channels. The analog signals on 17, 23, and 45 need to be at least viewable before you can expect DTV to work. Is it an all channel antenna? Is the antenna aimed at the Helderbergs? With WNYT-DT located in the Helderbergs, there's no longer any reason to compromise the aiming of an antenna. If the portion of the roof that it is aiming through is made with wood and asphalt, thanks OK, if it's aluminum siding or foil backed insulation, that's not good. Try another spot in the attic. Are the connections OK? Is the feedline of high quality?

The DTV reception that you are getting can only be attributed to serendipity.
post #1840 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterFX1 View Post

The VOOM STB is connected to an amplified antenna, but is indoors. The DirecTV STB is hooked to an unamplified antenna on my roof. Same reception issues on both. I wonder if there are two many refractions from Bald Mt.

How's your reception of analog 45? I think digital 45 (RF 43) comes from the same place, and of course they're close in frequency. Ghosting on the analog should be an indicator of multipath on the digital. My reception of analog 45 is essentially clean, with a very faint ghost I can see only when there's a sharp-edged object against a plain background. But as I reported before, I can't get watchable reception of digital 45 since the power increase although I could before. I tried eliminating the amp in the line and used a variable attenuator, but it didn't help. I'm convinced there's something non-standard about the transmission.

How about some reports from others on WEWB reception, both good and bad. Is anyone getting clean reception without constant breakups? If you get it well and have an HD DVR, can you record it without problems? What equipment are you using? I'm mostly interested in which receivers and recorders work/don't work.
post #1841 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post

Your antenna system is not working properly on the UHF channels. The analog signals on 17, 23, and 45 need to be at least viewable before you can expect DTV to work. Is it an all channel antenna? Is the antenna aimed at the Helderbergs? With WNYT-DT located in the Helderbergs, there's no longer any reason to compromise the aiming of an antenna. If the portion of the roof that it is aiming through is made with wood and asphalt, thanks OK, if it's aluminum siding or foil backed insulation, that's not good. Try another spot in the attic. Are the connections OK? Is the feedline of high quality?

The DTV reception that you are getting can only be attributed to serendipity.


Thanks for responding. My Antenna is UHF/VHF. My 17, 23, and 45 are viewable in analog, just not great. Like I said, I am not even getting Digital 13. From what I see on Antennaweb.org the compass direction is basically the same for 6, 10, 13, and the future 23. If I get 10, I see no reason why I am not getting 6 or 13. I am getting no signal whatsoever. Oh, my house is vinyl siding and roof is wood and ashfalt. I don't think I could get a better signal for 23. Actually my satellite guy helped me install it and set it up for the best possible signal. That was for analog. From what I can see on antenna.org, the compass directions are pretty much the same as analog 13 so there is not reason why I should not get decent quality for the digitals. My antenna should not need to be realigned should it?

:-)
Rob
post #1842 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post

How about some reports from others on WEWB reception, both good and bad. Is anyone getting clean reception without constant breakups?

Reception on my end has been poor as well, constant breakups since the move to full power.
Maybe the question should be directed towards the people affliated at WEWB instead of the viewers. Seems like an issue on their end and probably not related to our equipment.

Anyone from WEWB care to comment on this?

Bueller?.. Bueller?....
post #1843 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakStuff View Post

Reception on my end has been poor as well, constant breakups since the move to full power.
Maybe the question should be directed towards the people affliated at WEWB instead of the viewers. Seems like an issue on their end and probably not related to our equipment.

I agree. On Monday 6/20 when there was testing at full power, picture was good. Since they came back on 6/22 I either get a blank screen or a picture with a strobe effect accompanied by occasional flagging of the top portion of the picture. A diagnostic screen on my TV also indicates "PCR unlocked."

Ironically, an early generation of DTV tuner at work has been showing a decent picture, while another model purchased just recently shows a blank screen.

My best guess is there is something missing or wrong in the transport stream.
post #1844 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakStuff View Post

Reception on my end has been poor as well, constant breakups since the move to full power.
Maybe the question should be directed towards the people affliated at WEWB instead of the viewers. Seems like an issue on their end and probably not related to our equipment.

Anyone from WEWB care to comment on this?

Bueller?.. Bueller?....

