Seattle, WA - OTA - Page 260

Hey Hi Def !
No superpowers, just too much time on the roof!
Did you get the KOMO prob sorted?
Dan

A couple of reasons why the high VHF stations on digital may be more challenging to receive now are...
1. they are subject to reflections more easily than the UHF station signals are.
2. regarding why the test periods on early mornings gave good reception but not now.....daytime terrestrial noise....much more prevalent with the the sun shining. I found that during the night tests I not only could receive the VHF stations in Seattle but could pick up other digital stations that never come in during the daytime, like KVOS, KBCB and even some analog stations from Canada...that are there at night...but nowhere to be found during daylight.

Dan K....I believe you live about a half mile north of me in FW. Again, I had to fiddle with my Televe UHF only antenna in an attic, but I do get all three high V stations...albeit they are only half the signal strength of the U's.

Ron D.
CE, KSTW

The Zenith has an option for stereo or mono output (surf around in the menu for it). The mono output may be about twice as loud for you.

With the switch to VHF, I had lost 9, 11 and 13 on my WMC machine. I assumed it was the tuner because my d2a converter boxes didn't have any problems with the transition. Turned out to be software. I'm now using TV Pack 2008 and now I'm getting 9, 11, 13 and 33 (as well as the rest of the big stations).

So, no change to CM 4221 antenna, no change to tuners, I'm a happy camper.

The other big change with TV Pack 2008 is that instead of the inane numbering scheme

1041, 1042, 1051, 1052, ...

you get the same number scheme everybody else uses

4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2,...

and you get the guide information for all of the sub-channels without having to hack the registry.

After I made the switch last night, I discovered that I lost KING and KONG ("Twas beauty that killed the beast"). A little troubleshooting revealed that analog 5 (nightlight), digital 5 and digital 16 all went off the air last night around the same time that I made the switch.

Omni pattern - cut 13 antenna

Can anyone give me advice on receiving local channels in Issaquah? Specifically on the sound end of Lake Samammish just north of I-90 (South Cove area). Most of the resources online indicate that it would be difficult if not impossible to get all four major networks. Any help would be appreciated. I don't want to waste time and energy on it if it is a going to be a fruitless effort.

Dan, did you mean circular polarization?

From where I am, roughly 47.77 & -122.24, it works fine mounting on the roof directly into the dense of some huge maples about 40ft away. 13 is a bit weaker than the old 18, 9 and 11 seem stronger than their old selves (but don't hold me to it.) 22 seems choppy, an older TV (gen 2 tuner?) could not tune to it.

Side note: I had to reset one of my sets (Panasonic) before rescanning as it remembered the olds and got mixed up left and right. If you have to do the same, remember to write down your setting unless you want to mug around with those again.

KCTS's signal, other than the lineup, is identical to what we were doing during the tests.

Darn, I've got the old version. I just bit the bullet and ordered the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 Highband-Broadband VHF HD Yagi for Channels 7-13 (Y5-7-13). It was cheap and known to work in my area.

I'll report back my results once it shows up and I install it.

I set up my HT about a year ago and dropped DirecTV and just used Netflix instead. It's been working out great, but since I'm getting a new PC soon, I decided I should add an OTA antenna to take advantage of the media center functionality. (Using my Xbox 360 as the media extender.) Missing the NBA playoffs has caused me to re-think my Netflix-only strategy.

I tried to do some due diligence reading on the forums but got lost very quickly. I'm hoping someone can tell me:

1. What antenna I should get
2. If there is any other equipment I need. For example, I assume I need some kind of tuner in the new PC, but are there any preferred types/things to look for?

Here is the signal strength map for my home: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c534b316e2765b.

Since I don't like having to settle, I'd like to get as many channels as I can. I'm planning on installing this on my roof.

If there's any other info that you would need to help with suggestions, please let me know.



I posted the same question in HDTV Technical, but I thought there might be a Puget Sound area factor I need to take into consideration, with all of the tall trees, recent windstorms, etc. Someone from that forum recommended a Winegard 7694 for the antenna, but I wanted to see if anyone disagreed with that. For the tuner, I got a recommendation for a dual tuner Hauppauge.



Thanks!

LOL, yeah, I don't think anyone has all this stuff figured out yet.

No, not sorted yet, the set still tries to scan DTV 4-0 vs 4-1 for some reason. I haven't quite figured out how to digest that FCC info allen linked to (thanks btw allen) as far as before and after rollover comparisons, but I figured someone here would know if KOMO changed the way they're broadcasting and how.

