Toledo, OH - HDTV - Page 8

Here is what I was able to find out about the firewire connection on the DCT6412 from a good friend at Buckeye, call it the offical word:

1) The firewire output is activated.

2) Even though multiple firewire devices may conform to the IEEE 1394 standard, they may not be compatible due to how each manufacturer interprets the standard.

3) The IEEE 1394 output of the DCT6412 supports Digital Transmission Copy Protection (DTCP - also known as 5C).

4) Since the majority of our content providers require us to copy-protect our services, you would not be able to record content from the DCT6412 IEEE 1394 output unless it is connected to a device that supports DTCP/5C (unless the content is flagged as 'Copy Freely').

Just an FYI, so when the next person asks, just point them to this post. So as my prev. post goes, MY DVD-R & camcorder must not be a 5C device, thus I get no recordings.
Videditor

ALSO FOUND OUT THIS INFO:
Reply to Post 191.
Believe this was for Kent72.

The CableCARD should work with the Sony DHG-HDD500. It is supposed to work in any CableCARD-compatible device. Since the Sony DHG-HDD500 is a new product, the CRRs are not aware of this yet.
As far as being able to use it to get HD from Detroit OTA and Toledo HD via Buckeye, this should work. If this device works like the Digital Cable Ready TVs, when the CableCARD is inserted and the device is connected to cable and properly authorized, the channels displayed will match the channel line-up that we have on a digital box. Without the CableCARD, the device should search for any available digital signals, which, with an over-the-air antenna, should include Detroit HDs.

Interesting post Videoeditor.

The future of archiving HD is certainly going to be an interesting one. The best outcome would be some type of copy once flag...allowing us to archive a single HD copy...but not distribute it.

This is theoretically how it will shake out (even with the defeat of the flag in court last week). I think Moto and other DVR makers know that users want
active firewire ports and will not shut them down unless some draconian legal opinion destroys archiving forever.

Thanks for the info videditor!! Very useful information, it has also been my experience in the computer industry that "standards" are not always a full-proof way to ensuring compatibility.

As far as "copy once" I believe that the 5c copy protection allows for this flag, if I remember correctly the possible flags are:

1. Never copy
2. Copy Freely
3. Copy once (This MAY include, however, the copy to the DVR, so we may already be using the Copy once to record the program.)

::searches google to make sure he's not making an idiot out of himself::

OK after looking at this white paper:

http://www.dtcp.com/data/wp_spec.pdf

there is one more in there: "no more copies" whatever that means...

That white paper should answer any technical questions about the dtcp/5c standard.

Hmmmm would the DVR copy be one copy??? Or do you get one copy of the recorded show??

How about if you don't copy it to the dvr...just stream it out the firewire into the DVHS.

I'm telling ya...recordable optical HD is going to be jammed with copy protection protocals...no component outs...a mess.

Anyone willing to place bets when recordable Optical HD comes to Best Buy in Toledo? Players will not appear until May06....recorders....Dev 06 or Jan 07.

Looks like Toshiba is balking at the "lets all get along" stuff. Could be late 07 for affordable recordable stuff.

Just an FYI for those of us ahead of the HD game.
VidEditor

Around 2 AM, the morning of 5-18-05 there will be a firmware upgrade to all of the Buckeye DCT 6412 boxes.

Side Notes on this Firmware upgrade:

Future recordings should still be set-up.

The autotune function WILL have to be reset.

The purpose of the upgrade is to resolve the
known FOX DVR problem.

WOOHOOO! Hope it doesn't screw anything else up...

Check my box out this morning... All functions are working as normal. The upgrade seemed to not have affected my box as possibly indicated.

Great news on the firmware upgrade!! I had the fast forward problem with Sunday night's second episode of the Simpsons (the first episode worked just fine).

Is everyone else still getting the ~1 second audio dropouts? I had several of them during 24 on Monday night. I've also had it on other channels, so it's not a Fox-specific problem.

I hope this is not related to the update.
the 6412 kept recording a scheduled show until I stopped it an hour after the show was over. Last night I was watching LOST in chase mode when I noticed it was also still recording past the designated time.

Anyone else?

I will be calling buckeye when I get a chance.

Is the DCT-6200 box still available from Buckeye?

HELP!! Videoeditor HELP!!

The firmware upgrade has now DOWNREZZED the firewire output to 480i!!!!

Why oh why destroy our ability to legitimately archive for our own personal use??? I have three ipods and own every single song on them. I would never think of sharing anything I copy to DVHS.

Has Buckeye now permanently destroyed their customers ability to archive in HD??

I tired this on two JVC machines (30k and 40k) I now get a copy protection message with a down rez to 480i!!

ANyone? Videoeditor can Buckeye change this?

Thanks!

Tom

I can't be the only person who archives HD off of Buckeye? ANyone else ticked off?

I called and spoke to a supervisor today. He was very nice...but was honest about his lack of knowledge regarding DVHS decks and firewire. He wrote a detailed message and will pass it on to the techs. He says the techs will call me today.

We will see!

I got one in February for a couple weeks to try it out with a small LCD I bought.
So as of last February they had them

Also I archive, but use a DVDR and composite.

I'll look into the 480I signal. If this happened because of the firmware change, I am sure it is a fix one thing, another is affected unintentionally. Hey all this HDTV stuff is still in its early stages of growth as far as distribution goes. You guys are great, keep pushing the envelope.

I do not archive. I watch too much tv as it is. Besides I have seen HDTV , Digital Standard Def. for years (HDTV since it originally started on 1" videotape in the late 80's) and even though stuff looks good at home, in the studio it looks even better.

