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Samsung DLP -N- series tweaks thread - Page 3

post #61 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by rvonder
Jeff,
Contrast: 80
Brightness: 40
Sharpness: 65
Color: 40
Tint: 30/70
Temp: Normal

I have not yet used Avia or VE; these are 'eyeball' settings only but do represent a lot of hours and fine-tuning to get them where I think they looked best. No changes (yet) to SM settings; am still waiting for someone to do a Colorfacts calibration to see how close they are OOTB. But lowering the color made a HUGE difference in PQ for me.

Rob

Cool, Rob... at least you somewhat validated the fact that I didn't just drop too much acid or something.

I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated room that is always dark, so I mainly stick to my "custom" settings as opposed to "movie" or "dynamic" or whatever. Which gamma and color tone settings are you using?

Later,
Jeff
post #62 of 1751
Iceblade,

I set up my 507 (new internals; DCDi, DNIe, etc., firmware 204) on Component 1 only with 480i from my old Pioneer DVD (I'm waiting for the new DVI Samsung this summer). I ended up on Custom, Warm 1, Gamma 4, everything else OFF. I tried 5 but it seemed too dark. I'm tempted to try 0 but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Remember to check the Color Decoder pattern with the red filter. That helped red over-saturation tremendously and gave me excellent flesh tones. My big complaint right now is banding. It really annoys me sometime depending on program material but I haven't messed with the SM very much to try to correct it. I might try playing with the Color Wheel delay setting as someone mentioned earlier in this forum. Any ideas? Have fun with Avia. I don't want to tell you my final values. I'm interested to see what you come up with then we can compare.

davige
post #63 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by davige
Iceblade,

I set up my 507 (new internals; DCDi, DNIe, etc., firmware 204) on Component 1 only with 480i from my old Pioneer DVD (I'm waiting for the new DVI Samsung this summer). I ended up on Custom, Warm 1, Gamma 4, everything else OFF. I tried 5 but it seemed too dark. I'm tempted to try 0 but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Remember to check the Color Decoder pattern with the red filter. That helped red over-saturation tremendously and gave me excellent flesh tones. My big complaint right now is banding. It really annoys me sometime depending on program material but I haven't messed with the SM very much to try to correct it. I might try playing with the Color Wheel delay setting as someone mentioned earlier in this forum. Any ideas? Have fun with Avia. I don't want to tell you my final values. I'm interested to see what you come up with then we can compare.

davige

Fair enough. Hopefully I will have Avia within a week or so. It is practically impossible to find around here in any store, so the internet is the only way for me to snag it.

Thanks,
Jeff
post #64 of 1751
Has anyone found out exactly what AUTOCOLOR does? I perfomed it by accident on my new HLN617 - before I read any of the warnings on this site - on the progressive scan input, and it totally fixed the problem I was having. Specifically, whenever I ran my DVD player in progressive scan mode (component inputs), it had a strong green tint, which could not be fixed with the user settings. After running autocolor, it totally went away and the colors are now very natural. Can anyone confirm that I didn't inadvertantly mess anything else up - I'm a bit worried after reading the warnings on this site, but everything looks okay to me.

If someone knows what autocolor does, it would help. I had a dvd playing at the time, but did not use a color pattern. Thanks,
post #65 of 1751
Are we talking about the same TV? Where is "autocolor" in the menus? Is this a service menu item only, it sure isn't in any regular menus I've seen.
post #66 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by turls
Are we talking about the same TV? Where is "autocolor" in the menus? Is this a service menu item only, it sure isn't in any regular menus I've seen.

Matt,

Yep, it's in the service menu. It's the last option under "JAGADC(PC)".

Regs,
Jeff
post #67 of 1751
Actually, the AUTOCOLOR option I'm talking about is in the SM under AD9883 (Component/480P). It's the last option, just before AD_RESET. Which leads me to another question. Does anyone know what AD_RESET and/or AUTOCOLOR does. Anyone with a service manual out there!!! An answer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!
post #68 of 1751
I have the HLM507 with the new internals. Basically, with the DNIE, as this seems to be the easiest way to determine whether you have new or old electronics inside (other than going into the SM). I bought the set through a friend who owns a local AV store. He bought one for the floor and one for me and the other day we experimented a bit after I told him I was none to happy with the pic on my set. Basically I wasn't happy with shadows and there was color banding and blotchiness fromm SD satelite and some DVD's and I was constantly playing with contrast, etc.

