Kansas City, MO - HDTV - Page 12

I don't know what all it is and I guess it seems that many of the stations don't either, but basically it is the stations ID info, the time of day and program guide info. Some tuners only use the PSIP to tune in the digital channels and if the PSIP info isn't correct they won't tune in the channel.

Follow this link for PSIP info:

http://www.nab.org/scitech/psip/default.asp

Most boxes up until now only use the channel mapping feature of PSIP (36 = 38-1). Then the box gets all of the other programming and etc. info from D* or E*.

The Samsung 165 is OTA only and it is one of the first to use all of the PSIP features coming from the broadcast stations. However, it is VERY touchy. If ANYTHING is set up wrong, the box can't tune in the station.

PSIP needs to be taken more seriously by the stations. For example, it is 10:50 PM on 8-14-03 right now. But if I am tuned to KCTV5 they are on 12:19 PM on 8-16-03. This totally makes the on screen guide and firewire timer recording features of this box useless. FWIW, 9, 19, and 29 have the correct time. 62 was screwed up back when they were actually on the air.

You know, if analog 62 was down they would be working around the clock to get it back up. But no, little digital 47 has been down for quite a while now. Obviously, they could care less about digital TV and I wonder if we will ever have HD WB in KC.

The link that Hdtimmy pointed out is a good introduction to PSIP and what it does.

The part that appears to be affecting some of our STBs is summed up in this excerpt: "If broadcasters do not include properly encoded PSIP data in their DTV signals, receivers may not correctly identify and tune to the station. Therefore, it is vital that all broadcasters understand PSIP and include the data in their DTV stations signals."

In talking with the engineer at KSMO last week, he indicated that they didn't realise that there was a problem with their signal until he started getting calls from HD STB owners asking what was going on. The STBs that they have at the station to monitor the off-air signal (an RCA DTC-100 and a Samsung that I forget that model number of) weren't having any issues, so it was news to them when the calls started rolling in. Also, many folks with other STBs aren't having any issues with either KSMO or KMCI's signal. Which shows why we need to call the stations if we are having signal issues to see if they are aware of them.

The KSMO engineering staff seemed to be honestly concerned about the fact that some STBs weren't getting the signal and mentioned that they were in the process of getting some new equipment that should correct the PSIP issues (as was mentioned in an earlier post in this thread). Since they have an analog equivalent on the air and other STBs are still seeing the digital broadcast, this may not have been the biggest priority for them but they do seem to be working toward getting a signal out that everyone's HD STB can see. Since I (we) can't seem to get a response out of anyone at KCMI, I don't know what they are doing to become more visible.

Here is the link for the KMCI antenna on channel 36. FCC filing . As you can see, they are having to prevent interference to the east, most likely to KOMU-DT in Columbia.

I get KMBC at 100% most of the time. Then it just drops off for no reason and then back to 100%. Of course the pic and sound suffer.
Anyone else have this or is it my antenna etc.?

Also I have a Sony and Samsung DirecTV receiver and on the sat signal from both the sound drops out for ~1 minute when on the local stations.
Anyone else have this?

I am experiencing no problems with KMBC-DT. Even stays up during heavy thunderstorms with no problems.

Regarding KSMO-DT, I am still unable to receive it with my Sony SAT-HD200. Was receiving perfectly prior to the 'reset'. Sent an e-mail to their engineering group with all the pertinent information I could provide (location, receiver, antenna, etc). Never got an acknowledgement. Is there a specific pipe through which such information should be sent?

Regarding KMCI-DT, I'm having no problems at all. Judging by that antenna pattern map, it looks like reception problems to the east of Kansas City are by design.

Wow, I didn't recall the antenna for KMCI-36 being that directional. But, even at 5-10% field strength coming off the back, that's still 25-50 kW ERP. Compare that to KSMO-47, which is transmitting 9kW on an STA, and I'm still getting over 90% from them at 22 miles (in my attic). I still think it's a PSIP issue (for both stations). Hope KSHB has its act together when it finally debuts.

Brad

I don't know of a specific "pipe" by which to get information to them, my contact with them has been via phone and they seemed good about taking down information similar to what you have provided them with. So I'm not sure why you haven't heard back from them to at least acknowledge that they received your information.

