Backlighting and Lucy  

Something about the film-to-HD transfers does tend to leave indoor / dark scenes typically wanting. I am of the opinion that this is not an inherent weakness of going from film to HD, but is more of a "it happens if you don't prepare for it." It's pretty likely Lucy was shot on film and not on HD video (not guaranteed, but likely), just with an eye for the HD transfer.

Mark

The 6500K bulb is available from Lume-Ideal without the fixture. I ordered it and the filters.
We will see how it looks.

John

All Im using is a small halogen desk lamp and even that works.

Sounds like you are now doing exactly what I'm doing with a halogen.I went around looking for a cheap 6500K light but I didn't want to have to mount it and wasn't sure if fluorescent or halogen or a regular bulb was the best.since i had the halogen i went with it.What was the difference between using fluorescent and halogen since they have such different light qualities?Interested in what the color temperature of 20 watt halogen would be.I think this back lighting is something many are are going to be exploring on the forum in the coming weeks.it really makes a difference.

Why or how does backlighting enhance PQ?

I had ordered my Ideal-Lume about the same time that Mark had and decided to wait till it got here and then use it a few times before posting anything.

I do wish that they shipped a little more information regarding best mounting location (something beyond the obvious behind the display).

I have off white walls as well and I agree with Mark's assessment that the filters are needed in order to achieve an appropriate match.

I have to say that I am pleased with the result. Eye strain is markedly improved. PQ improvement has not wowed me as yet. However, there is improvement. I am wondering if I would have noticed a greater improvement with the 503CMX that I had previously as opposed to the P50 that I have now. I think that improved black levels and the other PQ variables that are improved as a consequence of improved black levels are at the heart of the improved PQ claims.

I can get to the switch pretty easily so the whole issue of convenient on/off is not as much of an issue for me.

It might be a bit pricey compared to something not so "designed to task". On the other hand, whatever one uses, the cost is not going to be 0 and there is no questioning in my mind that there is a benefit. As stated above at least for me so far, I am more impressed with the improvements or lack of eye strain than I am with the improvements in PQ.

As to the cost....heck, add $20 to a good set of 2 meter component video cables from this site's favorite cable supplier and yo are about there so its not that bad. That said I do empathize with the notion that if something standard did just as well, one could save a good deal of money. Based on their impact, I think that the filters are a big deal. Some have questioned the use of that type of filter in this application and as I recall the issue was the life expectancy of the filters. I do not know enough about the topic to offer a comment there.

If it is enough of an endorsement to indicate whether it is staying or going, in my case it is definitely staying.

How much is this magic "Ideal-Lume" thing?

On their web site at http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

The cheapest model is listed as $55 plus another $13 for a dimming/filter kit. Deluxe models run $150 to over $400.

The "Plasma display" model is $150.00 with a filter kit included.

I guess the biggest difference between the various models once you get to the plasma and above versions is the bulb.

That said, it would take some real serious salesmanship to nudge me into any of the models that are more expensive than the plasma model especially since that is the display that I am using the Ideal-Lume with.

As Dobe and I have stated try just a cheap 20 watt halogen desk lamp set up behind the plasma(mine is just resting on top of the right speaker of my surround sound so its not even in an optimal balanced location) but it still improves things on my 433.Just put any lamp you can behind the plasma.If it works go for the more expensive stuff if you feel you need it.

Kweezer,

Video backlighting or "bias" lighting is used consistently in the professional video production arena to relieve viewer fatigue. Since those technicians perform critical analysis of picture quality over long hours in the studio, this is an important issue for them. Another area of concern is accurate color perception. 6500 Kelvins fluorescents are used because that color temperature is the standard for video white.

Occasional mention of these principles has appeared in the various home theater magazines for years. Some discussion also appears on the popular DVDs for setting up and calibrating home theaters. You may be familiar with 'Video Essentials', 'Avia Guide to Home Theater' or 'Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-Up', etc. Video experts and consumers have discovered that the technology transfers well to home theater use.

Considerable detail on this topic and related issues is available at www.ideal-lume.com along with links to other articles. A Google search on video bias lighting or video backlighting should also yield further information.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

Apparently tungsten-halogen lamps have a low 3200K color temperature (yellowish tint), that isn't ideal as a backlight since you should go for 6500K (close to daylight sun color temp) which is what the Ideal-Lume models have.