First, we played Monsters Inc. DVD through a Compaq computer with a 128mb GeForce 4 video board, DVI out. And the picture was amazing, very close to HD.

Then we played a DVD through a $1000 Sony DVD. Monsters Inc. looked almost as good. Then we put in a DVD, forget the name but it's an Imax pic of auto racing. There were all sorts of artifacts as the camera panned the track... he told me this is one of those DVD's that's a monster for most DVD's and TV's. There was no banding, colors looked good but the artifacts were very annoying. Jaggies and the like. We played with the many setting on the player, and were able to get rid of most artifacts, but they were still subtle imperfections.

Then we ran the same DVD through a $100 Sony DVD player. Same artifacts, but this deck had little adjustment so the only way to correct was to softened the pic on the TV with the resulting loss of PQ.

Then we played the Race DVD back in the computer and guess what. The picture was flawless, no artifacts at all at factory defaults.

(BTW though all the players were progressive, we fed the set I and let the TV upconvert.)

And like everyone else, I've experienced some channels, SD, pretty good on this set and others bad, with lots of evidence of compression. Also problems with shadows and "sunburnt" faces on some channels. You can tweek all you want but here's the conclusion I've reached.

This television is very sensitive to source. If you feed it an incredible source, you will get a pretty amazing picture. If the source is less than good, so will be the picture. And by source I mean this. It not only matters what DVD player your using, but the quality of the DVD itself, the transfer, how the DP shot, etc. Whether your connected to your source through DVI or component, etc. This TV seems to want all digital with as little compression as possible. It does not do very well with compression from SD satelite. This television does not seem to do a good job processing a less than perfect signal or source.

I'm wondering how good the tuner in the TV is as well, as I'm actually on a local Cable net fed by Direct TV at my condo. The SAT receivers are all in the basement so I'm running cable straight into the set. My former set (36"Sony Wega) looked very good with this feed.

As a means of comparison, I just installed a $10k Infocus projector in a media room in a house I built for a client, and its OOTB was dramatically better, even with SD satelite and a 110" picture.

I'm actually thinking of building a computer with a high end graphics card and a TV tuner in it, and connecting all through DVI and going with that. Could do for around $1000.

Comments?

Mike
post #69 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by TV2000
Actually, the AUTOCOLOR option I'm talking about is in the SM under AD9883 (Component/480P). It's the last option, just before AD_RESET. Which leads me to another question. Does anyone know what AD_RESET and/or AUTOCOLOR does. Anyone with a service manual out there!!! An answer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

I've got a service manual, and it seems to have been a waste of money. I haven't examined it real closely, but there appears to be little to nothing about the service menu. It's mostly flow diagrams for repair, parts lists, and high-level schematics. I wonder where the service menu stuff is actually documented.

Dean
post #70 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by Trilogy
I'm actually thinking of building a computer with a high end graphics card and a TV tuner in it, and connecting all through DVI and going with that. Could do for around $1000.
Mike

I'm going to try a HiPix card as soon as I can get a HLN567. I'm interested in how you make out with your HDPC.

I had a HLM507 and the Samsung 160 STB for a trial. I didn't try DirecTV but did use it for OTA SD & HD signals. The best results I found with SD were the digital broadcasts. Even with Digital OTA I would see sunburned faces in the evening news studio shots. When the program would switch to field shots or other sources the sunburn would go away.
post #71 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by dwette
I've got a service manual, and it seems to have been a waste of money. I haven't examined it real closely, but there appears to be little to nothing about the service menu. It's mostly flow diagrams for repair, parts lists, and high-level schematics. I wonder where the service menu stuff is actually documented.

Dean

Cool, thanks for the update on the SM, Dean. I am glad I didn't go ahead and order it for the HLN617W yet. I emailed them about a price quote and if they had it Friday. Guess it won't be much help if your experience is anything to go by.

