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A Screen Showcase & DIY Review - Page 5

post #121 of 244
JDecleri, can you tell me more about this DaLite High Contrast Cinima Vision material from AVS? Thanks.
post #122 of 244
Hoops 10
check out their website www.dalite.com any you can do a search here in the screens forum for comments from others on this material (HCCV).
It is a light grey with a gain of about 1.1 said to be similar to the Stewart Firehawk but MUCH less expensive. Seems to be a preferred material for many situations.
post #123 of 244
I was interested in making a DIY screen for my X1, and after getting some inspiration reading the postings here, I thought I'd try getting some blackout cloth from the local fabric store.

After looking at the whiteness of the cloth and comparing it to some other white materials, I decided at the last moment not to get the blackout since it was just slightly less white than I expected.

Instead, I looked around and found some interesting material. It's a cotton / rayon blend that resembles the satin cloth that some shiney wedding dresses are made of. It's a silvery white and reflects quite well! I made a quick rig to see how the X1 looked on it, and I was fairly impressed. It certainly does gain a bit in brightness since it's very reflective, and the images were quite clear (I could make out the screendoor still at close range). I still need to do some tests as I don't have anything to scretch it on yet, but I hope to fabricate a picture frame type thingy and staple it on. The other side of the material is basically matte white (very white!) so I was hoping to make a dual sided screen just in case the shiney side sucks.

Has anyone else tried this fabric? I wonder if it will hotspot too much. It comes in 140 cm widths.

HHBL
post #124 of 244
Thread Starter 
I just saw the Da-lite hi-power and HCCV over at Darinp's place yesterday and I must say that I am impressed with both screens!
post #125 of 244
Quote:


Originally posted by Tryg
I just saw the Da-lite hi-power and HCCV over at Darinp's place yesterday and I must say that I am impressed with both screens!

When I saw the Firehawk sample on top of the HCMW (pulldown version of the HCCV) I was surprised that the HCMW looks a little bit brighter, since the Firehawk is rated at 1.35 and the HCMW is rated at 1.1 gain. On white lettering I would say they are close when watching on axis with ceiling mount, but if I had to give the nod one way it would have been to the HCMW for brightness. Note that I didn't check that these were 100 IRE whites, though.

Since I was originally considering the Firehawk because I wanted things just a little bit brighter than the HCMW I decided that I wouldn't buy the Firehawk. However, after a couple of more days of testing I've decided that I probably will be buying a screen with the Firehawk material. The reason isn't so much the slightly darker blacks or the ambient light rejection (even though those are good), but because it looks a hair clearer to me. With white lettering it looks like maybe a little less blooming than the HCMW and one thing that has frustrated me about the HCMW is that I can see the screen sparkle. With the Firehawk I don't see that nearly as much. From 1.8 screen width away I noticed this difference a little bit and so I went up and looked at the screens closely. With my HT1000 shining an image the HCMW has kind of a sheen or sparkle to it that isn't there with the Firehawk.

One thing that I like about the Hi-Power is that I never see the screen itself, but I felt like I got more image depth with the HCMW with the bad side effect of the sparkles. From reports and what I've seen I think the Firehawk would show the sparkles or screen material with bright images before the Hi-Power would, but it still looks significantly better than the HCMW in that regard.

I used to marvel that a 92" wide pulldown Firehawk costs more than 6 times the pulldown HCMW, but now I'm strongly considering paying the premium. I don't know how the Model C does for waves with the HCMW, but Da-Lite was right that this isn't the right material for a Model B, in my experience. At least with the Firehawk there is a tensioning system.

For me, the Firehawk in my dark theater room with a ceiling mounted projector and the Hi-Power in my light walled living room with a big screen and a projector down low look like the best fits. I may just buy some Firehawk material and make a small plasma sized screen for my bedroom before committing to the price of a big Firehawk.

--Darin
post #126 of 244
Thread Starter 
A bump for J.L.!
post #127 of 244
One part BEHR METALLIC SILVER
Eight parts BEHR ULTRA PURE WHITE
Eight Parts distilled water
Sprayed on with HVLP Sprayer

I'm THINKING about it
Stop me before its too late.

