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A Screen Showcase & DIY Review - Page 6

post #151 of 244
I don't need it to be flexible, per se - I need it to pass audio. (I want to place my center channel speaker directly behind the screen... in fact, I intend to build the speaker into the screen frame assembly.) My thought was to get some stretchy material, stretch it over a frame, spray it with the aluminum paint, then blow compressed air through it to "open up the pores", then repeat as necessary, applying several thin coats to get an even finish. Of course, if I could find some silver cloth that would pass audio, that'd certainly be a lot easier...
post #152 of 244
Last time I went to Home Depot I saw a 4x8 foot panel of White Backer Board (I think that's what it was called...) for about $10.xx something. It was about 1/4" or less in thickness and has one side covered with a thin matte white vinyl type material. It may have a very slight sheen, but I couldn't tell at the store.

I was wondering that this could be perfect as a screen by itself, or to use as a platform to do painting experiments...

My 2 cents... I'll check this out closer next time I go there...
post #153 of 244
I am about to begin this experiment. What base material are you all using for the screen. I saw mention of a foam board. Please explain. Are some using a stretched cloth to paint on, fiber board, sheet rock, what? If it's up to me then what seems to be best, smooth?, how smooth. I would like to at least have my paint application be the problem and not the screen material.

Thanks!
Rob
post #154 of 244
I was at joann fabrics looking for blackout cloth when I spotted a silver metallic paint in the fabric paint section. Im familiar with automotive metallics, and this had significantly smaller flakes and a much smoother appearance. Plus it was only 4.99 for a 4 ounce bottle, making it a cheap test.

I am looking to apply this to a thin drywall board thats been prepped with a coat of stain-block.

Anyone have any suggestions before I set out.
post #155 of 244
Just to keep us posted on the results!!

Make sure you air-gun it on, it's SO hard to get a good coverage rolling...

Let me know how it turns out, I want to try a different formula!
post #156 of 244
Anyone ever think of photography background silver fabric as a starting point?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/...FSP42/REG/1341


Also, some cool ideas here....
http://www.amt-usa.com/en/curtain.htm
post #157 of 244
I may have found something that would get Tryg's heartbeat up

I parked my car yesterday and noticed that the window shade I've been using for a while may work as a projector screen. It's called "Magic Shade" by Axius. It has a silver metallic finish that reflects and diffuses light quite good. It's quite thin but the back side is black so no transparency there. As a screen it needs tensioning though...

So I took it in and compared it against a standard matte white screen using a 1300 lumen DLP projector. The blacks were definately a lot blacker (very nice!) but the brightness stayed close to matte white quality with a bit darker colors.

The problem is getting the material in larger sizes though as the Axius window shades only come at a maximum of 31"x38" size (Super Jumbo). You can get the window shades at Walmart for about $5-7 bucks.

I've tried contacting Axius but I can only get an answering machine. Maybe someone is able to track down where to get the fabric for larger sizes?
post #158 of 244
Several interesting hits when you google for "reflective fabric" AND silver...

Here's one such example:
http://www.mutualindustries.com/refl...ml/silver.html

Here's another:
http://www.intertraffic.com/marketpl...544&newsid=183
post #159 of 244
There's a type of boat cover that looks exactly like the window shade you are talking about. I don't know the name of the boat cover, but have seen it. It seems to stretch easily. You should be able to find a fairly large boat cover to get enough material for a screen.
post #160 of 244
Is the possibility of paying a few bucks to your local body shop to paint a screen worth a try? It would be one way of making sure a siver paint would be done right. just a thought.
post #161 of 244
I'm a auto painter and I can't speak for every body shop but for a nominal fee I personally wouldn't have a problem spraying a few screens.

