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White, Grey, or Silver - A Review! - Page 24

post #691 of 1037
It is a lot smaller too.
post #692 of 1037
Quote:


Originally Posted by xboy360
heh the plasma is brighter.. :P

Which plasma is that?


It's also not the exact same frame that is being shown. Take a look at the bottom part of the advertisement for the whiskey right above the globe to see what I'm referring to. If anything, the top of the globe on the plasma shot has less detail.

Danny, have you calibrated the pj with Avia or DVE yet ?
post #693 of 1037
The Plasma screen is a Vizio 50" from Costco.

Both the Plasma and my pj have been calibrated with Avia.

It may not be the exact same millisecond in the movie, but its as close as I am going to do for you finiky AV dorks :P

-Danny
post #694 of 1037
I appreciate the screenshots and think they both look very nice.
post #695 of 1037
Need assistance with screen selection for my Z4.
My conditions:
1. I can control lighting in the room;
2. Projection distance 15.5';
3. Projector ceiling mounted @ 9.5';
4. Seating distance about 16'-17';
5. Planning to use fixed wall 119" Diag. screen.
Need help with: screen color (gray or white), screen gain, and a MILION $$$$ question "screen manufacturer". I am very interested in Saaria.

Thank you for the help.
post #696 of 1037
Need assistance with screen selection for my Z4.
My conditions:
1. I can control lighting in the room;
2. Projection distance 15.5';
3. Projector ceiling mounted @ 9.5';
4. Seating distance about 16'-17';
5. Planning to use fixed wall 119" Diag. screen.
Need help with: screen color (gray or white), screen gain, and a MILION $$$$ question "screen manufacturer". I am very interested in Saaria.

Thank you for the help.
post #697 of 1037
I have had my 110" Silverstar for a few days now. I have been amazed at what this screen does for an image!! The most noticeable attribute is the 3 D effect it displays with HD material. I agree with Tryg, a screen, and this one in particular can make more difference than upgrading a projector. I have had a 1.5 BW Vutec, DaLite HiPower and this one trumps them all.

I think folks in the HT hobby arena are really missing the boat if they do not consider the SS.

Oh yes, I am have an HT 510 NEC machine that now projects an image that looks as good as some of the $2500 ones and in some cases a lot better. Running in econo mode with 1000+ hours.

If you are looking for a remarkable upgrade to your system, take a look at the SS. The small sample they send does no justice to this screen. I took the advice of Tryg and the contributors to this thread and wholeheartedly agree with their assessment of the performance of the SS screen. No other vendor has anything like it.

It looks like a million bucks on the front wall of my HT with its 3 1/4 black velvet frame.

Some indicated the difficulty in installing it. I did it by myself with a tape measure, level and electric screw driver. Took about an hour. Just be sure to measure all the dimensions on the screen itself. The top mounts did not line up with the bottom ones on my screen. So don't assume you can mount the bottom brackets to line up with the top ones.
post #698 of 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcewin View Post

I have had a 1.5 BW Vutec, DaLite HiPower and this one trumps them all.


I have a SS but would be interested to hear your comments on the HP. I've heard numerous posts that under the right setup(table top mounted and narrow viewing angle) the HP would be better than the SS due to lack of sheen.
post #699 of 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimason View Post

I have a SS but would be interested to hear your comments on the HP. I've heard numerous posts that under the right setup(table top mounted and narrow viewing angle) the HP would be better than the SS due to lack of sheen.

I liked the HIpower when the proj was table mounted. I moved my proj to ceiling and the Hipower became ordinary. Even with the Hipower on table, I still prefer the SS. The sheen does not bother me. It is a tradeoff I am willing to accept.
post #700 of 1037
My 120.5" SS looks like a HUGE plasma. I wouldn't trade it for any other screen on the market. With a great PJ you will not see any sheen or sparkles. Kudos to VUTEC!
post #701 of 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

My 120.5" SS looks like a HUGE plasma. I wouldn't trade it for any other screen on the market. With a great PJ you will not see any sheen or sparkles. Kudos to VUTEC!

Hey Joe, why do you think the sheen or sparkles would be affected by the PJ?
post #702 of 1037
Good question Rob, when I had a benq 7700 I would notice in brighter sky scenes sheen sometimes. With the H79 I see a brilliant, perfect, noise free picture. The 7700 was very bright, and it helped produce that artifact that some complain about with the SS...
post #703 of 1037
I removed this post of mine from a different thread and thought that I'd post it here in case anyone was interested.


120.5" SilverStar in ambient lighting conditions.

Keep in mind that I am in no way a qualified photographer at doing this. I'm an amateur at best and still don't really know how to use the camera which is a Fuji F10. I bought it around Christmas and experimented a bit with it back then and haven't used it since and had already forgotten most of what I learned from my initial use of it.

The room is 15' x 23' and has 4 recessed lights that are 65 watts each. Two in the middle about 13' from the screen and the back two are 20' from the screen.

