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New York, NY - OTA - Page 182

post #5431 of 17109
Picky picky picky. All right, WNET-DT is only using enough power to reach Newark. It does go out in all directions from the ESB. It probably goes past Newark, but it does not reach me. As you intimated, they will increase power only when forced to do so. Multipath (ghosts) eat up a lot of threshold margin, so receiving them in NYC is not always assured with low power. I've used one of the "new" Radio Shack DTV tuners in Manhattan, and it gets most of the NY stations, even with the antenna pointed away from the ESB, but not 13/61. Not enough power to overcome multipath, I assume. It also seems like 13 may be moving back to channel 13 after the transition. And then there's the Freedom Tower.

WNET was loaned an additional frequency to transmit on during the transition. They will have to give one back. Unfortunately, their loaner channel ended up outside the "core" and couldn't be used (not that they would choose to stay on 61 if they could avoid it.) WCBS had a good chance that both of their channels would be outside the core, and had to build an omnidirectional, multichannel antenna to cover any eventuality. Time will tell where they end up, but I'd bet against them staying on channel 2.

It looks like I will still have to use a directional V/U antenna if I want to get HDTV OTA.
post #5432 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hphase View Post

WNET-DT is only broadcasting with enough power to cover Newark, thier city of license. That's all they have to do. (I'm sure they will accept donations and memberships from areas outside Newark, though!)

Newark is about 11 miles from the Empire State Building. Here in NE Queens we are almost exactly the same distance away, exept in almost exactly the opposite direction. The signal here is quite marginal even with a CM 3022, and if I understand the set-up it must be marginal also in Newark. So they cannot be serving their "required" service area very well at the current level of power.

Am I missing something here? Anyone here in Newark?

All other NYC stations come in very strong as does the NJ PBS station at 51 remapped to 50. That station is about 24 miles away.

Mel
post #5433 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

I'm using the Channel Master 4228, the eight-bay one, mounted to my chimney with both an amp and pre-amp. While I'm in a generally high elevation area, my own house is one of the lower ones on the street and I think the Blue Mountain hills are a factor.

forgive me if this is stupid and you already know i'm wrong- but perhaps you are overpowering the signal with 2 amps?

I'm at around 50 miles from ESB and just need the pre-amp. I'm about 40 miles from philly and can get by for all those without any amp at all with my 4228 in the attic. Since you are presumably closer maybe you need to use less amp. (Of course the hills there might be getting in your way...)
post #5434 of 17109
Does anyone know if or when we'll actually see the NYC channel 13 program schedule in 16:9, full-screen HD? The PBS national feed we're getting instead leaves a lot to be desired, IMHO.

I've e-mailed WNET support several times, and still haven't received a reply, in spite of the fact that I'm a contributing member!

/steve
post #5435 of 17109
I live hardly a stone's throw from the ESB, alright maybe half a mile away in the FDR direction and I can't get any channel except CBS-DT when my indoor antenna is in a specific position. I tried picking up analog signals and I got pretty much every terrestial station on analog but I can't get anything on digital. I got a Channel Master pre-amp and it does nothing to help my digital reception here. Does anyone think I need an attenuator more than I need an amp?

I am using the directional antenna that came with my ATI-HDTV wonder and the HDTV-Wonder card. Is this just a bad card for getting reception?
post #5436 of 17109
I live in the East 60s near 2nd Avenue. I'm on the 22nd floor of a high rise with living room windows facing west.

You mention that you can only get WCBS-DT when your antenna is in a specific position.

Well, digital UHF will drive you crazy in Manhattan - you have to walk your antenna around the room and try, if possible, to find one location that works for many stations. You are dealing with multipath reception - not direct signals from the ESB.

I use a Silver Sensor, very directional, and I'm very pleased with it. You may want to try one.

