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My Unofficial Guide to Samsung HLN Series DLP Sets - Page 2

post #31 of 2628
5/7/03 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by htwaits
I hope you still have time for your day job!!!

I am writing this as I wait for yet another meeting to start in my day job. BTW, this is a lot more fun!!!

Now, now kmil - you are making me gush. We really should all thank David Bott, Alan Gouger and others for making this forum happen where we can share such information.
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post #32 of 2628
5/7/03 at 2:03pm
I think you've missed the point. Samsung wouldn't even give a price on replacement bulbs before many of us ordered this set. And who is to say the price on the bulb assembly won't go up 500% by the time most of us need them anyway?

The answer to your original question is nobody knows.

Quote:
Originally posted by Maurice2
That's a ridiculous answer. You missed the point entirely.
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post #33 of 2628
5/7/03 at 2:27pm
Turls, are you the one who lives too far away to get Samsung service calls to your house? If my memory is right, have you found any solution to that problem?
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post #34 of 2628
5/7/03 at 4:07pm
Well, if you call totally replacing the set at Samsung's expense 2 times a solution, right now I am ok. It took a while to get Samsung to work with me but once they did I can't say too much bad about them.

I'm only 40 miles away from the closest authorized repair center, so I would think a lot of people would have run into this problem, but I haven't heard about too many that had to get complete replacements.
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post #35 of 2628
5/7/03 at 4:27pm
Would anyone tell me the website or phone no. of PC Richards.
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post #36 of 2628
5/7/03 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by turls
I'm only 40 miles away from the closest authorized repair center, so I would think a lot of people would have run into this problem, but I haven't heard about too many that had to get complete replacements.

I was thinking that this guide might benefit from having something in it about the exclusions based on distance in the Samsung "in home" warranty.

I'm glad Samsung came through. But, forty miles doesn't seem that far. Is it left up to the authorized repair service as to how far they will go to make a call?
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post #37 of 2628
5/7/03 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally posted by turls
I think you've missed the point. Samsung wouldn't even give a price on replacement bulbs before many of us ordered this set. And who is to say the price on the bulb assembly won't go up 500% by the time most of us need them anyway?The answer to your original question is nobody knows.

Turls, I'm sorry to say, but you too have missed the point I was making. I guess I was not clear enough. My fault.

Of course nobody can predict what the cost of cleaning the lenses will be 3 years from now. What I was suggesting was that we should try to find out how big a job cleaning the lenses will be. Will it take 30 minutes? an hour? two hours? A knowledgeable Samsung person ought to know (otherwise he is not knowledgeable enough). Knowing this, one should be able to determine approximately how much the cost would be today (depending where one lives, of course). To have this approximation -- or at least the time needed to do the job, approximately -- would, in my view, be helpful to many people (including me) for whom forking out over $3,000. for a TV is a big decision, and it should be included in the Guide.

An approximation (if we can manage to get one) is all that is needed.
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post #38 of 2628
5/7/03 at 5:22pm
Great document, very informative!

I'm considering getting one of these HLNs in the near future and your document has provided a lot of good info in one spot.

One thing I think would make a good addition is info about the PIP functionality of these sets. I've seen some threads on this but never a really clear answer. Can it do two pictures side by side? It would quite nice if my girlfriend could watch a animal planet on one side while I played a video game or surf the web on the other. Is this possible? I've never been able to get it to work that way in store, only a (relatively) small corner window (can you change the position of the window?). Also, are there limitations to what input combinations can be used?

Anyway, thanks a bunch, keep up the good work!
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post #39 of 2628
5/7/03 at 5:52pm
No, I don't think I did. My point is that getting information like this from Samsung would be like pulling teeth. The analogy I made about not being able to get pricing on bulbs before people ordered the set is very applicable here.

There are a lot of variables involved with what you are asking, and you are lucky to find a tech that has been trained on DLP anyway.