Projector is an Infocus SP4805 in econo mode with a Hoya HMC ND2 filter on the lens and almost 700 hours on the lamp. Estimated lumens are around 300.

The camera is in auto mode for everything except for the ISO speed which is set at 800.

I screwed up and forgot to take a shot of the front of the room with lights on. This is what the back half looks like with the lights at 100%.




From last nights game:

Lights on 100%

At 70%

At 30%

No lights



Fifth Element

Lights on 100%

At 70%

At 30%

Lights off
post #704 of 1037
From last years Super Bowl

Lights on 100%

At 80%

At 50%

At 25%


Except for the 100% on and the lights off shots, the other percentages are estimates. My dimmer is the Lutron Maestro. It has seven tiny led's that light up on the wall plate from off to full on, but it takes about twelve button presses to reach 100% on.

I am going to try and do this again but with different screen shots and more accurate numbers for the lighting levels sometime over the next week or so and will post it in a separate thread.
post #705 of 1037
Great setup! Great idea!
Might I suggest to borrow or rent a light meter and turn off the projector before each test?
ew
post #706 of 1037
Lights off is excellent.

Overall I am having trouble. Currently I have a giant sheet of white paper on my wall. This looks good except the wall color comin thru.

Anyway, I got several samples from dalite, and the white just looks much more vibrant. How does one really test with a tiny little sample. I need a whole screen, then I need to color and brightness adjust the projector to match the screen. Putting pieces up side by side is not doing them justice. The white just thrashes the others. And the brighter the white the better its looking.

Even in this thread the white looks the best. The silver has overbrightness in some shots and the grey has overdarkness in some, red flower is good example. White seems like a good compromise. At the end of the day, the grey screen just looks like a darker white screen.

I assume the grey looks better with the lights on, but the white looks good enough to watch TV.

I'm really stuck comprehending why I would buy anything but the most flattest white I can find!?! Hell if the sheet of paper were thicker I could just use that... Maybe I can go to a print shop and request a giant piece of white posterboard. Print shots are dead serious about color, so if they say its white then its WHITE.

Im having a tough time with grey.
post #707 of 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnoyeB View Post

Lights off is excellent. ...Im having a tough time with grey.

Well. Maybe a professional photographer can enlighten us. (pardon the pun)
There is a thing about color temperature that can change the story between what screen to use with the right combination of on screen projected lighting and ambient lighting and such.
I could only imagine that if a screen isn't completely "light balanced" then any illuminated/projected image thrown onto the surface could be good but not as accurate as the projector, projecting this image. That being said, screen choices are not something to decide on to better an image: rather what screen to purchase to minimize degradation.
As for an example noted before. A grey screen can be good at minimizing reflecting ambient light therby retaining a better contrast level. If your application demands it. etc.
So one would think. The best tests for ultimate picture would be to test for no ambient light in the room at all. It's a no brainer that any projector/ screen can look better with the lights totally off. If your application is with a little more every day use, you might likely end up with some ambient light to function around the room better.
Even having no ambient light in the room is not fully possible. The sheer light thrown from the projector, reflected off the screen and onto a few walls can also raise the ambient light as well. Unless you had special walls that absorbed lighting better such as a textured matt-black surface.
A question I might ask is. How much ambient lighting is average for the average user while watching something on their front projector?

I'd figure about 30-50% lighting as tested above. I say that because it could allow most to find their way out of and back to their chair without tripping over something. It could allow better overall functionality like to converse with the person next to you while visiting or reading something. Even if it's just to read the buttons on your remote or to find the right remote off the coffee table.
--
So at what lumens could this theoretical 30-50% lighting level be?
What projector could sku these tests?
And with this info, what screen to base this off of would best operate during this environment the best? Concidering that this lighing situation could likely be the most widely used.

That's probably why the gray screens are popular now that the projectors can keep up.
However, my application is where there is a bit of ambient light. I like to entertain and most of the time I have friends over when I use the screen. I have a bit of lights on to converse and walk about the room if necessary. You know? to go grab another beer and such.
Because of the broader seating angle, less color shift, no sparklies, and overall good pic for a DLP projector I use a matte white Day-Lite.
If I want to use it during the day with the drapes open, I should get a grey screen. If I want to impress the visitors with best contrast and all, it's lights out!(totally). This also goes without saying that for each lighting situation your settings on your projector system could use a little tweaking to maximize each application.
I'm curious if anyone would care to use their light meter for such a test?
ew
post #708 of 1037
I agree with you Erik. The problem is the screen manufacturers are not giving us enough information. Or were not getting it.

Matte White:
Gain: 1.0
View angle: 50

High Contrast Cinema Vision (grey)
Gain: 1.1
View angle: 45

How does a grey screen that is not curved have more gain that a white screen? I suppose thats because the grey screen is smoother and reflects in more direct angles as opposed to the matte screen that reflects at random angles. In computer graphics terms, the HCCV has more specular reflectance while the Matte White has less. The MW reflects in a diffuse way.

