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post #10441 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBibeau View Post

Hi ob,
Was the transmitter the older IOT type or newer Solid State modules?

Bill,

 

It was our IOT transmitter.  For the benefit of other readers, an IOT (Inductive Output Tube) transmitter uses vacuum tubes.  It is a bit misleading to refer to it as an older type compared with solid state (transistors), as both are actively sold and in-use.  IOT's are used for high power applications.  They are more efficient and can have better linearity than solid state, and watt-for-watt are considerably less expensive.  Their main drawback is the additional complexity of their liquid cooling systems and the need for high voltage (35 kilovolt) power supplies.  A solid-state transmitter has, in place of one or two tubes, a good number of modules (16 per 7 KW cabinet), so the loss of a single module does not take the transmitter off air or reduce its output power by much, compared with 50% in the case of the loss of an IOT in a dual tube transmitter, or 100%(!) in a single tube transmitter.

post #10442 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYankowitz View Post

Bill,

It was our IOT transmitter.  

Thank for the info. At my last station, our digital signal was on UHF during the transition. We used 2 IOT in parallel. Yes, the cooling was complex and working on the high voltage system was touchy. It reminded me of when I started back in the late 60's at my first AM station. The high voltage supply for those 3CX5000's was fun to work on too.

On VHF, my station was on channel 13 and it was all solid state. I got more calls in the middle of the night for UHF problems than VHF. Most of the time, the fix was often a computer re-boot. Once the final drop dead date came, the digital output transitioned back to channel 13.
post #10443 of 10632
I've tried, so far unsuccessrully, to move to OTA. ny help you folks could give me to help me get a watchable picture would be greatly appreciated .

I just got 2 antennas professionally installed by a firm that has been recommended by this forum,,One antenna is turned towards NH to pick up WBIN and NHPrine and the other is turned towards the Boston antennas. The installer swore that all that was needed was to connect the signals from the two antennae into a splicer (turned backwards) and then amplify. I'm finding that many channels are completely unwatchable; I think we're going to have to somehow return to cable in order to watch the game tonight. Channel 5, WCVB, with it's high power, is the only channel that is reliable. This morning, I was unable to watch meet the press on ch 7 and fox news sunday on 25.1. I've had problems, really, with all of the other channels, but perhaps a couple of the PBS stations are a bit better than some of the others From FCC information, I believe this has something to do with the power of the station, but I am not entirely sure about this diagnosis yet. My symptoms are:
* (least often) I can get pixellation with sound that is ok,
* I can see a talking head but have no sound,
* I get freezes.
* I get freezes with an annoying buzzing-flutter sound.
One of the above interruptions happen once per sentence and it is totally unbearable.

I live close to the Boston transmitter, TV Fool and the other online tools say that I should be able to get all of the channels (contact me and I'll give you a link) but TVFool may not be appreciating that I live in a bit of a valley and there are buildings, trees, and hills in the way.

My question is :
* How can I tell if the problem is interference between the two antennae? Or is that even a potential problem?
* How can I tell how much power that I have on each channel and whether it will ever come in? Is the only way to do this with the installer? Shouldn't the original installer have somehow ensured this?
* Is there anything I can do to improve my signal? Filtering? Amplification?


* If the problem is one of adequate reception, is there anything thatt
post #10444 of 10632
Just a quick note: I'm trying to connect each antenna individually, without the splitter (so can expect some improvement) to see if that gives me improvement. It will be a while before I draw some conclusion, though.
post #10445 of 10632
Interference between two spliced antennas? Ditch the coupler/splicer, try a simple A-B switch to test each antenna, separately.
post #10446 of 10632
Look at the "Signal Strength" indicator (which is really a "Signal Quality" indicator, showing how-much/how-little the multi-path correction equalizer is having to work), while switching between the two antennas, and with the two combined.
There will probably be very little difference in the actual strength, but the multi-path will be higher on some channels, due to addition and subtraction of the signals from the two antennas being combined.

If you (or the installer) had an ATSC Antenna Analyzer, you'd see very bad distortion on some channels, where the signals are combined poorly.
post #10447 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post

I've tried, so far unsuccessrully, to move to OTA. ny help you folks could give me to help me get a watchable picture would be greatly appreciated .

