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Dwin TV3 Owners Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 2660
6/20/03 at 8:46am
Rooney,

My findings show that each feed needs to be specifically tuned/calibrated.

Fred,

I also have occasional sync problems, mostly after I have been switching sources repeatedly. Requires me to power off/on the source, then it syncs immediately. I wasn't sure if the problem was related to the Dwin or the source that is feeding it.

This happens with my 931 and my Receiver routed devices (my Receiver is connected from it's video out port to one of the component in's on the Dwin, with several sources connected to the Receiver, basically I use the Receiver as a switching device because I have more than two component sources).
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post #302 of 2660
6/20/03 at 8:59am
Has anybody actually done a side by side comparison with an HD2 DLP (or any DLP for that matter) between White and/or Gray screens and the new Silverstar?
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post #303 of 2660
6/20/03 at 8:59am
Thomas,

I have a question, when you did the calibration of your dvi input using the avia disc played on your samsung 931 at 720p do you have enough controls in tv3 that are enabled to be able to do the calibration?

-twelly
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post #304 of 2660
6/20/03 at 9:21am
Not sure what you mean, but I was able to use the standard Video adjustments from the Dwin control menu (i.e. Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint and Sharpness) during each AVIA panel.

They work fairly well, however, I think AVIA is coming out with a digital disk that will work more effectively. In some of the AVIA screen setup panels the outside gray bar doesn't show up at all, so you just take an educated guess with some of the settings.
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post #305 of 2660
6/20/03 at 9:49am
Thomas,

Thanks for the info. I thought I read some postings somewhere that certain control menus are disabled (i.e. other than aspect control) when you are feeding the pj with 720p signal. I am not familiar with all the pj controls other than the standard ones, but something like color temp and gray scale which I keep reading from other posts. Are you planning to use colorfacts to further tweak the pj?

thanks,
-twelly
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post #306 of 2660
6/20/03 at 10:39am
Twelly,

I think your referring to the size adjustments not being available for the dvi connections. The dvi sizing is fixed so the size menu doesn't show up. All the other inputs are adjustable. Other than that I don't know of any menus not being available.
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post #307 of 2660
6/20/03 at 11:34am
Exactly.

Twelly,

Regarding Colorfacts and other types of adjustments and calibrations, I will definitely explore them over the next few months. Right now I have a high level of satisfaction with my PQ, so more than likely I will indulge myself in movie watching for a while.
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post #308 of 2660
6/20/03 at 11:54am
Quote:


I think your referring to the size adjustments not being available for the dvi connections. The dvi sizing is fixed so the size menu doesn't show up. All the other inputs are adjustable. Other than that I don't know of any menus not being available.

In the (secret) advanced menu, gray scale adjustments are not available on the DVI input. They are also unavailable on any input running 480i. It is possible this may change with the upgraded chips.


__________________
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post #309 of 2660
6/20/03 at 6:04pm
Scottsol,
By upgraded chips, are you referring to the new TV3's with the HDCP compliance?

Tom,
Thanx for the clarification.

AGN
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post #310 of 2660
6/20/03 at 6:26pm
Guys, In the screenshots I took, I notice a cleaner picture with the Single link DVI cable vs the Dual link. Is there any reason for this ?

Should I buy another Single link DVI cable to use witht he HTPC(radeon card) to the DWIN?

I have a dual link for that right now, and I just bought the single link(from what someone said earlier in this post about DWIN recomending a single link) for the HD STB(zenith 520) which I willl use DVI out for.

Thanks for any info,
Fred
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post #311 of 2660
6/20/03 at 6:40pm
Quote:


By upgraded chips, are you referring to the new TV3's with the HDCP compliance?