I agree; it's almost certainly a transmission problem. But if only a couple of us are having trouble, the CE would be more likely to blame our setups (so would I). If we're all having trouble they might try to find out why.

The logical place to ask is the WEWB Chief Engineer's Q&A over at AlbanyHDTV, but I can't post there. Probably invitation-only.

I brought one of my HTPCs to work tonight. MyHD MDP-130, Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna, no amp. Near I-90 and 85, ground floor. No problem with any stations on the hill except the constant pixelation on WEWB. Not even when I pointed the antenna at PAX (D50) in Amsterdam, which was weak but steady, like WEWB used to be.

Good Ben Stein imitation, BTW.
post #1845 of 5011
Thread Starter 
I removed power to my amplified antenna setup and still have the exact same strobing picture on WEWB-DT. My analog 45 comes in perfect. Based on my own experience and the reports of other viewers in this thread I am now also beginning to think there is something non-standard in WEWB-DT's data stream. Both of my setups receive all other local digitals fine.

My STB's are a VOOM (Motorola) Box and a Zenith Sat520.
post #1846 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgn2000 View Post

Thanks for responding. My Antenna is UHF/VHF. My 17, 23, and 45 are viewable in analog, just not great. Like I said, I am not even getting Digital 13. From what I see on Antennaweb.org the compass direction is basically the same for 6, 10, 13, and the future 23. If I get 10, I see no reason why I am not getting 6 or 13. I am getting no signal whatsoever. Oh, my house is vinyl siding and roof is wood and ashfalt. I don't think I could get a better signal for 23. Actually my satellite guy helped me install it and set it up for the best possible signal. That was for analog. From what I can see on antenna.org, the compass directions are pretty much the same as analog 13 so there is not reason why I should not get decent quality for the digitals. My antenna should not need to be realigned should it?

:-)
Rob

Additional comments on attic antennas are at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=75&pp=30

If your antenna was working properly 17 and 45 would be as clear as a bell.
post #1847 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post

The logical place to ask is the WEWB Chief Engineer's Q&A over at AlbanyHDTV, but I can't post there. Probably invitation-only.

You have to be a registered member to post in the Chief Engineer forum. There is no "invitation-only" posting requirement.

Mr. Lapietra posts regularly in the WEWB Chief Engineer forum. Ask the question, and I'm sure he'll reply in a few days. (unless he's on vacation)

I haven't used my OTA STB in some time, so I fired it up tonight. I receive no audio or video on 45-1, even though the signal strength registers at 70%. I have an attic mounted antenna and have line-of-sight to the tower in the Helderbergs, which is 8 miles away.

I thought it was worth mentioning that WRGB is using bandwidth to display their Doppler Radar on 6-3.
post #1848 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post

Additional comments on attic antennas are at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=75&pp=30

If your antenna was working properly 17 and 45 would be as clear as a bell.


Ok forget 17 and 45, why can't I get 6 and 13 since I am able to get 10? Also 17 comes in no problem. As to 45, Everytime I have checked there is a message on the screen that says there is no programming at this time. But again, 6 and 13 should be coming in if I can get both 10's correct?

:-)
Rob
post #1849 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbanyHDTV View Post

ESPN doesn't use Dolby surround. They use something called "circle surround". This is pasted from their website:

"In order to make the most of ESPN HD, look for a receiver with the SRS Circle Surround logo on the faceplate. ESPN HD uses this encoding system for their 5.1 surround sound track! Dolby Pro-Logic and Dolby Pro-Logic II decoders will also be able to produce a surround sound effect with the ESPN HD audio track. Also make sure your receiver bears the Dolby Digital and DTS logos to make the most out of all of your DVD movies."

Weather it's DD 5.1 or circle surround doesn't really matter if Albany Time Warner Cable sets the "copy control" flag to "copy never" which disables the digital interface(s) of a CableCARD compliant HDTV. Why Albany Time Warner enables digital sound output for the 1200 tier music channels and 1800 tier locals but not the 1800 tier TNT-HD, IND-HD, YES-HD, ESPN-HD, etc., is the question their CATV digital subscribers would like an answer to.
post #1850 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbanyHDTV View Post

You have to be a registered member to post in the Chief Engineer forum. There is no "invitation-only" posting requirement.