Another point, unlike bulbs that HAVE to be replaced by EVERYONE eventually, what percentage of owners do you think will actually pay someone to come do this anyway? I would guess very few. The interior is accessable and unless you are in a very dirty environment surface cleaning should get 99% of the people by, if they even do that much.

Quote:
Originally posted by Maurice2
Turls, I'm sorry to say, but you too have missed the point I was making. I guess I was not clear enough. My fault.
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post #40 of 2628
5/7/03 at 5:56pm
Exactly. It would be nice to mention that little exclusion in this type of guide, and that it is also next to impossible to figure out who will do what without calling them ahead of time.

The guy in St. Louis really drove me crazy. If he drives from one side of St. Louis county to the other he is going to have probably 3/4ths or more of the drive time that he would have almost all interstate to my house. These guys don't think about traffic or stoplights I guess because he wouldn't have had either coming to my house.

Quote:
Originally posted by htwaits
I'm glad Samsung came through. But, forty miles doesn't seem that far. Is it left up to the authorized repair service as to how far they will go to make a call?
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post #41 of 2628
5/7/03 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Maurice2
A knowledgeable Samsung person ought to know (otherwise he is not knowledgeable enough).

Who is this knowledgeable Samsung person? The one who might not be knowledgeable enough?

I think we are all users here. Service departments probably haven't gotten around to doing this kind of job yet. Some of them haven't even heard that there are some internal differences between DLP and CRT RPTVs.

Some service contracts cover this kind of cleaning but only if there is a clear degradation of PQ.

I'm sure there is all kinds of dust and other unmentionables in these unfiltered sets, but we don't know if it will hurt PQ. If it does hurt PQ we don't know how long it will take to be noticeable.

An ISF calibrator who has had the screen off of an HLN set might give an estimate--if that's how you get in to polish the mirrors.

Maybe you could do the research and contribute it to the "guide".
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post #42 of 2628
5/7/03 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
Axl, I shall add the PIP information to the guide.

Regarding the recommendation on cleaning of the lenses, the statement in the guide came from 13 questions and answers posted by Duffin on 3/6/03. See question #11:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e&pagenumber=3

His sources is someone at Samsung. Maybe we can ask Duffin to get more elaboration on this topic. It is quite likely that the answer is going to be - they don't have an answer yet and they won't have it for another couple of years.

Is this cleaning also required in any other type of rear projection TV? Is this unique to all DLP TVs? Or is it unique to Samsung DLP TVs only?
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post #43 of 2628
5/7/03 at 8:21pm
Thread Starter 
Posted version 1.4 of the guide. Added sections on black levels, PIP, viewing distance, and internal reflection. Updated other sections.
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post #44 of 2628
5/8/03 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally posted by arungupta
Posted version 1.4 of the guide. Added sections on black levels, PIP, viewing distance, and internal reflection. Updated other sections.

When I compared the brochures from the Samsung website between the 507 and the 5065 HLN, the 507 indicates Faroujda Film Mode 3:2 pulldown enhancement, whereas the 5065 indicates just Film Mode 3:2 pulldown enchancement.

Is this the main difference (other than the bezel) that would account for the differences in prices that are seen?

Kevin
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post #45 of 2628
5/8/03 at 2:01pm
Samsung's web page is not clear as it might be. The same Faroujda chip is in all models. The only difference is that Samsung doesn't pay a license to advertise it in the cheaper models.
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post #46 of 2628
5/8/03 at 4:33pm
HTwaits:..................so, in view of that will Samsung make a "lower" model of the HLN467w........(lower cost)? I'd doubt it but what do you think?
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post #47 of 2628
5/8/03 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by kmil
HTwaits:..................so, in view of that will Samsung make a "lower" model of the HLN467w........(lower cost)? I'd doubt it but what do you think?

