Cleveland, OH - TWC - Page 652

Analog VHF signals may be duplicated in digital format by a cable company in order to combat ingress and deliver a better picture. When a cable-ready set is tuned to a VHF broadcast station that's carried "on channel," i.e. 3 is on cable 3, 5 is on cable 5, etc, there's the possibility that the tv set will receive a broadcast station via the cable signal and via the airwaves at the same time due to a loose fitting, poor shielding in the set or other reasons. When this happens, the same picture arrives at the tv set twice, separated by a few microseconds or so. This causes a ghost in the image. By offering the VHF broadcast channels in digital format for STBs and cablecard-equipped sets, the ingress problem is neatly solved.

The UHF broadcasters aren't carried "on-channel," since cable channel 55 is an entirely different frequency than UHF channel 55, and it's the same for the other UHF stations, so there's no ingress issue to work around.

Now the way that a cable company transports the broadcast channel between the headend and the neighborhood can be analog, digital or some combination of both methods depending on the requirements of the system.

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And this "analog cable carriage" of local broadcast stations on cable, even now that analog is gone, will continue as posted above.

Cable systems can only ditch the analog carriage of the over-air stations if they switch entirely to digital, like Massillon Cable is doing.

About 2 minutes before midnight I noticed my TV without a TWC box stopped working. My digital boxes work fine, but the one with just the cable line has fuzz on every channel.

just noticed that also, though only stations from 19.2-41.0 are the only stations missing on both my cable only TV's. tried rescanning and nothing.

actually that problem is only on my new LCD with a QAM tuner in the bedroom. on my living set I only have 15, 18 and 41-77.

and when I put the LCD on air and scanned no channels 2-14, just 14-26, no 22 though. pretty strange. hopefully things will be normal in the morning.

well, it's around 1:20am and things seem to be back to normal. got all my stations back.

Well, the DTV transition is over. TWC is finally adding HD channels. Guess that explains why this place is so silent.

What should we discuss here now? Sports, Music, Movies, TV Shows, Current Events?

Nah, we can start bitching that the June 15th wave of TWC HD channels won't show up exactly at 12:01 AM that day.

I want to bitch about the fact that analog recordings take more disk space on my DVR then digital SD. This unfortunately leads me to the fact that all, and I do mean all the analog channels I recorded on are now in HD which takes even more disk space. And since TW, in its infinite wisdom has decided to make all non local HD channels copy protected I can't move them from my DVR to my computer or the other DVR to make room. Thats what I'll bitch about.

Now I could still record these shows in analog still which takes up 1/2 the disk space of HD but who's going to do that? Whats so stupid about TW's decision is all these shows are not copy protected (in my area) since they are not digital.

And this isn't TW's fault but the only reason I'm sitting here bitching at all is because my Dodger game is delayed due to the fact that Texas Rangers apparently cannot pay their lighting bill or have engineers who don't know what they are doing.

Why is my name in brown now? nickdawgs was for a while but I figured maybe he did that on purpose. Am I in trouble again?

Did a re-scan of my digital TVs and Sony HD DVRs (with TW cable, all cable ready, no set top box) Nothing different I could see. All tune in same basic channels + all clear QAM digital SD and High-Def locals. The DTV transition - a non-issue for me. Hope it went smoothly for everyone else.

I really, really, really, really hope the TWC cable never goes out now. If it does, the only thing I''ll be able to watch is the WKYC nightlight channel. A quick trip through the TV channels with just an antenna connected, ass I get is WKYC analog. Everything else is fuzz. Wow, I can't believe it is gone.

Does anyone with a DiSH 722/622 receiver pick up the audio on WEAO subchannel 3 (49.3) via OTA? I can get the video but not the audio, the other subchannels video and audio come in fine.

Maybe mine was brown because they think I am full of s---!!

hookbill: It's been covered before and while TWC definitely NEEDS to get on the ball in your area (considering I am fairly sure your 2-99 channels are being fed digitally up there in the system but just not in the channel listings pushed to the STBs. If they weren't, they'd have a helluva lot more bandwidth on their hands than they claim.) and start sending those channels digitally to those with boxes. It is just rediculous. Here in legacy territory we have had 2-99 fed as digital for a long while with the only exception being a few local access channels and even those have went digital recently.

