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RGBHV over shielded Cat 5 success! - Page 9

post #241 of 524
Here's a tip if you are getting severe ghosting....Connect the grounds!

Thumper suggested doing it for 'extra bang' on page 2, but it my case it made the difference between a crap cable and a very nice one.

The first cat5 cable I made worked great. My soldering was bad, so the connectors failed from heavy use (this was an extension cable, so it was very mobile). I decided to start completely over with new connectors, and that resulted in severe ghosting.

5 or so ghosts on an XGA signal kind of bad. Nothing I did would fix it either (and this was the exact same cable that was perfect before). I was starting to get stressed because I already committed myself to using this cable in my HT since I had such good results before.

Well, I decided to try jumpering the grounds to see if that did anything. I connected R-,G-,B- and Gnd together with an extra piece of the naked shield wire and put it all back together. I only did this on one end of the cable. The other end doesn't have the jumper wire.

The results were excellent! That jumper took the '5 ghosts on XGA' cable to a 'barely any ghosts on 1600x1200' cable. An XGA signal is now practically perfect.

Jumper the grounds to get rid of the ghosts!

Brian
post #242 of 524
halljb,

Jumper all the grounds on both ends for even better results. Relying on the video card or projector's internal circuit board for combining grounds is the most certain way to get poor results.

The new dirt cheap CAT5E VGA connector I've been working on with the AMP Corp. has all the grounds internally connected. Should be nationally available anyday as part of the "SL" connectivity series.

Thumper
post #243 of 524
Thanks for the tip! I'll jumper the other connector soon.

That connector you're working on...is it HD15 on one end and female RJ45 on the other so you can take a stock sheilded cat5 cable and just plug it in?

That would be sweet.

Brian
post #244 of 524
If form factor is not an issue on really long runs, for $28.00 would this be a better solution over the Cat5e due to the 75 Ohm concern: http://www.cablewholesale.com/catalo...rvgacables.htm
item number 10H1-20150.

This is a 50' SVGA cable with HD15 male to male ends using coax (which is designed to nail the 75 ohms perfectly). They have a 25' for only $14.00.

I realize you will miss out on the fun & excitement of soldering your own connections...but you could always buy the cable, cut off the ends, and solder them back on again if you really feel the need. I just want to get this thing setup (after researching this site for over two years and finally dropping the hammer on the 5500) and start watching stuff.

Any thoughts? Did I missing anything - It did take over an hour to read through this monster thread from beginning to end - I'm sure I could have forgotten something in there...
post #245 of 524
Janusinc,

Longer runs was not the only reason the Cat5 was proposed. It is easier to feed through walls, etc., without the HD15 connectors attached. The RJ45 connectors can be easily plugged and unplugged to switch between different displays, etc.

Randy D
post #246 of 524
Randy,

I understood the switching ease and the form factor issue - getting this stuff through walls, but has it been established that Cat5e will perform better over longer runs (~35 - 50 feet) as compared to coax cabling. Coax was designed for the 75 ohms and very long runs (as I understand it).

However, I have seen a lot of installs with long runs of coax (usually Cable Service) where there is a lot of ghosting. Is this due to long runs or other issues?
post #247 of 524
Tried to build this cable without success.

Not due to the theory, but I found I lack much in soldering ability. What a mess one can make of a HD15 connector!

I need the small form factor to pass a cable up one level.


Leaves some options, and a couple of questions...


1) Order 30' of shielded cable with RJ45 connectors attached, and the new Amp converter. Any word on the availability of the converter?

2) Build a RJ45 to HD15 converter by modifying a RJ45 to HD9, it was mentioned in thread, did anyone try it?

3) Try HD15 crimp connectors. Can anyone comment on the crimp type of connector. It appears you crimp the pins on the wire then insert into the head. Its mentioned that special tools are needed, any links or instructions?

