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The Official HD Leeza review thread. - Page 3  

post #61 of 1632
I've got one of the units that is shutting down. Has anyone had to make the fix? I need to know which of the wires to swap on the fan. The plug that the fan uses is not reversible, it is keyed. This leads me to believe another connection needs to be corrected. TIA for your help.
KevD
post #62 of 1632
I would like to add a couple of movies to this comparison testing. I am a DVD fanatic with over 600 titles to choose from I always seem to choose between these 2 when doing comparisons, "The Edge " the intial scene when they arrive at the small airport right until they all arrive at motel in the mountains. The motel scene is extremely 3 D. The other scene is from "Judge Dredd", The intial fly by scene to when the fighting breaks out and Stallone comes in with his motorcycle and then talks to the people involved in the block war. Absolutely 3-d . I was using a F3000 outputing 1080p into a E9500lc. I will admit that after udgrading all my components with Richard Gray products I noticed even more sharpness. A must for projectors in my opinion.
JC
post #63 of 1632
Can anyone confirm whether or not I would see any difference for my set up? I currently run the Digital Leeza with a Sony G70.
Will there be any differences with the HD Leeza? My installer told me that my projector would not handle Scaling HD content in a way that would be noticeable. Any thoughts?


David
post #64 of 1632
Mark_H,

I've definitely seen the same "noise" artifacts with various different setups. It was the regular rendition of 5th element, not superbit.

Sounds like the HDL is doing very well (it definitely accepts SD 480i and PAL 576i) but on different inputs than the HDTV.

It sounds like the main functionality of the unit is good, but the UI needs some improvement. Sounds like the first firmware update will resolve those issues and make it a great buy!

Keep those results coming, this is very interesting stuff!
post #65 of 1632
David, I own a Digital Leeza and an Electrohome 8501. Your Sony is everybit as good so I think you will see improvement but perhaps not when going from 1080i to 1080p. 1080p is most likely going to be a little soft on both our machines.
post #66 of 1632
I had the privilege today of helping Jeff “thebland†set up his new HDL and JVC DLA-G150CL with Panamorph.

We connected the HDL DVI out to the JVC DVI input. The DVD player was set to 480i output via SDI to the HDL SDI input. The output aspect ratio was set for 1.33:1 at 1280 x 960, 60Hz (1.33 was used to accommodate the Panamorph). The projector was set to 1:1 pixel mapping and zoomed slightly to fit the screen.

After everything was connected and set up we fired up “The Fifth Element†Superbit edition, to try things out. After some adjusting with the Panamorph, the picture snapped in and looked great, see the attached screenshots. After a minute or so, we noticed that the projector was “loosing†the DVI signal and would drop to the “blue†no signal screen for a second and then “find†the signal again. We checked the connections. The SDI connection to the DVD player seemed loose, so we tightened it up. Still drops to a blue screen every few seconds at seemingly random intervals. We tried a different SDI cable, same result. Next we tried displaying a KDL internal test pattern, with the same loss of DVI signal.

Thinking the problem could be in the DVI cable, we replaced it. No signal loss for a minute or two, then it began again in earnest, end of DVI fault theory.

In a long shot hope of stopping the “blue screen†menace, we changed the output refresh from 60Hz to 72Hz. Lo, and behold the signal loss stopped, but was replaced by horrible stuttering as the projector translated the 72Hz frame rate to its internal 60Hz panel refresh rate. We also tried 48Hz and 75Hz, neither of which produced the “blue screen†effect. 75Hz refresh minimized the stuttering effect, but does not eliminate it.

We tried using the component input on the projector at 60Hz, and the RGBHV driven by an HTPC/Laptop, all of which worked fine.

Ran out of time and didn't get to try it with an HD source.

At this point I’m not sure if this is an HDL issue, a JVC issue or an interaction of the two. The picture quality produced by the HDL was much better than the internal JVC de-interlacer/scaler. Overall the HDL was not difficult to install or set up, although the response time on the menu, in particular on the output resolution setting, is slow.

Screenshots:

http://www.cmcpics.homestead.com/screenshot1_thumb.jpg

Click for full size image.

http://www.cmcpics.homestead.com/screenshot2_thumb.jpg

Click for full size image.
post #67 of 1632
There's a lot of chatter about the slow gui. For people with a single display, once you've got everything set up, doe sthe sluggish interface matter at all?

And I don't think anyone has yet answered ofer's question (or maybe I missed it): how good is control by the discrete commands?
post #68 of 1632
I think what Alan is getting at is that it can't be that much slower than the TiVo interface sliggushness, and that certainly didn't keep millions from being bought/sold. :)

Still, I am curious as to the DVI@60Hz problem. Maybe it needs 59.xyz Hz?
post #69 of 1632
"In a long shot hope of stopping the “blue screen†menace, we changed the output refresh from 60Hz to 72Hz."