Yes! The HDCP issue is not the only one addressed in the update.
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post #312 of 2660
6/20/03 at 6:46pm
Fred,

Are both cables the same length, from the same manufacturer and used for the same amount of time?
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post #313 of 2660
6/20/03 at 6:53pm
The cables are the same manufacturer(Pacific cable), and the dual link is 1 meter, while the single link is 2 meter. The dual link is less than 1 month older then the single link.
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post #314 of 2660
6/20/03 at 6:56pm
Do you think it is worth it for me to buy another single link cable(its only $26.00).
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post #315 of 2660
6/20/03 at 7:02pm
Only you can answer that Fred!

Are you sure you are seeing a better picture with the single link cable? How much difference is there? Can you describe the difference?

Are you sure you just aren't being sensitive to the fact that you have learned that Dwin recommends the single link cable? As far as I know, the only reason to recommend this is because their really isn't any need for a dual link cable at this time, but there shouldn't be any difference in quality AFAIK.
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post #316 of 2660
6/20/03 at 7:16pm
Rob, at the other where I help out, there is a post with the pics. The difference is not small.


If you get a chance, check it out and let me know what you think.
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post #317 of 2660
6/20/03 at 7:19pm
Well, my experience is essentially all with digital audio so this is possibly a faulty extrapolation, but here goes.

If the characteristic impedance of the cables or input/outputs is not well controlled, then a longer cable may have better performance because of the way it handles reflected signals. If the dual link has less than 100 hrs of use and the single link more, there could be a break-in factor. If the dual link uses different windings because of the extra conductors, that could change the characteristic impedance. There might be significant sample to sample variations with this brand .

Conclusion, we don't know if the difference you saw is because of length, age, construction differences or sample to sample variation. Of course, there will be lot of people who won't think that the cables could make a difference in any case.
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post #318 of 2660
6/20/03 at 7:22pm
Quote:


Of course, there will be lot of people who won't think that the cables could make a difference in any case.

Especially when we are dealing with a "digital" cable. Shouldn't the cable either work or not work, without any real "in between"?
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post #319 of 2660
6/20/03 at 7:39pm
To those who listen with open ears and minds there is no question that digital audio cables make a sonic difference . The most common explanation is that they influence the amount of time jitter in the signal- it is not only important that all the bits are correct, but that their timing is as well. Of course, with elaborate re-clocking circuits or separate clock lines the jitter factor would seem to not be important anymore, but the audible difference is still there.

Now I have always found the difference in audio cables to more easily discernible than video and I, and most people, have no experience yet comparing digital video cables. But there is one thing I am sure of, theory often lags behind experience, and our technical understanding is never complete.
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post #320 of 2660
6/20/03 at 8:09pm
Quote:


To those who listen with open ears and minds there is no question that digital audio cables make a sonic difference .

I don't want to stray too far from the subject of this thread here, but are you saying there is a sonic difference between digital audio cable and analog, or are you saying there are sonic differences between various digital cables?

I.e, did you use the word "make" when you meant to use the word "have"?
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post #321 of 2660
6/20/03 at 9:38pm
oh no. not the jitter discussion again. let's kill this now.
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post #322 of 2660
6/21/03 at 9:41am
I hear obvioius sonic differences between different digital audio cables (and transports for that matter).

This is a topic I prefer to avoid discussing on the forum, but Fred deserved an answer to his question.
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post #323 of 2660
6/21/03 at 9:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by bhuskins
FYI - I will be taking pictures of the conversion process for the TV3 original to the HDCP fully compliant TV3. Also, the switchover includes a chip for the main board and the DVI I/O board - nothing else. I have the 2 pieces in hand and I really had to beg to be the first in the country to receive the upgrade pieces by themselves. Apparently, they were/are using up all of the new parts on current shipping units and have had difficulty getting enough extras to accommodate the installed units out there. Even though I begged, I only got one full set. I still need several more.

Like I said though, I'll be taking pictures and posting in the next few days.

Brent Huskins
Media Design



Where are you! I've been sitting on the edge of my seat and now it broke!
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post #324 of 2660
6/21/03 at 9:59am
Sorry Don,

I didn't get to take pictures - I was in a hurry to get the unit out. I had stagged a non-upgraded TV3 for about 8 weeks that was for a job needed to be installed this week. DWIN rushed me the parts so that I could install it as an upgraded unit.

