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Wilmington, NC - HDTV - Page 7

post #181 of 2194
Thanks Foxeng... that is what we will be doing as well, with the GPI switch, but our poor little MC switcher was made before electricity! We are in the works to get a new GV switcher, and the Concerto router that will complete our digital Master Control, and allow our GPI to work, along with automatic switching between network and local programming. In other words, it will take the "thinking" out of it.

I'll look at our upconverter more tomorrow, and I may drop you a pm to see if you would mind offering some more advice.

Hey daryl... I know I will get tons of help here, and maybe be able to help someone else out in the process.... that's why I'm here now! This forum is a great aid to us "new to HD" people.

BTW... we had a problem with audio again today. Seems we padded our audio to help with the level of our DTV signal, but it also padded our analog audio. I have "messed with" our A/D converter, and think we may have it fixed for both now... could you guys let me know what the audio is sounding like tonight?

Thanks!
post #182 of 2194
I just listened at 6:10pm as I switched between ch.3, ch.46-1 and 46-2. They all seem to be of equal volume level or very close.
post #183 of 2194
im having trouble here. i have a samsung ts-160 (directv). i cannot get 46-1 or 46-2 to scan,and i can't manually put them in. all i get is 3-1 digital (80%). i've moved my antenna around with no luck.

also when i manually put in 46-1,46-2 it says channel not available on my tv.

any one else have the same model receiver? any suggestions?

sounds like marcS and i have the same problem.



.
post #184 of 2194
doesn "t look like the hd siginal is working .46-2 looks nothing like 12-1 from new bern so i wonder if something is wrong or did the operator forget to flip the switch? I guess i will have to call billy tomorrow morning.oh well at least they are making progress.
post #185 of 2194
Well i guess some how billy got the message about the siginal.the hd works now and looks great aspect ratio has changed to 4X3 in sd and 16x9 in hd.this is the way hd should be.still having problems with audio went to commericals and some how they had the wrong audio with the wrong commericals.but at least they have the hd working.
post #186 of 2194
Looks like everything is going good, maybe i'll get to watch some Alias this weekend (crosses fingers). Loved the PQ on NYPD Blue, very clean and the audio sync was pretty close.

Anyways, just wanted to let you guys know my site dedicated to Wilmington (and surrounding areas) High Definition is up. I have a few more things to add and a lot of ideas but it should be suitable for now. There is a forum waiting to be filled so everyone join up!

http://www.ilmhd.com/
post #187 of 2194
NUNVURU ,I just joined the new forum thank you for starting one DIGITAL DAN!!!!!!!!!!!hope billy stratton, darylL,foxeng,paul watkins,marcS,nc88keyz,and anyone else out there in the wilmington and surrounding areas joins the forum this is going to become a great resouce for all of us. thanks to everyone in advance DIGITAL DAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #188 of 2194
Still no luck last night getting 46-2. Again, all I can tune is 3-1.

Tried unplugging the Dish 6000, remove module, power up, view tv, power down, insert module, power up, use scan to add digital channels (I even deleted all digital channels first). It picked up WUNC fine, all 5 sub-channels, but would only get 3-1 for ABC...

Haven't checked the DBSTalk forum yet for ideas...

I'm surprised the Samsung has similar problems.

**Calling Wayne Estabrooks** (did I get your last name right?)

Do you have any ideas about how the PSIP might be causing this problem? I can't find any other suggestions in other forums that point anywhere else...
post #189 of 2194
Thread Starter 
Marc,


I scanned for Channels last night several times. One out of 4 times it picked up 46-2....In the process I lost florence 15-1 but thats ok for now. I expect much better things when i get the antenna on the roof line. try unplugging the dish 6000 ...delete all channels in the guide for OTA and rescan for PSIP data. Good Luck.
post #190 of 2194
The only thing I haven't done is delete ALL channels, I did delete just the ABC analog and digital, and last night deleted all digital channels, and unplugged the 6000........all to no avail...

I'll try deleting all channels and then let it scan for new ones to see if that works.

But considering people with different receivers are having problems seeing 46-2, I'm still thinking bitstream problems..........
post #191 of 2194
I did a search in the hardware section for "Dish 6000" and found this interesting comment:

"I have no idea how the box would treat a remodulated signal but when stations in my area screw up PSIP info and drive Samsung and Dish 6000 receivers crazy, the Hughes boxes have no problems."

Are Paul and I the only ones with Samsung and Dish boxes? Apparently they are extremely sensitive to "anomalous" PSIP data...