Maybe they're too busy putting in the new piece of equipment that will resolve all of our problems...

...hopefully it is an HD encoder, instead of this SD crap.

I received a response when I e-mailed programming@wb62.com. I kept it short and sweet and put "TO ENGINEERING" in the subject line.

Michael, can you correlate the KMBC dropout with anything going on in your house at the time? Like A/C kicking on or washing machine? KMBC is on VHF channel 7 which is a little more prone to electrical interference than UHF.

OR, if it only happens when it is windy, your antenna could be swaying a little causing multipath.

Check all connections!! One time, my ANT IN connector had loosened enough that when someone pounded on the floor (playing with dog), my digital stations would drop out and come back.

I also have a problem with KMBC-DT. I have the Samsung TS-160 and I receive the station's signal at 100%, but the audio will drop out periodically. This is not an effect of any outside interference and my antenna is mounted in the attic. I don't have this problem with any of the other digital stations.

KMBC-DT has been a good signal for me here in Oak Grove using my VHF/UHF attic antenna. Of course I have a direct line of sight to the KMBC tower.

hdtimmy, I will keep that in mind next time and see.

Now thats on the OTA side. You guys don't have any sound drop when watching the local stations thru the sat feed?

Thanks for the replies

Not on satellite or cable, just OTA for me.

Thats weird cause my sony and samsung receivers do that so I dont think its related to my set top boxes.
Hmm?

Could this be the diplexers causing problems?
Do you guys have a separate cable for antenna or combine and then split?

Thanks again.

I am combining signals from three separate antennas (uhf-west, uhf-east, high-vhf-east) and then using diplexers to piggyback the antenna signals on the directv cables. No audio dropouts.

One thing to look for on KMBC-DT dropout problems... back in January, I had a number of dropout problems on KMBC-DT (only). I found them to coincide with the startup and shutdown of my HVAC blower, and with the actuation of the solenoid associated with the water dispenser in my refrigerator. Back then I was using a single Terk TV-55 (bidirectional) antenna. Apparently the frequency range for channel 7 is susceptible to such interference. You may want to look for similar sources in your environment.

After the April SAT-HD200 firmware upgrade, and after changing over to using the 2 uhf and 1 vhf (all preamplied) antennas, the problems went away. Whether this is the result of higher signal strenth, or of the directional antennas not picking up the interference, or something else entirely, I'm not sure.

I initially tried using a line conditioning UPS on the HD receiver and Terk TV-55 preamp to cut out the interference. It didn't have any effect. So I think the interference was being picked up by the antenna OTA...not getting introduced via the AC.

I've occasionally had problems with KMBC-DT when our washing machine motor starts, also. It seems to be something you have to live with, with VHF.

Anybody heard anything from KSHB??????

Brad

Man, I am having a difficult time.

Ok, trying to just get KMBC-DT (Digi Chan 7). Want to watch some Monday night football.

anyway, I have recently moved to Independence, from Lawrence. I have the same exact setup going in Independence that I had in Lawrence (same equipment just moved) and I can't get any signal at all. I got KMBC-DT in Lawrence really well. Nothing here. Does KMBC-DT turn off during the day?

I then tried all the other DT channels, and nothing. Not one thing on any of the channels. Out in Lawrence I got all kinds of reception, I'd get 31, 18, 7, and 24.

Anyone in Independence with suggestions?

KMBC-DT and KCWE-DT generally run from 11am to 11pm, although they've been running until midnight recently.

Have you tried tuning to an analog equivalent to see what kind of signal you're getting? Looking at the analog equivalent on a regular TV can often be a good way to tell if you're getting a signal at all. If you're seeing a lot of ghosting, you instantly know that you have multipath problems.

There's obviously not a one-to-one relationship here since digital channels are generally running lower power than analog right now, but it was a great troubleshooting tool for me.

KMBC-DT 7 (remap to 9-1) and KCWE-DT 31 (remap to 29-1) both are on the air from noon to midnight at present.

Good advice about getting your antenna adjusted using the analog to peak up on as they come from the same tower.