4) Learn to solder, any links to a solder 101 page!
post #248 of 524
Why are you doing that? Black Box (amoung others) have been sending video down cat5 for awhile now;
Here is a little info on it;
* Verify your order-consult with a live Tech now!
* Sends both stereo audio and video to two or eight remote speakers and monitors.
* Operates over CAT5 cable.
* Supports VGA video up to 1280 x 1024 at 60 to 85 Hz.
* Sends signals up to 500 feet.
* No software required.
* Compact size.
* Can be cascaded to support even more speakers and monitors.
* Differential signaling provides protection from EMI/RFI interference
post #249 of 524
Thread Starter 
I am going to have to do a summary at some point...

David,

Many people have done this with NO boxes at all. At 1280*1024, I can easilly go 40 feet.

Soldering ability and differences in cable types seems to be the biggest problem here. Solder cup terminals are designed to be easy but only if decent soldering practices are utilized. Different cable types could be the other problem.

YMMV.

-Mr. Wigggles
post #250 of 524
Another way to do this without soldering is to use a custom Rj45 to HD15 adapter. Black box as well as most all cable manufacturers can make custom adapters for you (I use them all the time, beats soldering in a pinch). Check them out at www.blackbox.com and get the Cable & Connectivity Catalog and check out the Custom Adapters section.

Of course another alternative is to go to technical school and learn how to solder??
post #251 of 524
Hi all,
I would like to make a connection between my NEC MT1045 which has HD-15 input (which can be used as HD-component video input) and my progressive DVD player which has component video output

So at the HD-15 end, I'll connect the CAT5 as MrWigggles' description. But at the component end (3 rca plugs), how can I connect to have sync_on_green? Which sync should I use ? H or V ?

In other word, which pin # on HD-15 should be connected to prong and sleeve of three R, B, G component end?

Thank you
Thuan
post #252 of 524
Thanks for the feedback, love to see your summary Mr. Wigggles.

I think there is a real market here for a proven cable and adapters, wish I could order them today.

I called the company mentioned and they do not have a prebuilt RJ45 to HD15 adapter, but could custom build one, I'm checking on the price. Of course it may not work due to shielding issues. I'd like to find a proven solution.

The pictured black box product solution is very expensive, over $700 US, for sender and receiver.

I'm really just looking for a low cost way to pass a cable with a XGA signal down one level and drill the smallest opening possible. I do not want to cut an opening for a HD15 head.

I love to be able to buy a proven prebuilt cable with small form factor connector like RJ45 and attach them to a proven HD15 adapter.

Does it exist?


***
Another possibilty just came to mind. To use HD15/BNC breakout cables and link them together with couplers. That way a hole would only have to fit the size of the BNC connector, and pass them through one at a time.
***
post #253 of 524
It is just some balunds that are needed? From what I know about balunds (which is not much) they are not that complex to make. Why are these Component or RGB twisted pair balund systems so expensive?
post #254 of 524
OK, alright already

Next week I'll post the new AMP connector assembly part # and photos we've developed. All you'll need to terminate a shielded CAT5E cable to the connector is a knife to strip off the outer jacket, your fingers to push it together and a pair of cutters to trim the excess. Thats it! Perfect HD-15 connections...its even color coded. The performance is very good; better at 40' than our reference RGBHV/5-core quad-shielded cable (won't mention the brand but it costs over $400). At 40' 1600x1200@75 is darn near perfect...its extremely difficult to see the difference from a standard 6' VGA cable even from a few inches from the screen.

I won't get into any arguements here with EEs on cable/hardware impedance/mismatches. Suffice it to say the charactaristic 100 ohm twisted pair impedance of short haul CAT5 when unbalanced at the connectors [properly] yields an impedance approximately between 71 and 74 ohms which is well within the tolerance limits of 75 ohm source/load hardware.

BTW, I don't recommend using RJ45 [shielded] connectors in the loop. For best performance the link should have as few transitions as possible. I prefer the Cat5/VGA connector being inserted directly into the projector input and at the source with a simple gender changer (point-to-point). The cable exits the Cat5/VGA connector at a right angle which means you only need a little over 1" total clearance (including changer) from the PJ to something like a hush box wall.

