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RGBHV over shielded Cat 5 success! - Page 2

post #31 of 524
My thanks to Thumper and Mr. Wigggles!

I put two 25' cables together today and they look great. Took me a while as my soldering skills are a bit rusty (about 30 years) but it was quite doable.

The 25' cable looked flawless viewing an HBO HD movie on an HD direct view. I did see some ringing when the two cables were hooked in series (50') but that was expected from Thumper's comments. (One of the cables has a female connector for connecting a BNC break-out cable.)

A couple of hours work saved about $350! Now maybe I can afford that Panny RP-91 DVD player.

Frank L
post #32 of 524
Quote:


Originally posted by Thumper:
To help those trying this cabling application.

This is a followup to the termination configuration Mr.Wigggles layed out in his starter post above:

[To crank up the performance yet another notch, solder all the "grounds" and shield together (inside the shells) at both ends even though the video card & projector combine these grounds on their circuit boards.]


Thumper

Ok, this post lost me. I only see one shield/ground wire in the above starter post by Mr. Wiggles. Are you saying there are more?

Tim
post #33 of 524
Thread Starter 
Tim,

What Thumper is saying is you need to jumper all of the grounds together with a few small pieces of wire. I don't think it is necessary because the signals are undoubtedly all connected together on the actual graphics card or whatever device you are plugging into that has an HD-15 connector. Soldering all of the little jumper wires wouldn't be that difficult but would require a little finesse and of coarse little more time.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.
post #34 of 524
Just covering all the bases here, is there any reason why this would not with component inputs? It seems like it would since component also uses lines 1-3 and 6-8 (but would leave 10, 13, and 14 vacant).


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post #35 of 524
Thread Starter 
Man E,

It should work really well with component. I have to disagree with Thumper about the use of any coaxial connectors on one side or even both sides. I think it would work fine. Just make sure you solder the cat 5 shield wire to one of the three coaxial grounds on the coaxial end (preferably the Y channel). I haven't done it but I think it would work just fine.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.
post #36 of 524
This will be great if I can get it to work. Federico asked the question about the reason you cut the cable length into two pieces and then reattach in a connector box. What is the reason for this? Hope I can get this trough my head because I was just about to order a 10 meter 15-15pin cable from Better and have been dreading spending that much on a cable.
post #37 of 524
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the reason is so you can switch between different sources and monitors.

For example, I drive a monitor and a projector, and I have an HTPC and a Dish 6000 receiver. By having two lengths of cable, I can easily switch between the different devices...

At least, this is what I am planning on doing...


[This message has been edited by Maynard (edited 06-24-2001).]
post #38 of 524
Thread Starter 
Martin,

I by cutting the cable in two pieces and using a coupler I was demonstrating that the juntion point wouldn't degrade the signal.

As Maynard mentioned, I plan to have a junction box with two sockets for my two display devices and 4 cables each from a different source to plug into the two sockets in any manner I please.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.
post #39 of 524
Thanks Wigggles and Maynard. Makes sense now. Time to start soldering . later
post #40 of 524
where can i purchase the quality shielded CAT5 cable and 15 pin d sub connectors(VGA) from Mr Wiggles is referring to. Everyplace i check out like Markertek has one or the other not both. Any recommendations? Does Fry's carry both and do they ship?

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Serge

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post #41 of 524
Thread Starter 
Power,

Just about any electronic part store will metal HD-15 hoods including Radio Shack I believe.

The shielded Cat 5 is a little more difficult because it is less widely used.
www.l-com.com has some pre-built cables. Fry's doesn't deliver to my knowledge. I used unicom cables ( www.unicomlink.com ). Ask them who also caries their shielded cat 5 products.

-Mr. Wigggles

EDIT: I am not sure if Unicom makes the shielded cables anymore. They are part number F5DD........ and it is no longer listed on their web-site. You can call and ask.

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The Mothership is now boarding.

[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 06-26-2001).]
post #42 of 524
If you're using solder-cup connnectors, then you'll definitely want to do the center row first, as Eirikur mentioned.

An even easier way to do this is to use connectors where you solder seperate pins onto the wires, inserting them into an empty D-Shell connector afterwords. This does require an extra tool (not that I ever complain about having to buy new tools) to insert the pins into the shell, and it'll be even more important to use the strain relief dohickey in the outer shell. It's much easier to solder the pins this way, and easier to put on heat-shrink tubing afterwords.

Planning on building a couple of cables like this over the weekend.

DB.
post #43 of 524
Has anyone tried this for component video yet?

Forgive my ignorance, but how many wires are in a CAT-5 cable? Would you be able to use two wires per component color and it all "fit" in one CAT-5 cable? I would love to save money by making a simple 20' component cable!

Does anyone know if this would work for S-Video also? If there are enough wires in the CAT-5 it would be cool to send down component and s-video to a projector over one cable!

Thanks
Robert
post #44 of 524
post #45 of 524
There are 4 twisted pair (8 wires) plus the outside shield. I haven't tried this.

One concern beyond the ususal electrical concerns, e.g. impedance matching, etc., would be mechanical integrity. I don't know of any ready made junction boxes for DIY one-to-many component cables, but then you could always DIY.