Hey Billy--is there a way to do a "reset" on the PSIP stream? It seems I remember someone else talking about it, maybe even related to when WUNC started HD broadcast here in Wilm... I have no idea what that might do, if even possible. Just throwing stuff out, stabbing in the dark...
post #192 of 2194
MarcS.. I will look at it today and see if we can get you hooked up.
post #193 of 2194
I was beginning to wonder if Billy forgot to set the system up to switch to the HD feed since the HD programming started at 8:30 but atleast it changed for NYPD Blue. It looked great. Although the audio was slightly out of sync when it switched to HD. LOL I had WTVD's dd5.1 audio playing on my receiver off cable while I watched WWAY in HD of my hd stb. Was pefectly in sync.

I compared WWAY's HD signal to WTVD-DT ABC 11(52-1)'s HD signal and they look practically identical picture quality wise. I have to give the award to WWAY due to their color. WWAY's flesh tones look more natural and realistic and brown wood looks brown were as WTVD's flesh tones are on the pinkish side and browns look on the cherry side. I don't have red push because I have and RF attenuator on my red(Pr) component input and used a color decoder test pattern to adjust the reds to 0% on the attenuator after adjusting the color and tint on the tv with test patterns. WTVD just has to much red in their picture.

Also Billy, as soon as it switched from upconvert to HD at 10:00 pm the jitter/shudder went away so I guess that means the jitter problem isn't due to the bandwidth being used.

nunvuru,

I'm going to your site after I leave here and sign up.

MarcS,

Monday when I did an auto scan I picked up 3-1 and 46-2. Yesterday I did it again and only got 3-1. I had to manually tune to and add 46-2.
post #194 of 2194
Thanks Billy--your efforts are much appreciated. I know we HD people are very far and few between, especially here in Wilmington... but vocal, eh?

I think you said you don't have an HD set? I'll extend an invitation if you want to see what it looks like--I've got a 58" Pioneer calibrated by Gregg Loewen... might help you understand why we're so enthusiastic...


I'm not so interested in some HD programming, but damn!, it sure can look good...

I won't be able to report back until this evening on whether I can pick up 46-2...

==

Daryl--I tried manually tuning, but it didn't work... Not sure the 6000 will let me tune to something that hasn't already been added to the program guide. Also, I may not have tried adding the channel after 8:30 last night...
post #195 of 2194
MarcS, I have the Samsung TS-160 ! I'm having the same problems!!!
post #196 of 2194
Here are a bunch of excerpts from posts in the hardware section--I did a search on "psip problems"...

Unfortunately, it seems that some receivers are more prone to problems with anomalous PSIP data, and because this whole area (DT & HD broadcasting) is new, it's possible PSIP data doesn't get as much attention as say picture or sound quality...

Also unfortunately, no one seems to have any specifics on exactly what the PSIP stream should contain for our receivers to work properly...

++++++
The locking up issue has not only been identified but corrected. But let me explain a bit more. The Samsung engineer brought along his development TS-160 along. Also a laptop computer. Together, he was able to correct the software problem. But wait til you understand what was the cause.

OTA Broadcasters running digital use some data called the PSIP. It is where guide info/channel info is broadcast. It is updated by some broadcasters all the time. Others ignore it except for the bare minimum. If you were in an area where the broadcaster updated the information frequently then you were an unhappy camper. The TS-160 was doing a check on this data and if it was different the program went into an infinite loop which caused the audio/video output to not appear. That explains why some people reported no problems while others were seeing it all the time.

By the way, in 1999 when I got my RCA HDTV with integrated receiver (PS61000), RCA sent their head of field service to my house twice to attend to problems that turned out to be issues with PSIP that ws being sent from OTA digital stations. They then made trips to the stations in NY city and set them up with free DTC-100's so they could make sure their output signals were DTC-100 compatible which might explain the sucess of the DTC-100 today!

The lock up issue is determined entirely whether the PSIP data has changed or not since the last time the receiver was tuned to that station. If the data was not updated by the station then you would not have a problem. If the data was updated by the station then you would. Simple as that. PSIP data is that portion of the digital data stream which defines, in part, not only the virtual channel number but also any guide information.
+++++
post #197 of 2194
Let me take the PSIP discussion a step further. We as broadcasters have a LARGE latitude in how the PSIP is set up. A broadcaster can set the PSIP data in the encoder and in the multiplexer, which is a device that multiplexes multiple encoders together, if he makes one typo, the receivers will not know which data bit to use.