I'm spraying a screen for the first time. (Blackout cloth stretched onto wood frame)


I started with Behr WHITE PRIMER and now I'm up to topping off with multiple very thin coats of ULTRA PURE WHITE (eggshell)
I'm using an inexpensive Campbell Haufeld HVLP sprayer that I got at Home Depot.

I need to run back to home Depot to pick up some sandpaper to sand out some uneven spots before continuing...

But I keep seeing the SILVER paint which looks like this, except its SILVER!

More info here:
http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/p...ishes&catId=18

Should I go for it? Should I mix the SILVER with the ULTRA PURE WHITE?
post #128 of 244
From what I was told, blackout cloth is already primed and doesn't need to be primed before you paint it. Also, you have to sand the blackout cloth? That sounds like its going to be difficult to sand cloth.
post #129 of 244
Hey hoops,

The layer of primer is to build up the surface slightly to fill in the texture on the cloth (both sides of the blackout have some texture). I may have been able to build up the surface with paint alone, but I figured a layer of primer couldn't hurt.

The sanding is to smooth out some runs or inconsistencies that build up between coats.

I'm still equivocating whether I should attempt to add some silver to the pure white, at the risk of producing some type of unusable result...or just going for the standard reliable white.
post #130 of 244
Which side of the cloth did you decide to use? I noticed that after looking at blackout cloth, it looked like 1 side was a glossy side.
post #131 of 244
That is the side I used.

For exactly that reason--- that it is smother than the other side.
post #132 of 244
This is just my neophyte opinion, but I would think that with 8 parts white to one part silver, you will end up with a white screen with a few sparklies embedded in it. It may be also difficult to keep the finish consistant. I am not sure that you would really see much benefit from the silver unless you use considerably more, and every indication I have seen says that it takes multiple coats to get an even silver finish. As much effort as you have tied up in this project, you might want to just run with a white screen for now and see if someone else pioneers a better formula in the next few months.
post #133 of 244
If I mix a quart or two of this 8 to 1 formula and apply it in multiple thin coats it should go on pretty consistently.

I think I would have a low risk of a non-useable screen (better chance of acheiving uniformity than if using pure silver) but I may still be likely to realize some of the benefits of silver.

A white screen with a subtle hint of silver sparklies might be a good compromise...not a Ferrari of course, more like an upgrade from a Honda Accord to a Honda Prelude.
post #134 of 244
Sounds like a plan. You might want to spray a sample on a piece of foamboard, or maybe some scrap blackout cloth left over from your screen just to be sure. Let us know how it turns out.
post #135 of 244
I have a PLV-Z1 projecting onto a blackout cloth and I am thinking about upgrading my screen, but I have a few questions.

What kind of gain is blackout cloth, and how closely does it resemble a matte white screen?

What gain/screen material would you recommend for the Z1?

I was looking at the liquiscreen, pvc vinyl, or the matte white (such as vutec or generic), but those are very random choices. If you could offer your input for screen material I would be all ears.

Thanks
post #136 of 244
I just finished painting my blackout screen with behr ultra pure white, which I think would be similar in result to a standard matte white screen.
I figured this is the basic "standard" sprayed screen to start to measure others against and also to learn the technique of an HVLP sprayer.

While I haven't yet done extensive viewing, I think the gain is similar to the blackout I had been using, but the main improvement is purity of the white. Blackout (like the sammples I was using) is often slightly blue. (I did use the slightly riskier eggshell finish, which came out very much replicating the fine texture and very subtle shimmer look of an eggshell)

I tried to paint a few samples pieces of board with the Behr Premium Plus metallic silver and I'm glad I took Assayer's advice not to attempt it on my actual screen:

First, it took some trials to get the thinning and spray patterns right, which could easily have ruined my screen had I tried spraying silver. More important, I don't know if this particular paint is "silver" enough to work well. I should experiment more, but this particular formula seems to be more of a metallic gray than silver. Finally, it is much less forgiving of slightly inconsistent spraying even when doing so correctly.

