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How are RCA F38310 owners doing? - Page 5

post #121 of 1199
I havent done any reading about this DVB318. What is so great about it and how does it compare with the other units such as the momitsu or others that do this up convert thing?
post #122 of 1199
There is a huge thread on this DVD player. It is currently 156 pages and growing! Check it out at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3&pagenumber=1

Or you can check out the FAQ thread at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=400480

it appears to be a good DVD player for the F38310. The only F38310 person to date that is using one is UncD2000 that has made several posts about the 318 on this thread.
post #123 of 1199
I've never had any problem in the years I have owned the F38310.
post #124 of 1199
After several months of debating and considering the WAF, I upgraded my digital cable box to a HDTV / DVR cable box. The new cable box hooks ups through the component video inputs so I am using my Onkyo NR900 receiver to do the component video switching between the HDTV cable and DVD player.

After watching for several days, IMHO, the PQ on the HDTV on the component video and the HDTV on OTA from antenna A looks identical. I know that there is some edge compression with a 1080i signal on the component video inputs from the ISF calibration done on my unit a couple of months ago, but I have not been able to see it. HDTV on the component video inputs simply looks great!

Now to the problem! The F38310 does not synch up properly when switching the signal input on the component video inputs from 1080i-to-480p-to-1080i. The F38310 had no problems switching from 1080i(HDTV channel on cable) to 480p(DVD player). The F38310 would go blank for a split second, you could hear the click as the tv re-synched, and then the 480p video signal appeared correctly. When switching from 480p(DVD player) to 1080i(HDTV channel on cable), the F38310 video signal was out of synch with mulitcolored swiggly lines. The F38310 would then go blank of a split second, you could hear the click as the tv tryed to re-snch but the video signal would stay the same. IF you left the F38310 alone, after 2 to 3 minutes the video would go blank, click as it re-synch and the video would return correctly. OR if after you switched back to 1080i(HDTV channel on cable) you immediately changed the cable channel to a SD channel, the F38310 would properly re-synch. Then you could change the channel back to a HDTV channel with no problems. Switching from 480i(SD channel on cable) to 480p(DVD player) back to 480i(SD channel on cable) caused no synching problems at all.

I first thought that it may be a problem with the receiver since it was doing the actual component video input switching. I talked with Onkyo/ Integra customer support. They told me that the NR900 receiver does not do any processing of the component video inputs, it just switches the inputs and passed the signal through. They said that the problem had to be with the F38310 itself. They had seen these same synching problems with the plazma tvs that Integra built. They said that some HDTV's have an auto-synch button. You could use that to correct the synch problem, but the F38310 does not have this as a button or menu option that I am aware of.

Recap;

480i-to-480p-to-480i no problems
1080i-to-480p no problems
480p-to-1080i will not synch

DrJoe or Ratman, do you guys have any suggestions. With these upscaling DVD players coming to the market and HDTV DVD players coming someday, this 1080i re-synching might become an issue.
post #125 of 1199
I had similar problems switching between the component input 480p and ATSC on the antenna...

Check out:

Old Home Theaterspot thread

Second Home Theaterspot thread

Basically, I had problems when switching from 480p or 1080i on the component input to an ATSC channel on the antenna. The video inputs locked.

I never had problems switching between 1080i (HD cable), 480p (DVD) and 480i (DVD, DVD2). I used (use) a manual switch, JVC JX-S111 Component Video Switch. I am no longer using HD cable, and don't have an antenna up for OTA. (And I don't have a functional set at this time.)

As you say, the screen goes squiggly and then resynchs.

Do you have any other switch you can try, to make sure there isn't something in the receiver? If you have an old composite video switch, (left/right audio + video), try it. Maybe it is the cables?

If worst comes to worst, you can call RCA, and ask the to diagnose the problem for you over the phone.

Joe
post #126 of 1199
I doubt it is the receiver. I get the same multicolored lines with my Yamaha receiver switching between two 1080i sources (Zenith DVB318 & Sony SAT-HD300), or connecting them manually to component. There is no "click," but in a second or two the F38310 gets things in synch. At one point a couple of years ago, I had the same receiver switching 480i and a 480P DVD players, and I always got instant synch and no multicolored lines.

