or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › Central New Jersey - OTA
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Central New Jersey - OTA - Page 2

post #31 of 2383
jaybp:

The 4228 is approx 36.5 inch square, and my hole in the attic was 36 inches. Hence, its somewhat bendable ... and not the best looking (I was thinking like a crab net :-)
post #32 of 2383
Quote:


I wonder how far I am from Philly. On the map sure looks further than I am from NYC

jaypb,

I did a quick calculation based on latitude and longitude for you distances from the Roxborough antenna farm in Philly and the Empire State Building. You are 42.8 miles from the Philly location and 33.6 miles from the ESB. This is based on my assumption of your location half way between Spotswood and Helmetta along Main St. (CR 615). Is this close enough?
post #33 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by RayN
jaypb,

I did a quick calculation based on latitude and longitude for you distances from the Roxborough antenna farm in Philly and the Empire State Building. You are 42.8 miles from the Philly location and 33.6 miles from the ESB. This is based on my assumption of your location half way between Spotswood and Helmetta along Main St. (CR 615). Is this close enough?

WoW! Not only do you LIVE in Princeton, but you're almost Einstein'ian in your calculations!!!

615 is "right up the road" as New Jersians say..... I'm actually a transplanted NY'er (Staten Island) and as a kid I used to be able to pick up WPHL on my ole' UHF loop antenna and watch Philly 76er games with Barkley and Toney and Cheeks and Ruland.....which is why I think I'm STILL fascinated with the idea of picking up distant OTA stations

I think I mentioned it in a post earlier last night---I inputted in 2-1 (WCBS out of NY) and actually got a somewhat pixelated signal---even though the antenna is facing 255 degrees Southwest. Either the 4228 is pretty sensitive or WCBS in NY is booming....because I thought I remember reading that one of the downsides of the E86 (my STB) is that it's not the most reliable at locking onto signals.

Thanks for the info---I'm just ITCHIN' to get that rotor hooked up!
post #34 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
jaybp:

The 4228 is approx 36.5 inch square, and my hole in the attic was 36 inches. Hence, its somewhat bendable ... and not the best looking (I was thinking like a crab net :-)

Gary,

Yeah, a crab net description will work as well. Either way it's definitely an eye catcher. Haven't had anyone stop me yet to ask what kind of antenna it is.

Seems I'm the only one in the neighborhood toying with HD signals!
post #35 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
jaypb:

You and I have pretty much the same reception. Analog Fox and NBC come in GREAT for me, get 20% on the digital equivalents - I get KYW digital at 85% whilst the analog channel is awful!!!

Gary

What kind of STB are you using? I know you mentioned the CM 4228 but I didn't notice your receiver. I have an E86 (Hughes) and was initially concerned when I read that it's internal OTA tuner wasn't as sensitive as the newer STB models. I was elated when I saw KYW's picture---and went to the other end of the spectrum when I saw most of my channels disappear within 24 hours

I'll get over it. trial and error, trial and error
post #36 of 2383
Let me know if you see improvement with the CM amp from Lowe's over the RS amp.

I can't get WB 17 and I am wondering if that will help. I currently have the RS amp.
post #37 of 2383
jaypb,

I have the Sony HD-200.
post #38 of 2383
Hey pabuwal,

If and when I make the run to Lowes, I will let u know how I make out !!!!

Gary
post #39 of 2383
Jaypb,
With that kind of height to your mast, you may need some wires to keep it in place when the wind blows.

I have my CM3023 (just like the 4248) about 8 feet in the air, w/o wires and it looks pretty precarious; It's been there for over a year through some pretty good wind gusts and so far, so good (knock on wood).

Also, I'm much farther north than you, and get the Philly stations pretty well- except 29-1 and 10-1, which are very unreliable.
post #40 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by PaulM9999
Jaypb,
With that kind of height to your mast, you may need some wires to keep it in place when the wind blows.

I have my CM4228 about 8 feet in the air, w/o wires and it looks pretty precarious; It's been there for over a year through some pretty good wind gusts and so far, so good (knock on wood).

Also, I'm much farther north than you, and get the Philly stations pretty well- except 29-1 and 10-1, which are very unreliable.

Paul,

I know what you are saying about "precarious". That's the way I felt when I put it up. I'm thinking about adding guy wires to the setup if/when I add on the rotor and another 5 foot section of mast.

I also picked up the pre-amp that Entropy was talking about...CM3041DSB. Lowe's had one in stock. 59.99 I believe. Think it was the same price at a few places online. Hopefully I'll be able to get it up this weekend...hopefully this supposed snow doesn't materialize.

