Binghamton / Elmira, NY - HDTV - Page 100

Dang!! There were answers to questions that I wouldn't even have thought of.

Thanks for all the information, I was wondering why WITV was so far ahead of the other locals with graphics and 16x9.

What other stations are you working with in upstate NY?

I'm wondering if it is even possible to broadcast a 1080i and 720p signal together?
And keep the PQ acceptable? How much would the 1080i suffer if the bit rate were reduced in order to bring a 480i up to 720p. I'm thinking WBNG with The CW. I'd at least like to see The CW in letterboxed 16:9 instead of it being cropped to 4:3.

Since it has been proven that two 720p feeds can be sent, then WICZ (Fox40) could do the same with MyNetwork, right?

Apparently not. The engineers from Harris were pretty emphatic that both feeds need to be 720p -- at least for the NetVX encoder.

There are a couple of issues with this. First, CW is actually distributed to affiliates in 1080i... so the station is already doing a downconversion to get it to SD. Personally, I would just convert both the CBS and CW feeds to 720p and air both in HD... but it does get into some expense for conversion gear, switching, and encoding.

CW content is designed to be center-cut safe, so if you do downconvert it from 1080i to 480i center-cut, it yields very good SD at 640x480 resolution. But if you downconvert it to 480i letterbox, you are throwing away a considerable amount of detail to save those sidebars... the active picture area winds up becoming 640x360 pixels, if my quick math is right... this isn't going to look too wonderful when somebody's widescreen set stretches it back out.

Fox is something of a special case: while most networks supply satellite receivers that give you an uncompressed HD serial digital output to feed your switching and graphics gear, Fox uses a technique called stream splicing. The idea is, the station doesn't actually decode the compressed feed from the network, but switches between that and the encoded compressed feed from the local insertion gear. This wouldn't take advantage of the efficiencies of Harris's new encoders, so my guess is that it probably wouldn't work unless the station decoded the Fox feed, and did switching and re-encoding in a more traditional way.

I've had only limited experience with the Fox system at our Memphis station, so there might be other solutions to this by now.

Thanks again. MyNetwork doesn't have anything that I'm interested in. Just the technical aspects interest me.

As for The CW, I thought that there were two versions. One for cable only and one for OTA. Ours here originally was The WB100, now The CW. This may have changed.

First of all, I'd like to take a moment to welcome you to AVS Forum. Welcome.

CW provides two different services. The main CW service is, as you state, in 1080i and has to be converted to SD. However, in markets smaller than the top 100, the CW provides an SD-only feed known as CW+, which is pre-programmed with syndication. The local station simply adds local spots.

Markets like Binghamton which are getting CW+ do not get CW in HD.

- Trip

Wow! Thanks for all this great info! Not only do you take the time to provide this info, but you explain it in a way that non-engineers can understand. All this DTV and HDTV stuff has kinda made me wish I went to school for broadcast engineering or something. Thanks for all the feedback.

Thanks for pointing that out. As it happens, our regional facility here in Syracuse operates both a CW station (Rochester) and a CW+ (Watertown)... I was thinking that Binghamton's (not one of our stations) was full-blown CW, and answered the question on that basis.

We are the regional hub for WSYR-TV (Syracuse ABC / Independent), WHAM-TV (Rochester ABC / CW), WWTI (Watertown ABC / CW+), WIVT (Binghamton ABC), WBGH (Binghamton NBC), and WETM (Elmira NBC / Independent).

We interconnect the stations through a fiberoptic network that, among other things, gives each station live access to feeds coming from other stations. For instance, after last April's mass-shooting in Binghamton, we pooled WIVT's resources with WSYR's to provide live coverage to the whole region -- and uplinked much of it to ABC.

It's not exactly a traditional model for a television station, but it has given us a huge boost technically... among other things, it made it practical to provide ABC and NBC in HD to markets like Binghamton for these past six years or so (NBC originally through Time Warner, and now over the air as well). It also gave us an enormous amount of experience very early in the curve, before many people were watching!

I wonder if Binghamton's CW could ever be upgraded from its CW + status?

Convince a million of your closest friends to move to Binghamton.

- Trip

If I had a million friends I wouldn't be living here.

I have a question about indoor antenna's. I am looking for a decent indoor antenna (VHF/UHF)

Will the Terk HDTVi antenna work for this area since its directional? Accoring to tvfool the broadcast towers are 6 miles from me.

Another note on MNT/WBPN, a couple years ago they put out an application for a signal on digital 23, and they have a construction permit for 15kW, but who knows if they are even planning to or even working on that, or have any plans for HD feed of MNT.