Ddog!!
post #162 of 244
siver!? I meant Silver. whoops
post #163 of 244
KLAATUWI: In each post, there is an Edit button near the upper right you can use to correct booboos.
post #164 of 244
What type of result do you think you would get if you took a thin piece of sheet metal and powder coated it? You would get a smooth consistent finish, then mount it to a stronger backing. My friend owns a powder coat oven and I'll ask him to see a brochure on his colors.
post #165 of 244
One problem may be hotspotting. If you could add a hint of texture, it might be the best thing yet. What would that co$t?
post #166 of 244
To avoid a smooth surface it could have a textured coating applied. From Tryg's up close photos gives a good idea of the type of texturing. I am waiting to hear about availability of color and his comments on the process. I know he has done metal fence for about $5 per foot. Even with a bit more surface area, the cost should not get too much more - so $50-100 and the application would be perfect. Even is there were a slight error, it is easy to run through again to correct. Very forgiving compared to spray paint, and a surface that is very resistant to abrasion.
post #167 of 244
Can powder coating be clear? I suspect not. Presumably you're considering sheet metal due to its reflective similarities to a finished silver screen (whether from VueTec or DIY) but the instant you powder coat it, that reflectivity goes away. (It's a coating, right? Thus the sheet metal underneath is no longer visible.) In order to make this work, you'd need to powder coat using a reflective powder. I have no idea if this exists, but I've never seen it. I think that's where you need to start, though.
post #168 of 244
You don't want clear on metal as you would be getting something like a mirror. I was thinking of something like the Rust Oleum High Heat Silver that Tryg was experimenting with. The reflective silver like coating would be powder coated to the metal. I agree that a shiny surface would not be good, like semi-gloss paint. The advantage of the powder coat is that it would be a very consistant finish, unlike the problems encountered with the spray cans. And I will check to see if it can be a matte like. I don't know what the cost of a thin sheet of metal up to 10' long would be. Plus it would have to be back mounted.

With the slightly rough texture necessary I saw something last night that I had to laugh at, but then started to think a little more seriously. Over by the Edwards Theater they have a ceramic shop. They had some greenware about trivit size that were ready to be painted, glazed and fired. I'll bet that surface could be created to have about any texture you want. Of course making a 10' sheet would strain reason, but porcelain can be powder coated.

Just some random thoughts.
post #169 of 244
I have tried the hometheater link mentioned in the first post and been unable to download the document described.

Could someone please e-mail a copy of the document to: timmaddog@comcast.net.

Thanks

By the way. I was looking at dat-light's web site and they say the screen height should be 1/6 the rear seat dimension. This means for seats located 12' from the screen the height of the screen should be 24". Are you kidding me? That is smaller than my FP big screen. What am I doing wrong here?

Thanks

Bob
post #170 of 244
Thread Starter 
Has anybody got their Aluminum painted screens to have this kind of texture? DDog?

post #171 of 244
Anodized Aluminum looks like this similar but much finer structure had to shine a light from the side to get it to show at all.
LL
post #172 of 244
I'm using a fabric with a pattern like that



The picture shows it unpainted. I can't get a good picture holding a coin to the painted fabric with one hand and the camera in the other, sorry
post #173 of 244
I found out what the material is that I use for my screen (pic above): ordinary vinyl wall paper.
So if you're looking for that 'magic' pattern you know where to look.
post #174 of 244
Has anyone done any more experimenting on this stuff yet? I'm considering purchasing either the Infocus X1 or the Sharp PG-AX10. With my (extremely) limited budget, a DIY screen seems the way to go. I just finished reading the thread from begining to end, and I'm curious if anyone has found the "ultimate" paint/material combo.

anyone?

anyone?

bueller?

~squighound
post #175 of 244
squighound,

Guess what? Intrepid souls who know NO fear have indeed stretched DIY screen performance to the limits of reality.

This thread, and other Tryg endeavors have stirred many.

And to all rights,(...and considerable credit...) many of Trygs posts and reviews were the basis of our R&D, as were the elements and concepts behind Goo, an excellent product itself that can figure into our designs when financially applicable. And DDog, where ever he may dwell, pioneered a few of the most important elements. What goes around, comes around, and what is old is new once more. The world turns.

Using a Plexiglas base, coated on both sides with special paint combinations, the SuperDeluxe/MississippiMud screen delivers as bright an image as any High Gain screen, with detail that is exacting, and a color correctness that effectively surpasses those screens costing over 8-10 times the expense of the DIY materials.

Variations on this scheme, using Hardboard or Parkland as a substrate still deliver results that amaze viewers and will confound and distress Screen Mfgs.

To wit, and in a nutshell, here are the basics. We have complete instructions posted elsewhere.