I don't know. They have duplicate models for 43" and 50" sets. Why not confuse things further and do the same at 46", 56" and 61"? I don't know why they removed the Tanus designation from the 43", 50" and 61" HLNxxx sets either. I'm hoping it's more than cosmetic.
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post #48 of 2628
5/8/03 at 8:49pm
Thread Starter 
From a manufacturing perspective, its actually cheaper for them to have the same electronics guts for all the models - and just put on a different size box around it. The artificial model differences appear to be their attempt at creating differentiation for their high and low end dealers. They've ended up confusing everyone - and maybe that was the intent.
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post #49 of 2628
5/9/03 at 7:10am
Thread Starter 
In future, I shall post updates in the threads first, then consolidate them into the guide - making it easier for people who have already downloaded the guide.

Remote Keyboard and Mouse
-------------------------------------
One of the pleasures from this set is couch computing - sit back, browse, e-mail, post on AVSforum, instant message, .... Of course, you need a good remote mouse and keyboard for this purpose. I have the two best options, one on each set: Gyration Ultra Cordless Optical Suite (~$99) and Logitech Elite Duo (~$79). I have tried others, including Microsoft Bluetooth, before settling on these two.

Gyration, the preferred one, has a 25' range. It has a great smooth mouse which can be used with a mouse pad or in the air using its gyro device, and the mouse comes with a charger. Its keyboard is small and lite, but its narrow laptop style is not good for touch-typing or keyboard intensive games.

Logitech only has a 10' range, but it has a really great keyboard and the mouse is also very smooth.
-------------------------------------
Coming updates - OTA antennas, Service Menu tweaks, HD Programming
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post #50 of 2628
5/9/03 at 12:20pm
Thanks arungupta for taking the time to put all this info together in one place. Just one correction: The guide says the HLN sets don't do side-by-side PIP. My HLN507W does.

I also think your recommendation for a "mid range" HTPC is too stringent. I have an HTPC with "only" an AMD 2100+ processor and "only" an ATI AIW 7500 video card (I use the DVI output of course!) and I get the impression that the PC never even gets close to breaking a sweat doing all that I ask of it. I do agree completely that an HTPC is the way to go with this TV. I am amazed at (a) how good a PC monitor this set makes, and (b) how good most DVDs look through the HTPC.
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post #51 of 2628
5/9/03 at 12:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Radiophile
The guide says the HLN sets don't do side-by-side PIP. My HLN507W does.

Thanks for the correction, Radiophile. I haven't been able to find side-by-side PIP on either of my sets. What do you do to turn it on?

Quote:
I also think your recommendation for a "mid range" HTPC is too stringent. I have an HTPC with "only" an AMD 2100+ processor and "only" an ATI AIW 7500 video card (I use the DVI output of course!) and I get the impression that the PC never even gets close to breaking a sweat doing all that I ask of it.

My recommendation is only for people buying a new PC, I'll make it clear in the guide. If you already have one and you are happy with it, there is no reason to follow this advice. I recommend a mid-range PC for two reasons: 1) Its an old rule of thumb when buying any new PC so it won't become obsolete too quickly 2) You need a minimum 2.4 GHz P4 (or AMD equivalent) to play Windows Media 9 hi-def video. Terminator 2 is the first HiDef DVD coming out in June using this format. We hope there will be a lot more.

Quote:
I do agree completely that an HTPC is the way to go with this TV. I am amazed at (a) how good a PC monitor this set makes, and (b) how good most DVDs look through the HTPC.

We are in full agreeement!! When I played my first DVD from my HTPC (Star Wars- Attack of the Clones) my jaw kind of dropped - I wasn't at all expecting the crystal clear picture.
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post #52 of 2628
5/9/03 at 1:16pm
Arun,

On my set(HLM 507 with new internals), i can cycle through the various PIP options by pressing the PIP button on the remote. I use the side-by-side option a lot especially with NBA games and sitcoms. One of the windows can display component inputs, but i think vga/dvi is not possible(that would've been the icing !).