The reason why the analogs take up so much space is kind of a total hammering on the Tivo or even TW's own STBs. The mpeg2 encoder chips in those boxes aren't of terribly high quality so will use more bitrate than needed for decent quality compared to higher quality encoders employed by TW at their headends. Combine in all the interference from the analog signal to exacerbate that. And compare that to the 4-5 figure encoders TW employs with minimal or no interference and then added compression to get the bitrates down and you can start to see the connection.

Of course this has all been discussed and beat to death before. Maybe you can just put a bug in the ear of your headend contact there or at least see if there's a given reason why they haven't started feeding you guys those channels digitally yet?

Also, berenga: This is one of the things all these transition ads were trying to clear up. You aren't going to see a change if you are viewing these channels through cable since the transition doesn't affect them. It only affects you if you are receiving them through an antenna. Example here being I used to pull in 21,21-1,21-2,27,27-1,27-2, and 33 with the non-dash channels being the analogs. Now I only get 21-1, 21-2, 27-1, and 27-2. Those analogs are byebye for good and in their place nice crips high-def digital broadcasts often beating the pants off of what is coming across on cable.

Edit: Hopefully if I get up early enough I can finally get around to wiring my outdoor antenna back up and do a rescan and see what I can pick up this time around. Would love to pull in some cleveland stations but doubt it without a good directional+amp.

You forgot to include the picture of the guy beating a dead horse. That's hilarious if anybody has it repost it.

And yeah I'm beating a dead horse but I wanted to bitch and complain and hey why not something that still irritates the crap out of me?

What TWC needs to do and what will never be done is take copy protection of channels that really don't need or want it, not just put it on every channel they please. I wish I knew somebody down in native TW land who had a TiVo, I'd love to see if those "digital" channels you receive in the 2-99 area are actually 0X01. Under TW's theory of "protect anything digital" they would not be.

I don't know if satellite has any home media offerings or if the new TiVo they have will even provide that (the old D-TiVo's did not). Any Satellite people around with a DVR? Does it have home media, in other words the ability to transfer to a computer? And if so can you do that with all channels?

If satellite offers this that IMHO is a huge advantage over cable. Just give me a clear signal and the end of my service contract on my TiVos and I'm gone.

Except one of my TiVo's is lifetime. Crap. Well it will break someday in the next 20 years.

Actually, they are all 0x02 outside the locals (and even a few locals that I spotted last night are marked 0x02 for some reason which is a big no-no). Weather Channel and Discovery used to be copy freely in there but they are no 0x02 along with everything else. Yeah, it's terribly stupid. Need to get a boot up someone's arse at TWC.


I dunno tbh. Last I recall though with the original mpeg2 D-Tivo's that were just as easy to hack as the standalone series1 and series2 models you could copy just about everything over without any home media option whatsoever. But they were essentially clones of the standalone boxes with the DTV hardware added.

Though that says nothing about their 1st party DVRs or even when they decide to come out with the new Tivo boxes. My only guess is they naturally have everything locked down in that respect too. It's more down to the entertainment industry and the content providers on how much they want to put the screws down on the copy protection BS.

Mark Cuban came out and said he wanted HDnet and HDnet movies to be copy freely. We know that didn't happen at TW.

I guess I could have just as easily asked if anybody who has a TiVo with another cable company seems the same type of copy protection.

So you cannot copy freely on 2-99, huh? Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I am.

^^At this whole "copying" dialogue. Am I the only one who really doesn't give a crap?

I'm just disturbed by the fact there are no new channels listed for the end of June. What's going on? I remember that the man said they would be coming every month until the end of the year. Why stop now?