Thanks and regards,
Jeff
post #72 of 1751
Thanks for the update. It sounds like we have the same TV. I would be VERY interested to hear what you build and how it works. I'm thinking of trying a basic HTPC setup by just using my Radeon AIW 7500 DVI with a cheapo DVD player as a test to see if the banding in faces goes away. I don't like the idea of having to add a HTPC to my AV collection just to get a good DVD picture on my new DLP but if that's what it takes ....

Quote:


Originally posted by Trilogy
I'm actually thinking of building a computer with a high end graphics card and a TV tuner in it, and connecting all through DVI and going with that. Could do for around $1000.

Comments?

Mike
post #73 of 1751
I was going to build a PC as part of the AV system for the m507. Went to CompUSA and found a custom box with a 64mb Radeon card with DVI out and decided to go for it for around $899 with upgraded audio card with optical out. Rather than going for an expensive stand alone DVD player, decided on this because it could also be used for internet surfing. Also bought a wireless mouse and keyboard. The mouse is kind of cool as it can be held up like a remote and doesn't have to be rolled across a surface to direct the pointer. Would like to find a vid card with a DVI in that could be used as a passthrough, to allow a HDTV receiver to connect throught he PC thus allowing two DVI connects.

The DVD picture is superb through the DVI. 9.5 out of possible 10. And the software controls available in Power DVD are much better than those of a stand alone DVD. Also, surfing the net is great (with a wireless network connection.) I wish the DVI could be displayed PIP, as it would be nice to have a web page or e-mail up while watching tube, but I guess it can't. There is no more banding or color issues, everything clear and crisp.

Had the option of going with a Windows Media PC, but decided against because of price and lack of DVI out on most models...

The 5.1 sound is good not great... turn the sound down on the PC and let the AV amp do the work to reduce hiss, etc.

Mike
post #74 of 1751
Except I believe his is the "M" one, not the "N" one. If they ever get a real "N" one out would somebody please report details here? I've already bought the "M" one and Samsung switched my internals on me and an e-mail asking about a swap of manuals was ignored.

Quote:


Originally posted by Iceblade
Cool, thanks for the update on the SM, Dean. I am glad I didn't go ahead and order it for the HLN617W yet.
post #75 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by turls
Except I believe his is the "M" one, not the "N" one. If they ever get a real "N" one out would somebody please report details here? I've already bought the "M" one and Samsung switched my internals on me and an e-mail asking about a swap of manuals was ignored.

Correct, Matt. However, my "guess" was that since absolutely nothing changed from the "M" to the "N" with regards to the 61" set, the manuals wouldn't change either. Tech companies tend not to like to create more work for themselves than they absoulutely HAVE to. Not sure that I blame them. I'm of a like mind with you, though. If someone DOES actually get an "N" manual... let us know if it is worth diddly squat.

Thanks,
Jeff
post #76 of 1751
I'd tend to agree except for the fact that HLN and HLM had significant hardware and firmware differences. And they botched the initial attempt at a HLM manual, so there is a lot of room for improvement. Somebody stated the only useful thing in the 507W manual was the bulb replacement instructions. In fact, even those are woefully incomplete
post #77 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by turls
I'd tend to agree except for the fact that HLN and HLM had significant hardware and firmware differences. And they botched the initial attempt at a HLM manual, so there is a lot of room for improvement. Somebody stated the only useful thing in the 507W manual was the bulb replacement instructions. In fact, even those are woefully incomplete

Hey Matt... I'm just a little confused with your first sentence. My comment above was related specifically to the 61" models. We're you talking about the non-61" models with regards to your "significant hardware and firmware differences"? Most of the other 61" owners having either the HLM or HLN versions have the exact same hardware, and in most case, the exact same firmware, rev. 204. Did I miss something?

In regards to the bulb stuff... I THINK that this was one of the only updates in the User's Guide with regards to the HLM vs. HLN models. I am pretty sure I saw a "Bulb Replacement" section in the user's guide I got pertaining to ALL the HLN models. I can check tonight to verify, but I am like 95% sure that I saw that.