I'm not a fan of extended warranties, but I just forked over $325 to CC for another 3 years in consideration of all the problems these sets seem to develop. The F38310 is ideal for my personal use at this point, but if it becomes unrepairable in the next 3 years, it will be nice to have some leverage at CC toward getting an acceptable replacement.
post #127 of 1199
I get the "sync problem" as well, but only for a few seconds, then every thing is fine. I have the HD Tivo which can change its output from 480i to 1080i. I do this often, because there is no composite output when set to 1080i and I distribute this signal to several other TV's in the front of my house. For normal viewing (SD) I output 480i to all sets. For serious TV watching, I switch to 1080i, but then the other SD sets go black. Every time I switch to 1080i, I get the sync problem, but not when going back to 480i. I get the sync problem when switching to DVD at 1080i as well. I don't really see it as a problem, because it only lasts a few seconds. I would get concerned, however, if it lasted any longer.
post #128 of 1199
DrJoe
I tryed to duplicate the problem you were having switching between inputs on the F38310 from 480i to 1080i on OTA antenna B to 480p from component video. I did not have any problems with the unit locking up or not able to re-snyc. The unit worked just fine.

I do not have any other way to manually switch the component video inputs other than the receiver. As UncD2000 stated, I doubt if the receiver it causing the problem. I will try to find a cheap manual switch on Saturday as you suggested. This would verify if the receiver was the problem or not.

I do not believe the cables are a problem either as they are new. My ISF tech just happened to be free the same day I got the HDTV/DVR cable box and he came out and custom made me new component video cables with Beldon 1694A cable and Canare RCA plugs.

I am glad to see that tommylotto has not had any problems switching from 1080i to 1080i. I was concerned that this may be a problem, but thinking about it, the F38310 shouldn't have a problem at all as the signal is still the same. Thanks tommylotto

DrJoe, have you got an update on getting your F38310 repaired?
post #129 of 1199
I was wondering the same DrJoe...any luck? By the way, what is the Part number of the part you cannot find? Maybe it wouldn't hurt to place a call down the street to my RCA repair center. Ya never know what they might have sitting around. Let me know what you need and I will place a call. Maybe others here could do the same if they have some competent repair shops around them that have dealt with this set. Just a thought...Jeff
post #130 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by oppie
I've never had any problem in the years I have owned the F38310.

Same here almost 2 1/2 years and still going strong.
post #131 of 1199
Okay. I have been playing with the service menu adjustments for a while now. They are NOT independent for each input. I believe there is a different set of settings for each resolution -- 1080i, 480i and 480p. My component input is connected to a Zektor component switch, which is connected to HD Tivo, Momitsu and Play Station. I have my laptop/music server connected via S-video. The laptop at 480i has intentional underscan leave a black border. I was afraid of burn in, so I adjusted it to have the desktop match the screen. The changes I made for S-Video 480i were also made on the component input when using 480i. However, the component input has separate setting for 480i and 1080i. I assume it also has separate settings for 480p.

Once I figured this out, I set both 480i and 1080i to the minimum overscan. I then switched back and forth from 480i to 1080i on the HD Tivo. I can confirm that there is less picture (more inherent overscan) with 1080i. I can also confirm that there is still a slight barrel roll effect on 1080i when displayed with minimum overscan, though not as bad as 480i.
post #132 of 1199
Jeff,

Bob (of Bob Latulippe Electronics) thinks he has identified the problem as the A/V Input board. It is also called the AA/V In Board and the A/V In/Out board (different names in different places in the service manual). He is checking to see if this board is available from RCA (I need to call and find out if he was able to get it). It is a $60 part, #248019. This is the board that the video inputs are connected to on the rear of the set.

I have a line on an "unrepaireable" set for parts -- but the contact there has not called me back to let me know if this board is salvagable.

Earlier in the process, Bob thought it was the "kine driver board" or "kine socket board assembly" (pronounced "kin-ee"); again, different names in different sections of the service manual. This is the board that is unavailable from RCA. It clips directly onto the tube stem and us a $200 part. He thought that a clamping circuit that exists to protect the CRT was blown. However, he was able to "jumper" this output, and the set still is shutting down. Subsequently, he traced it to an IC soldered onto the A/V Input board.

Bob says the picture looks excellent -- but that the set immediately shuts down after turning on.

take care,

Joe
post #133 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by tommylotto
Okay. I have been playing with the service menu adjustments for a while now. They are NOT independent for each input. I believe there is a different set of settings for each resolution -- 1080i, 480i and 480p. My component input is connected to a Zektor component switch, which is connected to HD Tivo, Momitsu and Play Station. I have my laptop/music server connected via S-video. The laptop at 480i has intentional underscan leave a black border. I was afraid of burn in, so I adjusted it to have the desktop match the screen. The changes I made for S-Video 480i were also made on the component input when using 480i. However, the component input has separate setting for 480i and 1080i. I assume it also has separate settings for 480p.