Mr. Lapietra posts regularly in the WEWB Chief Engineer forum. Ask the question, and I'm sure he'll reply in a few days. (unless he's on vacation)

I haven't used my OTA STB in some time, so I fired it up tonight. I receive no audio or video on 45-1, even though the signal strength registers at 70%. I have an attic mounted antenna and have line-of-sight to the tower in the Helderbergs, which is 8 miles away.

I though it was worth mentioning that WRGB is using bandwidth to display their Doppler Radar on 6-3.

Is there a difference between a registered member and any other kind of member? If so, how do I register? I signed up, I have a username (ebo, same as here) and password. When I log in I can apparently post replies to threads in some forums (at least there's a reply box at the bottom of the thread) but not in the CE Q&A forums, and I don't see any way to start a new thread anywhere. I can modify my profile but I see nothing there or elsewhere about registering beyond what I've already done.

I just checked WEWB-DT. Strong signal, no picture on two different tuners. Guess they're working on it.

As for WRGB's Doppler Radar Channel, I've always considered it a total waste of bandwidth, especially since its appearance coincided with the return of a problem I'd had with 6-2, which I thought had been fixed. One of my receivers (LG LST-3410A) shows jerky motion on 6-2 in any resolution except forced 480i (in Native mode, the LG converts 480i to 480p). It's not freezing; it's more like showing fields out of order, so that still pictures are OK but movement jumps back and forth between current and previous frames. The MyHD cards handle it OK, and so does the LG in 480i, but I'm not going to keep changing resolutions just to watch UPN in SD. Especially with Enterprise gone.

But I did use the radar to monitor storms last Friday night. I work at a satellite uplink, and heavy rain knocks out our transmission and/or reception. Nothing I could do about it, but at least I could estimate when it would happen and how long it would last. Still, I'd rather get that from their web site and give the bandwidth to 6-1.

For wastes of bandwidth, I nominate 13-2, an SD duplicate of 13-1. If they must run an SD channel (and I don't see why they must) they should at least put something different on it. Even if it's the same shows delayed 2 or 3 hours. If you missed it at 8:00, catch it at 11:00.
post #1851 of 5011
Thread Starter 
Ebo-

6-3 (When Displaying Radar) uses next to nothing for bandwidth. Since only an extremely tiny bit a information changes from frame to frame, it is probably only using 1mb/s (out of WRGB's allotment of 19+).

13-2, as a viewer in the immediate area is a waste. However, it is not really intended for us OTA or TWC viewers. 13-2 is an extremely cost effective way for WNYT to cleanly deliver their signal to distant cable systems. Rather than having a distant cable system attempt to recieve an analog signal OTA to insert into their lineup or use an expensive fiber connection... A distant cable operator can recieve 13-2 digitally via OTA and feed it right into their analog cable lineup. Thus WNYT is increasing it's viewership with relatively no expense.
post #1852 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgn2000 View Post

Ok forget 17 and 45, why can't I get 6 and 13 since I am able to get 10? Also 17 comes in no problem. As to 45, Everytime I have checked there is a message on the screen that says there is no programming at this time. But again, 6 and 13 should be coming in if I can get both 10's correct?

:-)
Rob

WEWB-DT has a PCR problem. If all goes well, it may be corrected today.

If there is a bad connection to your antenna, the refelections in the feedline due to high VSWR will vary greatly depending on the channel.

Antenna patterns are sharper at higher channels, so if your antenna is mis-aimed, it would not bother WTEN as much as WRGB. WTEN-DT is on channel 26, WRGB-DT is on channel 39.

WNYT-DT is on channel 12 and is located in the Helderbergs. If your antenna is aimed at Bald Mountain (WNYT's analog site), there could be interference from 13 into 12.

Try to re-aim your antenna for a strong channel 45 analog with no snow. Re-check your antenna connections. Try an outdoor location for your antenna.
post #1853 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post

WEWB-DT has a PCR problem. If all goes well, it may be corrected today.

