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Albany, NY - HDTV - Page 12

post #331 of 4974
1/12/04 at 2:41pm
i will switch at least one of my 2 boxes, probably both, but has anyone figured out what the squeeze has actually done to the resolution? TWC sent out these great emails promoting this event (FOX in HD - NOT) without checking to make sure it is actually working correctly.
I have a Samsung OTA HD reciever on the way, so hopefully I will see the PATS in true HD this weekend.

When the Sopranos ends in May, I'll get rid of HBO. If TWC doesn't carry ALL of the locals in HD, I'll get rid of digital cable as well.
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post #332 of 4974
1/12/04 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
I have a Samsung OTA HD reciever on the way, so hopefully I will see the PATS in true HD this weekend.

I hate to say this (not sure if it's only me) but you will not be seeing true HD next weekend on WRGB-DT. Check out my posts....#178 , #180 and post #182.

I believe WRGB-DT is not allocating enough bandwidth for their HD broadcasts especially for a fast moving sport such as football. The picture gets extremely pixilated at times along with the "dancing grass" effect. Maybe I notice it more because I have a 65" TV.

I thought about getting a hold of WRGB engineering and asking them if they could shut down their other channels temporally so they could give full needed bandwidth for the HD Super Bowl on Feb 1st.

Anyone think that's a good idea??
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post #333 of 4974
1/12/04 at 4:50pm
If WRGB is in fact limiting the bandwidth, that is a real problem that should be protested by us early adopters. Have they in fact admitted that they aren't sending out as good of a signal as they could? Or at least at the national average for CBS affiliates (what ever that is?) I can't really comment until I see it this weekend. I have a Sony projector on a 92" screen, so pixelization problems should be obvious.
How do CBS network programs look?

Paul

ps: TWC called me twice tonight to invite me to try Showtime, CInemax and Starz for free for a month. I said sure.
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post #334 of 4974
1/12/04 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
If WRGB is in fact limiting the bandwidth, that is a real problem that should be protested by us early adopters. Have they in fact admitted that they aren't sending out as good of a signal as they could? Or at least at the national average for CBS affiliates (what ever that is?) I can't really comment until I see it this weekend. I have a Sony projector on a 92" screen, so pixelization problems should be obvious.
How do CBS network programs look?

Paul

ps: TWC called me twice tonight to invite me to try Showtime, CInemax and Starz for free for a month. I said sure.

Network programs look good.

If you see what I seen on every CBS (WRGB) NFL game, you'll be disappointed. But don't get me wrong...it sure beats that awful analog picture most of America is still watching. I guess we need to take the good and the bad with new technology. .....but some stuff we shouldn't have to put up with.


"The picture was very clear (better than MNF on TWC 1810) during close ups with very little movement....but if you had a camera angle with a close-up of players running or with any fast movement, the picture became extremely pixilated"
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post #335 of 4974
1/12/04 at 6:39pm
A ot of reviewers have talked about 720P (ABC) being better movement and sports, and 1080i being better for tv programing and most movies. Could that account for the differences, or do you believe its more than that?

Have you had a chance to look at any sports on NBC (1080i)?
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post #336 of 4974
1/12/04 at 6:49pm
Ok guys, and maybe girls, could you please help me out. I'd start another thread, but I thought I could get a faster answer here. I live in Ballston Spa, and I'm looking to go OTA with a Set-Top Box. I've done a lot of reading and looking around, but I want some honest answers I know I'll get here. I have the HD Box from TW, but want the other channels. What would be the best equipment that I can purchase to get the job done. I checked the antenna page, and it seems that I can get all the "blue" stations. That being 6 and 13, as well as a few others. I'm willing to spend a little money, but I want to do it right, and not kick myself for my investment if it didn't go right. So, what setup do you guys think would suit my needs? Thanks for your help, as I appreciate it very much.
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post #337 of 4974
1/12/04 at 6:57pm
I just ordered a used Samsung 151 OTA only tuner for around $200.00 form Ebay. That's bottom of the rung, but I'm in the same position as you w/ TWC. If you want to spend more, Samsung has units with DVI out if your tv will take it. I've heard very good things about the Zenith 420 (around $400.00 new) which is OTA - only and the Zenith 520 (around $500 new) which adds a Direct TV and cable tuner. You will also obviously need some sort of antenna. I'm trying the $50.00 Radio shack 1st because some else on this thread in Guilderland had good luck with it.

Hope this helps.

Paul
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post #338 of 4974
1/12/04 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
A ot of reviewers have talked about 720P (ABC) being better movement and sports, and 1080i being better for tv programing and most movies. Could that account for the differences, or do you believe its more than that?

Have you had a chance to look at any sports on NBC (1080i)?

I've thought about it but it's just not the case according to what I've read on other threads in the AVS Forum. I think most people like 1080i for sports since it's crisper.

720p or 1080i football?

I've seen College Hockey, Boxing, Tennis, Wrestling on INHD without any pixilation (at least not noticeable). It's very distracting on WRGB.

I'm almost positive it's a bandwidth issue. But it seems I'm the only one on this local board that's complaining about it.