So the gist of the grey screen technique seems to be, make it darker than white so it reflects less surrounding light, then make it shiny so it reflects more light but within a tighter angle. Giving you about the same overall reflectance. So there is a difference between reflectance and gain. Most writeups seem to conflate the two.

Thus I would think that a grey screen can give you less washout. I hate to call this increased contrast because this effect only works with the lights on. With the lights off the grey screen looses its advantage and becomes the worse screen giving you less reflectance and a tighter viewing angle due to its gain. Even with the lights on, the grey screen requires the projector to put more light on it.

So basically noone should ever be choosing between a grey screen and a white screen. We should start calling them, a day-viewing screen (specular, dark) and a night-viewing screen (diffuse, light). The two have totall different uses and one is not good at the others job. Decide your viewing conditions, then you know which type of screen to go with. Then you can compare various versions of that type of screen.


So for me since my basement has barely any light, and I have special dimmable sconces with low wattage bulbs pointing away from the screen, there is no point in a grey screen.

Did I get anything wrong here?
post #709 of 1037
It isn't quite that simple. A bright LCD display could benefit from a grey screen for night viewing by enhancing the black levels and toning down over-brightness.
post #710 of 1037
SS vs HP(on the table) which one has better 3D look?
post #711 of 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Good question Rob, when I had a benq 7700 I would notice in brighter sky scenes sheen sometimes. With the H79 I see a brilliant, perfect, noise free picture. The 7700 was very bright, and it helped produce that artifact that some complain about with the SS...

Interesting.

Thanks for the reply Joe.
post #712 of 1037
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazebg View Post

SS vs HP(on the table) which one has better 3D look?

Screen is a passive device. look for a good projector
post #713 of 1037
After reviewing the screen shots on the first page, I think the SS looks the worst. It's overly bright and washes out anything that's partially bright. For instance, in the shot with the two women sitting to eat, the texture of the stone material behind them can be seen on the white and grey; on the SS, it's completely washed out. Based on just the front page (not having read this entire thread), I personally wouldn't have a SS. (That's viewing these on my current LCD monitor, which doesn't have the deepest of blacks.) In my situation, where I need a pulldown/electric screen, it does not appear that Vutec makes a SS.
post #714 of 1037
I have been thinking about the Da_lite high power screen because I want to go to a 2:35 ratio 115 inch wide screen and because the High power is a retroreflective screen the fall off in Brightness as the viewing angle increases is going to go as the cos squared as opposed to the cos 4 th in a typical lambetertian screen. I currently own a 100 inch diagonal firehawk , which is a reflective screen and I am concerned that the wider viewing angle will show a dramatic falloff in Brightness at the edges of the viewing field. I am also concerned about ambient light from the side, as the screen is in my living room and a retroreflective screen should have better ambient rejection in that situation. I have thought about curved screens but since the projector lens is designed to image a flat field I would worry about defocus.

thanks for doing the test it was extremely informative
post #715 of 1037
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlang46 View Post

I am concerned that the wider viewing angle will show a dramatic falloff in Brightness at the edges of the viewing field.

Shouldn't if you view along the light path
post #716 of 1037
ctviggen, I looked as well, and I can make out plenty of stone texture on the facing column behind the 2 women sitting to eat. Maybe your PC monitor should be adjusted??? I think screen shots like these should not be scrutinized in that manner, rather, look at the over all saturation and likewise comparison to each area of the shot, the SS wins every time. The SS is not washed out - I've tried to find evidence of wash out on these screen shots and it doesn't exist. Try this, save the pic to the HD on your PC. Now open that pic in the photo editor - any photo editor and adjust the brightness down just a little, you'll see the texture of the stone, meaning it is not washed out since the camera did detect the texture, even though your display setting could not render it. Also further proving that the SS does not wash out the image, - if it did the camera screen shot would not have detected it.
post #717 of 1037
I love my Silverstar. Very glad I went with it.
Very seldom I get some sheen, which I understand not all projectors get, but it is well worth it. I can watch football in the morning with tons of ambient light, and at night it is just awesome.
Warren.
post #718 of 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

After reviewing the screen shots on the first page, I think the SS looks the worst. It's overly bright and washes out anything that's partially bright. For instance, in the shot with the two women sitting to eat, the texture of the stone material behind them can be seen on the white and grey; on the SS, it's completely washed out. Based on just the front page (not having read this entire thread), I personally wouldn't have a SS. (That's viewing these on my current LCD monitor, which doesn't have the deepest of blacks.) In my situation, where I need a pulldown/electric screen, it does not appear that Vutec makes a SS.

Hmmm I can see the texture fine on my pc monitor. What is that vide/film from? I'd like to try it on my screen as well.
post #719 of 1037
Great review!!! Thanks.
post #720 of 1037
Thread Starter 
new review coming soon!
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