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Grand Junction, CO - HDTV

post #1 of 409
Thread Starter 
I thought I'd start this thread since, digital signals are becoming available for Western Colorado, mainly Grand Junction. The local ABC(KJCT) went live with a digital signal, not up to HD, yet a couple of months ago. I get a 100% signal lock via a Mitsu SR-HD5 receiver. Supposedly the local NBC(KKCO) went live to, but have yet to pick them up. There is no direct email to their engineering dept. and you get a general we are live on DT-12 if you ask for them. Feel free to give any input.
post #2 of 409
According to TITAN TV, CBS(KREX-DT) goes HD today at 11:00 with the Colts game. Also FOX latter on. I called and there is no engineer there today so I'd be amazed if they actually go HD today. The right channel has been out since they started broadcasting their digital signal about a month ago.
post #3 of 409
No HDTV in western Colorado. Titan will fix their site.
post #4 of 409
1. Channel 2, KREX-DT, the CBS affiliate, went live at the end of September with a horribly digitized 480i signal, and get this- NO RIGHT CHANNEL FOR OVER A MONTH! The picture has improved slightly recently, but I guess they're still not ready to leap into the stereo age.

2. Channel 7, KJCT-DT, the ABC affiliate, went live way back in March, has a very clean 480i picture and clean audio.

3. Channel 12, KKCO-DT, the NBC affiliate, the second channel to go live sometime last summer, has great sound, strong signal and great 480i video. Rumour has it that this will be the first Grand Junction OTA HDTV broadcaster, possibly before the end of the year, but don't bet on it. Also broadcasting an incredibly funny subchannel of people running around killing anything that moves in the woods, called "hunting -2".

4. Channel 15, KFQX, the Fox affiliate, went live September 29th, the same day the co-owned CBS affiliate came up. The sound is downright nasty, very distorted, just about unlistenable. Broadcasting in good old 480i 4:3. The engineer said they might start broadcasting in glorious Fox-vision by the end of the year. We'll see.

Rocky Mountain PBS has filed yet another delay with the FCC- they were due to go live Nov 1, 2003. Their staff tells me their DTV roll-out is right on schedule! I can't believe I just spent 15 minutes writing a post that nobody will ever read.
post #5 of 409
Thread Starter 
Don't worry audiomagnate, I'll read it, even though I new the info already. It's a shame I live in the Redlands area and cannot get KKCO or KFQX signal with it just flying over the top of me from the monument. I always get a great picture out of KJCT and KREX is improving the last week or so for me. Hopefully they'll keep pushing for an HD rollout.
post #6 of 409
Grand Junction, Colorado DT stations:

L 2 CBS KREX-DT 00.8kW (live)
E 7 ABC KJCT-DT 09.7kW (live)
W 12 NBC KKCO-DT 10.8kW (live)
W 15 FOX KFQX-DT 71.5kW (live)
E 17 PBS KRMJ-DT 50.0kW
E 43 UPN KGJT-DT ??????

Transmitters: L=local, E=Grand Mesa, W=Black Ridge (above Redlands)

I live near Eastgate Shopping Center, where the directions of Grand Mesa and Black Ridge are fairly close to 180ยบ apart. The KREX tower is a few miles to the west. Due to the design & structure of the townhome buildings here, my best choice for locating an antenna is in the attic. Since all the DT transmitters lie in two general directions, I'm ruling out an antenna rotor, and considering either one bidirectional antenna, or two highly directional antennas. A bidirectional antenna would be one like the Channel Master CM-2001 which receives VHF signals from the front and rear, and UHF signals from the front only. Another bidirectional possibility is the Winegard GS-2000 Sensar RV antenna. TitanTV's antenna selector recommends the Antennacraft AC-9 for my location, but this antenna is bidirectional only for VHF lowband (channels 2-6).

What about two antennas? I saw an interesting statement on the KFMB website that says:

"...mix the signals from the two antennas. Put balun transformers at each antenna, then run short pieces of RG-6/U coaxial cable to a splitter that you will be using now as a combiner. Run coax down to your receiver, and you should get a good signal on all local DTV stations. The very idea of doing this is new and would have been considered bad practice with analog signals"