Now for the good news...DWIN shipped me the kits for my other installs that were prior to the upgrade. I should have them Monday or Tuesday of next week. I'll make sure when I go over to Toxarch's theater (one of my customers and a regular on AVS here) that one of us takes pictures of the conversion.

I do want to point out that the conversion on my stagged TV3 did correct all known HDCP issues.

Brent Huskins
Media Design
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post #325 of 2660
6/21/03 at 11:34am
Thread Starter 
Great news, Brent-

How about other settings? Did you need to go in and re-setup all the stuff that was previously memorized on non- DVI inputs?

I suppose Dwin is beginning to ship the parts to dealers now. Hopefully, I'll get mine soon.

Were there any difficulties in the switch over?
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post #326 of 2660
6/21/03 at 11:57am
No difficulties - took about 20 minutes - I hadn't previously set up this specific unit since it was new, just out of the box...so there was no way to compare it as far as settings go. I'll let you know when we do the others that have been previously set up.

Brent Huskins
Media Design
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post #327 of 2660
6/22/03 at 4:04pm
Thread Starter 
Finally had some time to dig into the projector head and install some dust filters and seal the light leaks from the projector front.

The filter material was obtained from Home Depot.

It is Polyurethane foam air conditioner filter that is 1/4 inches thick. I simply cut it to size and placed it with some gaffers tape.
Note that Gaffers tape is used which is NOT duct tape. Gaffers tape does not shed its adhesive and withstands heat much better.



Notice the dust accumulation around the lens. This was cleaned off and a strip of filter material taped to the lens barrel that also seals the light leaks from around the lens outside diameter as well. It does not restrict the ability to adjust the focus or zoom.




I also observed that the internal air construction includes two internal fans to force air into the bulb box as well as the back of the lens.

The color wheel and associated electronics is completely exposed so extra care must be taken when getting under the cover of the Dwin Projector.



The bulb mounts in place with screws and wired with screwed down connections as opposed to plug-in design.

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post #328 of 2660
6/22/03 at 4:10pm
Great post Don.

Is there any chance you could post this pics on a seperate website where they could be a little bigger? It's a bit hard to read some of the writing.

Very informative and helpful advice!
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post #329 of 2660
6/22/03 at 4:22pm
Thread Starter 
Sorry, I did the text layer and then sized the pics up and down to find the right size for this forum. Nothing critical on the text that was not stated in the post.

I'm not sure this is the best solution for the main filter placement. I wanted it inside but in hindsight, I'm thinking it would be better on the outside where I can monitor the dust accumulation and easily remove it to wash or replace without dropping the cover. I plan to redo that soon. I'm concerened that it now is an out of sight and out of mind installation that can accumulate dust buildup on the filter and suffer neglect. If it was on the outside I would see it and quickly clean it as the dust builds up. I'm just sorry I din't think of that earlier. Maybe next weekend, I'll make a bracket or clamp to hold a strip of filter material on the outside.

I would suggest that everyone filter the air as I noticed a significant quantity of dust buildup on the inside of the projector. It has all been carefully removed now. And, when using an air can to spray around the inside, one needs to be very careful around the wheel as this is a very fragile looking setup. It could easily be damaged by the force of an air can, I'd think.
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post #330 of 2660
6/22/03 at 11:56pm
Don, I was thinking about a triangle tube shaped filter for the main intake. That way I could still see how dirty the filter is. Plus the opening behind the intake grill is shaped that way so it would hold the filter against the grill. But you are right, an external filter would be better and easier to clean/replace. And I did like your solution around the lens.

When you had the bulb cover open, did you notice they used spots of silicone on the metal piece holding the bulb? You can see it in the picture of the bulb. Makes me wonder if they were put there "just in case" or if they were loose and rattling at first.

And Brent, I'll have my camera ready for when we do the upgrade. Bring a DVI cable with a Samsung if you have one laying around so we can have a look.
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