I just got 2 antennas professionally installed by a firm that has been recommended by this forum,,One antenna is turned towards NH to pick up WBIN and NHPrine and the other is turned towards the Boston antennas. The installer swore that all that was needed was to connect the signals from the two antennae into a splicer (turned backwards) and then amplify. I'm finding that many channels are completely unwatchable; I think we're going to have to somehow return to cable in order to watch the game tonight. Channel 5, WCVB, with it's high power, is the only channel that is reliable. This morning, I was unable to watch meet the press on ch 7 and fox news sunday on 25.1. I've had problems, really, with all of the other channels, but perhaps a couple of the PBS stations are a bit better than some of the others From FCC information, I believe this has something to do with the power of the station, but I am not entirely sure about this diagnosis yet. My symptoms are:
* (least often) I can get pixellation with sound that is ok,
* I can see a talking head but have no sound,
* I get freezes.
* I get freezes with an annoying buzzing-flutter sound.
One of the above interruptions happen once per sentence and it is totally unbearable.

I live close to the Boston transmitter, TV Fool and the other online tools say that I should be able to get all of the channels (contact me and I'll give you a link) but TVFool may not be appreciating that I live in a bit of a valley and there are buildings, trees, and hills in the way.

My question is :
* How can I tell if the problem is interference between the two antennae? Or is that even a potential problem?
* How can I tell how much power that I have on each channel and whether it will ever come in? Is the only way to do this with the installer? Shouldn't the original installer have somehow ensured this?
* Is there anything I can do to improve my signal? Filtering? Amplification?


* If the problem is one of adequate reception, is there anything thatt
Merging two antennas, aimed in different directions, together into one downlead will result in reception blackouts when signals from the wrong direction interfere with signals from the desired direction.

Professional antenna installers should be aware of this known problem, common to areas between major cities.

There was an antenna installer who made a lot of money for himself combining antennas aimed at Chicago and South Bend that suffered the predictable result. He also made a lot of money for the cable company as viewers abandoned their new, expensive, professionaly installed outdoor antenas blaming "digital television stations" for their reception problems.

As proof, you will discover that disconnecting the "wrong" antenna will definitely improve reception from "deisred" direction.

As suggested, two downleads from two different antennas to an A/B switch at the back of your TV receiver allows selecting the desired city without blackouts from the wrong direction. You may have to use two parallel distribution systems to several switches if you have multiple TV receivers.

A more extreme solution would be purchasing multiple single-channel DTV processors for each station from one direction and injecting them into the antenna system from the other direction for switchless single cable distribution.
post #10448 of 10632
@Circle. You say you have an amplifier up at the antenna and you live close to transmitter antennas in Newton. From your symptoms, it might be your amplifier is overloaded (too strong an input signal.) This could explain some of your symptoms. If you still see the same symptoms when you test the individual antennas, then I would suspect an amplifier related problem. You could try to bypass it to see if your reception improves.
post #10449 of 10632
Did anyone notice signal reception issues during the Pats game last night? I was getting dropouts every 5-10 minutes the entire evening. I tried rebooting my HTPC and HDhomeruns just to make sure I wasn't seeing a glitch with my setup.
post #10450 of 10632
No problems with Pats game reception here last night. Signal (sadly) came in without any dropouts for us.
post #10451 of 10632
I'm in southern NH and use separate antennas to pick up NH and Boston stations. As has been posted you cannot just combine multiple antennas. In our case I use a VHF-hi to pick up 9 and 11 and a UHF to pick up the Boston stations feeding into a CM 7777 preamp with separate VHF/UHF inputs.

WBIN is on RF 35 so in order to receive that station will either need to use an A/B switch or fancy filter.

We have a rotor but they are the bane of OTA reception. I offset the VHF and UHF antennas to minimize the need to reposition the antenna.

/tom
post #10452 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post

Did anyone notice signal reception issues during the Pats game last night? I was getting dropouts every 5-10 minutes the entire evening. I tried rebooting my HTPC and HDhomeruns just to make sure I wasn't seeing a glitch with my setup.


I had no issues on this end except that the Pats lost! mad.gif
post #10453 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tschmidt View Post

I'm in southern NH and use separate antennas to pick up NH and Boston stations. As has been posted you cannot just combine multiple antennas. In our case I use a VHF-hi to pick up 9 and 11 and a UHF to pick up the Boston stations feeding into a CM 7777 preamp with separate VHF/UHF inputs.

WBIN is on RF 35 so in order to receive that station will either need to use an A/B switch or fancy filter.

