Toledo, OH - HDTV - Page 11

A few times a year I will pick up channel 13 as good as my local channels and sometimes channel 11 when the proper ducting occurrs in the atmosphere. One time channel 11 digital set up all four channels on my tuner. Anyway, its only for a few hours.

JJK

cool. got the motorola 6412 box hooked up and agree it is better than OTA. did you check out channel 628? we are going to get OLN HD.

Is buckeyeHD as good as OTA for local channels? The OTA picture from WGTE in 1080i is incredible. I could sit there all day and watch it. Not impressed with WTOL CBS OTA HD at all. They encode their signal to say it is 1080i but it is not. That kind of stuff really irritates me. And why is FOX only 720p? Do they plan to go to 1080i?[/quote]

Hey Guys,
My 2 cents... Fox will always be 720P, they have designed equipment to keep their HD signal in stream mode vs. a video signal for as long as possible. Quite an accomplishment. This includes signals at the local level, allowing for local insertion. CBS is 1080I and it is BAD for sports. Watch a football game and on a "hero" shot (tight shot of a player-in motion) watch the background, you'll notice it being rectangle blocks. Also watch the graphics, they go anti-alised until the signal resets & then the graphic becomes sharp again. 720 rules for motion!!! I have worked in 1080i & will always shoot 720P for fast action.
Also, there is a trap on BCS cable modem, so a second line is usually run for tv signals.
VidEditor

Guys, just heard about a new HD channel from MTV, don't get excited, it's all music-all day (sound familiar?) in HD. The no-name channel launches in January. From the posts listed, I don't think many of us are that young to be watching Rap Videos in HD. But then again I watched soccer when I first got my set, and I dislike soccer.

VidEditor

Videditor: In my area I have no problems at all with CBS and motion. The only difference that I can see is that Fox has poor background resolution compared to CBS. Your technical analysis is flawed as the 1080i will give you the proper fast action as the 720p will not. This is how I shoot High-Definition (1080i) as the 720p will be very jumpy when viewed back on a HDTV CRT and really jumpy on an LCD panel.

JJK

[quote=JJkizak]Videditor: In my area I have no problems at all with CBS and motion. The only difference that I can see is that Fox has poor background resolution compared to CBS. Your technical analysis is flawed as the 1080i will give you the proper fast action as the 720p will not. This is how I shoot High-Definition (1080i) as the 720p will be very jumpy when viewed back on a HDTV CRT and really jumpy on an LCD panel.

JJkizak,
1080i in sports is not a "area" related issue. It is a natural broadcast issue. I think you just have your numbers mixed up, as what you are saying is what I am saying, just with the wrong format. 1080i is higher resolution than 720p, but the interlace causes fast motion artifacts as I described before. Not sure what you mean about how you shoot HD? What are you shooting HD on? The Sony Zhd unit? The networks picked a resolution to transmit on for all programming, Fox, ESPN and other "sport" dominent networks chose progressive due to the motion issues. I am a freelance sports tech and have copied a statement from a trade magazine for you. This one happens to be from ESPN. I will agree with you that the CRT is a better picture, but truely, how many consumers are going to buy one vs. a LCD or Plasma? No one I know. Most HD remote trucks usually only have one crt foe QC everything else is plasma- which has more to do with weight issues & ease of set-up with Miranda's multi-picture zoning. Anyway, trust me 720P for sports. Please not another VHS vs. Beta battle...
Here's that articale:
Why Did ESPN Choose 720p versus 1080i?

ESPN chose 720p because of the "p," which stands for progressive scan technology. Progressive scan technology paints the picture on your television screen from top to bottom on a line-by-line basis.as in lines 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, etc. Interlace technology, the "i" in 1080i, paints the picture on an every-other-line basis, first painting lines 1,3,5,7,9 and then a split second later painting lines 2,4,6,8 and 10. Your eyes then assemble the painting into one image.

Progressive scan technology produces better images for the fast moving orientation of sports television. Simply put, with 104 mph fastballs in baseball and 120 mph shots on goal in hockey, the line-by-line basis of progressive scan technology better captures the inherent fast action of sports. For ESPN, progressive scan technology makes perfect sense.

We note with interest that when consumers now shop for DVD devices which produce the best pictures, the industry standard for quality is "progressive scan DVD players." We believe that says a great deal about our selection of 720p.

Anyone else having trouble picking up local channels with DirecTV? I'm sure it has something to do with the snow, but my service outages never usually last this long (6+ hours at this point).

And Lost is on in less than 3 hours!

Locals?

I use the antenna and have had no problem. I did clean the dish about an hour ago because Discovery HD was pixiling, but a broom did the trick.

I might mention I am in Bedford so I am officially in Detroit DMA, that shouldn't make a difference with OTA though.

Also I record all the LOST epps, so if you are desperate PM me.