Videoeditor,

Thanks for the reply. Buckeye called back today..a supervisor. They are contacting Motorola to see what the problem is. Clearly the firmware upgrade changed something.

Does the non-dvr box have firewire ??

Tom

Okay...I read back a few pages and I think I know what the problem is..........The 5C copy flag is set to 1 which according to an earlier message means never copy. Buckeye has to change this to copy once or copy always.

As it is now...every single channel...even the damn low rez weather radar and SD channels get the copy protection message.

Buckeye...I hope someone from the company is reading this!

I may have spoke prematurely. Some of the channels are set to 1...others are set to 0. It doesn't matter....I get the copy protection message on channels with 5c set to 0!!!

Buckeye...something is wrong when I get a copy protection downrez message even on channels with the 5c set to 0!!

I received a nice email from a supervisor. He has forwarded my emails to a person who deals diretly with Motorola to try to get to the bottom of this.

Is there anyone here, with the buckeye dvr, who can archive to a JVC DVHS unit now?

I recorded Deadwood and Desperate housewives last night and had the strangest problem. Halfway through I turned on Deadwood, no sound, I tried fast forward and it kept on playing. I tried pause and it kept going as well. It would stop and start but nothing else, and no sound. DH worked fine.
New software problem?
STB problem?
Or should I just pull the plug for a while?

I never had sound dropouts till last week and now an entire show.

Also, when it fauled to FF or pause it did not show the old NO synbol it used to on fox.

While watching "24" on Fox last night every time they cut over to local from the network feed the audio cut out. Happened also when cutting back from local to the network. Only way to get audio back was to pause and then hit play. Very annoying. I suspect this has something to do with the DVR firmware upgrade. Apparently fixed one problem and caused another. This was happening on both DVR's that I have so I suspect other's are experiencing this too. Anyone else?
KentStater. I wonder if this is related to the audio issue you just reported.
By the way, this issue seems to be only happening on Fox HiDef cut-overs so far.
What's curious is the same issue appears with the DVR'd material. In other words when playing back the recorded show I would get the same problem with the audio on the recorded content. Not that the audio drop outs were recorded but hitting pause and play would immediately restore the audio so the audio is getting recorded but it's not playing back immediately after a cut over.
The work around for now is using the pause and play to restore the sound but oh, what a pain.

Just spoke to Buckeye and they claim they are aware of the issue and the "engineers are working on it."

Fullwave
Yes I am doing the same thing. Using the pause platy to restore audio. I know that it was that way on 24, but I think it happened while watching LOST also, but I can't confirm(I'm old).
I'll keep track.
Also I unplugged the unit (reboot) hours before 24 and it made no difference.

KS - Thanks. Just got off the phone with Buckeye and they claim the issue is known as of last night and they're working on it. We'll have to live with it until they come up with a solution, and we all know how long that can take.

ps - Just looked at your profile. Turns out that I'm a bit older than you.

Bob

Folks,

Here is the latest news on my Moto 6412 Firewire downrez problem.

Spoke at length with a person from my cable company (Buckeyecable Toledo) and she said that Motorola has been notified of the issue and that they were trying to replicate it in their labs. I told her that the problem started immediately upon the flashing of the 6412 with the update.

The 10.08 update was designed to fix an issue that some Buckeye 6412 users were having with fast forwarding the Fox channels. She said this was the only thing included in the firmware update. She was very helpful and seemed to be quite concerned...she acknowledged the right of myself to make a HD copy to DVHS for my own personal use.

I decided to do an experiment today...I picked up a Moto 6200 from the same cable company to see if that allowed me to make HD copies to my DVHS. Indeed it does!! No downrez at all!!! Perfect copies!

SO I have confirmed that the issue is indeed the 6412 firmware upgrade.

I'm hoping that Moto can get to the bottom of this. My cable person did mention that they would consider going back to the previous firmware of the 6412 if they thought that this was the desire of Buckeye customers.

They gotta leave the 6200 alone for now...at least I can archive off of this box! Right now I'm keeping the 6412 also in the hope they fix this thing.

Tom

Can anyone here tell me if NBC (24) and FOX (36) are currently broadcasting their OTA HD channels? I just received a Samsun HLR4667W and have been unable to tune these two via the built-in receiver.

Just had my wife check and we are getting both 24 and 36 HD OTA.

Have you checked the alignment of the antenna at:
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Thanks for checking... I'm pretty sure I have the antenna aligned properly, but that may be a moot point now. I was able to confirm that Buckeye has the local HD channels transmitted using unencrypted QAM, and the tuner in my Samsung DLP can process this signal. Looks like I'll be picking up a splitter and some RG6 to test this tonight...

Nate,
Are you able to hook your basic cable line to an HD reciever (or TV) and get the local broadcast HD channels? This might be a better option than renting the box from Buckeye.

Yes, that is actually what I am doing. The HD receiver in the Samsung HLR-4667W is capable of receiving OTA digital signals, as well as cable HD channels that unencrypted. If I wanted to, I could use a CableCard and get the premium HD channels as well, but I'm not really interested in them at this time. I just needed to split the signal so I could still run my SD signal through my MythTV HTPC.

On a similar note, does anyone else have any problems with the Toledo PBS HD station showing excessive pixelation? I used to use that channel to show off HD when I received it OTA, but it is hard to watch via cable.

Whoa, talk about timely, I am sitting here looking at the Sony DHG-500 HD DVR and wondering if it would use Buckeyes card.
So you are saying that I could get the basic 39.95 cable plus the 3.95/mo card and receive HD locals, right? That would be about a 24 month break even on buying a unit I could add Detroit HD from OTA and have 500gb HDD.
What about the basic basic cable?(12.15)