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RGB size adjustment control on Sony VPH 1272  

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hi there,

Although I am a regular visitor to this Forum and I am sure this topic has already been discussed (extensively), a search for previous threads about this particular topic has yielded no results.

Setup:

1: Sony VPH 1272Q
2: Ceiling
3: 72 in x 54 in (4:3 display format) with throw distance of 95 in (warm-up screen overlaps but this seems to be normal)
4: iScan Ultra
6: 640 x 480 for NTSC material, 640 x 576 for PAL (no visible scan lines from my seating position) via VGA breakout from iScan Ultra to RGBHV BNC connectors.

Here is a brief description of my problem:

I run my DVD player (Harman DVD 25) in 16:9 mode and as I have a 4:3 display format I therefore need to shrink the image by 33% in order to obtain the proper display format for anamorphic DVDs.

So far I have achieved an excellent result by using the RGB sizing controls on the remote.

For all non-anamorphic material I use the aspect ratio control on my iScan Ultra which just works fine.

So in essence I have the display device and output source constantly set in 16:9 mode and have the image squeezed via the RGB sizing controls.

Is this the correct way of operating?

Am I not needlessly stressing the tubes with RGB size set at 202 for width and 65 for height (which admittedly still leaves me with some wriggle room).

I am reluctant to adjust size via the service menu as this would throw out all the settings and convergence of my projector which was only recently professionally calibrated by a Sony technician.

Your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Michael
post #2 of 16
Michael,

I do not know the correct answer to your question, but I also adjust my 1272 (ceiling mounted, 80 x 60 4:3 screen), using the RGB key.

My understanding is that as long as you do not go over the edge of the phosphor, (leaving a little as a safety margin), you are OK.

In fact, adjusting the RGB size to be almost at max is a good thing, (bearing in mind the edge of phosphor) to maximize phosphor usage and increase light output.

I hope this is correct, as this is how mine is setup. :confused:

Paul
post #3 of 16
The VPH-127x projectors can be set to 2 different set of memory allowing two groups of picture settings including height, width, etc. I assume you are not using one of the external Sony switch boxes (e.g., PC-1271) and are just running the input directly into the projector;s RGB input A. First you must set one switch on the projector. If you have the installation manual for VPH-1272 this is described under the section "5BNC Mode Setting." If you don't have the installation manual you can download one from free from: http://www.crtcinema.com/manuals.html

After you have set this switch to the 5BNC 'ON' position you and may need to then reset you projector (unplug and then plug it back in). Now you switch between two different sets of memory within the projector for the picture settings by simply selecting Input 1 or Input A on the remote control. This allows you for example to set the projector up of 16x9 format using the Input A memory and for 3x4 format using the Input 1 memory.

I hope this helps.

Ron Jones
www.dtvmax.com
post #4 of 16
Michael,
You have set up your system correctly. By setting your DVD player to 16:9, you won't have the player trying to scale anamorphic DVD's into a 4:3 display. By using the vertical squeeze to restore proper aspect ratio for anamorphic discs, you are maximizing the vertical resolution.

You can use the memories as Ron suggested, for non-anamorphic 4:3 discs, but this is not required. Your iScan aspect ratio control does the trick.

Enjoy!
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot guys.

Your help has been greatly appreciated.

As things stand, I think I am inclined to leave the settings as they are as the PQ I obtain is, in my opinion, as good as it can be.

However, as I am a perfectionist at heart, I will at some later stage try to program the settings for 4:3 and 16:9 into the projector's memory. I simply love my projector and would really like to get the most out of it.

Having said that, I know I am being totally unreasonable here, but I have been toying with the idea of going one step up and acquiring the Sony VPH G70 although my current display device only has very low hours and outputs an amazing picture.

Nevertheless, I want to have this awe-dropping experience, you know the feeling when something hits you right in the middle of your belly and you say to yourself: "Wow"!

Somebody on this forum once reported that the difference in PQ by upgrading from a VPH 1272 to a VPH 70 was "night and day".

Of course, this would also involve getting a new scaler. Would it be wise to go the extra mile to be in complete CRT nirvana?

As usual. anybody who is willing to share their views on this rather subjective topic would be more than welcome.

Regards,

Michael
post #6 of 16
The 5BNC memorybank trick will only work if you use the RGB-input board.
I don't have it, but use a breakout cable on the round switchbox-jack, and in this way the 5BNC modeswitch trick don't work.

I use a htpc as scaler and 4:3 screen and get best results for PAL with 768*576 for both 4:3 and 16:9 material. I let the htpc squeese the image for the DVD 16:9 material.
I tried 1024*768 to make the resolution "fit" 16:9 material but the above mentioned solution gave me better PQ.

Henrik
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
Henrik,

Thanks for your feedback.

It would obviously be a great deal easier to have the scaler perform the anamorphic squeeze, but unfortunately the iScan Ultra does not provide this function.

However, I do recall reading once in a review of the Lumagen that sometimes it is better to adjust the display device rather than use the scaler for shrinking anamorphic material to the proper display format. Why this is so I do not know.

Furthermore, I have also read that with a number of scalers, notably with the Faroudja NRS, one needs to scale up to 720p in order to have access to this function. As the sweet spot of the Sony VPH 1272Q is within the 600 - 660p range, this is not a viable option. Here, the Lumagen seems to be more flexible.