Thanks for the information on air conditioner blowers, solenoids pulling in, washing machine motors and all the other things that cause the stream to unlock in the receiver. My brother found that lights can also block reception of digital signals.

Anybody out there have the new 351 from Samsung? How's it working?

bshockley- I moved from Independence MO to Oak Grove MO last year. I did live at 40 hwy and 291/470 interchange down in a valley. I received all the digital OTA channels including KMBC-DT 07. I did have an outdoor antenna.

Well, I just needed to move my antenna out towards a window. I had to get another 10 feet of coax, but I got it. I was just impatient. Getting it now at about 70% reception which is great (usually anything above 40% locks in without dropouts).

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've been having problems with the local ABC digital reception. Mostly it shows up with sporting events....digital break up. My anntena is in the attic and picks up the analog just fine. Do I need a good/great signal booster to help with the signal? Does local ABC broadcast at low signal strength? Could it be my Zenith 1080 directv receiver?

ANy suggestions would be appreciated.

Ron

I'm having similar problems with an attic antenna. I have an amplifier on it, but it is just too inconsistent in picking up a good signal. Unless someone has a suggestion I'm going to move the antenna outside. I'd rather not do that, but I think that's my only choice. BTW, I'm in southern Overland Park and the antenna is a Winegard HD7210D. Anyone had luck getting HD signals with any type of antenna that attaches to the satellite dish?

I'm at W. 61st and State Line (couple minutes south of the Plaza). My antenna is a Winegard tooo, but unsure of the HD model. I'm really hoping this is a signal strength issue with the local affiliate.

Ron

PS: I spoke with Edward King from engineering this morning. They broadcasting at full strength. From our discussions, I should have thought of this first....switching the Zenith 790P switch on the back of the unit to see if passing through the naitive signal will make a difference. Also disconnecting the booster to see if I'm over amping the signal.

I have learned some important lessons last weekend with my attic antenna and my new outdoor rotor and amplified antenna. #1) Very little difference in signal strength between the outdoor or indoor attic antenna (0%-8%)and that is before I installed an amplifier on the outdoor antenna. This includes all Kansas City digital channels except DT-34. #2) Once I installed the amplifier on the outdoor antenna the signal strength went down on all Kansas City channels . So I swung the outdoor antenna around to the southeast and DT-15 out of Warrensburg is now a strong signal for me. The amplifier hurts local stations but helps long distance stations. #3) RG-6 shielded cable and a grounding block is a must to protect from RF interference. #4) KMBC-DT broadcast of the ABC football game last night in HDTV was one best signals I have ever seen.

I had one of those sat antennas and took it back to see if something else was better. From other post they have a bad rap here. I would get ABC at 100% but then it would drop out sometimes to 0. My sat dish was on the south side of the house and the OTA signals come from the north. Don't know if that contributed.

So I bought a Channel Master 3020 at Lowes and put it in my attic. Smokes that thing is huge and dirty, it takes up more space than I planned on. I just laid it down on the insulation for now. I get ABC at 70% but it only dropped out once so far, it was doing it often. I don't get as many stations yet. ABC, CBS, UPN.

So I guess I have to mount it, didn't come with mounting hardware. I thought from the box that it wasn't so directional?

Didnt know that about the grounding block. I thought it was just for lighting etc.
I run mine thru a monster box, maybe that hurts too?

Michael, Hang a small length of pipe from the ceiling of the attic and attach the antenna to the pipe with the u-clamp that comes with the antenna. Point the antenna toward the cluster of towers near downtown Kansas City. RG-6 shielded cable straight to the receiver and you are all set. Yes, the grounding block is a must for outdooor antennas to dissipate static electricity from wind blowing across the antenna and to provide a common ground for the antenna with the house.

Jeffdbs, thanks I will do that.
I was planning on using a diplexer, are those ok?
I see a huge range of price on those, is there a difference? RCA 6.00 upto 20.00.

It is always best to use separate RG-6 for the OTA antenna and the satellite or cable source. Separate cables no problems-one cable many problems. The neat thing about separate RG-6 RF shielded cables for each source of HDTV feed is no degrading of the signal.