Seattle, WA - OTA - Page 324

mickey79
Although your'e pretty high in elevation, the hill to the NW is still almost a hundred feet higher. It also means the signal is coming at you pretty low on the horizon. The Tiger Mt stations are far higher, allowing you to get over a lot of those trees.
If you could get the antenna near a northern window, you might be able to pick up KIRO's translator. Towards the west, you could probably pickup KBTC 28, a PBS station. Of course, you could try an amp, like one from RatShack. If nothing works, at least you can take it back.
I did a survey just 50 yards west of the strip mall at 216th and Kent Kangley. He was right on the edge of the hill, but still had a lot of trees there, and it was a lot tougher than it looks.
Buy your next house in a better location! Shoot me an address and I'll let you know how it looks.
Dan

I hope you can give me some more help, Dan.

I periodically rescan for channels just because & one day about 3 weeks or so ago I did pick up channel 11 as well as 44.5, Weather Nation, even got KVOS & its sub-channel. Unfortunately, by that evening I could no longer get it. It gave me hope, so I had my son replace the balun - no luck. So, since the antenna looked a bit flimsy & had a couple of bent pieces, I ordered the HB55 from Solid Signal. My son installed it this morning & still no luck. I had him tilt the antenna a bit but that didn't work. What is so frustrating is that I did get it briefly but can't do it again.

PeggyD
What you are fighting is all those trees and Cedar Mt. The brief periods of reception is when the branches move just enough out of the way to let some get through. It's a very hit and miss thing. About the only thing to ty now is different locations around the house. It may not take much. a foot or two in any direction can make a difference. Patience is the key. You need to do a scan after each location. Very time consuming, I know. That's why I use a meter. Even then it takes a lot of trial and error to find the sweet spot when it's a tough location. Wish I could give you an easier way to do it.
Dan

I think you are thinking of our old house in Maple Valley off Petrovitsky. There everything other than Tiger Mt was blocked. I don’t think that Cedar Mt is even close to being between us at the south end of Lake Morton & the Seattle towers.

We had been aiming the antenna midway between Gold Mt & Capitol Hill. Only that one brief time did we get Ch 11, 12 & 44. After I posted yesterday I had my son re-aim the antenna toward Capitol Hill. We now get Ch 11 & 12 but not 44. We did not lose any of the other channels we already had. So, I’ll be content for now, although I’d really like Ch 44.

PeggyD
Yes, that's right. I forgot you said you moved.
There is very little in your way, just trees for about a 1/2 mile, then you're wide open. Since you're getting ch11, VHF must be pretty good, and ch12 from Orcas Island is a long way off, which says your UHF is working, and the tuner is pretty sensitive. Something is else is going on. Do you have another TV with an HD tuner in it to try ? What TV or tuner are you using ?
I've seen it where a damaged cable, or connector, can cause a small dip in frequency levels, but it's usually just one small range. You should be able to get ch9 if ch11 is coming in, and if the antenna is aimed more towards Gold Mt, ch13 and ch20. If you have anything else between the antenna and the TV, like a ground block or through the wall plate, use a temporary barrel fitting to bypass them, and redo the fittings, then try again. If you stapled the cable, look very close to make sure a staple didn't puncture it, or have one side of the staple curl back around and puncture the cable from behind where you can't see it. If you gently pull on the staple, one side will be loose. If you're using a preamp, try another.
The new antenna is very directional, which is what you want to get through the trees, but will reject signal from other directions, like ch44. Trying to mix 44 with the other channels using a second small antenna wouldn't work. However, you could use a simple indoor antenna and an A/B switch when you want to watch 44.
Dan

I've always gotten Ch 9 & 22 here which is why it was so frustrating not to get Ch 11. Where is the transmitter for Ch 44? According to TV Fool it is at 333º, the same as Ch 11, 9 & 22.

As for tuners, I'm using EyeTV on two different Macs, one with an EyeTV Hybrid & the other with a Miglia TV mini HD as well as the OTA tuners on my Dish Network 722K receiver.

We're moving to CA, so things will definitely be different.

You mentioned amp at RadioShack -- can you recommend one? I have never bought one before so I wouldn't know where to begin; like you said - I could take it back. Thanks!!