Thanks,
Jeff
post #78 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by Iceblade
Correct, Matt. However, my "guess" was that since absolutely nothing changed from the "M" to the "N" with regards to the 61" set, the manuals wouldn't change either

Incidently, the service manual I got isn't just for the HLM617W, it's for all of the HLM models.

Dean
post #79 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by dwette
Incidently, the service manual I got isn't just for the HLM617W, it's for all of the HLM models.

Dean

Now THAT makes abso-friggin-lutely no sense whatsoever?!?!??!

Are there separate circuit diagrams and stuff for each tv? This is pretty darn confusing since the guts of the 61" vary by a fairly large degree according to most everything we have read and seen.

Well, I guess since there is no discussion of the service menu anyway, other than different circuit diagrams, it would probably not bbe COMPLETELY insane to put all the "M" models in a single service manual.

Still... pretty freaky.

Thanks for the update, Dean.

Later,
Jeff
post #80 of 1751
Well, I finally got a copy of Avia and have now spent many hours with it. Just FYI, I have an Elite DV47Ai feeding my HLM617 in progressive mode through an Elite 49TXi receiver into the Component 3 input.

I have to preface by saying that I have been an a/v and electronics hobbiest since I was about 10 years old, and most would describe my attention to detail as bordering on anal. So maybe I'm "losing it" as I get older, or maybe I'm just lucky, but I simply don't see the kinds of problems with this set that have reported by others on the Forums, including rainbows or banding. I've looked carefully at just about every test pattern offered on Avia, and have read (or listened to) all of their related instructions. Perhaps with test equipment I'd see areas for improvement, but with just my Lasik-corrected 20/20 vision in a dark room, I find the "out of the box" performance of the 617 to be outstanding.

In fact, it was very hard to find the 'right' settings in many cases. For example, they talk about setting white level by looking for things like blooming or over-saturation or widening of the pattern. On the 617, I can run contrast from one extreme to the other and not see any of these artifacts. And there are no problems like bending of the needle pulses that are tell-tales with CRT displays, either. Same thing with many of the other adjustments like sharpness; with a DLP it seems to be more a matter of personal preference than tweaking around display limitations.

Anyway, here are the user menu settings I finally arrived at:
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 35
Color: 74
Tint: 40/60 (ie, to left of 50/50 center)

I ended up leaving color tone at 'normal' after experimenting with the other settings. The only setting where my eyes sometimes conflict with Avia is for 'color' - I tend to prefer it somewhat lower than Avia recommends (maybe 45-50), especially when watching SD material. I find that imperfect sources like Dish tend to make color look oversaturated, so reducing color intensity a bit improves the overall image.

Frankly, both the test patterns and the actual picture look good enough to me that even as an inveterate 'tweaker' I am loathe to touch the SM settings. Even the gamma test pattern on Avia seems to display exactly as their instructions say is correct. There is zero 'red push'. Geometry looks perfect. Overscan seems to be about 2-3%, which is acceptable to me. The other test patterns just seem to display the way they are intended to look.

I know that Video Essentials keeps promising a new version that is better tailored to non-CRT TV's, but until then, I just don't a way to improve things all that much.

So maybe I'm missing something, but my time with Avia merely strengthens my belief that there is no other set I'd rather have at this moment than the Samsung. Sure, I'd love to have slightly better black levels -- but there is absolutely no way I'd trade off all the other advantages of this set to get them.

Rob
post #81 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by Iceblade
Are there separate circuit diagrams and stuff for each tv? This is pretty darn confusing since the guts of the 61" vary by a fairly large degree according to most everything we have read and seen.

Well, I guess since there is no discussion of the service menu anyway, other than different circuit diagrams, it would probably not bbe COMPLETELY insane to put all the "M" models in a single service manual.

All,

My HLM617W was swapped out last week with a brand new HLN617W. The remote appears to be the same, and the manual didn't seem to have any additional content (which makes sense since it just touches on the user interface stuff anyway, none of which has changed).

I do have newer firmware: T-B3K6101-208 dated March 17 2003 11:08:50

-John
post #82 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by johnevo
All,

My HLM617W was swapped out last week with a brand new HLN617W. The remote appears to be the same, and the manual didn't seem to have any additional content (which makes sense since it just touches on the user interface stuff anyway, none of which has changed).