1 - 1/8" thick x 4' x 8' or larger Plexiglas sheet.

1 - Quart of Kilz2 Primer with 1/96 Oz of Lamp Black added to create a Grey background for.........*

1 - Quart Beir Silver Metallic.

Initial step. Roll, or HVLP Spray (much preferred) 2 coatings of the Silver Metallic onto one side of the Plexi Then, apply the Grey primer over the top of the silver (..which is, of course, the back of the silver...)

* MM Top Coat.

(All Paints are "Flat" Acrylic Latex)

1 Quart Beir Deep Base (1300)
1 Quart Beir Beir Ultra Pure White
1 Quart Beir "White Opal" Pearlescence (Faux Paint)
2 1/96 Oz. Droplets of Lamp Black
1 1/96 Oz. Droplet of Thallo Green

Must be mixed throughly at the "Depot" via the Shaker for two 5 min. cycles



Flop the Plexi over and apply the first layer of MM Top Coat*. Roll, or spray (...again, spraying is much preferred.) If you roll, you must lightly wet sand the first coat using a Large, Medium/Fine Sanding sponge, throughly wetted and rung out, and evenly swept across the surface.

Roll or spray another coat.

All coats MUST be DRY before wet sanding or following up with the next coat. I employ the Earle Schiebe "Blast 'em Dry" method by using a small Propane Reddi Heater directed at the center from 6' and two 500 watt lamps directed at each side end at the bottom edge. This will allow 1 hour drying times for rolled finishes and 15-20 minute times for sprayed finishes. Otherwise, expect 24 and 4 hour times respectively at room temperature and longer at cooler temps.

Mount Plexi on any lightweight but rigid material, frame with any number of methods, hang where desired. Enjoy.

Yeah....way oversimplified, but essentially that's it. Painting skills, either previously acquired or gleaned from instructions also available, will make all the difference. If your really good at rolling thicker paints, and take some time to learn a deft touch at wet sanding, you can achieve as smooth finish akin to glass as you could imagine. The MM Top Coat and Goo Top Coats both feel slick & wet to the touch if applied properly.

The Great Texture Debate.

No debate necessary. Ever see a texture like Tryg's Silver above on a screen of any design? I bet you haven't! That texture is merely a better than usual result of a good roll job. Perhaps as good as any good achieve without additional wet sanding.

But.................................*

For the record, texture is not desired. For it to be necessary to offset overt reflectivity is the same as saying you have to have speed bumps every 100 yards on the Freeway. It's counterproductive to create adverse angles of refraction for any reason. Light waves of all spectrum's should ideally reflect back at angles determined by their specific wavelengths. First surface mirrors are used in RPTVs because they offer ideally the highest percentage of reflectivity. (93% to 97%)

If you can achieve a 'virtually' perfect blend of overall reflectivity (gain) without graininess, and maintain color correctness by getting light to reflect according to its preference and not according to conditions, then you should never need to consider texture as a counterbalance.

Mirrors were considered, and in keeping, tests with Aluminum paint and Aluminum foil backing Plexiglas were tried and dismissed. A truly bright silver metallic was zeroed in on. It delivered high reflectivity, but not so high as to create overt hotspotting, and a sharpness that highlighted detail to the point of graininess. Many entry level PJs (LCDs) have both low luminosity values (600-800 Lumens) and SDE to worry about, and our directed efforts were to offset such vagrancies but keep on screen luminosity high.

X1s and their ilk have an easier time of it, what with their excellent contrast ratio and increased Lumen specs. many souls swear by the images they get up on raw Parkland! Even High Lumen PJs (1500 to 2200) and Mustang 2 Chip based PJs can benefit greatly from this application, be it Plexi or "On the Wall". I've installed several X1s with "Painted Wall" screens consisting of only the Top Coat elements listed, or with Goo CRT White Top Coat. If the Client can ante up for the additional cost of a Goo application, I'm assurred of excellent results.....and no mixing. If not, and I must foot the bill, the MM Mix rules, for it costs only $80.00 and delivers 3 times the quantity to first test & train, apply, and (gasp) repair if necessary. For beginning DIY'ers, this has to be a consideration.

I guess profit has a little to do with it too in my case.