Each program stream (subchannel) is assigned PID groups or Program ID groups. They are usually in the same hex group. In each PID group is the ID bit for the video and audio. I can attest that we broadcasters have NOT been well versed in how all this is suppose to work. It is pretty clear to me now how all this works, but 18 months ago, it was pure Greek. What seems logical isn't and a lot of engineers have fallen in this trap because it is all virtual and we broadcast types are not used to working in the virtual world.

You have program init numbers which are the stream number and each stream is a different number, but this number does not have to correspond to the channel minor number but the PIDs are kinda linked to this. If a station has 2 subchannels then they may designate the HD as program init 1 and SD as program init 2. The way the PSIP protocol is written, PID group x000h and x010h are reserved for God knows what (I haven't looked, all I know is that is reserved) and PID group x020h is the first video program stream. Those of you with WINTV-D and HD cards on your dianosic screen can see what PIDs the stations are using and I would bet you would find many use x010 for the first program stream. It works, but on some receivers if screws it up. We have a station in my market that uses x000h for the HD stream and x010 for the SD and not many receivers will lock on the correct stream, if they do at all.

So the video on the first program stream (HD in this example) should be on x020 and the first audio stream should be on x024h and the second audio stream (SAP channel for instance) should be on x025h if the station is sending it. Most don't though, but PBS seems to do it. The second stream or the SD subchannel should start with x030h with the video being x030h and the audios x034h and x035h and so on. Now this all leaves the 2 encoders and travels to the multiplexer where the two separate streams are now combined into a single stream to be transmitted.

In the multiplexer (or MUX as we call it) we can say, take program init 1 and in the PSIP table call it subchannel -2 and program init 2 call it subchannel -1 (there is a station that does just that,. Why I don't know) so when you hit the x-1 on your receiver it shows up as the SD channel and not the HD and vise versa. Now if the MUX is not setup correctly to translate all those PIDs correctly, it sends data to the receiver and the receiver looks for those PIDs and depending on the type receiver, they may search to find the right PIDs (since the protocol says the video is x0X0 and the audio is x0X4h) or might just give up and not display anything. (the PSIP table said that Z data was on PID xXXXh but it isn't there so I will do nothing.)

If any of the PID data isn't correct, the receiver doesn't know how to put all the data back together and you have problems.

So not only does the encoder have to be set correctly, but the MUX has to be told what to do too and if a station is doing something fancy like swapping program streams for subchannels, that just makes it more likely something bad will happen when all this translation is entered in the MUX.

So ends "PSIP For The Layman 101."
post #198 of 2194
yeah,what foxeng said... im hoping this is something that can be fixed. the samsung ts-160 is a somewhat new box i thought. oh well, im not alone.

did a scan last night during NYPD blue with no luck. will try again tonight.

marcS, my sammy has locked up about five times since i've owned it. the only way to correct it is to unplug it from the wall and reset. glad to know that is the problem,thanks.

help us billy.your our only hope.....
post #199 of 2194
C'mon, tell me something I don't know!!



Just kidding--thanks foxeng for that detailed explanation--don't know what it all means, but I'll re-read it a few times...

Still can't tune 46-2 as of 6 pm...

I'll try later tonight to see if something changes...
post #200 of 2194
Hey Foxeng.. are you looking for a small market Engineering position?

I didn't get a chance to look at ours today, but I will do it tomorrow if at all possible. I think I actually understood a small bit of what Foxeng said, and that is probably exactly what we have done. I know we have our SD as prog1 and HD as prog2... but I don't know what we assigned each one.

Thanks for the help!
post #201 of 2194
Billy,

You want to borrow my Klingon Translator? HEHE j/k. I kinda understand it. I read some of that stuff awhile back but didn't really try to digest it. But here's a great pdf on it and a couple good links.

http://www.sarnoff.com/products_serv...orial/psip.pdf

http://www.sarnoff.com/products_serv...rial/index.asp

http://www.nab.org/scitech/psip/default.asp

Don't forget ya'll. 10pm tonight in HD on ABC, Karen Sisco. I know their HD lineup starts at 8pm but I don't watch My Wife and Kids, and That 70's Show season premiere is tonight at 8pm, and King of Queens and Beckers has my attention from 9 to 10.
post #202 of 2194
Quote:


Originally posted by Billy_Stratton
Hey Foxeng.. are you looking for a small market Engineering position?