Anybody else seeing what I'm seeing??
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post #339 of 4974
1/12/04 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
A ot of reviewers have talked about 720P (ABC) being better movement and sports, and 1080i being better for tv programing and most movies. Could that account for the differences, or do you believe its more than that?

Have you had a chance to look at any sports on NBC (1080i)?

I have seen 720P on basketball and agree that it's generally better than 1080i. Unfortunately, Time Warner converts ABC's 720P to 1080i before they send it, so if you want a true comparison, you'll need an OTA system after WTEN signs on their HDTV transmitter. Note that many displays also convert from one scanning format to another, so it's hard to know what you're really seeing. If you want to compare progressive vs. interlace using ESPN HD in 720P, you'll need a satellite dish. The smoothness of motion on 60 frame progressive is impressive. The extra sharpness of 1080i video will only be noticable on displays with native resolutions higher than 1280 by 720. If you look close, a 720P display is softer horizontally than vertically, but still far better than SD. Also, and in spite of the hype, Time Warner is carrying Fox in 480P widescreen converted to 1080i. That's similar to the resolution of a DVD, but not HD. The Fox network expects 720P production to begin this fall.
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post #340 of 4974
1/13/04 at 1:30am
Thread Starter 
I would advocate shutting 6-2 down during both the Superbowl and the Grammys to devote full bandwidth on 6-1. I don't know if it is feasable, but I would advocate for it.

IMO, these two events (on consecutive Sundays on CBS) represent the absolute best live HD productions taking place to date.
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post #341 of 4974
1/13/04 at 5:09am
Looks like TW sent out an upgrade to the 3250 boxes. You can now zoom and stretch the 1080i and 720p outputs. XXA looks like it's ok now even at 1080i, we'll have to wait for a ED broadcast to be sure. You can also see the guide on the s-video output. Have to play with it more tonight.
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post #342 of 4974
1/13/04 at 5:11am
It is true that a full bandwith 1080i (very rare since most source material is not full horizontal bandwidth) with a still picture on a display capable of full horizontal resolution display (not very common either) can have more detail than a 720p source. But once movement is involved 720p has far better apparent resolution for a host of reasons. But since most HDTV displays are not very mature at this stage and since source material production is not very mature yet either, lots of fudge factors make the difference less than obvious.

Give it 5 to 10 years and no one will want to produce or view interlaced material once the apparent resolution advantages of progressive scan can be viewed as intended. This is not to say that 1080i is crap. A swith to 1080p for production will be the next step to improved viewing as even larger displays become common.

Richard.
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post #343 of 4974
1/13/04 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally posted by Feirstein

Give it 5 to 10 years and no one will want to produce or view interlaced material once the apparent resolution advantages of progressive scan can be viewed as intended.

Richard. [/b]

This may be true for live sports, but because most prime time drama is shot on film at 24P, there are not enough frames to give 720P (which sends out 60 progressive frames per second) any advantage over 1080i (which uses 60 interlaced frames per second.) Because there is no movement of the film frame, an interlaced film frame at 1080i becomes progressive and is actually sharper than a progressive film frame at 720P. In addition, any display with 3/2 pulldown capability turns all film transmissions into a progressive image anyway.
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post #344 of 4974
1/13/04 at 9:29am
tconnors,
I called TWC . They said that there was no upgrade but I can exchance my 3250 for a another 3250 and give it a try. Help
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post #345 of 4974
1/13/04 at 9:55am
I'll check my 3250 tonight to see if I notice any changes.
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post #346 of 4974
1/13/04 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally posted by therpmguy
tconnors,
I called TWC . They said that there was no upgrade but I can exchance my 3250 for a another 3250 and give it a try. Help

Yes there was an upgrade done. Another instance of TWC being completely Clueless. Tconnors you are correct!

We now can see the Guide on the S-Video output (we couldn't before) and the stretch modes work with 1080i and 720p outputs.

My box was also reset to channel 1 when I turned it on today. If TWC didn't do an upgrade they did something else because these options weren't available before.

Heres a good link... SA3250 Comprehensive Review Guide - Notes and Setup
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post #347 of 4974
1/13/04 at 11:03am
Can someone just confirm that the local channels (WRGB and WNYT) are outputing a Digital signal all day long (even when sending out SD), and not just when they have a HD program to show? I'm having trouble finding the tower on my new box. Also, for WRGB, do you turn to the channel to 6.1 or 39 or either?

thanks,

Paul
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post #348 of 4974
1/13/04 at 11:05am
I had my box on at 5:30am this morning watching the news when the upgrade happened, the box shut down the picture and symbols and numbers flashed on the box's display for 15 minutes. I knew an upgrade was happening but until I read this thread, I didn't know what.