We have a rotor but they are the bane of OTA reception. I offset the VHF and UHF antennas to minimize the need to reposition the antenna.

/tom

Sounds like you did what I've done here Tom. I have my UHF antenna facing almost due West even though the Boston stations are SW of me. This way I get a decent signal from WBIN. I have my VHF antenna NNE for the NH channels 9 & 11.

I've toyed with the idea of putting a huge antenna in my attic with a rotor. This way with any kind of propagation, I will be able to orient the antenna to get the Providence stations which are very shaky with my current setup as well as Portland, ME.
post #10454 of 10632
I have a question for Mr Yankowitz from WBZ: Has WBZ ceased transmission of the TV Guide On-Screen data?
In the TVGOS and Sony DHG-HDD DVR forums, it has been reported that the service was recently shut off in other big cities like New York and Chicago. I know Rovi, the parent company of TV Guide On-Screen, announced in November that the sevice would be terminated nationwide by April, but my device seems to have stopped receiving data as of today.
post #10455 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally1912 View Post

I have a question for Mr Yankowitz from WBZ: Has WBZ ceased transmission of the TV Guide On-Screen data?
In the TVGOS and Sony DHG-HDD DVR forums, it has been reported that the service was recently shut off in other big cities like New York and Chicago. I know Rovi, the parent company of TV Guide On-Screen, announced in November that the sevice would be terminated nationwide by April, but my device seems to have stopped receiving data as of today.

I am receiving TVGOS from WBZ on my Dish DTVPal DVR and as of this morning (01-26-2013) I am receiving a full 7 days of listings in my TV Guide EPG. You might want to try re-setting whatever device you are having problems with to see if your TVGOS returns. On my DTVPal DVR a reset to factory defaults is sometimes required to re-acquire TVGOS if it is lost for some reason.
post #10456 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

I am receiving TVGOS from WBZ on my Dish DTVPal DVR and as of this morning (01-26-2013) I am receiving a full 7 days of listings in my TV Guide EPG. You might want to try re-setting whatever device you are having problems with to see if your TVGOS returns. On my DTVPal DVR a reset to factory defaults is sometimes required to re-acquire TVGOS if it is lost for some reason.
With the impending termination of TVGOS looming, what should users dependent upon the system be doing, aside from waiting on pins and needles for the end?
post #10457 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Molnar View Post

With the impending termination of TVGOS looming, what should users dependent upon the system be doing, aside from waiting on pins and needles for the end?

The end of TVGOS by April 2013 (or earlier in some DMAs/markets) will not be a real problem for my Dish DTVPal DVR as it will revert to PSIP data for the program guide and clock time set after TVGOS ends. You can also set manual program timers with the DTVPal DVR (i.e. VCR style date-time-channel) so you don't even need a program guide at all to continue to use the DVR without TVGOS.

Some of the newer TVs can get TVGOS from the internet in addition to getting it over the air so that would be an option once OTA TVGOS ends. If your TVGOS device does not have that internet capability you will no longer have TVGOS once OTA service ends in your area. In that case it may be time to buy a new device that has the capability (or capabilities) that you are looking for.
post #10458 of 10632
Thanks for confirming the TV Guide service lives. My device was receiving the TVGOS stream again this morning, so yesterday must have been a glitch somewhere.
I would like modify my original question and ask Bob Yankowitz if he has a firm date when WBZ will stop transmitting the data.
post #10459 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally1912 View Post

I have a question for Mr Yankowitz from WBZ: Has WBZ ceased transmission of the TV Guide On-Screen data?
In the TVGOS and Sony DHG-HDD DVR forums, it has been reported that the service was recently shut off in other big cities like New York and Chicago. I know Rovi, the parent company of TV Guide On-Screen, announced in November that the sevice would be terminated nationwide by April, but my device seems to have stopped receiving data as of today.

We are still transmitting the signal, but at some point between now and April I expect to hear from Rovi to shut it down.

post #10460 of 10632
You can gang antennas and the DB8e is really a ganged antenna out of the box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tschmidt View Post

I'm in southern NH and use separate antennas to pick up NH and Boston stations. As has been posted you cannot just combine multiple antennas. In our case I use a VHF-hi to pick up 9 and 11 and a UHF to pick up the Boston stations feeding into a CM 7777 preamp with separate VHF/UHF inputs.

WBIN is on RF 35 so in order to receive that station will either need to use an A/B switch or fancy filter.