Gary
post #5437 of 17109
Just curious if anyone else had intermittent pixelation/breakups during the UT-UA game yesterday afternoon? I watched it on one TV and DVR'd it on another...with BOTH being hooked up to an OTA antenna...and BOTH had breakups at the same time. It was raining yesterday...and it was a bit breezy...so I'm not sure if it was my setup or the weather....or the transmission itself.

I didn't feel like tuning to D*'s feed of WCBS-DT so I couldn't tell if that had issues as well. And I haven't posted a thread or looked for one over on the HD programming forum yet.

Thanks!
post #5438 of 17109
sxr, you may be OVER driving your receiver. If you're getting analog signals without ghosts then you aren't suffering from multi path. If you're using a preamp you may want to take it out and see if that clears things up. If it does but you're still missing channels you may need an attenuator to cut down on the signal.
post #5439 of 17109
Was futzing around with my rotor tonight on one of my HD receivers/antennas and was actually able to pick up WNET-DT (13-1) this evening after 11 pm (Tornado program).

Signal strength was up near 70-80% on my D* receiver, but I will say with all the rain lately I've been having problems with steady reception on normally stable channels (i.e "CSI-MIAMI" last night) as well as other CBS shows over the last few weeks at times with all the rain/wind.

Haven't tried my other OTA setup to see if I can pick up 13-1 on that one yet.
post #5440 of 17109
Croton on Hudson, NY...

Must admit I was a little sceptical at first, but I'm now able to pull all the locals in HD from a DB4 in my attic. This was recommended to me as its the highest gain solution, and combined with a channel master 7777 gave me full strengtha across all the local stations with no dropouts. The RCA antenna I originally purchased from Home Depot just didn't cut it. I would highly recommend the DB4.
post #5441 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITGuy72 View Post

Croton on Hudson, NY...

Must admit I was a little sceptical at first, but I'm now able to pull all the locals in HD from a DB4 in my attic. This was recommended to me as its the highest gain solution, and combined with a channel master 7777 gave me full strengtha across all the local stations with no dropouts. The RCA antenna I originally purchased from Home Depot just didn't cut it. I would highly recommend the DB4.

What is the DB4? As you can see in my ID, I live right near you and all I can get with a roof-mounted CM 4228 and same amp'/pre-amp are 2-1, 5-1 and 7-1 -- and, lately, reception has been very spotty.
post #5442 of 17109
The DB4 was recommended to me by solid signal. It's a new product by Terrestrial Digital, has 2 bays and the bowties. Took a a little monkeying around to get it at the right angle and orientation in the attic but once positioned all the locals are locked in 90+% (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, WB, UPN) and PBS hovers around 30-50% but thats no biggie.
post #5443 of 17109
Manufacturer's website
http://www.antennasdirect.com/
post #5444 of 17109
Has anyone been experiencing any problems with CBS lately. Just for the past few days it has been jumping around all over the place.
post #5445 of 17109
Odd. Here in Croton, NY, I have 70-90 % for all the channels, save for NJN, which comes in 65%. Otherwise, I've eliminated all analog channels save for 13 and 25. I'm already fully digital.

Of Course, like any good radio amateur, I know any receiver is secondary to the antenna, so much of the credit goes to a Radio Shack Fringe antenna on the roof, and pointed down river toward NYC. I'm 42 miles north, but don't need a rotor or preamp-the antenna's big but so what ? I feed three sets, and the other two, normal NTSC 480i sets, get as perfect a picture as you can get at that resolution. I cannot watch most cable (CATV) feeds any more, as they are horrible.

As much metal, as high up, as you can get it, is a basic rule. If you have an apartment, then things are a lot tougher......but if you have a private home, then it's sorta silly to spend 4k on a TV, and complain about $250 worth of antenna, mounts and coax cable.

I can trip a ham radio repeater on the ESB with 10 watts from here, so I clearly have a line of sight from my position on the ridge.

13.1 etc were the last to arrive, but they are also rock solid. Only really bad weather will cause drop outs.