I grew up in Fayetteville watching WWAY, as well as WECT and the Raleigh stations (and my own station when it was on Fayetteville cable in the late 60's/early 70's) and my first full time broadcast job was in Lumberton for WAGR/WJSK in the early 80's. I still miss that area though (but my wife HATED IT!).

Knowing some "buzzwords" does not make me an expert! But thanks for the thought. Who knows, I might need that position sometime!
post #203 of 2194
Thread Starter 
Audio sync is way off tonight. Unless someone can confirm otherwise Im not touching my soundcard drivers. Im running straight out of the MY HD card SPDIF out. Ive also had it connected with passthrough to Optical out on Motherboard. ??


How is sync with everyone else.???


Please Move to Wilmington, NC Thread. Sorry for the error.
post #204 of 2194
Has everyone joined up at wilmingtonhd.com or ilmhd.com yet? This forum was started yesterday and is deicated to wilmington and surrounding areas so go check it out and sign up if you haven't yet.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DIGITAL DAN.
post #205 of 2194
For Billy and foxeng...

First--it's really great to have some engineers participating in the various forums--I'm sure we all really appreciate your efforts to keep us in the loop...

I was wondering, what's your typical day like? How much work does it take to keep the station running? Is it really a constant hands-on affair? What uses up most of your time (other than responding to our questions)?

Thanks...
post #206 of 2194
Yep the sync sintuation was a trip but the programming in HD looked great.
post #207 of 2194
Hey foxeng when are you going to join up at wilmingtonhd.com?
post #208 of 2194
Hey nc88keyz when are you going to join up at wilmingtonhd.com?
post #209 of 2194
The reason I asked Is because just about everyone from the trend have signed up at wilmingtonhd.com and started posting there Instead of here.the new site belongs to nunvuru from this trend.Well hope the new membership drive goes well.................DIGITAL~DAN
post #210 of 2194
Quote:


Originally posted by MarcS
I was wondering, what's your typical day like? How much work does it take to keep the station running? Is it really a constant hands-on affair? What uses up most of your time (other than responding to our questions)?

Every day is different. That is one of the reasons why I like what I do. Since I am the Transmitter Supervisor, I have a 8:30 to 5:30 schedule, but I am on call 24/7 to run to the transmitter if trouble develops. We have engineers that work from 4AM to 1 PM and 2PM to 11PM and your "9 to 5" workers. We have a shop of 7 engineers. We run 7 hours of news a day so sometimes I have to do things with the newscasts or other maintenance issues.

Today I got in at 8:30 and prepared for tecs from Time-Warner Cable. They are running fiber optics from our studio to their headend so if we loose the transmitters (analog and DTV), we will still be on the cable system. We have 80% cable and sat penetration in our market so we have good back up. The tecs got there at 9 and we finished up the connections and checked out the fiber link. We are doing some work on our news set and so I helped in some demolition on the Sports area. Ate lunch and then went to the transmitter where I have been doing some changes with some internal wiring after we added our new digital microwave and then had to pick up some equipment stored at the transmitter and took it back up to the studio. Met with my boss on some ideas I had for emergency conditions to be able to stay on the air and then it was time to come home, 5:30.

Some days are more hectic than others like if there is any transmitter maintenance (we have 2 transmitters so I can shut one down to work on the other one in the middle of the day) then I do that until it is finished, but since November sweeps started today we do not do anything that might effect our on air signal so for the next 4 weeks, it will be mostly light maintenance and meetings and log paperwork.

9/11 was the strangest. I had a dentists appointment at 9:30 so I was at home when the towers were stuck and I just happen to be watching FOX News Channel with it happened. I went on to the dentist and told them I needed to get in and get out. They hadn't heard about the attack and they got me out in 20 minutes! A record! On the way to the station, (the second tower had just fallen) my boss called on the cell phone that FOX wanted all Transmitter people at the transmitters and to lock ourselves in and to report any strange activity.

I got to the transmitter about 20 minutes before the second tower came down and watched TV just like everyone else the rest of the day. Of course the only info I had coming in was our rebroadcast of FOX News Channel.

After that, we started beefing up the back ups and we added a DirecTV receiver at the transmitter so that we can take our off air signal we send to DirecTV on the air if we lost our microwave link and if we didn't have a microwave truck to send the studio signal to the transmitter or if we lost the studio, we could put FOX News Channel on the air from the transmitter, stuff like that. FOX is very big in back ups and we talk constantly about how we can make things better.

It isn't your normal 9 to 5, but I have been doing broadcasting for 25 years and have been at the TV station for 11 1/2 years. I can't see doing anything else. Ah, the life!
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