More to come...

Thumper
post #255 of 524
Found a pdf regarding baluns.

Could anyone comment on the VGA2 and the bandwidth, claims standard cat 5 is all that is needed.

http://www.intelix.com/library/data_sheets/balun_ds.pdf

Here's the support for the VGA2, even has the wiring, and suggests using STP..

http://www.intelix.com/library/manua...alunManual.pdf

Another, looks good for XGA to 250ft, notes if PC and monitor are grounded only UTP is needed...

http://www.almexltd.com/nhc/500010.pdf

$120 CND
post #256 of 524
JackLT,

These work very well for medium and long haul apps. I've installed the Intelix along with a few other makes and they all work reasonably well (great for getting the signal around a convention center). But for short haul apps [typical HT] why would one want to soften the signal by reducing bandwidth with such a product?

And spend the extra $$?

And have to find a place to plug in the wall warts?

Thumper
post #257 of 524
Thanks Thumper, I look forward trying the AMP connector.

As far as the basic unpowered baluns (1 PC to 1 Monitor) are concerned, are they simply passing the raw signal over the cat 5 without any additional components besides the connectors?

If that's the case then for short runs if shielded cat5 and connectors are used wouldn't the picture be fine at XGA resolution?

I found them as low as $76US.


Here's a very good information link for anyone thinking of a balun:
http://www.muxlab.com/assets/files/a..._VGA_Balun.pdf

Also, if you need shielded cat5 it gives the Blackbox part numbers.
post #258 of 524
Hi all,
I'm still wait for response. I have whole weekend to build one. Please help
on my post at begin of this page.
Thanks
Thuan
post #259 of 524
Thuan,

I have a Dish 6000 with 3 connector component out. I use a standard HD15/5 BNC breakout cable with rca/bnc adapters.

I connect 3 of the breakout lines, the R G B leads to the 6000's component then HD15 to the Nec 150LT.

You can add to the lenght at either side via component cables or HD15.

That may not directly answer your question but it seems all you have to connect is the R G B and return lines into the projectors RGB/return lines and the NEC projector handles the rest.

jack
post #260 of 524
Quote:


Originally posted by Thumper
OK, alright already

Next week I'll post the new AMP connector assembly part # and photos we've developed. All you'll need to terminate a shielded CAT5E cable to the connector is a knife to strip off the outer jacket, your fingers to push it together and a pair of cutters to trim the excess. Thats it! Perfect HD-15 connections...its even color coded. The performance is very good; better at 40' than our reference RGBHV/5-core quad-shielded cable (won't mention the brand but it costs over $400). At 40' 1600x1200@75 is darn near perfect...its extremely difficult to see the difference from a standard 6' VGA cable even from a few inches from the screen.


More to come...

Thumper

Thumper,

I need to run Component not RBGHV. What do you recommend to do this? The amp connectors with break out cables? For this use would you still recommend shielded cat5 for this or is standard cat5e ok for component? I want to run ~80 - 100 feet from a Audio Authority Universal Distribution Amp model 985U. It would be much easier to run some 1 or 2 cat5 runs, I was thinking I would need to run at least 4 RG/6 or rg59 runs, (3 for component and one for SPDIF). Since I would need only 3 pair for video could I use the 4th pair for running the SPDIF, off of the break out cable?

Thoughts?
post #261 of 524
For those who are interested about running component on UTP cat5e.

I went to radio shack and bought some female RCA connectors. Attached them to an ~80ft coil of cat5e UTP. Picture looked just as good as it did through my 30ft rg6 runs. When I added the spdif on the 4th pair and that introduced noise on the picture. This was tested with a Hughes e86 and a JVC DVD player, attached to a 10ht projector.

Conclusion: You can run component video over cat5e, and the picture looks good. I ran 1080i and 480p with out problems. You can run spdif for the same distance but it causes noise on the picture if run over the same cable, so you will need to run a separate run of cat5e for the spdif. I would like to test the same configuration with Leviton RCA-110 connectors but I can't find them anywhere. If anyone knows where to find them please let me know.