Frank
post #46 of 524
Quote:


Originally posted by Thumper:
To help those trying this cabling application.

This is a followup to the termination configuration Mr.Wigggles layed out in his starter post above:

[To crank up the performance yet another notch, solder all the "grounds" and shield together (inside the shells) at both ends even though the video card & projector combine these grounds on their circuit boards.]

So far we have installed about 150 overhead monitor & projector connections this way and have 60 more on tap to do in the next two weeks. It really does work

Thumper

Thumper or Mr. Wiggles,

What about jumpering all the "-"'s and grounds and connecting them to the shield. Would one still really need the connecting wires for Red-, Green-, and Blue- ?

If not, then there are 3 wires for "other" uses.

Just a thought, I have my shielded Cat5 on order.

Jay
post #47 of 524
Thread Starter 
Jay C,

By all means give it a shot. However, electrically you'll be fine, but the Z impedance at the terminations will definitely be changed probably for the worse but I don't really know.

Give it a shot if you want. but, with solder cup HD-15's the task is pretty easy both ways.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.
post #48 of 524
I just picked up on this thread and had a comment on the grounding issue. From what I've read (i.e. Grounding and Shielding Techniques in Instrumentation/Ralph Morrison) connecting shields at both end can cause a ground loop. Typically you would want to float one end of the shield. I'd suggest trying it both ways and go with whichever works best.
post #49 of 524
Thread Starter 
Bizzaro,

Nope, This isn't an earth ground issue. All grounds are electrically the same at the connectors.

You could always give the one side connection a shot, but the results will probably be the same as the Unshielded results. i.e. the shield will help reduce noise (if noise is a problem in your set-up), but it won't do anything to lower the cat 5 characteristic impedence of 100 ohms. And ringing should still be a problem.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.
post #50 of 524
Jay where did you order your cables? I can't find them anywhere up here.
post #51 of 524
I need HD-15 on one end and 5-BNC on the other. I do have a male HD-15 to 5-BNC breakout cable. I my best bet to put a female HD-15 on one end and use the breakout cable, or try to put five BNC conectors on one end of the Cat5? I think fludolph mentioned that he had done the former. It does sound like it would be a pain to put the five BNCs on, but would it result in better signal quality?

- Chris
post #52 of 524
This works great! Saved me a bundle! I created a 37 foot
SVGA cable for less than twelve dollars.

Tip, I have in case you want to do this is to solder the middle row of pins first.
post #53 of 524
Quote:


Originally posted by Martin P:
Jay where did you order your cables? I can't find them anywhere up here.

IAC is a local distributor in Memphis that my company uses. I contacted our supplier and told him it was for home use. who he contacted I do not know. I thought it strange that e told me shielded Cat5e is also called Cat7 which was unavailable to him at this time. So I went with shielded Cat5. .25 a foot which didn't sound too bad to me. If all goes well, I'll run a network link to my HT room in prep for a HTPC in the future. Also I'll use about 30' to make a VGA cable as Mr. Wiggles has described.

Where do you live, maybe I can help get some to you in smaller sizes. There was no restriction on how much I ordered (big or small).

Jay
post #54 of 524
Just a follow-up...

I used plastic hoods with metallic paint.. Think I paid about .70 cents each.. I would have used metal, but they
did not have them in stock.. The shielded plastic ones work fine. At least in my experience. I got my cable
from altex electronics in Dallas, I am sure you can mail-order from them as well.. Not sure what there web address is.. Their phone is (972) 386-8882
post #55 of 524
I'm getting ready to make one of these cables to connect my new HTPC to my new LT150. In the NEC manual, it mentions pin 12 as "bi-directional data" and pin 15 as "data clock".

In Mr. Wiggles graciously provided information, he doesn't wire up these two pins.

I assume these aren't needed by projector to computer communication?

Thanks!
post #56 of 524
Thread Starter 
Billy,

Those are monitor ID pins. They help tell the computer what monitor you have. If they aren't connected, you have to tell the computer manually what display you have. It is no big deal and it is a "problem" with BNC type cable runs as well.

For completeness, you can short the pins to ground on the computer side of the cable and leave them unconnected (like you are now) on the projector side.

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. Actual RS-232 control of your projector is done through another port on your projector.

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post #57 of 524
Thread Starter 
Chris,

I already addressed your concern earlier.

-Mr. Wigggles

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post #58 of 524
www.cdw.com sells Belden Cat5e shielded. 150' for $39. Is this suitable for this application? It looks good to me, but i'm not sure if shielded should be for the entire cable or for the individual wires.

the part number is 125950

-Spencer

[This message has been edited by Spencer Seung (edited 06-30-2001).]
post #59 of 524
Thread Starter 
That cable will work.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.
post #60 of 524
Thanks for the responce and the offer Jay. I think I will give the place Spencer posted(CDW.com) but if I can't get it there I may be back begging.
I live in the Great White North by the way where not only is it hard to get supplies but the damn Dila bulb is so hot my Igloo is starting to melt.
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