I should experiment more with different formulas. I'm sure someone here will eventually come up with the right formula (and just as important,----the accompanying application technique) for creating a "SilverStar" like coating. I'm sure its got alot to do with having a correct base layer, the fineness of the metal particles and how they orient themselves and set with different application methods.

I'll go out on a limb and predict "Silver Goo" within 6 months.
LL
post #137 of 244
What an awesome thread. Can't wait to see how some of these DIY "silver" screens turn out!

dave
post #138 of 244
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by djordan

I'll go out on a limb and predict "Silver Goo" within 6 months.

I'm really surprised Ken hasn't posted that he's been working on "Silver Goo" for the last six months and it's nearly perfected
post #139 of 244
I was just going to suggest the Digital Gray goo on blackout cloth. I too am building a DIY blackout cloth screen. I want to see how it looks before I buy and apply the digital gray goo. What do you think about that screen and the Z1? Also, what gain would just the blackout cloth give you? What gain would the blackout cloth painted with digital gray goo give you?
post #140 of 244
An idea that I'm toying with is to use a silver base-coat under a goo coat.

From my understanding, the top coat of goo is fairly transparent, so the color of the base coat makes a difference. I guess one of these days I should just order some goo and try it though.
post #141 of 244
Has anyone tried spray adhesive and massive quantities of glitter? (Is Saturday Night Fever available on DVD? You'd want the right source material to test a screen like that!)

On a more serious note, thanks for doing this, Tryg. I wish it didn't lean so heavily toward bulb projectors, though. I'm wondering if an MFA-based screen, in conjunction with a fairly bright (1000 lumens) ceiling-mounted CRT could produce a bright enough image to (at least slightly) offset the ambient light issues taht plague us CRT owners...

Also, in the future, maybe you could do a review on acoustically transparent screens?
post #142 of 244
I have tried 3 times to build a DIY screen and failed each time. Here's what happened.

My 2nd projector is the Infocus X1. I have been using a Da-Lite Glass Bead pull-down screen for 3 years. Yes I didn't know anything back then

Now my 1st attempt:

Using a piece of back-rubberized cloth (I really don't know what it is, may be that's the blackout cloth people have been talking about here) I brought a few years ago for my original projector. I never really used that cloth because my Da-Lite was brighter and better. I sprayed the Rust-oleum - Metallic Finish Aluminum (spray paint)
(Home depot: V7715) on the rubber side thinking it was smoother than the front. The result was a total disaster because any tiny fiber or dust became giant trees after soaking up the spray mist. Needless to say the try out was bad. Now I really know what Tryg meant when he said flat surface. Total waste 2 cans of paint and 1 piece of 3 year old $10 cloth.

My 2nd attempt:

Got a 4x8 compressed particle board (or whatever Temp HDBD is) for $5.95 from HomeDepot. This board has 1 rough side and 1 smooth side. I sprayed 2 cans of the same paint on it and the try out waswell it has all the qualities as Tryg said, great brightness and contrast. Color was great. The only negative is bright objects are very unrealistic. E.g. clouds sparkles instead of cotton like. I think the gain is too much and the paint has too much reflective material in it. In fact, a half and half test with my Da-Lite made me discard this screen right away. When standing up (my projector is ceiling mounted), the brightness of both is about the same. However the Da-Lite was MUCH smoother and natural. So Total waste: 2 cans of paint again.

My 3rd attempt:

This time, I re-read Tryg's post and went to Home Depot and got me 2 cans of Rust-oleum - High Heat Silver (7716 Heat Resistant Silver) and sprayed over the aluminum paint. I didn't do as careful a job as the last attempt so the paint wasn't as smooth but hey if it worked, I wouldn't mind spraying one more time. This time, the gain is much less BUT that darn reflective material is still there. ALL bright objects have this unnatural reflection, especially the sky. However, the contrast, color, and most important, darkness are excellent. Still the Da-Lite beats it in the sky scenes.