Regards,

Brian
post #262 of 524
Does it make a difference whether the Cat 5 cable is stranded or solid core?
post #263 of 524
Thumper, you're killing me, when will we get the AMP part# and pics, and how shortly after your announcement will the product be actually available.

Anybody with a good place to order AMP connectors, Newark? or somewhere else?

I am looking to setup my projector in the next few weeks and the projector cabling is the next item on my todo list.

All the best,
Ricardo
post #264 of 524
I plan on making a 5bnc to 5bnc cat5e cable for my switcher to my projector. Which cable do i need to ground if it is needed at all.
post #265 of 524
I just went through the same thing...

Found that soldering the HD15 was too difficult, so thought of the BNC to BNC, you need 10 wires, cat5e has 8 and shielded has 9. You could just splice the grounds as needed.

I found a RBG cable with a small HD15 head and just drilled a hole. Perfect picture, no soldering. I used the Cat5 to run audio.

I'll try the new AMP connector for another run, when it arrives.
post #266 of 524
Back at the beginning of this thread was a brief discussion of the high cost of matrix switchers. Matrix switches allow the user to send one or more RGB (15 pin) input sources to one or more RGB (15 Pin) monitors. Since this threads inception, the cost of those switches has come down. If you want to have one display device switch 4 input sources Milestek.com has a KVM switch for $155.99. If you want to switch eight sources to 2 monitors its $778.96, and eight sources to 4 monitors is $986.96. Also Cat5 extenders are $229.

So these type switches may fit into your needs, especially if you want to send an HDTV boxes signal to several areas of your house, over shielded Cat5.

hermann
post #267 of 524
Last night I soldered my first HD15 connector. The first one I made was alright, learned a lot, then just snipped it off because I knew the second time around I would be a pro. I can see why that new AMP connector that Thumper was talking about will be a total lifesaver and really eliminate anybody's need to do this tedious soldering and stripping of tiny wires.

Little tips to help out with soldering a HD15:

* picked up Dsub 15 pin male connectors & hoods at radio shack
* bought "Helping Hands" vise from Radio Shack to help hold connector and wire, while my two hands held solder gun and solder
* used 0.032" solder from Radio Shack and
* I actually ordered Shielded Cat5 patch cords with ethernet connectors on the ends to the length I needed, this turned out to be cheaper than buying 100ft or 500ft of shielded Cat5 cable. I just cut off the shielded Cat5 jacks on the end and ended up with the 50ft of cable I needed.
* I had a small soldering iron from Radio Shack but I bought a new tip for it that had a sharp point. Get the smallest tip soldering gun you can at Radio shack if you don't have one, it's only $5-$10

1) start your soldering with the grounds in the middle tall row of pins
2) I twisted all the grounds together, soldered the twist, then I soldered the tips of the twisted grounds into their appropriate pin locations. This seemed to be easier than trying to jumper the pins together with a separate wire after all the grounds are in place.

I haven't had a chance to check up on my work yet, I'm still waiting on my HD stb, but will probably try my dreamcast VGA adapter with it.

Thanks to everyone on this thread for sharing all the info.

All the best,
Ricardo
post #268 of 524
Thread Starter 
It is quite often a misconception that you need the smallest tip possible to solder intricate parts. This is not the case. I use a medium size tip to solder with.

You always need good heat transfer in the soldering process that is the real key to good and quick solder joints.

I simply wanted to add that tidbit.

-Mr. Wigggles
post #269 of 524
Would these adapter combos work?

RJ45 to DB9-F and DB9-M to HDDB15-F and HDDB15-M to HDDB15-M

or

RJ45 to DB9-M and DB9-F to HDDB15-M

If so, is one better than the other?

Could the ground wires in the RJ45 adapter simply be stripped and twisted together?
post #270 of 524
Thread Starter 
Eric,

Simebody used those with very little success.

-Mr. Wigggles
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