-Srinivas
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post #53 of 2628
5/9/03 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 
I figured out what I may have been doing wrong. My main windows is almost always DVI or VGA and I guess you can't do side by side with DVI or VGA as one of the windows. I shall try out all the options and revise the guide.
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post #54 of 2628
5/10/03 at 4:17am
Thread Starter 
Corrected PIP section. Updated remote Keyboard and mouse section.
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post #55 of 2628
5/11/03 at 2:55am
"If you must use a DVD player with component out, use a non-progressive player instead of a progressive one - this is because the TV has superior de-interlacing/scaling circuitry compared to the DVD player. Connect it to Component 1 Input -- It is the only component input that accepts 480i/480p signals."

I am in the market for a new DVD player to complement my HLN. I've read in other posts and this guide that the best quaility DVD is not to use a progressive scan DVD player. Why is this and if I do connect a progrssive scan DVD, will the quality be poorer than a non-P?

Thanks.
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post #56 of 2628
5/11/03 at 3:49am
Thread Starter 
I REALLY recommend only these worthy companions to your High definition TV: 1) Bravo D1 player ($199), 2) Samsung 931 player (~$320 street), or 3) an HTPC. All can output DVI at 720p, and you cannot get a better PQ from any conventional DVD player. See these threads regarding these two players:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=bravo
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=252173
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=bravo

Conventional DVD players (Component output) are really for SD televisions. If are intent on a conventional player, then you should select a non-progressive player or disable the progressive feature in the player. Your TV has the Faroudja FLI 2300 chip, which does a superior job of de-interlacing. Connect into Component 1.

Hope this helps.
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post #57 of 2628
5/11/03 at 4:02am
Quote:


then you should select a non-progressive player or disable the progressive feature in the player. Your TV has the Faroudja FLI 2300 chip, which does a superior job of de-interlacing.

Yes this help and great job with the guide!
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post #58 of 2628
5/12/03 at 2:57pm
Thread Starter 
I have the 3 blinking lights problem on my HLN4365W. I didn't have this problem with my HLM617W in over 4 months of use. My new HLN4365W developed the problem in less than 3 weeks. The problem surfaced at the worst moment, when I was proudly showing the TV to my visiting brother, a Sony GWII owner.

When I turn the TV on, the picture comes on, but within a few minutes the picture goes dark and the front panel has 3 blinking lights. Its suppsed to be a problem with the lamp system - obviously not a fused bulb because I do get the picture for a few minutes. I am not the only one who has this problem with this set. See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=256956

Luckily, PC Richards, the retailer, has been very good in providing support. A service person will come and check it out in the next day or so. They are also willing to exchange it for a new set if it can't be readily fixed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

We need to make Samsung aware that the problem is still persisting with the HLN series. They have claimed that less than 5% of HLM series had this problem - a combination of fused bulbs and improperly seated lamp assemblies.

Oh well!!!
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post #59 of 2628
5/12/03 at 3:10pm
Quote:


Originally posted by arungupta
We need to make Samsung aware that the problem is still persisting with the HLN series. They have claimed that less than 5% of HLM series had this problem - a combination of fused bulbs and improperly seated lamp assemblies.

I thought Samsung claimed less than 1% and a massive quality control effort. I'm sorry to see it popping up in the HLN sets too. The Panasonic DLP seems to have started doing something similar. I wonder ...

The HLN567 is now back to July and Toshiba may have a 57" LCoS ready by October. One of my original reasons for waiting for the HLN series was to get the "three red lights" behind us. Now it looks like "htwaits" again.
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post #60 of 2628
5/12/03 at 3:32pm
Thread Starter 
You're right. Les. Samsung has claimed 1% in exchanges with other forum members. I think that people in this forum believe the percentage is higher. Related threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ng#post2059960

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ng#post2003674

In order to have broad adaption of this product, Samsung HAS to put this problem behind.

I can understand why you may be reconsidering your options.
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