But Goo does offer simplicity, and combined with innovative Silver & (Gold is in the offing) Base Coats, and the Plexi sandwich, the extra cost can easily be justified by DIY'er that are not frightened of spending a little more to take it to the umpteenth level. Oh yeah....., walls too.

If one spends even a small sum ($900-$1100.00) for an entry level PJ, the end results must depend on the surface that accepts the image. At worst, the best the above SD/MM application has to offer in the Plexi format cost a mere $225.00 in materials. Add another $125.00 if a Goo Top Coat is desired. $350.00

Let's say you use the SD/MM formula on a 5' x 10' Parkland sheet.

$180.00

A finished Dry wall wall?

$ 85.00

Now lets get serious.

Complete HLVP Spray outfit w/Hoses, Regulator/Filter/ 5 Hp -24 Gallon Compressor, Gravity Feed Gun. At Home Depo. $225 complete

All the paint as described above in the SD/MM format $100.00

108" diagonal Plexi Sheet (approx 102' x 62"0 $125.00

Misc. Supplies (incl.Wood Screen Trim w/felt or velvet) $ 50.00

Total cost for one very excellent DIY Screen $ 500.00

Rent a Spray rig, and subtract $100.00
Buy the rig, and become beloved in your neighborhood.

Is the best worth it? Well, considering this screen can be almost any size you want or that is needed, up to the limits of the availability of the Plexi, or almost NO limit when painting the formula directly on a wall, and that the results outstrip that of both HC & High Gain Mfg screens that come loaded with compromises of one sort or another..............;

you betcha.

But the attached Screen Shot ( excellently rendered & provided by CMRA, a partner in this crime) should allow you and others to decide. The shot involves Nicole Kiddman and her creamy skin tones. get skin tones looking right, and most everything else fall into place.

Pj used is a Z1 Camera is a $1200.00 Oly whose model escapes me.

The background screen is a High Contrast "painted board" screen coated with CMRA's ME paint. ME is short for Misty Evening, a light Grey, Glidden Color that contains Thallo Green to enhance contrast levels beyond what the 'grey' alone can accomplish, but without seriously 'crushing' white levels. It costs about $15.00 worth of paint (incl. a quart of grey tinted Kilz2 Primer) to effect a screen surface that performs well with the PJ used for the Screen Shot, a Z1 with 700 Lumens and a mere 600;1 Contrast ratio. Higher lumen PJs really get great results, and the ME mix has been adopted by many on this forum as the ultimate easy & affordable DIY paint around. And it remains so for those looking for an easy out.

But it is also the basis for starting out on a quest to get the BEST results possible, and in a format and mixture that can be broadly applied to several different applications, and various budgets.

Lightening ME with a cut of Ultra Pure White Flat and including a smidgen of Red Oxide was one route.

The addition of Silver Metallic, Clear Glaze, and UPWF as a 'one coater' came next.

Some gains, some losses.

The MississippiMud Top Coat came along as a result of my trying to duplicate or exceed the deservedly acclaimed attributes of Goo Top Coats for less than 1/2 the costs. The "Pure Silver Metallic" undercoating was again something I championed.

Now, work continues along the lines to enhance contrast levels even more, for although the SD/MM Plexi scheme works beyond all expectations, once again, there seems to be just a teeny weeny deficiency in pure black levels when used with a PJ with poor contrast specs. (...under 1000:1)

Why bother trying to have the entire cake and eat it too? because the affordable PJ is the Future of Home Theater, and until a true 16:9 1388x764 HD-DVI- PJ (LCD or DLP) with 2000:1 CR and at least 1200 Lumens comes along for under $2000.00, the majority of entry level Projector heads will continue to demand a screen option that cost less than their X1, Z1, Panny 300, or any of the other PJs out there that suffer from the 'affordable but deficient' syndrome.

They present the most unique and exciting challange, and to effectively solve thier problems is to create an affordable DIY screen option that offers it's advantages to ALL PJ owners at any price point who have an inkling of what it means to get more bang for the buck than can usually ever be expected. No, it's not free (...use your white or cream colored wall for that...) and the best Plexi w/Goo Top Coat AND Spray Equipment cost about 1/2 of the least expensive "Good Quality" Mfg screens out there, but after seeing what lies beneath this post, I think you will at least want to consider the "Painted Wall" or "Painted Board" applications. Or go 'whole hog' and bite on the SD/MM Plexi design and astound yourself and everybody who ever deigns to grace the confines of your Home Theater.