We have a rotor but they are the bane of OTA reception. I offset the VHF and UHF antennas to minimize the need to reposition the antenna.

/tom
post #10461 of 10632
@ RYankowitz from WBZ

I am located down here in Norwich Connecticut. You'll be happy to know that I receive WBZ at an average signal strength of 55 % @ 100% of the time.

I am using a homemade 4 bay antenna made from copper wire for whiskers, 1" OD PVC pipe for stand-offs and 2" X1/4 boards for the frame structure. The reflector is 1" X 3" wire fence.

My receiver is a Digital Stream DTX9950 since my current television is an old analog CRT type. I do not use an amplifier of any sort on this antenna.

The only other channels I receive full time down here at excellent quality is WGBH 19.1 and 19.2, at average 35 to 45 % signal strength.

WHDH is third in line with a signal that is viewable 40% of the time.

As for your sister station WSBK 39.1, The average is sadly around 5 to 7%, there are times during tropo conditions when the signal peaks out at 50% and is viewable, but that is a rare occurrence.

WSBK has some decent programming, specially on New Years Eve with the Three Stooges marathon, wish it was one of my strongest stations.

Our cable company used to carry WSBK, that is until WSBK became an affiliate of UPN, then it was dropped shortly afterwards.
The only Boston stations Comcast in Norwich carries is WGBH 19.1, World 19.2 and WCVB 20.1, although they block out WCVB during the hours the ABC network feeds take place in favor of ABC affiliate WTNH New Haven, CT.

Just figured I'd send you an on-line QSL card concerning WBZ's signal performance here in south-eastern CT.

Bruce.
Edited by MrBruce - 2/7/13 at 6:33am
post #10462 of 10632
I think you should do better. Have you considered upgrading your antenna? Have you looked at TVFool? Post your TVFool link if you don't mind.

Plugging Norwich Connecticut into TVFool.com, I see you have UHF and VHF stations. Your antenna may not be well suited to the VHF stations. Maybe an inexpensive Y10-7-13 will get you a few more stations...

VHF: WEDN/9 (PBS), WTNH/10 (ABC), WNAC/12 (FOX), WPRI/13 (CBS)
Point your antenna to 73 (12/13) and you should be able to get 9 from the back leaving 10 shakey.

UHF: Your strongest channels are both ION (WHPX at 235 and WPXQ at 98). Point your UHF to 52 and you should get WHPX from the back.

So, you should be able to reliably pull PBS, Fox, CBS, and ION. Maybe ABC via VHF (WTNH) or, more likely, UHF (WCVB).

Given the scattered arrangement of broadcasters, you would probably be a great candidate for a DB8e plus a Y10-7-13 coupled with a CM7777.
Edited by wizwor - 2/7/13 at 9:43am
post #10463 of 10632
@ Wizwor Here's my report:





http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1dda8b4c8e9663

My Tv Fool actually states that Boston is 2 edge, however as I said I get WBZ in here at 45 to 55 % signal strength, no drop outs. WGBH as well.

Here's a good one, WUNI 29.1 and LATV 29.1 come in here at 75 to 80 % signal strength here.

WTNH 10.1 does NOT come in here at all, it is blocked by a vary large 3 story building about a 1/4 mile to the west-south-west of me.

WFSB 33.1 is a no show here as well. I have problems with the south-west to North-West here, the ground starts to rise in that direction and then the houses are basically 20 feet higher then my antennas, so I'm stuck pointed right into their attic areas of two houses.

31.1 WTIC and 45.1 WEDW boom in here though at 80-90%. WFSB Must have a lower tower or something, because it registers as 3% signal and that's about it.

I'd have to erect a 60 foot tower to over-come those houses, however, the 3 story building is roughly 100 feet higher then my antenna is so legally I can not erect anything that would work in that south-western direction.

Bruce.
Edited by MrBruce - 2/7/13 at 4:31pm
post #10464 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBruce View Post

My Tv Fool actually states that Boston is 2 edge, however as I said I get WBZ in here at 45 to 55 % signal strength, no drop outs. WGBH as well.

Here's a good one, WUNI 29.1 and LATV 29.1 come in here at 75 to 80 % signal strength here.

WTNH 10.1 does NOT come in here at all, it is blocked by a vary large 3 story building about a 1/4 mile to the west-south-west of me.