As pointed out in an earlier post, I am a perfectionist at heart and am constantly on the lookout for improvements to my current setup, although I do have to stress again that the PQ obtained with my Sony VPH 1272Q and iScan Ultra on both DVD and Laserdisc is incredibly sharp. I think this is in part due to my relatively small screen size (72 in x 54 in) and the fact that I use high-quality cables.

It seems that Silicon Images will soon be bringing out a new product which I will definitely be looking at even though my iScan Ultra has only recently been put into service (as an upgrade from their very first product which was not PAL compatible and did not provide component inputs). Ideally, for the Sony VPH 1272Q, I would need a scaler which allows the user to clock in customized resolutions in order to match the sweet spot of the display device.

Regards,

Michael
post #8 of 16
Well I tried matching the resolution to the sweetspot on my 1271,
but PQ was much better in 768*576, even with 16:9 material.

My guess is that the PJ (1271) somehow treats the 768*576 signal more neutrally than any other resolution.

Henrik
post #9 of 16
It also seems logical that, at least for PAL 4:3 material, any convertment done to the signal wil degrade it, if it's not converted to the double resolution.
This is most often the case in the audio hifi segment, and after all, signal conditioning is signal conditioning.

Henrik
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Henrik,

Good to know that for PAL material 768 x 576 seems to hit he sweet spot of your projector. I will be making a note of that.

Of course, as you are well aware, it all depends on how your projector is set up.

I for one will be sticking to the iScan Ultra until a new and more flexible unit is rolled out. At one point I was also thinking of getting a high-def DVD player sich as the PD-1100, which also allows customizable resolutions. But I haven't read that much about this unit and until a product has been tried and tested I prefer to sit on the fence.

Cheers,

Michael
post #11 of 16
Michael

I'm also "a perfectionist at heart", and to the best of my knowlege my PJ is set up very near to perfect.

BTW. The ultimate DVD/scaler solution at the moment might be this one on the htpc forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=267735
It's about using the DVD-rom -> Hardware mpeg decoder card -> Parallel digital interface -> Video capturecard -> Dscaler -> VGA outputcard
The technique is completely new and, according to the people testing it, is better than anything else.

Henrik
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Henrik,

I am not at all familiar with this technology. Could you explain in layman's terms what such an HTPC/DVD player would look like. Is it something one has to build up from scratch? And what about the audio?

I personally tend to go for the more userfirendly type of solution and this is why the PD-1100 appeals to me as it offers progressive DVD and high-quality audio in an attractive box.

Regards,

Michael
post #13 of 16
On the possible move up to a G70, I have both a VPH-1271 and a G70 have have HD sources connected to each (as well as DVDs). I can certainly confirm that the G70 has much better resolution than my 1271 (which is very similar to the 1272 in terms of resolution).

Ron Jones
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Ron,

Ouch, just not what I wanted to hear.

I will now spend sleepless nights thinking about upgrading to the VPH G70, and how to achieve this objective, with limited financial resources.

Ever since the VPH G70 came out, I considered it a must-have as the G90 is in a totally different league in price terms at least. I personally think the Sony VPH G70 is the sleekest CRT projector ever made.

Keep on dreaming, Michael.

Cheers,
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally posted by MichaelDee
Henrik,

I am not at all familiar with this technology. Could you explain in layman's terms what such an HTPC/DVD player would look like.
Well the physical aperance is up to you, there's a number of cases that look like STB. HiFi components.

Quote:
Is it something one has to build up from scratch?
Yes .....unless you want to buy one of the prebuild HTPC that is possible to get on the net. It will however not be a god idea to buy one, as the metode I discribed would requiere you to change most of the htpc anyway.
It would require PC components for around 800$.

An example would be:
Some kind of case .... taste matters.
ASUS P4PE (w. netcard and 5.1 soundcard) motherboard
Pentium 4 Northwood 2.4GHz CPU (or more GHz)
512MB PC2700 RAM memory
CPU cooler (mine is a danish design w. only 12dB noise http://www.studiedata.dk/product.asp?product=930 )
Maxtor Harddisk 40-200? GB .... Fluid!!!(lownoise)
Pioneer DVD drive (easy to region crack and low noise crack)
Radion video card. (9100 is good and cheep at the moment)
M-Audio Revolution soundcard (if you dont have ext decoder)
....MPEG decodercard ( Use a combination mentioned )
....Capture card ( in the above written tread link )


Quote:
And what about the audio?
If you have an external ac3/dts decoder (as you proberbly have as audioquality seems to be importent to you), you just connect the digital sp/dif output of the soundcard/chip to your ext. decoder. If you dont have an ext. decoder but have 5.1 analog input on your preamp you go for the M-Audio Revolution soundcard. It's 7.1 channels has better soundqual. than many ext. decoders.

Quote:
I personally tend to go for the more userfriendly type of solution and this is why the PD-1100 appeals to me as it offers progressive DVD and high-quality audio in an attractive box.
The benefit of the solution is that you have a pure digital signal-path all the way from the DVD-drive through the mpeg decoding and to the scaler.
This can be done with a SDI (Serial Digital Interface) connection aswell, with some DVD players and a few scalers that provide the SDI connector.
But LiOn's test indicate that PQ is better with PDI (Parallel Digital Interface),
and this is only possible with the HTPC solution.

That it.................

Henrik
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Henrik,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

I will definitely be looking into the possibility of assembling my own video processor as this is probably the most flexible and cheapest option available and I am sure your valuable hints will help me on my way.

Thanks again.

Michael
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