Videditor:
I shoot 1080i with the Sony Z1. I didn't expect a whole lot of quality but was really surprised doing really fast pans and fast jerks in full auto mode at horizontal siding on my house and also fast moving vehicles. There were no artifacts or blurring frames at normal viewing speed. Even when viewed on my new Sony LCD (1366 x 768) KLV-S23A10 that I use as one of my monitors. In fact I can't tell the difference between that one and the Sony 34" HDTV viewing commercial stuff or the stuff I make. 720p really gets jerky on my other monitors so I don't even mess with it at all. I render out all my stuff to 1080i and never see any artifacts or motion problems. In my area CBS is like a rock and sharp as a tack, FOX is much better now than it was but sometimes the extreme backgrounds are fuzzed up. Locally FOX SD is extremely good and the local HD news is great until it goes off site to different locations and most of the time it picks up about 7 ghosts on the faces. PBS is excellent all around as NBC. ABC SD is an abomination but the HD is fine. The Demos of the Z1 with HD WMV's shot the same scene with each resolution setting and 1080i 60i blew everything away as far as artifacts and smooth motion. My information from the other forums was that the new 1080p would be a huge step up from 720p. But I only use the settings that work for me, even though 1080i is only 540p. The camera has settings for 720p but I never use it.

JJK

"My information from the other forums was that the new 1080p would be a huge step up from 720p."

JJ,
Don't get too excited about 1080P, there's no such thing-truely. It's fabracted "I" just adding electronic noise. AT least at this point in time. The Sony Z1 unit makes good pictures, but the real difference is when you hold it up to another true HD camera. So a show/spot containing only that cam will look fine. I have seen intercut on program tapes.

Check out the non-subject image - the CBS 1080i issue was not the main subject it is the background image that is lost/blocked out. Due to compression (transmission), as the guys in the truck say they are not seeing that on program. Really interested in local news going HD. At NAB they were all over the Sony Z1 unit, but being that highly compressed and then the hd transmission compression .... ouch, especally cutting back to studio hd. Sony's XDCAM is soon shipping an HD version for about $20,000 + lense. Hopefully more production will be done with that range of camera. It's all a joke... Reading these threads, everyone wanting the latest & greatest, yet they are going to produce stuff with a $5000 highly compressed camera? HD will take forever to catch on if the general public thinks that is the best picture out there. I also have shot on the Sony Z camera-for a documentary. It is what it is, just hope the public holds producers to higher standards. Look at what "America's Funniest Home Videos" has made acceptable to air now.
Funny thing, a report I have say that the public thinks that anything they see "widescreen" is HD! That's one reason the HD-DVD war is slow. The movie studios are reporting that with Y R-B- signals and the surround sound systems, folks are not asking for HD-DVD. If it's 16x9 it must be HD!!!!
Got to run...

Videditor:
I agree on the HD mess as it stands now. But I cannot afford a 20k camera. And to the best of my knowledge the broadcasters are using MPEG2 to transmitt their programs at 24meg to 50 meg which is the same compression as the Z1 (24 meg data stream) I can see why my broadcast picture on the crt looks the same as the Z1, although not side x side, it's really close even though the broadcast is 4.2.2 and the Z1 is 4.2.0. As long as the broadcasters are using the MPEG2 24 meg data stream all of that extra 110k camera cost is down the drain. Anyway that's my opinion.

JJK

Toledo over-the-air DTV channels, digital and analog channel numbers:
WTVG ABC 19, 13
WTOL CBS 17, 11
WUPW FOX 46, 36
WNWO NBC 49, 24
WGTE PBS 29, 30

Guys, here is a recent email from Buckeye.


"Late next month we are going to be adding a few more HD channels. Starz will offer a HD channel and a new premium channel called here! Also being added will be the NFL Network and the NHL on OLN. In the HDTV Plus pack we will be adding INHD, INHD1 and Universal HD.

BCS is working on a contract to bring ESPN2 on HD but it probably will not be until late spring."

Man, Buckeye just gets more enticing by the day for people like me who are still contemplating getting an HDTV. DirecTV just can't seem to catch up.

hmmm...

GREAT NEWS!!!

On a separate note, has anyone noticed that 636 is off the air? A call to buckeye says that Fox's HD OTA feed is down, can anybody corroborate this? Has anybody contacted Fox Toledo? It has been a couple of days now!

As far as the 1080i vs. 720P argument, that could go on for hours (and Days), however, I think we can all agree that CBS puts out CRAP. NBC is also 1080 and their football (Notre Dame), and NASCAR (Talk about high speed motion!) looks great in HD with no real noticeable artifacting (blocking during motion), not like CBS anyway. So good sports is possible with 1080i, just not with CBS. CBS and ABS are also way behind as far as Football in HD, Give us some damn college games in HD, and if FOX can broadcast 6 NFL games every week in HD so can CBS.

I'm traveling right now so can't confirm whether or not I'm seeing the same issue with Fox Toledo that you are but you might want to drop Steve Crum a note. He's their Chief Engineer and his email is sdcrum@foxtoledo.com . Haven't cooresponded with him in a few months but he was there the last time I checked and he is very responsive to emails. Good luck.