After having real HDTV in the house for a year or so now, we call regular TV Blur-o- Vision.
post #5446 of 17109
Hello everyone....I live in Staten Island and decided to do a scan for any new ch's and I came up with CBS from Philly! First time ever towards that I came up with that ch. I don't have my Ant pointing towards Philly , it points towards the ESB. I was suprised ....anyone else grabbing CBS from Philly in the Staten Island area....or from New Jersey? As I write this I have lost the sig for CBS in Philly...but it would be really cool if I could get the ch on a reg basis to pull in some more football in HD.
post #5447 of 17109
I'm in Jamaica,Queens,and have the Accurian hooked up to an analog set.Initially I used an old Recoton 575,I was able to receive 4.1,4.2,7.1,7.2 fairly strongly,with a moderate amount of glitches,and 9.1(UPN) and 9.2(WNYW) less strongly,but still watchable.2.1 comes in sporadically,sometime a few minutes goes by without glitches,but the inevitable picture freezes always occurs.I am unable to tune in WB11 or any PBS stations. I then hooked up the new RCA ANT 525,a 45db amplified antenna that's showing up at Best Buy and Sears,reception was much improved,less glitches, and I can get 41.1(Univision) sporadically.The Accurian scanned and stored the NJN 58 stations,but I am unable to see any picture,except for a few still frames ocassionally.Still can't lock onto WB11 or PBS.
Yesterday I picked up the RS 15 1880,after all the rave reviews,I was expecting incredible reception,I was unable to lock on to a station for any length of time,quite frankly it's a POS.It also seemed to degrade the picture quality,images looked somewhat "hazy".
post #5448 of 17109
One NJ NPR station 5 of them...perhaps they could put some music formats we can't get on FM on them.. country-standards-oldies... whatever

If every broadcaster put up 5 audio only channels we would have a whole new digital music service.

I got the new Sony A10 and it has a very sensitive over the air receiver.
post #5449 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw390 View Post

Does anybody else have a problem getting the front channels on Cold Case? I just get the ancillary music no speaking parts

Sounds ok to me...channel 11 digital has a strange audio mix...way to much in the back speakers
post #5450 of 17109
I've read some posts about multipath issues causing OTA signals to jump around. I live near NYC and was wondering whether multipath problems could affect only one source, but not others, even when they are all coming from the same location. ABC, CBS and NBC all come from the combiner located at the Empire State Building. ABC and NBC come in great and are "locked" in, however, CBS jumps around all over the place. Is it likely that this is a multipath issue and if so, why doesn't it affect the other local stations? If not, is it likely that it's just the source? Any other thougths?
post #5451 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by k2koq View Post

Sounds ok to me...channel 11 digital has a strange audio mix...way to much in the back speakers


The problem got corrected by the middle of the program. It was definitely the HD "guys" or whatever because the local commercials came in ok
post #5452 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

I've read some posts about multipath issues causing OTA signals to jump around. I live near NYC and was wondering whether multipath problems could affect only one source, but not others, even when they are all coming from the same location. ABC, CBS and NBC all come from the combiner located at the Empire State Building. ABC and NBC come in great and are "locked" in, however, CBS jumps around all over the place. Is it likely that this is a multipath issue and if so, why doesn't it affect the other local stations? If not, is it likely that it's just the source? Any other thougths?

Yes, multipath distortion can disturb different signals from the same point source to different degrees. One reason is different channels have different wavelengths and their reflections may recombine in different ways. Another is power level which may affect the situation (more could be worse OR more could be better) The antenna may affect the equation also. Having said all this to then say this is your problem would not be an easy call. If the antenna can be moved or rotated you may want to try that and see what happens. Try an attenuator also. Check all your connections to be sure they are good. CBS is a high channel compared to the others and may be affected to a higher degree by a poor connection.
post #5453 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyv07 View Post

Hello everyone....I live in Staten Island and decided to do a scan for any new ch's and I came up with CBS from Philly! First time ever towards that I came up with that ch. I don't have my Ant pointing towards Philly , it points towards the ESB. I was suprised ....anyone else grabbing CBS from Philly in the Staten Island area....or from New Jersey? As I write this I have lost the sig for CBS in Philly...but it would be really cool if I could get the ch on a reg basis to pull in some more football in HD.

