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New York, NY - OTA - Page 8

post #211 of 17107
Technical reasons up to a year after 9/11 were plausible. Two years smells like a rotten apple. Wish I could get em all off DISH.
post #212 of 17107
George has been extremely quiet since he edited his intial post....anything going on George.....Can you tell us who didn't get their combiner payment in on time?? Who's to blame now??

Doug
post #213 of 17107
Quote:


Originally posted by Paperboy2003
George has been extremely quiet since he edited his intial post....anything going on George.....Can you tell us who didn't get their combiner payment in on time?? Who's to blame now??

Doug

Or did anybody see what he posted before he edited it?

Here's what he said in the HDTV-in-NYC Yahoo group:

Quote:


From: "George Thompson"
Date: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:23 pm
Subject: EBS combiner on hold till March '04


One of the signers of the grand alliance of stations to use the DTV
broadband antenna on ESB failed to come up with the money. The next
available time for Dielectric to work on the combiner is March '04.
GT

That's a little more clear, and depressing. Next time they can work on it is March, that means it won't be done until...

MC
post #214 of 17107
This is pathetic. How much money are we talking here? Even in the millions it's probably a drop in the bucket for some of the major networks considering the market. But what do I know...all I know is that I have never watched so much network TV since I got HDTV. I even watch PBS! I haven't don't that since Sesame Street was on when I was a toddler.

Why don't the other stations pony up the money and double-charge the loser when nobody watches their crappy SD signal, and they finally decide it was worth it?
post #215 of 17107
What you wrote MicroChip is essentially what George wrote here before he edited it. I just am curious (even though it doesn't matter) who the deadbeat is. Also why would they have to wait until March now....that strikes me as odd....does it have to do with the impending winter or are these 'combiners' only made at a certain time. It would seem odd that they could pay for it September and have it installed and running in November, but that they can't now do anything before March. Perhaps someone who understands that industry can shed some light on that.

Thanks

Doug
post #216 of 17107
What that might mean is that Dielectric is a major suppler of antennas and transmission equipment to the industry. They may be backed up in orders to fill and cannot put the EBS combiner in queue until March. That is probably a very good guess.
I do not think anyone outside of the inner circle of the alliance knows who the guilty party is and what the reason for not providing funds. I believe that they tend to shun publicity.
post #217 of 17107
Thread Starter 
I've pretty much given up on HD from NBC, ABC, and WB in the near future.

So the new antenna complex is delayed again. After all this time it really doesn't bother me all that much--after all, it's just TV (and the ads take up 25% of the total programming time).

But after getting used to the CBS HD programming I find that's more than enough for my busy schedule. After getting my set three years ago I was really disgusted with the lousy NTSC signal that my local Cablevision service provided, and started watching only HD except for news.

That's how I found CSI and other CBS programs I came to enjoy.

For me, at least, that means that whatever audience ABC and NBC are trying to reach, I'm not part of it. Norw will I be until, apparently, March of next year--if then.

Regardless of what they say, we all know the networks are businesses and their main goal is to maximize net profit. If advertisers on those networks don't care that they're not reaching me: fine! Then I don't care about not learning of their products or watching the shows they're sponsoring.

R
post #218 of 17107
I agree with most of what you are saying, but I would really like to watch West Wing in HD tonight, and can't. Also, if Angel is in HD this year and I can't see it, that would really annoy me. It also stinks for us MNF viewers. At least November would mean that we wouldn't miss the whole season.

However, I wouldn't have come to love CSI and CSI Miami if not for CBS-HD. I might get into other shows on other networks that I wouldn't otherwise, If they'd start broadcasting or come to an agreement with Cablevision.
post #219 of 17107
Now for something completely different...

Does anyone know when CBS will begin broadcasting Late Night with David Letterman in HD? Letterman was joking about the new HD cameras months ago (and even dented one with his microphone), but still no HD broadcasts.

- Bryan
post #220 of 17107
From what I've read in different threads over in the HDTV Programming forum, not for a while. Something to do with switching their control room over to handle HD. Not before the end of the year, anyway.
post #221 of 17107
I have to agree with you, cpto. HD viewers, one would think, is a pretty interesting demographic. The networks havn't had the opportunity to have such a captive audience in decades, and they're blowing it.