Why is it not also bad practice with digital signals? Digital transmissions still use an analog carrier signal, so could I really get away with combining two directional VHF+UHF antennas in my attic, pointed in opposite directions, and not get any interference ghosting while watching the DT stations? What about signals bouncing off of the opposite mountain and getting picked up by the other antenna? Would I have to use channel traps or filters? If I did go with combining two antennas, then I would want two highly directional ones; one candidate is the Winegard "Ghost Killer".
post #7 of 409
I live near the intersection of 1st and Patterson, and a roof-mounted AC-9 works perfectly. I'm using a Fusion HDTV card. It works best with the end with the short crossmembers oriented towards the monument (west).
post #8 of 409
Sonywaist or Audiomagnate,
I have a nephew living in Grand Junction and he recently purchased a new HDTV. Can you tell me if KREX broadcast the playoff game this past Sunday in high definition? According to antennaweb.org he is only 6 miles from the transmitter so unless there is a mountain or large building in the path he should be able to receive the Superbowl via OTA if KREX broadcasts it.
Thanks for any help that you can give me on this one.
post #9 of 409
No,and they ignore my emails asking when they plan to go HDTV.
post #10 of 409
Welcome, guys, to the wonderful frustration that is HDTV OTA!
post #11 of 409
Thanks for your reply. That's a real bummer! I'm assuming that you don't have a cable company that might provide the local CBS in HD? So it sounds like he's out of luck unless he drives to a sportsbar in another city.
Man, thanks again and I feel your pain !
post #12 of 409

Looks like they are building new facilities, that's what's the hold up, but if you notice the new towers in the background, they are working on it..
post #13 of 409
Well, its 5 months later nothing has changed. Still nothing from PBS, even though they have been adverising their digital station on the station ID for the analog station for two months. I'm getting Directv HD.
post #14 of 409
I'm Googled out trying to find some estimate for KRMJ-DT 17 going live.
Are they going to be broadcasting from Black Ridge (west of city)?

Still lousy audio from KFQX-DT 15-1.

I found KREX-DT on 15-2 but don't know how long it has been there, or its transmitter power.

Are all the local DT still never more than 480i?

I went with a Channel Master 4228 8-bay antenna in the attic pointed west. Screen removed to make it bi-directional. The receiver is a LG LST-4200A. This combination does not bring in KREX 2-1.
post #15 of 409
Go to KJCT's website, click on "What's on TV" click on the KJCT-DT button and low an behold, HDTV OTA has arrived in Grand Junction. Just kidding. The link is Titan based, and wrong, of course.

When I called to notify the station of the problem, a shrew in "engineering" kept saying, "That's not our web page" and "I don't have anything to do with that" and "we have DTV not HDTV" etc. This valley doesn't DESERVE OTA HDTV!!

To back this up, I've done some casual statistical research, and found that one out of every 5 cars on the road in Grand Junction is a 1979 silver blue Buick Century driven by a woman with matching hair color. Shocking but true.

BTW, I've had the DirecTV HD package for months now and couldn't be happier, especially now that BravoHD appeared. US Open in HD.
post #16 of 409
Are there any DXers from around here able to get real OTA HD from another market?
post #17 of 409
Hi, I'm getting ready to buy my 1st HDTV but am concerned about programing. From your comments I gather that there will be no HDTV in GJT for at least a year and probably more. I don't have cable access so guess satellite is the only option for me? Any other suggestions? Thanks,
post #18 of 409
Thread Starter 
I have switched from D* to our local cable company Bresnan and picked up their HD package. The reasons being it makes my cable internet cheaper and since I had no phone land line, I could only have one receiver.

The low down on the service is they supplied a Motorola DCT6200 cable box. The HD channels available are ESPN-HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery-HD and HBO-HD. Hopefully that will increase. My installer said he's been adding about one new unit per day, so the demand is there.

So far the HD PQ has been very good, and the SD isn't nearly as good as D*.
post #19 of 409
HDTV OTA in Grand Junction? We'll see:

I talked to the engineer at KKCO today, he said there are no plans for HDTV at KKCO (NBC), and that HDTV is pretty much the same as 480i anyway, just widescreen.

This just in from from Trisha Bentz Kendall
Viewer Services Coordinator, Rocky Mountain PBS:

"Hello Kevin,
KRMJ-DT, digital channel 17, is due to go online soon. This signal will be broadcast from the Black Ridge site, west of town. The projected date for KRMJ-DT to go on air is February 2005. As you know, the transition to digital is a highly complex and expensive process. We are doing are (sic) best to meet the extended FCC deadlines.
Thank you,"

From Trisha back in April, 2004:

"Hello Kevin,
I spoke with our engineering director and learned that we will start digital
TV broadcasting in Grand Junction sometime this summer. We are having a new building and tower built at a new site known as Black Ridge, west of town. We are also going to move our analog TV transmitter to Black Ridge at that time. High Definition TV (HDTV) broadcasting over the DTV channel should start at about the same time, but it is contingent on finishing buildout of a digital microwave system to get the HDTV signal to Grand Junction.
Depending on where you live, reception from Black Ridge may be better than
the current site at Land's End on Grand Mesa.