I put a cheap desk lamp with a 40watt incandescent bulb back of my plasma (which sits on a Bello stand in the corner where my old CRT stood). The backlighting helps enormously. Since I don't know the technical information, I can only state that I think the backlight makes the blacks look blacker, and consequently I have adjusted the blacks to a shade of gray which looks quite black (with the backlighting) but is probably one shade above, which helps the monitor deal with the grayscale ramp, and shows less contouring, etc. The backlighting also helps my eyes to adjust the constant changing brightness of picture.

I'm doing something similar as DFletcher with a 40 watt (or soft 60) bulb in a gooseneck desk lamp behind the plasma, with the cup of the lamp pointed to the wall (which BTW is made of lovely 70's wood paneling- I rent) to reflect back off that. So it's a nice diffused light.

The Plasma Lite is 1 1/2" wide, thats the main difference. We don't have much room back there, so there is a benefit for considering the $150. purchase price.

Dave

That's right. The plasma model is configured specifically for wall-mounted panels where space behind the set is usually severely limited. Plasmas on stands can use the less expensive model if ultimate color accuracy and the other benefits of an electronic ballast are not a priority.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

GeorgeAB,

One question did come up about placement- could you help us with this one.

What would be optimal?

Thanks

Dave

I tried Deeann's soft 60 watt method and compared it to my 20 watt halogen.The regular 60 was brighter and more white but it seemed to light up the room too much.I went with the Halogen for it gave just enough light and kept a 3d effect on the screen by bringing out the blacks and on a 433 thats definitely a good thing.

Same as deeann however with the white wall diffusion from a 40 watt incandescent. It works great, less eye fatigue and greater perceived contrast.

I appreciate the education this thread provides a great deal. I will be sure to give this stuff a try with my black-challenged displays in particular.

I just received the Ideal-Lume BULB and GRAY FILTERS ONLY, for a plasma display (18 watt, 24" bulb) and bought an under counter fixture for the bulb. I just could not spend $150 on an experiment!
I have not had much time to "play" with the setup.
The display is mounted on the wall so there is only about 4" between the wall and the back of the display (using a tilt bracket, un-tilted). The light and filters (2 darkest, gives about the recommended 10% of the display intensity) are sitting against the back of the display facing up. Because the bulb is only about 2" from the wall it produces an illuminating pattern a little longer than the bulb, and about 10" up the wall. There is not illumination along the sides of the display, which would require 2 more lamps.
Given the conditions, I see only some improvement in the imaging. I will need to "play" with it some more, but I never have viewed any TV in a completely dark room. I learned that is bad news for the eyes many years ago!

More to follow!

John

My halogen is resting on the right speaker next to my plasma and Ive bent it over to the top right side of the plasma with the actual bulb facing the wall.I know this sounds crazy but that seems to work better than putting the light directly behind the screen with light shooting out evenly from back.

I will second CheriDave's request above....

Looking in my handy dandy W.W Grainger catalog it seems that the T8 flourescent bulbs are not an easy item to find with the above characteristics.

BTW, T8 means the maximum bulb diameter in 1/8's", IOW = 1" diameter bulb.

Second, of the ones listed, finding a 6500K bulb is even harder, and only @ CRI=75%.

Most of the 24" length listed are 3000 - 4000k with CRI=75-84, fyi.

So the price for the bulbs sold thru the discussed web site is not bad at all for the bulb price (only about $7 premium over standard, but with more accurate specs).

I think a wall mount set up would necessitate the use of 4 lights
for even background illumination; and might still not work due to
the hot spots on the wall closest to the bulbs.

The color correction rooms I’ve seen have the CRT a
good distance in front of the (gray painted or fabric) back wall.

Jorge

Taking into account the depth of the CRT and the space from the wall, What would you describe as "a good distance in front of" ???? In terms of inches and or feet?

My initial thoughts, for wall mounted, are to try to incorporate the lighting as "recessed" in the wall.

Hopefully George will give us some feed back here.

PS. Also, I would like to know how 'dimmers' affect the specs of the bulbs?