PeggyD
Ch44 comes from the same location as ch9, 11 & 22. I was thinking of ch46, which comes from Tiger Mt.
Dazed & confused again!
Ch44 does have far less power than ch22 (actually ch25UHF,1000kw), actually at UHF ch45(between 235kw & 169kw, depending on how you want to read the FCC Site). That could be why it's not coming in.
As for the tuners, you might want to bypass the splitter you're using and just try one of them. A 4way splitter could definitely give you enough loss to cause your problems. If you start to get some reception, then a preamplifier might help. Just be sure that the power suppply for the preamp is connected between the antenna preamp and the splitter.
I'm not familiar with the Mac tuners, and haven't seen any of the Dish tuners lately. Does your TV have a built in tuner, and what brand is it?
Dan

mickey79
Try the simple preamp they have
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3506953&filterName=Type&filterValue=Amplifiers
It is supposed to be used outdoors, with the amplifier part bythe antenna and the powersupply inside. In your case, jsut put the two parts next to each other. It's not that critical for you, It's either going to work or not. If it isn't making a difference, punt.
Dan

We're not using any splitters, my son connected 3 separate baluns. I do have several TVs I can connect to see what I get, 2 Sonys & 2 Vizios.

PeggyD
The balun thingy is a no-no. Connect the cable from the antenna, with nothing on the end but the fitting, directly to one of the TV''s. Start with the Sony's.
Do a scan and see what gives. Let me know what you get, and the strength levels you see for each channel.
Dan

I just read on the DTVPal DVR forum that the TVGOS service is being discontinued. Any word on if this is true and how much longer we will have the service?

Ours will end sometime between now and April this year! You've got no more than two months left. When it happens it would be a good idea for everyone to write or call each local station engineer and ask that their PSIP be maintained to at least 72 hours.

Has anybody checked in on K08OU-D lately? That's the 250 watt 3ABN station from Capitol Hill. I just did a search after installing a new omni antenna on one of our ENG trucks (I work at a TV station). I got channels 8-3 through 8-9, but no video. On the first couple of channels the Vizio TV in the truck gives me a "Retrieving Data" message and then a blue screen with "No Audio and Video"; on the last couple of channels which were traditionally audio services I just get a blue screen.

I don't really care to watch a religious TV station, I'm just wondering if the word of God is so important, why don't they monitor their transmitters more closely? Radio station KAYO 88.1 from Ocean Park was sending out dead air for most of they day yesterday. And a religious translator in Olympia, 91.5 has been on with dead air for months. A silence detector timed circuit linked to the plate voltage doesn't seem that hard of a circuit to build. I never hear of fines for silent, unattended operation.

Val

Hi Folks,

First time posting on the OTA forum. Like everyone else, I'm planning to ditch Comcast and use OTA for TV. I'm really hoping I can find a solution for my house, which is located midway down the east-side of Beacon Hill. My location is probably considered fringe relative to the Queen Anne. I tested using a set of amplified rabbit ears from Radio Shack was able to receive most channels from the Capital Hill tower and KIRO-TV from the Eastside, I couldn't get KOMO or KING, which I expected for indoor rabbit ears. But what was surprising is I was able to pick up KUNS-TV (50) with about 75% quality, which supposedly is coming from Queen Anne too. This gives me a bit of hope that if I can put a larger outdoor antenna with higher elevation that maybe I can pick up KOMO and KING too, no? I'm hoping Dan or someone familiar with my area can share their experience or let me know what my chances are of picking up KOMO and KING from Queen Anne. Any help is much appreciated!

Taylor



Edited by taywu - 2/22/13 at 1:29pm

Just to clarify, KUNS is not on Queen Anne yet. It is still on West Tiger. The Queen Anne move is planned for later this year.

Thanks for the clarification. That explains why I was able to KUNS.

Taylor
What's your nearest cross streets?
Dan

Dan, I'm on S. Lucile St and 31st Ave S.

Taylor
Not good. The hillside is in the way, and a bunch of trees to the NW of you which all block a lot of the signal. Top of the hill is 150ft higher than you, plus trees. Then there's all the downtown buildings. Signal runs right down 4th to 6th avenues.
I've tried the area before, and it's tough. You could try and put up a big antenna with an amplifier for the weak 4 & 5, but then channels 9,11 & 22 are so hot it just drives everything into overload, which just chokes the tuner. Add in the downton buildings and it's just not going to happen. Never say never, but chances are better with the lotto.
Dan
Edited by DanKurts - 3/2/13 at 4:20pm

R.I.P. -- TVGOS

Good Morning-

I was hoping to get some advice from the pros. I live in Snohomish (Mill Ave and Long St) and spent the day installing Antennas Direct 91XG Uni-Directional Antenna in my garage. I'm able to get 4, 5, and 7 and with the peamp I'm pulling down around 62% (per my TV meter). The signals look solid and also installed during a heavy rain storm.