Do you want to know more? Look in Screens for any Thread or Post listed under CMRA. MississippiMan, or Scoob5555, or under the Thread topic below.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&goto=newpost

(Tryg, both forgiveness and thanks in advance for my using (high-jacking? ) your thread. This latest development will be at the next Screen Shootout in at least three different formats and since your partly to blame for it all, you have to live with the consequences!)


Now. At last. Presenting for your viewing pleasure.........,
........the lovely Nicole.
LL
post #176 of 244
mississipi man: wow man, nicole looks like frankenstain =(
post #177 of 244
Quote:


Originally posted by squighound
Has anyone done any more experimenting on this stuff yet? I'm considering purchasing either the Infocus X1 or the Sharp PG-AX10. With my (extremely) limited budget, a DIY screen seems the way to go. I just finished reading the thread from begining to end, and I'm curious if anyone has found the "ultimate" paint/material combo.

anyone?

anyone?

bueller?

~squighound

X1 is the darling of the $1000 PJ crowd. The only thing is some people
suffer from the DLP rainbow syndrome. It's a fine projector by all accounts
for the money. Built in Faroudja DCDi deinterlacer for 480i material. Good
contrast ratio.

read the FAQ here...

http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/

I own an A10X LCD and I am pleased with it. Higher res. that the X1. The
A10X is short in the contrast area, but I can live with that.

Plan on light control if you can, ambient light just kills contrast in
dark scenes in movies.

A quick and dirty screen is blackout cloth (you can get it at cloth stores,
ask for "blackout drape lining material"). Stretch and staple over a
DIY frame.

For around $45 you can get a Draper V Screen pulldown. Matte White
2 screws and it's up.

And the old standby a white wall. Can be painted to your hearts desire.

Another projector to look at is the Sanyo Z1 (LCD) with a wide screen
resolution for the LCD panels.

Go to projectorcentral.com they have lots of reviews over there.

b2b
post #178 of 244
Wow. What an awesome effort. Just read your thread for the first time, Tryg. I really appreciate all the work and effort you've put into this.
post #179 of 244
Quote:


Originally posted by m Robinson
"Plus you can sit back and watch the knuckleheads pound their chest about which screen is the best...and laugh at them "

We should probably just close the doors! And the millions spent on automated coating coating equipment, developing advanced substrates with tightly controlled gloss, neutral tinting formulations, characteristics which preserve uniform white field performance, Air and fluid filtration and control, to make every square millimeter uniform? Wasted effort! Heck, use a tarp, paper or masonite, your sedentary neighbors big white arss, anything! Make your own superior screen! Grab a can of Rustoleum silver, or Tremclad, and lap us all, in a couple weeks! Just joking buddy, in keeping with the times. Hardy Har Har! There are plenty of jokers already on this page.
But seriously if you want to use metallic pigments, you won't make anything of any uniformity, worth a monkey's butt, unless it's sprayed, by a robot, with a generously sized conventional spray gun, with a lot of control. And yes it will hotspot, and yes it will color shift, and you'll see stripes at every leading and trailing edge you coated, cause you can't keep it uniformly wet. But you could overcome that if you spent a few hundred grand on pigments, polymers and automated equipment. Of course this depends on your standards and the standards of your customers. And if your planning on staying in business, your customers are who you really listen to, (not self proclaimed internet divas). I suppose I will come in to work tomorrow after all. I've got a couple (thousand) orders to fill. But hey I'm just another knucklehead on the super information hershey highway. Where's my porn links anyway. Oh there they are, See ya!

Mark "Knucklehead" Robinson
Director of Manufacturing
Stewart Filmscreen Corp

Wow!

What an amazingly jumped up employee of stewart screens we have here.

Personally I wouldn't buy one of your screens just based on that little tantrum.
post #180 of 244
When spraypainting a screen, do you lay it flat on the ground or mount it to a wall? I assume you would lay it flat to avoid paint dripping down the screen?
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