The antenna needs to receive chs 7, 8, 34, and 42. I'm a little over 9 miles from the towers, but because of Crocker Hill in the way I'm using this one.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku=

At six miles a good indoor might work quite well for you, providingf you have a clear shot to the towers.

if you post your tvfool.com report it will be easier to recommend an antenna for your area, though you are close geography can play a big roll like JD stated.

Just one more question if I may: are there any plans on converting WIVT 34.1 to DD 5.1 audio? I assume WBGH 34.2 is also currently 2.0 audio - any plans to convert it to 5.1?

Ok here is the report link you wanted to see sustorm.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...27ee2f3561f08d

That's an item for the "future projects" list... no immediate idea when it will happen.

One of the complicating factors is that our facility is multi-format, and receives a number of different network feeds, each of which implements 5.1 audio differently. Right now, the most practical solution would be to break every source's audio to discrete channels and re-encode those to Dolby E, and re-embed that into the video for switching and processing. Otherwise, we would have channel mapping changing on a source-by-source basis, which is obviously not acceptable. We also need to deal with issues like metadata, which is information that accompanies source audio and describes things like how loud the audio is, the native format, the sort of programming it is (which can inform audio processors of how to best handle varying levels)... and so forth.

Over the last year, both ABC and NBC changed how they distribute their feeds to affiliates, with some core hardware replacement at every affiliate... and we're starting to get a better sense of where other feeds are headed as far as audio protocols are concerned. Until everything gets shaken out, we're concentrating on delivering audio in the most reliable way, with attention to making levels as consistent as possible. To this point, given the constraints of our facility it's essentially a choice between doing 5.1 poorly, versus doing 2.0 well... and for right now we're opting for the latter.

based on your TVfool report just about anything should pick up all the binghamton stations. That antenna should do it without a problem. I am using the Terk HDTVO and I am receiving all the binghamton stations and both WSYT and WNYS out of Syracuse with the antenna in my attic
You can pick this up online or at Unicorn Elec in JC.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...27eed064fc92ba

http://unicornelex.com/search.php?PH...chstring=hdtvo

Well that explains that very nicely. Thanks again so much!

I think about the only thing you haven't done for us is invite us for a tour!

Thank you for the info, i try out the Terk HDTVi and see what my results are.

If it doesn't work i get the outdoor antenna.

Could I possible bug you for one more thing in regards to 34.2?

As a Directv (abbreviated D*) customer, I rely on an antenna to get my locals. The D* HD DVR does not scan for off air channels like every other TV or DVR does; instead you enter your ZIP code in the DVR's antenna setup, and then D* gives you the list of OTA channels it has in it's database for that ZIP. (Why they do this I have no idea.)

The D* OTA database uses data provided by Tribune Media Services, which owns the online www.zap2it.com TV listings. So basically, until 34.2 shows up on the zap2it.com listings for the Binghamton area ZIP codes, D* customers will not be able to tune to channel 34.2 (see http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti...&zipcode=13850). I have asked Tribune to add 34.2 to their online listings, but so far they have not done it yet. (Usually in the past they have been very responsive when I've sent them OTA changes/additions.)

Could you make sure the new 34.2 info is sent to the appropriate person at Tribune? I'd really love to watch 34.2 for myself. Any help you can provide is appreciated. Thanks.

I started the ball rolling on that on Tuesday... no idea how long it normally takes them, or how long it takes for updated data to propagate down to home receivers.

Thanks!

And to answer the question on why DirecTV relies on the zip code. It's so the guide can include the show descriptions. Why not allow both methods is anyone's guess.

I'll try an antenna setup on my HR20 this weekend. Or after I see a change on Zap2It.

Hey thanks! That's when my contact said she formally requested 34.2 be added too. It's never taken them this long in the past though. I was really looking forward to being able to watch it this weekend. I guess I'll have to wait until next week as I doubt they work on it over the weekend.

I wonder if the delay is because 34-2 isn't official until 3/8, based on the FCC filing mentioned previously.

You're referring to a pending application for the class-A analog on channel 20... that really doesn't have any connection to what we put on digital 34, at least as far as cable and satellite providers are concerned. Basically, the issue is just that the folks who generate the data aren't local and don't know what's going on unless someone explictly tells them.

This remote stuff gets really old sometimes... I get calls occasionally from some fellow in Colorado or somewhere who wants to know if we're off the air. Apparently it's a company that does remote monitoring around the country. Turns out they put their equipment in a part of the city that is behind a hill from our tower, so their signal quality is marginal...

I sent them another email about 34-2, hopefully we see it on the OTA list soon.

I wonder how long it takes DirecTV to update their database once Zap2It does their's?
Hopefully, it's automated!!!!`