My question:

-Are those solid strengths? King 5 has a green antenna color on my TV and KIRO and KOMO are one step below green. The signal seems solid.
-Do you think I'll be able to pull KCPQ (13). I know there is a translator, but I would like to have the HD version, primarily for the Hawks (no hurry). According to TV Fool i'm 42 miles from their antenna. I was looking at getting ClearStream™ 5 VHF Ultra Long Range Outdoor. Would this work? Any suggestions?

Thank you!

You are using the best UHF antenna available for long range reception. You are degrading the antennas performance by mounting it in the garage. It should be mounted outside as high as possible.

Your reception will be problematic because of all the one and two edge receptions of all your stations. Daily variances will occur due to weather conditions. Reception of Channel 13 is not possible because it is a high VHF station and the antenna is UHF only. You could mount a separate VHF antenna and join the two signals with a UVSJ VHF/UHF combiner.

drlovety
Sunny afternoon back at ya.

Signal "strengths" on TV meters are more signal "quality". True strength needs an actual meter made for measuring it. However, if the TV is happy, no breakups, and steady readings, where it's not bouncing around more than 62-58-65-60-62, you should be okay. The color thingy on your TV is just a display device to help those mathematically challenged. On most sets, steady above 50 is fine. I have a few channels that are steady at 30. As long as there's no breakups, that's okay too. It's when you're going through trees, and the branches are moving, that the lower numbers will give you more breakups. Digital ATSC signals will give you a perfect picture regardless of those numbers, as long as it can lock on and remain steady.

Ch13.
From where you are, chances of getting it from Gold Mt, 42 miles away and about 2300ft above sea level, might be easier. From Capitol Hill you're fighting the lower actual transmitting antenna height of about 1000ft above sea level, the much lower power level of the transmitter, and the big hill to the SW of you, Clearview, which is also loaded with trees.

If you're able to get ch22, you might have a chance at 13 from Capitol Hill if you get the antenna out of the attic and on the roof, at least 3ft away from anything. The translator is in the UHF frequency which will work fine for your antenna.
If you can't get ch22, you might try anyway, just for giggles.

The other option is to get a HiBand VHF antenna, made for ch's 7-13, and mount it outside, aimed for Bremerton. I recommend the Antennacraft Y10713.
http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasVHF.html
It's far better than the similar Winegard model, which has a lousy snap on balun.
If your current preamplifier isn't made for VHF frequencies, then get a Channelmaster 7777. You will also need a UHF/VHF combiner. These have very low insertion loss, so no worries. DO NOT use a 2way splitter to combine them.

Let us know what happens.
Dan

Now that TVGOS is gone if you have the ability to receive PSIP many of the Seattle stations are broadcasting an acceptable amount. The two major stations that could use to up their PSIP are channels 7 and 11. I have written 7 and am waiting for them to decide. I did get a response by sending an email to both engineering and programming. It would be great if a few other people would write them too. I am going to write 11 and 28 to see if they will up theirs to at least two and hopefully three days .

Dan, thanks for the input. Doesn't sound encouraging but you are spot on in your description. It sucks because I'm only about 6 or 7 miles from the Queen Anne tower and not be able to get a signal. In addition to a large antenna, do you think a longer mast will help also? I'm not sure what's the best way to test without going through with the whole installation and hope for the best. Also, which type of antenna would you recommend, a directional or omni-directional antenna? If I do get channels 4 or 5, I'm buying a lotto ticket.

Your signal levels are very strong and you should be able to receive the signals you want with the rabbit ears. Multipath interference is probably why you can't receive KOMO and KING. You need a more directional antenna which the rabbit ears are not.

I suggest you read the following magazine article which will help you understand what multipath interference is.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/2010/04/hdtv-expert-product-review-three-for-dtvreception-february-2009.php

Thanks retiredengineer. According to the article and what you said, I should be able to use an directional amplified indoor antenna?

I do receive PSIP on my PalDVR and it seems the program listing is there for the day. The program description seems very spotty often without any description. By asking the stations to "up" their PSIP, are you asking them to extend the data out further? I would be happy to write the stations but what specifically should I be asking them?

I would say yes. I am using the HDTVi version at my location and I am getting good results on all my high power stations. I am 30 miles away and I don't have line-of-sight. You may have to fuss with the antenna when you are watching a VHF (7-13) station because of the multipath interference. By that, I mean, doing the same thing you were doing when you were using your rabbit ears antenna. For UHF stations, you may have to move the antenna around in case you are in a dead zone. Watch the signal strength meter on your TV while you are fussing with the antenna. Go for maximum signal quality.


[edit] Forgot to say you may have to do a TV rescan if you have never received KOMO or KING before.
Edited by retiredengineer - 3/5/13 at 6:09pm