Apparently all went well. I just checked WEWB-DT, and it looks fine on all my receivers. And I can even record it on my LG DVR, which I haven't been able to do for months. Good job, WEWB techs!
post #1854 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Weather it's DD 5.1 or circle surround doesn't really matter if Albany Time Warner Cable sets the "copy control" flag to "copy never" which disables the digital interface(s) of a CableCARD compliant HDTV. Why Albany Time Warner enables digital sound output for the 1200 tier music channels and 1800 tier locals but not the 1800 tier TNT-HD, IND-HD, YES-HD, ESPN-HD, etc., is the question their CATV digital subscribers would like an answer to.

You keep claiming the CCI byte is set to "copy never" but here from section 9 on page 33 of the OpenCable Specifications, CableCARD Copy Protection 2.0 Specification located here: http://www.opencable.com/downloads/s...I01-050331.pdf

9.1.2 EMI - Digital Copy Control Bits
The two lsb of the CCI byte are the EMI bits. They SHALL control copy permissions for digital copies. The EMI
bits SHALL be supplied to any Host digital output ports for control of copies made from those outputs. The EMI
bits are defined in Table 9.1-3.

Table 9.1-3 - EMI Values and Copy Permissions
EMI Value Digital Copy Permission
00b Copying not restricted
01b No further copying is permitted
10b One generation copy is permitted
11b Copying is prohibited


It thus appears the value of 2 actually means 'copy once,' so shouldn't the question be directed towards Panasonic about why their device is disabling optical digital output for channels with that value of CCI?
post #1855 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProTuber View Post

You keep claiming the CCI byte is set to "copy never" but here from section 9 on page 33 of the OpenCable Specifications, CableCARD Copy Protection 2.0 Specification located here: http://www.opencable.com/downloads/s...I01-050331.pdf

9.1.2 EMI - Digital Copy Control Bits
The two lsb of the CCI byte are the EMI bits. They SHALL control copy permissions for digital copies. The EMI
bits SHALL be supplied to any Host digital output ports for control of copies made from those outputs. The EMI
bits are defined in Table 9.1-3.

Table 9.1-3 - EMI Values and Copy Permissions
EMI Value Digital Copy Permission
00b Copying not restricted
01b No further copying is permitted
10b One generation copy is permitted
11b Copying is prohibited


It thus appears the value of 2 actually means 'copy once,' so shouldn't the question be directed towards Panasonic about why their device is disabling optical digital output for channels with that value of CCI?

The fault is definitely somewhere between Panasonic and the SA PowerKEY CableCARD and based upon the diagnostic information being passed by the PDP and the support (not) being provided by Albany Time Warner Cable it's impossible to determine.

Why do I get DD using the PDPs optical out interface for the 1200 tier and channels 1801, 1806, 1810, 1811 and 1813, but not TNT-HD, IND-HD, YES-HD? Why was I receiving DD on ESPN-HD two weeks ago but not now? Time Warner has to be flipping the bits, playing with things at the "head-end."

Supposedly the TV is certified with the OpenCable specifications and there are numerous reports of problems with the SA PowerKEYs that require firmware upgrades to resolve. My CableCARD has a firmware date of March 26, 2005; we'll see if the next release can fix this problem.
post #1856 of 5011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterFX1 View Post

Ebo-

6-3 (When Displaying Radar) uses next to nothing for bandwidth. Since only an extremely tiny bit a information changes from frame to frame, it is probably only using 1mb/s (out of WRGB's allotment of 19+).

True, but even that is misleading as the ~1 mb/s drops somewhat lower to accomodate high motion on 6-1. 6-3 is highly buffered so that it borrows most of it's bits when there is no motion on 6-1. (Notice that 6-3 takes longer to tune in than 6-1.) The delay is due to buffering and a longer GOP, or "Group Of Pictures", which means an extremely low bit rate for images between full I frames. A long GOP is well suited to slow motion images such as Doppler Radar.
post #1857 of 5011
The WXXA DTV channel 7 decision was made on May 23rd and published on June 1.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-05-1494A1.pdf
post #1858 of 5011
Tower Guy, what does this mean to us in terms of a livedate- now-90 days- 120 days?
post #1859 of 5011
Thread Starter 
WXXA's Chief Engineer states on the fox23news.com website that WXXA has now applied for a construction permit to operate at 10kw. Live date would be approx 120 days from FCC approval of the construction permit.
post #1860 of 5011
Thanks for the info - well it looks like it may be in time for NFL season this year. That's good news.
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