My G150 handles DVI (1360x1024 and 1280x1024) @ 60Hz without any issues via HTPC using the ATI 9000 Pro. I thought they were going to ship the 1360(5) resolution for the G150 as it seems a shame to go to these lengths to get a great image and then have to zoom it.
post #70 of 1632
Is it just me who is impressed with the color fidelity of those screen shots? The images are a bit soft, it's true, but I assume that's the result of pausing the DVD player. But the quality of the color reproduction leaves nothing to be desired.
post #71 of 1632
I think that the proper way to isolate myhspt/thebland's problems is to determine the exact timings (front porch/back porch/etc.) used by the HD Leeza, and reproduce them with an HTPC running PowerStrip, using the same DVI cable. If the blue screens persist, then you can eliminate the HDL as the problem...

I had a blue screen problem with my setup awhile back, and the culprit ended up being the video card's DVI output. The giveaway was that my HDTV decoder's DVI output never caused blue screens.
post #72 of 1632
mysphyt,

Those pictures look very nice, were they taken when the player was paused or while it was running?

You need to find a spot where motion is almost non-existant and shoot while the player is running (pause usually reduces the resolution dramatically!).

Alan,

From what I understand, the discrete functions are supposed to be supported through a pronto CCF.
post #73 of 1632
"I think what Alan is getting at is that it can't be that much slower than the TiVo interface sliggushness, and that certainly didn't keep millions from being bought/sold."

Or 650,000ish, which is actually the number of Tivos in use. Not millions -- yet!

I'm getting a little impatient: Can anyone say if this thing is worth $4,000?
post #74 of 1632
I switched from 1080p to 960p for NTSC DVD and all the artefact problems I saw with the Fifth Element went away! This must indicate that the scaling algorithm in the HDL is to blame, and then when scaling from SD to 1080p it introduces the errors we are seeing? It also explains why HD deinterlacing to 1080p actually looks so good because the scaler isn't involved...

Mark.
post #75 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by PF
Is it just me who is impressed with the color fidelity of those screen shots? The images are a bit soft, it's true, but I assume that's the result of pausing the DVD player. But the quality of the color reproduction leaves nothing to be desired.
You can not judge color by watching screenshots taken
by a camera. The camera has its own color reproduction
function. So does the monitor you watch the picture on.
On my monitor for example Leeloo's hair is way too brownish instead of a vivid orange.
post #76 of 1632
mhafener,

You need to calibrate your monitor to avoid such problems.

Only very high end digital cameras allow you to produce a perfectly calibrated image from their output.

That said, mysphyt's pictures are very vivid and good looking.
post #77 of 1632
Thanks Chris (MYSPHYT) for all your help yesterday. This guy is a true techno-addict. A pleasure to have in one's theater.

All and all pretty satisfied with the results except for the blue screen / signal loss at 60 hz. It is a great improvement over the internal scaler.

We did notice that the SDI connector wasn't as smooth (seemed slightly oval instead of round) which caused some difficulty in placing SDI cable. We used two different SDI cables (KD SDI cable and Bettercables SDI). However, once the refresh was switched from 60 hz, cable or not, the blue screens disappeared completely.

We really only tried the 1280 X 960 res due to time constraints.

The screen shots looked great in person (more vivid) and darn it!!! I should have engaged the Electrimask.

Charles, if I remember, wasn't there a mod of some sort to get the G-150 to accept DVI at 1360 X 1024 (1:1)???

Would LEEZA be capable of deleivering 1:1 1360 X 1024 via a firmware upgrade? I remember getting that resolution was somewhat complicated.

Could you explain?

A 1360 X 1024 resolution upgrade would be pretty desireable for us DILA (G-150) users.

Mike ....are you listening;-)
post #78 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by thebland
Would LEEZA be capable of deleivering 1:1 1360 X 1024 via a firmware upgrade? I remember getting that resolution was somewhat complicated.


Could you explain?
The resolution might be possible now... the HDL has a number of built in resolutions which are all adjustable both horizontally and vertically - so you choose a resolution close to the one you want and adjust to the desired resolution from there.

Mark.
post #79 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by oferlaor
mhafener,

You need to calibrate your monitor to avoid such problems.

Only very high end digital cameras allow you to produce a perfectly calibrated image from their output.

That said, mysphyt's pictures are very vivid and good looking.
You can calibrate the whole chain, but that's impossible
in this context, if someone posts a picture taken with
an unknown camera and unknown settings from an unknown
screen and so on. First you need a reference that's correct
and then you can tweak the whole system till the monitor
looks like the reference.
Posting pics here proves nothing, neither good nor bad.
It can be fun to watch, but further conclusions are invalid.
post #80 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by Charles R
"In a long shot hope of stopping the “blue screen†menace, we changed the output refresh from 60Hz to 72Hz."