Now I still have the screen hanging in the room because...man, I can even watch HDTV with the lights on. It is just a great screenonly if I can get rid of that reflective material.

So my old Da-Lite glass bead stills beats out my DIY screen.

Now I don't know what to do, as I have tasted the great grey screen. Matte-white will never beat the grey screen but I can't get any good and cheap commercial screens. Any suggestions? I won't try any more metallic paints as I just can't stand those shining clouds.

Kin
post #143 of 244
Thread Starter 
Kin, you are da man!
post #144 of 244
Kin,
You should try the goo paint. It is expensive, but I heard it works great. I plan on using it here shortly.
post #145 of 244
Hello screen experts.

I've been over in the Screen forum for the past few days since Tryg posted in the CRT forum.

I have some confusion that you can help clear up for me.

*
for bulb projectors, I thought that people wanted a negative gain screen, like a grey screen, in order to make the blacks look blacker.

If that is true, why are many mentioning the great qualities of 3-gain, 6-gain, or higher screens with their bulb projectors? Won't it be too bright?

*
For CRT projectors, I thought that something like a 1.3 gain would be perfect. Just a little gain, and it keeps the colors where they should be.

If you have a CRT projector with some unwanted ambient light, a 3-gain, 6-gain, or higher screen would be a possible trade off... am I right?

*

I guess I am missing the fundamentals. I read Tryg's screen reviews. Thanks, Tryg. Very informative. But I cannot judge how relevant they are to my situation since I have a CRT projector.

Thanks
post #146 of 244
As a CRT owner, I too am curious about this. Is it possible that a high-gain screen might allow me to watch via my projector even with moderate levels of ambient light? Obviously black levels would suffer, but if overall brightness was higher and colors were sufficiently bright/vivid, this could be acceptable for non-critical viewing.

It'd be pretty cool to be able to watch football on Sunday mornings without having to turn my living room into a cave...
post #147 of 244
Not a CDT expert, but

LCD, and especially DLP have gotten much better in last couple of years (better contrast/black level) can handle higher gain. Also, supposedly hot-spotting is not as bad as with a CRT as all colors come through one lens.

My only worry about high-gain is if there is also the same high gain on the ambient light.

Somebody will correct me if need be.

This and a couple other threads got me thinking. I may go buy one of those huge silver tarps, hook it to the side of the house, and have a drive-in this summer.
post #148 of 244
ElvisIncognito
I have the same the same problem, only with an X1, so I don't think I can get too "hot" with a screen. AFAIK With ambient light, I believe you need to determine where you want the ambient light to be reflected to, in order to choose whether retro reflective or angular reflective screens will be better in your circumstances. Retro goes back to its source, angular to the opposite side. It's kind of hard for me to picture which would be better for me, let alone you. Most of my ambient light comes from one side. i'm guessing - angular reflective?
post #149 of 244
Tryg-

On one sample, you sprayed the Metallic Finish Aluminum onto Dacron cloth. I'm curious as to the characteristics of that cloth and its interaction with the paint...

Dacron is a stretchy cloth isn't it? If so, then it should be feasible to place speakers behind it... If you stretched it the right amount before painting it, might it still pass audio after the paint was applied? (This has been a long standing theory of mine; I'm curious as to your opinion.) I would also think that cloth would provide a "wicking" effect that might tend to even out the coat (with less visible streaks, bands, etc.) - did you find this to be the case?
post #150 of 244
Thread Starter 
Pocatello,

you can choose any gain you want. If you want brighter go with higher gain. There's just less issues with lower gain screens

Elvis

Dacron is like a nylon/polyester. It shouldnt stretch. I choose it because it shouldn't soak up any elements of the paint thus seperating the components. Cotton may do this. It does wick however because it is pourous. I think I would recommend a non permiable vinyl type backing for any further experimentation. That is of coarse only if you need it to be flexable. Best results will probably be with a solid surface backing.
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