If the hdtv signals were live today, they'd have quite a bit of my attention, as CBS does. By the time they get their signals on the air, we'll all be addicted to CBS programing and there will be a lot more HD content on the traditional cable stations to compete with.

It will be interesting to see the population numbers on the HD demographic after the holiday season with all that new digital equipment in consumers hands. Wonder if this could be big enough to allow CBS to sneak in the back door and catch NBC and ABC.
post #222 of 17107
CBS if I recall, and this has nothing to do with HD, is the number one networkd now anyway. I thought I remember the order being CBS, NBC, ABC. Sure would be great if we could pin that on the lack of hd.

Enjoy CSI tonight!

Oh well...


Doug
post #223 of 17107
Thread Starter 
Meandering on a bit on this thread within a thread, I find it curious that there aren't really an ads in HD on CBS HD. Maybe it's just too complex to insert an HD ad instead of switching to the NTSC upconverted feed.

However, given the high cost of producing most commercials, having an HD version run off would seem to be a minimal additional expense. And I've noticed how people have commented on HD ads on HDNet and (I think) during the occasional sports event.

Perhaps someone more familiar with the operations side can let us know why HD commercials aren't being broadcast. I suspect I'd pay more attention to them--especially if they also used 5.1 Dolby creatively.

Any thoughts?

Rick
post #224 of 17107
This may be more of a network HD programming issue than a local thing but, the HD automation systems and resources may be still in development with standards and protocols changing so swiftly. Like getting the mass storage systems to talk to the production edit facilities to talk to news edit facilities (different protocols or operating systems). As more of the trend toward tapeless facilities goes on, HD commercials will be integrated into the inventory of available source material. This is a pricey investment that will take time to accumulate.
You're right, HD versions of commercials are easy enough to come by. But getting them into the schedule is a bit tougher.
post #225 of 17107
[quote]Originally posted by Paperboy2003
[b]CBS if I recall, and this has nothing to do with HD, is the number one networkd now anyway. I thought I remember the order being CBS, NBC, ABC. Sure would be great if we could pin that on the lack of hd.

Lets see if I got this right:

Share CBS 13, NBC 13, ABC 10, Fox 10

Ratings
18-49 CBS 3.8, NBC 4.5, ABC 3.8, Fox 4.3


HD ratings due to go live in late in '04.
post #226 of 17107
Hi,
I finally got jacked into the world of HDTV this week, and I was hoping someone help me with my somewhat lackluster reception. I live on the Upper West Side in Manhattan, approximately 4 miles from the Empire State Building.

I live on the top floor of a six story building, but I do NOT have a clear sight line to the ESB, as all my windows face west. I'm using a Samsung SIR-T151 Tuner and a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. I have been able to receive CBS and FOX, but it has been spotty. The antenna is extremely picky. Even though Fox and CBS are both being broadcast from the ESB, I still need to adjust the position of the antenna when I switch between the two channels. If the antenna is moved even an inch in any direction, I lose the signal. The tuner says I'm only getting 50% signal, and there is no fluctuation. It's only 50% or 0%. I know that my reception is hurt by being in a somewhat low-rise, brick building, but I figured that my very-close proximity to the ESB would counterbalance that problem. I'm not able to pull in any other channels like PBS in New Jersey.

What would you all recommend? I would like to be able to get both CBS and FOX without fiddling every time. Does anyone recommend a different antenna? Rooftop isn't really an option for me unfortunately. And what about these firmware upgrades I've been hearing about, could that help anything?
Thanks so much,
Ben
post #227 of 17107
Having to adjust between CBS and FOX is normal, not sure of the explanation, but that's the way it is, especially if the reception is spotty to begin with. I'd make sure to get the antenna as close to a window as possible (even if it's not facing in the perfect direction). If a window is too far, get a decent pre-amp and run a longer cable. This has greatly helped me in the past. Pain to run a long coax across the room to the window, but it worked.
post #228 of 17107
That sounds very similar to what I have to do, north-facing, only 9 blocks from the ESB, Ben. Also use a SS into my set's built-in tuner. But I can rarely tune in Fox; CBS is erratic. It's all due to NYC's horrendus multipath, although antennas obviously should be pointed at transmitters. Getting TW or RCN cable is the best fix, assuming you can't put up DBS dishes. Another alternative might be using a building's master antenna system, assuming it delivers UHF and VHF (believe WPIX-DT is still on VHF, but I can't pick it up either.) WNET-DT broadcasts a weak signal toward Newark from a site west of the ESB. Enter your location at antennaweb.org for nearby station frequencies; you might pick up regional stations from N.J. -- John
post #229 of 17107
If you want a PBS station, try WLIW-DT on 22 from LI. I can pick it up from 30 miles west of the city, you might have some luck with that. Just aim your multidirectional antenna east. They have two subchannels, 21-1 is HD.
post #230 of 17107
You guys should probably try a decent omnidirectional antenna due to all the multipath problems, instead of the Silver Sensor, which is directional, IIRC. I'd try the RatShack double-bowtie w/ a preamp for the UHF signals. If it doesn't work, you can always return it.