I just don't get why I got it in fine before, but not now. Since lots of stations are fluctuating in power levels and going from VHF to UHF though, that might explain it.

If I can't find out more here or from the engineers at KOMO, I'll probably just try the little UHF/rabbit antenna Radio Shack suggested. They were all sold out except for the display model, but are getting more in this week.

Sadly I've noticed in the last couple days my reception on other channels has faded, even on weekends, when I usually get good reception. KONG (16.1) and even NBC and CBS are getting more finicky on how I position my antenna cable. KONG just won't come in at all sometimes now, in fact most of the time moving the cable does no good.

Can't wait until our apt building gets the satellite service they're promising. There will no doubt be many growing pains with OTA until then.

Just got back from a long weekend vacationing, and now I can confirm that I will need to make some modification to my set-up in order to once again receive channels 9 and 11. None of my receivers will even pick up a hint of a signal... although the Samsung DTB-H260F did "pause" for a few seconds on channel 9 while scanning, maybe it smelled something and gave up.

Anyhow, I'm currently using a Channel Master 4228 antenna and a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. I'm hoping that getting a VHF antenna http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=Y5-7-13 may be all I need. But, can I use my 7777 to combine the signal? If so, do I need to keep the antennas a certain distance apart? Use the same length of coax to each antenna?

Any advice appreciated! Thanks!

OK, just got off the phone with Trent the engineer at KOMO. He said they haven't changed anything in the way they broadcast (except shutting off the analog I guess). His guess was I'm getting too much signal and a small loop/rabbit antenna with attenuator may indeed help.

What I don't get is, why, if they haven't changed anything, I would be getting too much signal now, but not before? Unless of course the previous simulcast of analog and HD resulted in less power on the HD signal. Anyways, I'll report back as to whether the little Radio Shack antenna works.

I just added that same VHF-Hi antenna to my CM4248 UHF antenna, all mounted in my attic. The antennas are actually only a few feet apart, which isn't ideal. And the CM7777 Pre-Amp does indeed have separate VHF and UHF inputs. There's a switch inside that lets you set the preamp to either combine or seperate those inputs.

So far I'm getting 9, 11, and 13 with strong signals at about the same readings as "pre-VHF" days on my DirecTV HD DVRs and HR10-250 Tivo off-air tuners.

Quick question for Ron at KSTW (or anyone else who might know!)

I rescanned ANALOG today, becuase I wanted to see this "nightlight" loop playing on KING & KBTC. As expected, I got to see the promo video on KING & KBTC. The grainy signal I've always seen from CKVU was better than I remember it being...

Then my set locked on, solid, to a grainy, but watchable analog Channel 11... on Channel 62?! Are you guys still running an analog translator somewhere?

Dan, if you do try the mod, it would be good to get some "before" and "after" signal measurements on 9, 11, and 13 with your gear to compare to the antenna modeling software. I was not able to do it before the switch over from UHF to VHF due to equipment limitations.

Richard

K62FS is a translator station for KSTW in Port Townsend

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=K62FS

Speaking of which, when are the low powered analog stations required to vacate channels 52 through 69?

Here is a list of Translators in the area: http://members.shaw.ca/nwbroadcasters/tvxlatorswa.htm

K62FS ch 62 is broadcasting from Port Townsend.

I thought all channels above 52 (700 MHz) were sold, so I wonder how much longer those channels will be there.

Wow. I'm a bit surprised to see that in my neighborhood.

I'm a few hundred feet north of the towers on Capitol Hill!

Thanks for the info.

Thanks for the quick reply! Looks like I'll have to get that VHF antenna and spend some time on the roof. Oh well, at least it's not February and raining all the time...

Ron
I'm just at the crest of the 13th fairway, and can see the top of the Columbia Tower downtown, if I stand out in the fairway, but house sits back in the trees just a little bit. Enough it makes the Tiger Mt ch's chopped up a bit and hard to lock on. Don't watch them, but keep tabs on the readings.

I did my measurements around midnight, not too far off, timewise, from when you did your first test. What I thought you said then was power was at 20%, or some small amount. I was getting at least 10db higher then, and locked solid. Below about -15db or so, my sat box whimps out. Your waveshape is very close to previous, too. Nothing here has changed.....

Oh, well. Heading over to Duvall Friday, should be interesting to see what it looks like there, now.
Thanks again for the updates.
Dan

I'm a bit disgusted at the surprise switch to VHF by 9, 11 and 13 last Friday. I wrote them the following, but doubt it will do much good:

I've been watching your digital stations for several years.
I live in Marysville and have a 30' high mast and a deep fringe UHF antenna and mast mounted UHF amplifier.
It has taken me several years to get just the right antenna and accessories positioned just right to reliably receive the available digital channels in the Seattle area. Channels 9 and 13 have always been among the strongest signals with 11 becoming reliable within the last 3 years or so.