Bob

Thanks for the info, I am sure he is very busy, so I will leave him alone

They now have a little note up there saying they are experiencing technical difficulties, and will be up for prime time.
Looks like they are working on it...

Hey guys, though not offically launched, I did watch an OLN HD Hockey game last night. At this point it seems to be running similar to the NBA HD channel. I think the offical launch of the new channels is Dec. 27th -Merry Christmas!
VE

I am in the process of upgrading my exhisting Channel Master 4257 Diamond Quantum UHF antenna to help receive the Detroit HD feeds.

Located in South Toledo, it is a pull to get these stations. I would like to ask you guys a couple of questions:

1) Are you using outdoor antennas, and if so are you able to pull these in?
(Location dependent - please identify antenna and location of your tower)

2) Are you familiar with the High Gain UHF Antennas? If so, which one would you purchase?
- Channel Master 4248
- Antenna Direct 91XG

3) Who would you recommend to perform the install?

Thanks.

Yes, I do have an outdoor antenna on the roof (no tower). I'm using an Antenna Direct DB4 (4 bay) bowtie antenna. I'm located in the Fort Meigs area of Perrysburg and even with the outdoor antenna with a rotator I cannot consistently pick up the Detroit stations. In fact the only time I'm able to pick up signals from that directions is during times of tropospheric ducting.
Good luck on finding someone to install it. The guy who did mine normally only deals now with satellite dishes and said mine was the last terrestrial antenna he'd do.
Bob

Can someone tell me if Qam is encrypted or unecrypted for Buckey express plz? I play to buy the Fusion 5 HDTV tuner and want to know this.

Two days and we get Three more HD channels on Buckeye!! INHD1&2 and UHD. All included in HD tier package.

Starz is also adding an HD channel for those that already subscribe to Starz. I believe that's going to be on 327.

Hello,

I live south west of Toledo in Napoleon and am looking at the possibility of changing from Cable (Adephia) to a Dish,but I am concerned about getting local HD. The local Dish retailer tells me that it should be no problem with an antenna and amp. Does anyone here have any experience with OTA HD in this area? I can put up a roof mount antenna but it will only be in the 20-25' off the ground. Would a directional long range antenna work in this area? what would the reception be like?

Hi Steve here, the FCC says you are within the coverage map for WUPW Fox Toledo CH- 36 for HD so, the other stations should come in just as well. If you go to the following link, http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...x=TV82277.html you can see that you are within the coverage area. (provided you cannot see the attached picture) Bryan Ohio is kinda the "it's gonna be hard to get" area. I have a friend who lives in Lyons Ohio and he picks up Fox Toledo HD just fine.
'Amps" can add noise if placed close to the TV end which can hamper the ability to decode MPEG2 correctly because you "turn up the volume" on the signal you want as well as the noise of the wire feeding into the amp from the Antenna. Getting your "booster" closer to the antenna will help increase signal without bringing up the noise too.
Also, some Sat TV boxes have ATSC (Advanced Television Systems Committee) tuners built in that FAIL to operate if you cancel the subscription service to your DSS dish. I mention this because some people get a dish to get a HDTV tuner then find out that the dish company can "turn off" the HDTV receiver located inside the DSS receiver box. Use a Yagi type (see photo) antenna, stay away from the small "loop" type antennas that bolt to the top of the dish. These antennas have poor response and would only be good to you if you lived within the limits of the city of Toledo. A Yagi has several metal rods or "elements". the longer the antenna is, the more elements it will have, thus the more "gain" it will provide. The "dipole" is the heart of the Yagi antenna and is where you connect you 75 ohm line from your TV set. The short "elements" indicate the front of the antenna.
I hope this helps,
Steve

Um, they lost the "upconverter" and spent $3,000.00 to get it working again!

bummer...

Steve,

Thanks for the information, that is more than I could ask for. It sounds like I will probably be on the roof when the weather breaks Thanks for the info.

the ATSC HDTV data rate is 19.39 MBPS with PSIP, stuffing, streams ECT transmitted in 8VSB.

Steve

I see the DB4 has a gain of 13.7db, I cant help but think maybe a little more signal and you could pull in WDIV. You are on the "edge" of the WDIV service area (see WDIV photo) . I am in north Toledo so I am looking at having to "spin from " east to north all the time. I am thinking of setting up an A/B switch and eliminate the need for a rotor since those are the directions I only need.

the 91x looks like it could do what you want.. http://www.antennasdirect.com/HDTV_antennas.html

From the web page...
the 91X has:
Wideband coverage of UHF channels 14-69
High protection, anti-corrosion, gold anodized aluminum construction
Reflector grids manufactured from welded, hot dipped, zinc-plated steel with plastic coating
Low wind load
Snap-lock quick assembly
Inclinable mast clamp for horizontal or vertical installation
High performance, integral PCB balun for true signal matching
Front to back ratio: 28 dB
High gain across entire UHF band (UHF channels 14-69)
Max Gain 16.7 dB