I've had enough of winter

BTW---only getting KYW(3-1), UPN (57-1) and WNJT (43-1/2/3/4) strong tonight. Everything else is under 25 on my meter. Strangely,again, even though my 4228 is facing SOuthwest, when I got home tonight I had a pixelated picture from WCBS (2-1) and WNYW (5-1)...but they are gone now....

I'll figure this darn thing out.....
post #41 of 2383
I've got the CM 7775 amp, which works great up here in Warren County. Hopefully the model you picked up will do wonders for you. I tried the Radio Shack amp first, but it was useless. I went from 0-100 on KYW-DT just by adding the amp, and you're much closer to Philly than I am.
Good luck,
Paul
post #42 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by PaulM9999
I've got the CM 7775 amp, which works great up here in Warren County. Hopefully the model you picked up will do wonders for you. I tried the Radio Shack amp first, but it was useless. I went from 0-100 on KYW-DT just by adding the amp, and you're much closer to Philly than I am.
Good luck,
Paul

Paul,

I opened the box and just looked over the diagram/instructions. What kind of a cable/wire did you use to connect the antenna itself to the inside of the mast mount amplifier part with the 2 screws? A regular 300 ohm cable/wire? I know that the 4228 I hooked up came with a connector to hook up the RG6 to the dipoles themselves....but I'm not to clear on what to use to connect the antenna to this pre-amp.

Sounds like a stupid question huh?

I learned enough from the first time I was up on the roof that I want to have EVERYTHING I need as soon as I hit the shingles....and not have to come down (or go back to the store ) until I'm done....

Thanks!
post #43 of 2383
fords nj checking in!
i've only been able to get an indoor antenna set-up going, but I thought i'd add my two cents. i use the silver sensor with a radio shack 15-1171 amp connected to my dish 6000. i'm pretty close to nyc and about 53 miles from philly. as a result i get upn/fox out of nyc (60-74 strength) cbs out of nyc (low strength though so i usually use my dish network cbs), and the wonderful pbs out of trenton. i've got my fingers and toes crossed for wb to come on soon at a high enough power for me to pull it in too (i just want to see smallville in 1080i!). i'd love to get a roof top antenna going with a rotator, but we don't have the cash to spare yet and i don't know a good installer...
post #44 of 2383
Well, I took Entropy512's recommendation and on the way home from a meeting down in Holmdel decided to stop by the Lowes in Piscataway (right off I287 Exit 5). They had a poor antenna section but they did have two CM 3041DSB amps. I picked one up and installed it in the attic. Well, I am almost in DTV heaven. Except for a few glitches things are a lot better. I am again picking up NBC and UPN. Here's what I get and I picked up some additional channels:

CBS 3-1 (26) - always solid

ABC 6-1 (see on 64-1,-2; for some reason doesn't map into 6-1; rescanned a few times and got same result) - fine lock so it's a mystery why it won't map into 6-1 since it did before I changed out the RS for the CM amp.

NBC 10-1 (67) - looks good; I guess they are transmitting

PBS HYY 12-1 (55) - fine

WB 17-1 (54) - better lock-in

FOX 29-1 (42) - solid finally

LVT 39-1,-2-3,-4 (62) - have seen this before but forgot; now it's solid; for some reason I have to manually enter the -2-4 if I want to see them; favorites won't hold...

PBS NJN 43-1,-2 (43) - pretty good

UPN 57-1 (32) - solid

UNI 66-1 (?) - wow, new channel in Spanish

I should mention that I use two RS Yagi antenna's (not one) spliced together at 300 ohms then to the CM amp. But adding the second one did not make any difference from what I could tell. These are in the attic on a hill and facing unobstructed towards Phily. My DTV receiver is the very quirky Panasonic HDS20. It does have a great picture but it will reset occasionally, especially under a channel scan. I try not to bother it too much. At some point when most of the bugs are worked out and the functionality is improved on these HDTV-DirecTV receivers I will upgrade.

I may later try to orient one towards NYC to see if I can pick up a few of the transmitting NYC channels (gets a little frustrating watching Phily DTV stations during news). In the past I did not have much luck doing this.
post #45 of 2383
Looks like you are saying it improved things. I am going to the same Lowes today, so good thing you left one for me!
post #46 of 2383
Quote:


Originally posted by jaypb
Paul,

I opened the box and just looked over the diagram/instructions. What kind of a cable/wire did you use to connect the antenna itself to the inside of the mast mount amplifier part with the 2 screws? A regular 300 ohm cable/wire? I know that the 4228 I hooked up came with a connector to hook up the RG6 to the dipoles themselves....but I'm not to clear on what to use to connect the antenna to this pre-amp.