Philly comes in very often here in Croton. I have had nights where I got 3, 6, and 8 from philly. OK, 6 and 8 are rare, but 3 is a very common sight. I've even had it come in better than 2 from NYC on occasion.

At these frequencies, tropospheric bending is the means of long distance propagation, usually when weather fronts come through. The higher the frequency the less likely the station to "bend" and follow the earth, so while I've seen channel 3 from philly many times, I think I've only seen channel 10 once or twice.

At UHF, this is much less likely, so any DX on digital is probably moreso a good antenna with a line of sight. Still, not impossible.......
post #5454 of 17109
News ran long due to election coverage and I guess WNBC still can't record and playback network HD programming so no HD for either show?
post #5455 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

I've read some posts about multipath issues causing OTA signals to jump around. I live near NYC and was wondering whether multipath problems could affect only one source, but not others, even when they are all coming from the same location. ABC, CBS and NBC all come from the combiner located at the Empire State Building. ABC and NBC come in great and are "locked" in, however, CBS jumps around all over the place. Is it likely that this is a multipath issue and if so, why doesn't it affect the other local stations? If not, is it likely that it's just the source? Any other thougths?

Yes frequency plays a part in multipath problems. I also had a problem with CBS. I get all ESB stations at 100%. CBS however, would jump all around whenever it was damp or raining. After much experimentation I found that the SS-1000 Square Shooter antenna solved the problem for my location. It is circurally polarized and less susceptible to multipath. If possible try moving the antenna to a different part of the roof. Experimentation is key to solving problems like yours. Good Luck!
post #5456 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by icemannyr View Post

News ran long due to election coverage and I guess WNBC still can't record and playback network HD programming so no HD for either show?

Both late shows are watered down and unfunny.
post #5457 of 17109
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/ TERK HTDVi ANTENNA:

This thing is no better in receiving HD than a pair of broken dipole antennas that came with a 20 yr old TV. Granted I get better analog reception but that's only b/c the Terk's dipoles are much longer than my 20yr olds. I attached the Terk to a splitter so that i can get both analog and HD. The Terk is pointed west (that would be my living room wall) and the reception is ok, not great (stutters every 5 mins. or so). You guys think a silver sensor would be better? or a cheap $10 RCA antenna from Target??? I'll be returning this $40 piece of junk to Circuit City.

It's weird that i can't have both ABC and NBC optimized at the same time. I'd have to turn the Terk 180 degrees to watch either channel.

I live in an apt bldg in Bayside with no windows facing west or south, only north. But the bldg itself has a clear shot of manhattan. I am no longer receiving unencrypted TWC. Not even encrypted. Don't know why. cable cut in bldg??? oh well...good while it lasted...
post #5458 of 17109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabt View Post

It's weird that i can't have both ABC and NBC optimized at the same time. I'd have to turn the Terk 180 degrees to watch either channel.

with the RCA 525,basically the same orientation works for NBC and ABC,CBS requires a slight shift in position.UPN and FOX seem to be on the same orientation,If I tune in one,I know I'll get the other.
post #5459 of 17109
Hi everybody

I just like to say the DB2 is a great, I brought it around 2 weeks ago and the reception is awesome.

I live in a 2 story house with a big tree in the back, I just put it out the first floor window facing manhattan (live in Brooklyn) and the reception is awesome.

Highly recommended antenna for a great price too.

Monday night football was awesome.
post #5460 of 17109
Awesome! Free digital TV... can't beat it.
-Phil
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