My G150 handles DVI (1360x1024 and 1280x1024) @ 60Hz without any issues via HTPC using the ATI 9000 Pro. I thought they were going to ship the 1360(5) resolution for the G150 as it seems a shame to go to these lengths to get a great image and then have to zoom it.
The HDL does include 1365 x 1024, but this was not accepted by the JVC 150CL in 1:1 mode well at all, it caused the picture to "wrap" the screen horizontally. No 1360 x 1024 support.

The screenshots were taken in pause mode. The actuall dynamic range on the screen is higher, the whites are a bit crushed by the camera in the photos. The color fidelity really is that good. We did a complete calibration on the projector before setting up the HDL. All this on a 10' screen too!
post #81 of 1632
the bland,

Sounds like a sync issue. In all likelyhood the projector can't sync to that particular rate, or needs a slightly different sync). As there are many devices with DVI support that's "quirky" (for native rate, in particular), I would expect for a list to be made of timing (HTPC style). Then, they would have two variations of 1360x768 available.

I simply do not expect all plasmas and all displays to have the same sync and timing issues (portch, refresh, etc.) as every other dispaly. In addition, there are many displays that only do NR properly at a SPECIFIC rate (or, as in this case, refuse to do it for a specific rate).

As the unit has custom timing feature, it looks like that would fix the issue, as long as you have the proper timing for each display. I think this information should be available either from the vendor (of the display) or on the HTPC forums.

mhafner,

We are in agreement, the camera also needs to be calibrated.
post #82 of 1632
Of course, we could forget about calibrating the camera if Jeff or Mark would just entertain a home theater meet. :D

But then, I would have to have my prescription eyewear calibrated, hehe.
post #83 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by mysphyt
After everything was connected and set up we fired up “The Fifth Element†Superbit edition, to try things out. After some adjusting with the Panamorph, the picture snapped in and looked great, see the attached screenshots. After a minute or so, we noticed that the projector was “loosing†the DVI signal and would drop to the “blue†no signal screen for a second and then “find†the signal again.
I have now seen this too in my setup - SDI to HDL, RGBHV to projector.

It only seems to happen on the SDI connection.

Mark
post #84 of 1632
The Fifth Element/Matrix artefacts I've described are only visible via SDI! While I was connected via component the artefacts did not show up at all...

Any ideas?

Mark
post #85 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark_H
I have now seen this too in my setup - SDI to HDL, RGBHV to projector.

It only seems to happen on the SDI connection.
We too suspected the SDI link at first, but the problem persisted with even the internal HDL test patterns, as long as the output was 1280x960 @60Hz via DVI.

If you saw the same thing on the RGBHV ouput, what resolution were you using?
post #86 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by mysphyt
We too suspected the SDI link at first, but the problem persisted with even the internal HDL test patterns, as long as the output was 1280x960 @60Hz via DVI.

If you saw the same thing on the RGBHV ouput, what resolution were you using?
1432x960@60

Mark
post #87 of 1632
Also noted.....

The LEEZA has caused a hum through my system.

I can hear it through only one of my subs. THe amp that is driving that sub is also driving a second sub, too, but with no hum.

THe amp drives two subs but the hum only comes from 1 of the 2 subs.

As soon as I unplug the LEEZA and all associated cabling unplugged (DVI & SDI) the hum completely disappears.

It makes sense that it is the LEEZA as I had no hum prior to adding the LEEZA.

Anyone noticed this?

Thanks

JEff
post #88 of 1632
Jeff,

Sounds like a ground loop / ground hum (there are many posts on this subject on AVS - you never think it'll happen to you, but it does...).

Make sure that everything is grounded properly and that the HDL is hooked up on the same power connection as the rest of the system. If it is hooked up to another wall socket, that could be causing the ground hum.
post #89 of 1632
Quote:
Originally posted by mhafner
You can calibrate the whole chain, but that's impossible
in this context, if someone posts a picture taken with
an unknown camera and unknown settings from an unknown
screen and so on....
Posting pics here proves nothing, neither good nor bad....
I think we are all aware of this having hung out here at AVS for years now. But we're not printing a 6-color catalog here -- we're just trying to get a sense of what the HD Leeza is like. By comparison, having seen precisely the same scene on a G90 on Friday, fed by a Faroudja DCS at 1365 X 1024, my general sense from those photos is that the projected image through the HD Leeza and JVC is pretty darn good.

That's all.
post #90 of 1632
This may be off the wall thinking but could there be any relationship to the hum introduced by the LEEZA and the problems at 60 hz refresh and the associated drop outs??

Isn't hum a 60 hz phenomenon?

Could there be a relationship between the 60 hz refresh drop out and the audible, 60 hz hum???

If I'm nuts, go ahead and say so....I'm no electrician.
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