Sounds like a stupid question huh?

I learned enough from the first time I was up on the roof that I want to have EVERYTHING I need as soon as I hit the shingles....and not have to come down (or go back to the store ) until I'm done....

Thanks!

Standard 300 ohm twinlead. If the 4228 only has a coax connection, you can get a transformer. (Although that might add some loss and slightly offset the benefits of the amp - So in your case getting an amp with coax connections might be better, too bad Lowes doesn't have them too.)

My antenna at home has twinlead connections, so the amp was perfect for it. Mine isn't exactly mast mounted (no mast, the antenna is resting on the attic rafters, yes I know that isn't optimal but there aren't too many other options), it's just hanging from the antenna by its feed wire...
post #47 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Entropy512
Standard 300 ohm twinlead. If the 4228 only has a coax connection, you can get a transformer. (Although that might add some loss and slightly offset the benefits of the amp - So in your case getting an amp with coax connections might be better, too bad Lowes doesn't have them too.)

Maybe someone can confirm for me, as my newbie antenna vocabulary is limited, but I BELIEVE the 4228 has a twinlead connection---it came with a converter than allowed me to hook up the 75ohm coaxial RG6--ergo, I'm assuming I can just hook up the 300 ohm wire from the antenna itself to the pre-amp. I assume there is an outdoor rated wire for this? I'm visualizing the 300 ohm wires from years past that were paper thin and flimsy....is it still the same?

After reading about Paul's improvement in reception I'm DYING to hook it up and hopeful that this anticipated few inches of snow is off the roof by Saturday.

post #48 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by tonyo123
ABC 6-1 (see on 64-1,-2; for some reason doesn't map into 6-1; rescanned a few times and got same result) - fine lock so it's a mystery why it won't map into 6-1 since it did before I changed out the RS for the CM amp.

I believe there was a thread earlier last night on this issue. I checked my STB and it was still showing 6-1...but I couldn't pick up anything....and 64-1/2 picked up nothing as well when I did a scan.

Quote:


I may later try to orient one towards NYC to see if I can pick up a few of the transmitting NYC channels (gets a little frustrating watching Phily DTV stations during news). In the past I did not have much luck doing this.

I probably mentioned it earlier in the thread but for some reason I'm picking up (sporadically--with pixelation and dropouts galore) Fox 5 (5-1), WCBS 2 (2-1), WWOR-9 (5-2) from NYC even though my 4228 is pointed towards Philly----odd. Is this a "symptom" of anything? Multipath? I'm still unsure of the visual issues of Multipath (not sure if I know what to look for), but I thought it odd that I picked up the NYC Digitals whilst pointed towards Philly.

To paraphrase a line the great Christopher Walken used on SNL, "I've got a feva....and the only prescription....is more HDTV ...."
post #49 of 2383
Quote:


Originally posted by jaypb
Maybe someone can confirm for me, as my newbie antenna vocabulary is limited, but I BELIEVE the 4228 has a twinlead connection---it came with a converter than allowed me to hook up the 75ohm coaxial RG6--ergo, I'm assuming I can just hook up the 300 ohm wire from the antenna itself to the pre-amp. I assume there is an outdoor rated wire for this? I'm visualizing the 300 ohm wires from years past that were paper thin and flimsy....is it still the same?

After reading about Paul's improvement in reception I'm DYING to hook it up and hopeful that this anticipated few inches of snow is off the roof by Saturday.


Haven't really seen anything in this regard. Twinlead is inherently more resistant to corrosion than coax (except at the ends), since there's not really any center insulator for water to leak down through. (It's esp. bad for foam and air dielectric coax.)

Probably any 300 ohm line should be fine. You might want to insulate the connections themselves, although it's not like they're carrying high voltage.
post #50 of 2383
Well, went ahead and reoriented one of the two antenna's toward NYC. After some fiddling with the angle (approx 98 degrees), was able to pick up 2-1, 5-1,-2. This is great as I now can pick up NYC news. Then on rescanning the channels, I developed some other signal drop-outs on 29-1. After optimizing for it I lost 39-1,-2,-3,-4. Seems like you can never get everything right. But, I'm not complaining since I get most everything I want. I'm pretty happy. The CM 3041DSB really does a great job. I appreciate the help through this forum. I'm going to let the whole thing sit for a while and see if the situation changes after the bad weather moves through.