Why do you thjink this is just a TW decision.the content producers are the one who choose to enforce copy privilages and it makes perfect sense if you were a content producer to prohibit digital copying of their material so they can get you to buy THEIR season 2 DVD box set of whatever.

if ya wanna bitch, bitch in the right direction

I dunno who to actually blame though because a number of these channels have been open to copy for a while and only recently did they switch them. So is it TWC being a pain in the arse or the content providers catching up to them?

And there are other providers in certain areas that are copy freely all across the board except maybe some extreme cases like the movie channel premiums (HBO, Showtime, etc.).

Cuban can come out and say all he wants BUT if he isnt the content producer ( yes I know some of it he was) he really has no say in it.

I doubt TW or anyone else for that matter is going to have people standing by to change copy privilages for his produced shows and then switch back.

I would suspect you'll start to see that change as everyone tries to squeeze more blood from the rock.

I think the reasons have been because of uncertainity in the rules. look at the issues with blocking a majority of commercials on streaming audio. that happen becuae of issues with the actors unions demanding a piece of the pie for streaming the commercial ( like radio stations are making much of anything for their streaming feeds)

You ought to do your home work bud. What channels get copy protected at the discretion of the cable provider. I've fought this months ago appealing to the President of Time Warner and I'm not talking Steve Fry. It is completely up to the cable company.

Now usually I will accept what somebody else might say like Vchat or Cathode Kid but I have thoroughly researched this. So don't come in here being disrespectful.

copy protection is at the discresasion of the cable company?
source please...

You want the source? I just told you the source. I'm the source. I researched from FCC filings to CableLabs. The only thing it says is that it is entirely up to the cable companies as to what gets copy protection.

Now I can't tell you exactly where I went because I've known this for over 6 months so you do your own research. That's why I called the President's office to complain about their policy. All they told me was that is their policy and here's 20 bucks have a good day.

Now I want you to apply a little common sense here if you would be so kind. HBO, any of the premium services yes, they should be copy protected. But who really cares about copy protection on an old American Wrestling Association program. Nobody. Yet that gets copy protected. That is a result of policy, not the content provider.

All I can tell you in summary is I did my homework and I have no case. I do know who is responsible and it's Time Warner. Other cable companies do not carry the same policy. Did you not see where I said Mark Cuban wanted HDnet to be copy free, yet TW refused because of their "all digital 0x02" policy.

This wasn't always the case. This came about oh I say a year ago. Digital channels were 0x01 but TW changed all that over night. No mandate forced them to. It was done simply to cover their buts at the expense of people like me who spent a whole bunch of money so we could have equipment that would allow us to copy from our TiVos to our computers or to another TiVo. They simply didn't care.

Common sense. I can copy freely a baseball game on ESPN but I can't copy it on ESPNHD. If ESPN had something to say about it they wouldn't allow copy at all on ESPN. But if you can do it on analog, why the heck not on HD. And if you can do it on analog then why should TW natives be forced to not have the ability to use their equipment to transfer shows that are exactly the same except they have it in it's digital form.

No sir, this is strictly TW policy and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.

Except bitch. And I'm done bitching tonight. You can feel free to see if I'm wrong, you spend months looking for a way around it. There is none. Up to the cable provider, bottom line.

And while I'm at it nickdawg, quit your complaining about copy protection there are apparently some others who do care. Just because you don't doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it. Now in the words of Mick Foley, who I can only copy on SPIKE TV analog, HAVE A NICE DAY!

Believe me hookbill. I'm on the same side as you on that rant. Just like your Tivo, me being able to transfer DVR'd recordings over firewire completely relies on those copy protection flags. Copy Never and Copy Once mean the incoming firewire signal is corrupted/encrypted (even though I still see ~15m/s on HD in VLC) and Copy Freely of course gives a working feed.

It's extremely frustrating as it is having so few channels open even really lowly channels at that. But TWC going all out and wiping out just about everything is just total nonsense and BS.

Especially when it comes to SD 480i channels. I mean, what's the deal? Especially with how compressed to sh*t they are.

I can just as easily get by their copy protection if I want using either a SD capture card via S-Video and lossless video or Hauppage's HD capture box. But it's more hassle than just letting the box do the work and just transfer the original format across as they feed it through the cable.