_Man_
post #231 of 17107
That's exactly what I use, a good recommendation.
post #232 of 17107
Quote:


Originally posted by MVideo
I have to agree with you, cpto. HD viewers, one would think, is a pretty interesting demographic. The networks havn't had the opportunity to have such a captive audience in decades, and they're blowing it.

I agree 100%. It's hard to believe some of the stuff I'm watching now. Maybe it's good we don't have NBC because I might even tune in to "Whoopi". Without HD I would rather stick needles in my eyes than watch that.
post #233 of 17107
*********************Pure Speculation and Fantasy***************
Would anyone with really good contacts at WABC care to confirm or deny a rumor as to WABC-DT heading over to Conte Nast in the next few months?
post #234 of 17107
It wouldn't be a bad idea since the new Conde Nast Bldg is quite tall. I don't know if they have an antennae on their roof or if it's built for antennae, but I don't think it's just simple enough to sign a lease and build an antenna; but I sure wish it were true and possible to do quickly.

George...any input? Is it simple enough as signing a lease and building an antenna?

Doug
post #235 of 17107
Quote:
Originally posted by Paperboy2003
It wouldn't be a bad idea since the new Conde Nast Bldg is quite tall. I don't know if they have an antennae on their roof or if it's built for antennae, but I don't think it's just simple enough to sign a lease and build an antenna; but I sure wish it were true and possible to do quickly.

Doug

The Conde-Nast building has always had a broadcast antenna. The original antenna served primarily as a backup facility for radio stations. A new 358-tall antenna is now under construction, with completion due later this month. Its top will be at about the same elevation as the bottom of the ESB antenna mast.
post #236 of 17107
Of course it is possible. With all that is happening at EBS I'm not surprised.
Dielectric is providing the antennas for the Durst Organization at 4 Times Square. The contract provides for up to 5 master antenna systems over the life of the agreement. The agreement also extends to Dielectric's patented EHTline and digiTLine transmission lines. The first deliveries, scheduled for completion this month will be comprised of three master panel antennas capable of accommodating NTSC and DTV broadcasts from channels 7 through 61.
Another Maine antenna maker, Shively Labs, made the FM antenna and combiner for 9 FM stations that already call it home. (If you catch me for drinks one night I'll tell you stories of Shively's 21 element slant bay linear dipole antenna with three feet of black ice on Sugarloaf Mountain in Maine when I was CE for WTOS up there).
Durst is waiting with open arms for stations to stop by.
Let the EBS group eat that combiner......
GT
post #237 of 17107
What kind of range would a DTV station have from that building given the height? Let us know if you hear any rumors. To get ABC or NBC back within the next month or so would be really nice.
post #238 of 17107
Quote:
Originally posted by trekkerj
What kind of range would a DTV station have from that building given the height? Let us know if you hear any rumors. To get ABC or NBC back within the next month or so would be really nice.

or a dream.
post #239 of 17107
I would bet that it is WNBC who didn't come up with the money for the combiner. Don't expect to seem them back on the air for quite a bit.
post #240 of 17107
At least for now, http://www.abc45online.com/ still maintains that ABC-DT expects to begin digital transmission in early November (a month away).

Isn't there somebody we can contact at WABC to ask them? Clearly if the Empire combiner deal is dead until at least March, that WABC either has a backup plan to get on the air next month, or does not update a site that we monitor with great regularity.

Thoughts?

MC
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