As far as the twin-lead 300 ohm question, a lot of the amp/pre-amps out out have either 300 ohm or 75 ohm inputs. So, this CM is 300 ohm-to-75 ohm output. Probably the best way to go. But, if your antenna already has a 75 ohm output, I would not reverse the signal to get it to 300 ohms then through the amp and back to 76 ohms, It seems like it would introduce loss and noise. 75 ohm coax CM's (model 0068 DSB) can be found at Stark Electronics (http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmpreamp.htm).

One thing that is confusing to me is why the CM 3041DSB doesn't show up there or in Channel Master's Web Site (http://www.cmnc.com/pages/ss1.htm). The brochure that came with the 3041DSB has internal instructions which call it a Spartan 3, again same as the 0064DSB. The model 0064 DSB has the same specs and input-outputs, as well as in appearance. The difference appears to be that the 3041 does not have a 'tunable FM trap' (it does have an in/out trap). Doesn't matter for HDTV since signal is digital. So except for this minor difference they are the same.
post #51 of 2383
Jaypb-

Great idea starting this thread. I was tired of being lumped into Phily and NYC threads...
post #52 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by tonyo123
Jaypb-

Great idea starting this thread. I was tired of being lumped into Phily and NYC threads...

I figured along the same lines---I kept hopping back and forth between both threads trying to figure out who had what, who was getting which channels---sending PM's to people so as not to "hijack" a thread with specific NJ based questions.

On to tonight----It's funny scanning through channels when there's nothing but Bush on

But seriously, , my E86 mapped WTVI up to 64-1 and 2, yet still shows 6-1 as Channel 6 as well. I'm getting a picture and some sound, but mucho pixelation on 64-1/2 and 6-1. Same goes for 17-1 and 29-1....I'm starting to wonder if the problematic Philly stations will "reach" me when it's colder out...seems that the night's I've been able to pick those channels up (6/17/29-1) have been the super cold nights. And now, with this wet, heavy snow, I can only hope that the stuff melts by Saturday---because I can't wait to try out the CM 3041DSB!!! Then I hear rain for Sunday

Stop the madness!!!!

At least CBS 3 (KYW-DT) is a solid 100 so the wife can watch CSI. Interestingly UPN 57 is also a solid 100. I'm trying to rationalize that one. Are they the only two operating at full power?

Looking on
100000watts website shows the two station lat/long's being a bit different...but "controlled" by the same company. I'm grasping for straws here.....
post #53 of 2383
Jaypb,
I've done what the others have suggested. The connector with twin leads is screwed onto the 3023 terminals and then I have RG-6 coax going from the connnector to the amp. I use quad-shield RG-6, which is supposed to eliminate signal loss when used outdoors.

Best of luck,
Paul
post #54 of 2383
I picked up the 3041DSB from Lowes. I have the Channel Master 4228 antenna.

The results were worse then what I had with my RS amp. But I am using a 300 to 75 ohm transformer to go from the antenna to the cable wire and then another transformer to go into the amplifer.

Can anyone say for sure, this would cause significant signal degradation? If so, I will buy a 300 ohm wire from Radio Shack.
post #55 of 2383
It depends on the quality of the transformers.

I tried doing the opposite with hardware from Home Depot once in order to ensure that ground loops were not a factor in some issues I was having with reception.

Dropped my signal strength on WNYW-DT and WCBS-DT from around 44-49% according to my MyHD tuner card to <25% at all times, usually only 9% or so. (i.e. barely any signal lock, unwatchable.)

I would STRONGLY reccomend minimizing loss as much as possible before the preamp - i.e. buy some twinlead or scrounge it from elsewhere in the house like I did.

Note that strong channels can potentially overload the preamp, so be careful if you live near New Brunswick. WNJB on Channel 58 is running more power than your average PBS station. (1320 kW - Comparable to the Philly analogs and significantly more than the NYC analogs according to www.100000watts.com) I haven't had amp overload issues when running the 3041DSB followed with a 12 dB distribution amp, but when I tried upgrading the dist amp I did, even with an antenna pointed away from NB. If New Brunswick is close to you or in the antenna beamline, it could overload the 3041. Good way to test is to look at channel 58 - In my case the video was completely dead from the sync signals getting clipped. Eventually I'm going to build my own distribution amp with higher output capability than the dist amp I tried. (The max ratings of +56 dBmV for the CM amps translates to approx. +13 dBm, which is the rating of a MiniCircuits MAR-series MMIC. MCL makes another series rated at +18 dBm.)
post #56 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Beware: LONG!!!