I do have newer firmware: T-B3K6101-208 dated March 17 2003 11:08:50

-John

John,

Do you have the manual with you right now? If so, can you verify for me that it does, indeed, have a new section that the HLM version did not... that being the part about bulb replacement. I THINK it might be near the back, perhaps even in an appendix or something, but I am almost CERTAIN I saw a pic of accessing the bulb assembly and such.

Thanks,
Jeff
post #83 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by Iceblade
John,

Do you have the manual with you right now? If so, can you verify for me that it does, indeed, have a new section that the HLM version did not... that being the part about bulb replacement. I THINK it might be near the back, perhaps even in an appendix or something, but I am almost CERTAIN I saw a pic of accessing the bulb assembly and such.

Thanks,
Jeff

Naw, it's at home. But I'll check it and let you know tonight. I didn't spend much time in the manual since it looked so much like the old one.

I did notice a new sticker on the left-hand side of the TV that mentioned something about the bulb.

-John
post #84 of 1751
Iceblade: I don't have the same set you guys are talking about but the manual that came with my HLN4365W does show how to change the bulb.

How's your Avia tweaks coming?

Mark
post #85 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by markarwes
Iceblade: I don't have the same set you guys are talking about but the manual that came with my HLN4365W does show how to change the bulb.

How's your Avia tweaks coming?

Mark

Mark,

Busy weekend with baby shower stuff and baby room stuff... didn't get a chance to tweak at all. I still need to put up the 16:9 Geometry pattern and measure just how awful the geometry is. Also, I tweaked the normal user menu stuff with Avia last week... but forgot to post my results. Man, setting color and tint with VE or Avia is still a total beotch to me. And I still put forth that sharpness is totally useless on this TV. There was no difference from 0 to 100 or whatever.

I DID notice an oddity with the contrast I think. I will post about it tonight if I get a chance to tweak at all. Gots to setup VPN for my wife tonight... could be a long night.

Later,
Jeff
post #86 of 1751
Jeff,
The HLM sharpness changess only twice. Between 9-13 and somewhere in the 80s. I've never had sharpness up to the 80s, but I can tell you when looking at the Avia sharpness test when you adjust down around 13-9 you can see a very clear change in sharpness. See if you HLN does this.
Is this your 1st? I have two: 9 and 6. Kids make you younger and happier!


Regards,
Mark
post #87 of 1751
Iceblade: I guess congrats are in order. Good luck with the new arrival. Oh, and the DLP tweaking.

Mark
post #88 of 1751
My HLN507W arrived on Friday.

The manual does indeed have a section on bulb replacement. A section, and an addendum, in fact.

I'm having the Clay faces and banding issues, but am not yet convinced that this isn't my source material (cheapie DVD player).

Don't have an HD source hooked up yet. TW is working on that.
post #89 of 1751
Quote:


Originally posted by Mark@Ct
Jeff,
The HLM sharpness changess only twice. Between 9-13 and somewhere in the 80s. I've never had sharpness up to the 80s, but I can tell you when looking at the Avia sharpness test when you adjust down around 13-9 you can see a very clear change in sharpness. See if you HLN does this.
Is this your 1st? I have two: 9 and 6. Kids make you younger and happier!


Regards,
Mark

Mark & Mark,

I went through every single setting on both VE and Avia for the sharpness stuff, paying attention to the 9-15 area especially... couldn't tell a single thing on my HLN617W. I seriously am at the point where I just may PAY someone here in the office to come over and verify my sanity!!!

At the risk in incurring other forum member's wrath by talking about anything other than rear projection units, I'll close the discussion on kids by saying, "Yes... it is our first. Thanks for the well wishes." Let's just say, one or two other members got a tad uppity that my "life" had intruded on their precious informational forum.

FWIW, once I get done dealing with spousal computer issues, I will attempt to hang out with the Avia disc again and post my results.

Thanks,
Jeff
post #90 of 1751
Jeff -

Neither my wife nor I could see a single bit of difference in sharpness settings on our HLN507W using the Avia test pattern this weekend.

Your sanity may still be in question, but not because of this.
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