However, with the switch to digital on June 12, your channels 9, 11 and 13 went dark.
Apparently you switched from a UHF digital broadcast signal to VHF.
In all the repetitive advertising over the last year about the change, you never mentioned that key piece of information on air!

Viewers, like myself with a UHF antenna must buy a UHF/VHF antenna if we want to watch your programming.

Unfortunately, combination antennas don't have the maximum range of a UHF only antenna - not to mention that I would have to buy a new amplifier as well. Also, I'm reluctant to risk a degradation of the signal from the other major stations (4,5,7). As it is, when my neighbor mows his lawn once a week, my audio and video begin to break up. I'm not so concerned about the other channels (the religious stations, Spanish stations, Korean stations and shopping channel which have always had an excellent signal strength here but have programming that doesn't interest most viewers.)

Have you considered UHF repeaters in local areas, or making boxed DVD sets of your popular shows available to local libraries?

Well I can now say that I'm starting to feel people's pain on 13, after initially thinking I was getting it in solid. Every time I try to get in 13 now, I will get at best steady video, usually with no audio, and my TV will keep turning itself on and off. Worse yet, while this takes place, my remote doesn't work, so I have to just sit there until I can finally switch to another channel when it does start working again. This is utterly ridiculous.

Years and years have gone by since stations were first preparing for digital broadcast. They assured the government and consumers they were ready for the rollover. Instead of using what they knew to be working while the analog/digital simulcasts were being broadcast, they choose to experiment for the rollover.

Where tell me is the sense in this? All along the government has said we were not ready because not enough consumers had prepared and/or bought into the technology. Little did we know the ones least prepared would be those broadcasting. Sorry for sounding sarcastic and pessimistic, but you have to admit there's a lot of truth in these words.

I'm tempted to look for a cable deal while I wait for our building to get satellite, but I really don't want to buy into Broadstripe's service and be endlessly pestered with them trying to get me to sign back up after I end the service, which is overpriced and inadequate to begin with. If Broadstripe weren't the only service available here though, I'd consider it.

brad880
Been there, done that. Have tried all around you, very hit/miss. Have several along the eastern shore at SE 33rd, and SE 26th. Barely work, and one has lost some channels over the years as trees on west hill/Factoria area have grown. Surveys west of the park and north of I-90 were pretty bad.
As always, never say never, but I would try and talk you out of it. It might work with right magic, but the trees, west up the hill to 156th, aren't getting smaller and fewer......
Dan

KCPQ-ACE
Thanks
Dan

Spike89
Yes, like a corkscrew looking at the transmit antenna. Back in the early 80's, I think (getting harder to do!) when ch13 moved to Gold Mt, they started doing it. Regular antennas with horizontal elements just didn't get a ghost free picture. I even had a cut for ch13, 15 element, 12ft long boom mounted on top of the Pike Place Market Condo's, 20 stories up, looking right across the Sound, line of sight. No matter what I tried, ghosting. Swing it around to ch7, 9 or 11, clear and clean. When I had a British made Blake JBX21 antenna for testing, I flipped it around to ch13, and looked at the analog channel, almost perfect. I was in West Seattle at the time, so it worked pretty good by being close. Key was the X type elements. After CH13 made the move, Channel Master had a special antenna, 6ft boom with about 6 or 8 X-type elements and a similar pickup, with another larger rear backplane, again rotated. At the time, had very few requests for the add on and signal injector. A few years later they stopped making it. In all the installs over the subsequent years where I should have had a good clean analog ch13, it never came in quite right. It DID look good with the special antenna.
I was told by the engineer at the time, the reason for circular was that was the way they did it in Europe and it helped to get rid of ghosting by reducing reflections and other problems.

So, that's why the question. Since ch13 used ch18 for HD, haven't looked at the analog at all. Now that they've switched, just wondered how they were doing it. Always want to try and maximize the reception with the proper type antenna.
Dan

tschall
I thought that was the what you had mentioned last fall, but results now are puzzling. I've ordered some new hi-band VHF stuff to play with, along with some new combo models to try.
Gonna be interesting to see what works where. Sure makes the game more fun, though.
Keep you posted on what works.
Thanks for the info.
Dan

dla26
What's your nearest cross streets?
Dan

Richard
Will do!
Dan