Well, I tried hooking up the CM 3041DSB this afternoon....and she didn't give me anything to write home about. Didn't improve my signal at all. On the contrary, like Pabuwal's experience, it made 'em worse!

While I was up there I tried "Tweaking" my direction a bit to see if that improved anything. A twist here and a nudge there didn't get me anything extra picture wise, but I had the wife on the other end of the cell phone watching the meter on each Philly digital local so I knew where a good spot would be.

Maybe someone can offer a thought on just WHAT my problem(S) is/are. I even added another 5 feet of mast on to see if that improved my signals...no luck. The strengths I had WITHOUT the 5 foot mast were the same when I DID put the 5 foot mast on (bringing the antenna height to around 9-10 feet above roof level (I have a ranch style home)

Strengths:

KYW was rock solid no matter how much tweaking I did---unless I turned it 20-30 degrees in either direction then I went from 100-0.

UPN (57.1) was the same thing. Rock solid. Steady.

WCAU is dead as a door nail!

WPVI---with tweaking I got the strength level to go from a 9 to a 27. But that was it. Not lockable though. Again, even WITH the 5 foot of masting it was still a 27. Yet, this is the same channel that a few nights ago I had a STEADY 56 or so on and was able to watch. Same thing happened Thursday night I believe. Haven't tried it yet this pm yet.

WTXF bumped to a 24 with some tweaking. Still no steady lock though. Same thing when I had it on the mast

WB out of Philly (not sure of call sign---17.1) was only able to hop up to about 20 with some tweaking. No lock.

I also swung the 4228 around towards NY and picked up WCBS at 100 strength. Solid. Big time. Also picked up WNYW (Fox) at about 50 or so. Steady lock. ABC/NBC were dead, 0 on the meter. WB was at a 2 or so. UPN at a 5 to 10.

So, that's where I"m at. I'm going to order the CM 7775, since it seems to be for UHF, has a low DB noise ratio, has a 75 ohm connection...AND Paul hooked one up on his own 4228 and had positive results.

I keep telling myself...trial and error, trial and error.

I had posted a thread earlier today under CM 4228 heading just to find out basically HOW that thing/bowtie/UHF antennas work. That's where I'm at now. I've read up on how digital signals travel and UHF signals as well. But, I'm at the point now where I'm getting consummed by the need to figure out HOW to get the locals I'm able to get (within reason). That and the fact that the little lady is KILLING me over the fact that I can't get NBC from either direction

Further thoughts?
post #57 of 2383
Jaypb,

Thanks - you just saved me a trip to Lowes tomorrow. Sorry to hear about your results, but since your results before you started were the same as mine, I am going to assume that addinf that preamp is going to have the same reults for me as well.

2 cell phones - thats a great idea ! When I was "tweaking" my CM 4228 in the attic, I borrowed the baby monitor from my 3 yr olds room. My wife was downstairs monitoring the signal, yelling up to me in the attic - i of course could not talk to her.

Look at the bright side - At least you had a great day to be outside, it was only 45 but it sure felt like 65.

Gary
post #58 of 2383
PS

Let me know how u make out with the 7775.
Thanks again for all the valuable information....

Gary
post #59 of 2383
Jay,
Sorry about your disappointing day, but Gary's right- great day to be on the roof! As noted earlier, the 7775 amp made a big difference for me, and I'm about 70 miles as the crow flies from both Philly and NYC (though I get nothing out of NYC). My house is about 800 feet above sea level and my house is 2 stories, so I may have better elevation than you. Still, if the equipment works here in hilly NW Jersey, I gotta believe it will be golden for you in the Central part of the state.
Paul
post #60 of 2383
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
2 cell phones - thats a great idea ! When I was "tweaking" my CM 4228 in the attic, I borrowed the baby monitor from my 3 yr olds room. My wife was downstairs monitoring the signal, yelling up to me in the attic - i of course could not talk to her.

Look at the bright side - At least you had a great day to be outside, it was only 45 but it sure felt like 65.

Gary

Actually, I took the cell phone idea off another thread I had read about in recent weeks.

And, the weather...yeah, I was lucky. Happily *most* of the snow melted by the time I got up there. And the sun was shining, so that was a plus! Now, if I can JUST get all those people who stare at you when they drive by to NOT do that, things would be soooo much easier
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Local HDTV Info and Reception
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › Local HDTV Info and Reception › Central New Jersey - OTA