WFSB 33.1 is a no show here as well. I have problems with the south-west to North-West here, the ground starts to rise in that direction and then the houses are basically 20 feet higher then my antennas, so I'm stuck pointed right into their attic areas of two houses.

31.1 WTIC and 45.1 WEDW boom in here though at 80-90%. WFSB Must have a lower tower or something, because it registers as 3% signal and that's about it.

I'd have to erect a 60 foot tower to over-come those houses, however, the 3 story building is roughly 100 feet higher then my antenna is so legally I can not erect anything that would work in that south-western direction.

Bruce.
All reception is local. Buildings and terrain can help as well as hurt -- you can get a signal in from an unexpected direction if there is something to bend around or bounce off. Still, it is not helpful to be in a low spot surrounded by tall buildings. No matter, WTNH is almost due west and VHF. Have you tried a dedicated VHF antenna? When I had a DB8 in my attic, WMUR and WENH were both sketchy. Things got worse when I replaced that with a 91XG. Someone suggested I try a Y5-7-13 and I get both very well now.

Do you know about Aereo? You may want to contact them to see if/when their broadcast over internet service will be available to you...

https://aereo.com/preregister
post #10465 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBruce View Post

@ RYankowitz from WBZ

I am located down here in Norwich Connecticut. You'll be happy to know that I receive WBZ at an average signal strength of 55 % @ 100% of the time.

I am using a homemade 4 bay antenna made from copper wire for whiskers, 1" OD PVC pipe for stand-offs and 2" X1/4 boards for the frame structure. The reflector is 1" X 3" wire fence.

My receiver is a Digital Stream DTX9950 since my current television is an old analog CRT type. I do not use an amplifier of any sort on this antenna.

The only other channels I receive full time down here at excellent quality is WGBH 19.1 and 19.2, at average 35 to 45 % signal strength.

WHDH is third in line with a signal that is viewable 40% of the time.

As for your sister station WSBK 39.1, The average is sadly around 5 to 7%, there are times during tropo conditions when the signal peaks out at 50% and is viewable, but that is a rare occurrence.

WSBK has some decent programming, specially on New Years Eve with the Three Stooges marathon, wish it was one of my strongest stations.

Our cable company used to carry WSBK, that is until WSBK became an affiliate of UPN, then it was dropped shortly afterwards.
The only Boston stations Comcast in Norwich carries is WGBH 19.1, World 19.2 and WCVB 20.1, although they block out WCVB during the hours the ABC network feeds take place in favor of ABC affiliate WTNH New Haven, CT.

Just figured I'd send you an on-line QSL card concerning WBZ's signal performance here in south-eastern CT.

Bruce.

Bruce,

 

Thanks for the QSL.  You are quite a way from our transmitter (almost 70 miles), not completely out of range, but still out there.  If you can only get a few Boston stations, I'm glad ours is one of them.

post #10466 of 10632
I was surprised that my signal -- all channels -- were STRONGER last night. 2, 4, 5, 7, and 38 were all 100 (all Boston) on my DTVPal, 56 was 76, and I was pulling 55 ob 8 (I don't usually get Portland). Now (Sunday morning), I'm seeing 96-100. 56 is steady at 90, 68 is 93,and 21 is 64. 8 is still around 55, but now unwatchable.

I was surprised that the snow did not seem to make things worse.
post #10467 of 10632
I just lost my WBZ signal (~1:30PM Sunday), all other channels are fine. Anyone else experiencing this?
post #10468 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post

I just lost my WBZ signal (~1:30PM Sunday), all other channels are fine. Anyone else experiencing this?

Signal is back (measuring at 100%) at 1:48PM Sunday.
post #10469 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post


Signal is back (measuring at 100%) at 1:48PM Sunday.

We had a momentary outage caused by a power loss.  Although our emergency generator kicked in as it should have, the transmitter had a bit of indigestion and needed a kick to get it back up and running.

post #10470 of 10632
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYankowitz View Post

We had a momentary outage caused by a power loss.  Although our emergency generator kicked in as it should have, the transmitter had a bit of indigestion and needed a kick to get it back up and running.
I rely primarily on broadcast TV (I record WSBK from 3-8 every day). I also have some streaming devices (Roku and Sony Media Players plus Playon and Plex). We also have tablets (4xKindle Fire) that have apps for the local broadcasters. Why have the broadcasters not created Roku channels? I would think this would enhance revenue by increasing viewership. Seems like a win-win...no brainer.
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