Once I figured this out, I set both 480i and 1080i to the minimum overscan. I then switched back and forth from 480i to 1080i on the HD Tivo. I can confirm that there is less picture (more inherent overscan) with 1080i. I can also confirm that there is still a slight barrel roll effect on 1080i when displayed with minimum overscan, though not as bad as 480i.

Tommy,

I haven't played with the service menus very much, and it hasn't been clear to me how you set each of the modes. The service manual glosses over this procedure. Can you describe in a step by step manner what you did to adjust each scan rate (video mode)? Do you input a scan rate on the service menu, then make adjustments, then switch to the next? Or does the set autodetect the present video source scan rate, and adjust it? (i.e. Do you tell it which scan rate you want to adjust, or does it default to adjust the existing scan rate present on the video input?)

I think some of the confusion that is existing over the service menu adjustments (and hence barrel roll) has to do with the fact that the picture adjustments (brightness, sharpness, color, black level, etc.) are independent for each video input source (Video 1, 2, 3, Front, Ant A/B, Sat, Component). I think people are assuming that the service menu works the same way.

It seems, though, that the service menu adjustments are NOT tied to the input source at all, but to the scan rate (480i, 480p, 1080i) and are interdependent for the three scan rates. People are mixing these two adjustments up (or are assuming that service menu adjustments act the same as picture adjustments).

I think, once we are all satisfied that we understand what is going on, I'll need to make an update to the FAQ on this subject.

Ciao,

Joe
post #134 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by DrJoe
Tommy,

I haven't played with the service menus very much, and it hasn't been clear to me how you set each of the modes. The service manual glosses over this procedure. Can you describe in a step by step manner what you did to adjust each scan rate (video mode)? Do you input a scan rate on the service menu, then make adjustments, then switch to the next? Or does the set autodetect the present video source scan rate, and adjust it? (i.e. Do you tell it which scan rate you want to adjust, or does it default to adjust the existing scan rate present on the video input?)

The changes you make automatically adjust the scan rate that you are in when you enter the service menu.

I would enter the service menu while in the component input at 1080i and the various parameters would have one set of values. Then I would re-enter the service menu -- still on the component input, but with 480i, and there was a complete different set of values. I adjusted the numbers for 1080i (while feeding the component input 1080i), then I would re-enter the service menu while feeding the same input 480i to adjust the numbers for 480i. When I switched to S-Video 2, the changes that I had made to 480i on the component input had obviously been made on S-video 2 as well.

Your comments are correct, picture adjustments are input dependent whereas service menu adjustments are scan rate dependent.
post #135 of 1199
Tommy,

After you adjusted the parameters for 480i, were the parameters for 1080i changed? i.e. was there any cross-talk? As I said earlier, the service manual says that adjusting the service menu parameters for one mode "interacts and affects" the other modes.

thanks,

Joe
post #136 of 1199
No. Changing the parameters on 1080i did not change 480i and vice versa -- as far as I can tell. There might be a slight interaction, but I did not notice any. When they said interacts and affects other modes they might be referring to how changing 480i on component affects 480i on S-video. This creates a problem for me. I watch my HD Tivo in 480i through component when watching SD programs so that the signal can be retransmitted to my other SD TVs in the front of my house. My laptop music server outputs 480i which is severely under scanned leaving a black border. Adjusting 480i for one, messes up the other dramatically.

Also, do you ever have trouble getting into the service menu? It takes me forever to get in. I press all three buttons simultaneously, but more often than not I turn the set off, switch its out put, or go into the menu. I have to start over and over again, until I finally get into the menu while in the right mode.
post #137 of 1199
Update on my repair:

It seems the part I need is available through Sears (but not RCA!).

I'm ordering it this afternoon, ahould have it on the 29th.


Joe
post #138 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by tommylotto
Also, do you ever have trouble getting into the service menu? It takes me forever to get in. I press all three buttons simultaneously, but more often than not I turn the set off, switch its out put, or go into the menu. I have to start over and over again, until I finally get into the menu while in the right mode.

Don't use the power button... only press the other two simutaneously.
post #139 of 1199
It appears that you guys have figured out a great deal more aout this TV than the last time I checked here. Perhaps you can help me.

What does it take to adjust/reduce the vertical overscan when in zoom mode for 480i input via S-Video? Can it be done via the service menu? Does anyone have a simple walk-through or how-to?