Thank you,
Trisha Bentz Kendall
Viewer Services Coordinator"

Note that there is no longer any reference to HDTV in the new message.
post #20 of 409
KKCO was just purchased by Gray Television. I emailed them as asked when we might get HD programing. I received the following response:

KKCO currently does broadcast a High Definition Television Signal that contains NBC's HD programming. Please contact the station to learn how you can receive that signal.

Jim Ryan


I also called the station and was told that they are broadcasting HD programing. Is this true? I am in the process of purchasing a HD set and am interested in what HD programing is available.
post #21 of 409
To answer your question, there is still NO OTA HDTV available in Grand Junction. You can get a few channels from Bresnan, the D*TV HD package w/o networks, and whatever dish is offering. There are only two ways to receive HD networks in Grand Junction:

1. You would have had to have obtained waivers from the local network affiliates (difficult, at best) before the law changed Jan 1 2005 and then subscribed to Distant Network Services from D*. Then you are then "grandfathered" in and can get east and west coast HD stations, or

2. You could have "moved" to a "white" area (no watchable OTA reception of any kind) before the law change and subscribed to DNS.

That's why all those expensive HD sets at the Ale House will be showing the Super Bowl in stretched SD on Sunday.

Those statements from the folks at KKCO just prove how unbelievably ignorant some people in this valley are about HDTV. Even the CFO of the station doesn't know the difference between 480i DTV and HD. At least their engineer, knows there is a difference, he just doesn't think it's very important.

I wonder if the sales people at CC are telling the people buying HD sets for the big game this weekend that it's going to look like crapola on their brand new sets.
post #22 of 409
I called KKCO again and talked to the station engineer. You are correct, not a clue. Thanks for the above information - pretty much what I knew. Bresnan has told me they will be "hopefully" adding HD content "soon". I have sent the following email to Grey Television CFO, Jim Ryan, we'll see what kind of response I get:

I hope you knew what you were buying in Grand Junction. While KKCO is broadcasting a digital signal, they are not broadcasting any HD programing. I just talked to the engineer who said that they "might" start in a year, but that cost were high, NBC didn't have much HD content and who could tell.

I would encourage you to make the broadcast of HD a priority here in Grand Junction. A lot of people are buying sets capable of displaying HD content and for you to be first would be a major coup.
post #23 of 409
I sent him an even nastier one:


I understand you are telling people that KKCO broadcasts in HDTV. That is not correct. KKCO broadcasts DTV, not HDTV. There is a HUGE difference. The minimum standard for HDTV is 720p, NBC's standard is 1080i, and you are broadcasting 480i (same as 55 year old NTSC) over KKCO-DT, channel 12. The misinformation being spread by you and your customer service staff is leading people to purchase very expensive HDTV ready sets, and then finding out later that they have to purchase expensive HD satellite receivers and HD packages or Bresnan HD cable service to receive any HD at all, and that no network HDTV is available in the valley. I know this because I am one your misinformed staff's "victims." Maybe you guys could hold a meeting where the difference between Digital TeleVision (DTV) and HDTV (High Definition TeleVision) is explained.

post #24 of 409
schaffer970, you have PM
post #25 of 409
KREX is the worst. I talked with their manager this past week and he told me that we were "silly to buy HDTV sets" since it was way in the future. They're just after the most money they can milk from the current technology and since they're are relatively few of us who have HDTV's now what would be their motivation? Federal law or the FCC? Yes, but who has the political clout (money) to influence Congress. Not me - just enough to buy my HDTV.

Unless I'm wrong we're probably going to get network HD over Direct TV first. Once their new satellites are up and running (1st 2 by year end) Denver will have all HD locals. Of course one would need to 'move' to somewhere out of the GJ-Montrose DMA. Given the attitude of the local stations that seems like a viable option.
post #26 of 409
audiomagnate, you have PM.
post #27 of 409
Well guys, the Super Bowl was FANTASTC in HD and 5.1, especially Paul's "Live and Let Die". I switched back to 389 a few times to see what the other 99,999 people in the valley were watching (yech!) and everybody in the room screamed "STOP DOING THAT!!! We get it."
post #28 of 409
Hello Mr. Sweeney,

I spoke with our chief engineer and he said we aren't going to be able to get KRMJ digital on air in February due to delays in getting contractors out there to complete the work. However, we're very hopeful we can complete the installation in March. We are doing our best to get this up and running as soon as we can.

Thank you for your interest in Rocky Mountain PBS,

Trisha Bentz Kendall
Viewer Services Coordinator
post #29 of 409
I got this today from Trisha at KRMJ:

Hello Kevin,
The crew is on site this week to complete installation of KRMJ-DT. There will be an official turning on ceremony in May, but viewers will be able to watch Channel 17 after this week.
Thank you,
post #30 of 409
Wow...I really feel for you guys over there. And I thought we had it bad with our ecoterrorist...err...homeowners on the mountain over here in Denver...
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