Another thing I noticed when switching modes, before the TV displayed 480i or 1080i. Now it shows 480i normal and 1080i normal
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post #349 of 4974
1/13/04 at 12:30pm
Quote:


Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Can someone just confirm that the local channels (WRGB and WNYT) are outputing a Digital signal all day long (even when sending out SD), and not just when they have a HD program to show? I'm having trouble finding the tower on my new box. Also, for WRGB, do you turn to the channel to 6.1 or 39 or either?

thanks,

Paul

Yes it's a digital signal 24/7. Tune your box to 39 for WRGB-DT which will show 6-1 on your box. It will also see 6-2 and 6-3 on ch 39. Kind of confusing if you ask me. Check out..Post #1

You also have to remember the WRGB-DT is on the UHF and WNYT-DT is on VHF. I had a hard time getting both thru my RCA Indoor powered Antenna, but I now I have it adjusted just right.
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post #350 of 4974
1/13/04 at 12:34pm
Lufters and MasterFx1, what STB's do you guys own? Would you buy them again?
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post #351 of 4974
1/13/04 at 12:53pm
Quote:


Originally posted by jpeter1093
Lufters and MasterFx1, what STB's do you guys own? Would you buy them again?

I have the Samsung SIR-T151. I had the SIR-T351 and returned it. I was not happy with it because of the constant audio drop outs I had. I have read that a lot of them are defective with a Dolby Digital problem.

Samsung SIR-T351 Dolby Digital drops out

I'am happy with my T151.
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post #352 of 4974
1/13/04 at 12:59pm
lufter,
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post #353 of 4974
1/13/04 at 1:16pm
Lufters,
One more thing. When you change channels, it says in the top right corner "CATV 6-0" or some other channel, correct?

thanks,
Paul
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post #354 of 4974
1/13/04 at 1:33pm
Paul-

Is your antenna located indoors or outside?

Best results would be an external roof mount antenna. If you are using an indoor antenna you will want one that has a built in amplifier. I have experimented with non-amplified antennas and got unsatifactory results..
A compass would help in your case as well..
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post #355 of 4974
1/13/04 at 2:11pm
Breakstuff,

I bought a amplified indoor uhf/vhf antenna which gets analog signals to the tv no problem. I also have a large directional antenna in the attic which I aimed in the general direction of the new tower with no luck, yet it picks up 6/13 analog no problem. I have a compass somewhere and I will try to find it, but I'm not sure that is the problem. Through the Samsung, I'm getting nothing at all on the meter.

P
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post #356 of 4974
1/13/04 at 2:37pm
Quote:


Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Breakstuff,

I bought a amplified indoor uhf/vhf antenna which gets analog signals to the tv no problem. I also have a large directional antenna in the attic which I aimed in the general direction of the new tower with no luck, yet it picks up 6/13 analog no problem. I have a compass somewhere and I will try to find it, but I'm not sure that is the problem. Through the Samsung, I'm getting nothing at all on the meter.

P

Note that channel 13 is located north of Troy. The digital tower is in the Helderbergs near Thatcher Park. Try aiming your attic antenna for the best reception of WEWB analog on channel 45 and then connect the antenna to your Samsung. Or, there may be a menu selection on the Samsung that you're missing. Note that you must put the Samsung into the search mode and it must find a DTV signal before the signal meter will function.
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post #357 of 4974
1/13/04 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Paul-
As noted by TowerGuy, many tuners need to perform an autoscan in order to tune-in digital channels for the first time. Also, both WRGB-DT and WNYT-DT are broadcasting digital audio, it is a digital channel, if you hear any audio from a digital channel it is safe to assume it is digital. Dolby Digital 5.1 is another story. My audio receiver will automatically switch between Digital Stereo and DD5.1. Right now (7:20pm EST), both 6-1 and 13-1 are showing local up-converted programs. 13-1 says Dolby D but is not 5.1, 6-1 says Digital Stereo. During network programming when DD5.1 is available, both stations are able to pass along the DD5.1 signal.

Jpeter-
I am using the Zenith Sat520. I previously had a Panasonic TU-HDS20. The panasonic was crap... It had an unusually loud fan, took upto 30 seconds sometimes to change a channel and just had a less than useful interface, not to mention it could not receive WRGB-DT at my location with my existing antenna setup. The Zenith is way, way better. However, it does freeze and need to be re-booted about once every week or two. From what I have learned, LG makes the boxes for both Sony and Zenith. Thus similiar generation boxes from all 3 are really the same. The conclusion I reached after many nights of reading the hardware forums was that people are most happy with those three LG-made brands. The original RCA100 HD receiver (the first DirecTV HD receiver you could get) is still considered by owners (some of which now own more than 3 DTV receivers) to be the best and most reliable. I don't know if it even possible to get a new RCA100.
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post #358 of 4974
1/13/04 at 4:50pm
I've got it now. It was set for cable for some reason and had to be switched to antenna (hidden deep in the menu and the manaual). I'm getting 6 and 13. It 17-3 broadcasting tonight? I haven't gottne anythinh form WMHT yet.

thanks to all,
Paul
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post #359 of 4974
1/13/04 at 5:02pm
Yes, both 17-3 (HD) and 17-4 (SD) are currently broadcasting at this time..
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post #360 of 4974
1/13/04 at 6:23pm
Quote:


Originally posted by lufters
I just talked to WXXA Engineering about the problem (picture is squeezed). They've been aware of it and have been working on it with the network.

CHOP CHOP!


WXXA-DT 1808 is now fixed.

Don't see any 5.1 Surround though.
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