Mine, as did all F38310's, has this set to stretch too much vertically.
post #140 of 1199
That's the way full mode works. You lose some of the top and bottom.
If you adjust while in this mode, you will mess up the 'normal' setting.

I'd suggest that if the 'normal' mode (4:3) is acceptible, don't make adjustments while set to the 'fill/full' mode.
post #141 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by DrJoe
Update on my repair:

It seems the part I need is available through Sears (but not RCA!).

I'm ordering it this afternoon, ahould have it on the 29th.


Joe

I spoke too soon...

He gave me the wrong part number.

The problem is a surface mount IC on the I/O board. This is the PCB that the s-video jacks are connected to on the back of the set. RCA does not sell it as a part.

The challenge now is to find a replacement board from a dead set (which is hopefully functional), or to solder a new IC to it. This is apparently a challenge because it is a multilayer PCB.

Joe
post #142 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by Ratman
That's the way full mode works. You lose some of the top and bottom.

I realize that. My problem is that I lose too much. I *should* lose as much on top and bottom as the letterbox bars occupy, but instead I lose significantly more than that. I was under the impression that this is correctable as part of an ISF calibration, without screwing up the picture in normal or fill mode.

My question is: is this adjustable via the service menu, or do you have to open up the set and/or be an ISF-certified pro to do this?
Quote:


If you adjust while in this mode, you will mess up the 'normal' setting.
I'd suggest that if the 'normal' mode (4:3) is acceptible, don't make adjustments while set to the 'fill/full' mode.

Can anyone else verify this?
post #143 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by rttrek
I realize that. My problem is that I lose too much. I *should* lose as much on top and bottom as the letterbox bars occupy, but instead I lose significantly more than that. I was under the impression that this is correctable as part of an ISF calibration, without screwing up the picture in normal or fill mode.

My question is: is this adjustable via the service menu, or do you have to open up the set and/or be an ISF-certified pro to do this?

Can anyone else verify this?

I'm not sure that anyone can fix it. I had my set ISF calibrated, by a tech with access to a chippercheck, and I still think the zoom mode for the F38310 sucks. If your 480i is for DVD, then I'd advise you to get a player that can zoom letterboxed video for you. If it is for something else, I don't have any suggestions.

Joe
post #144 of 1199
All I can suggest is that you connect your DVD player to the input you want to adjust.

Run Avia or VE and display the pattern for overscan.

Use the service mode in the F38310 and use the Horz/vert size/width/position to adjust to where you prefer. Be careful and write down the setting prior to changing anything.

Or... maybe the 'letterboxing' of your DVD player is not the best. (Not a bash... just a thought)
post #145 of 1199
It is *not* for DVD - I have a Panny RP91 that does everything one could wish.

My problem is with LB content from my DirecTiVo, programs that are broadcast letterboxed such as West Wing.

Ratman, will adjusting the "vert size" in full mode change it in normal and fill?

Anyone have a pointer to details on entering service mode, and on how to adjust "vert size"?
post #146 of 1199
I know that...
but to properly determine overscan settings, you need to use the Avia or VE DVD for calibration. So hooking the DVD will possibly give you the best assessment.

Your other option is 'eyeballing'.

I can't address what will happen with 'fill/full' mode adjustments. I adjusted my set all in a 'normal' mode. I rarely use the fill/full modes and am happy with what I have.

As for entering service modes and some adjustments... check out DrJoe FAQ's for F38310.
post #147 of 1199
Quote:


Originally posted by rttrek
My problem is with LB content from my DirecTiVo, programs that are broadcast letterboxed such as West Wing.

The solution to this problem is obvious: HD Tivo
post #148 of 1199
Just got one. Today! Going in another room though.

Got another on order for the F38310.
post #149 of 1199
rttrek, I have been wondering for over 3 years if there is any way to fix the vertical overstretch in Fill mode. I think it stretches about 50% compared to the correct 33%. My DVD player and SAT-HD300 can handle their part, but if I want to watch a videotape of letterboxed widescreen material, the F38310 Fill mode would be my choice if it would function properly. If anyone has had any luck correcting this defect, please post and Dr. Joe can add it to the FAQ.
post #150 of 1199
I hadn't thought about this before, but if the HD DTiVo properly handles this then I will no longer need it fixed. I won't use the SD DTiVo, and I will also disable the DTV service for the internal DTC-100. The only time it'll catch me is for SD material received OTA by the DTC-100, which I'll only use if both my DTiVo tuners are busy and I want to watch a third OTA channel, and that channel's program is letterboxed.

Well, unless I transfer something from my front room via composite, but that's very rare.
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