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kenwood receiver problem - Page 4

post #91 of 112
2/12/10 at 9:44am
And I'm going to bring back this thread from the dead again!


I have an older reciever too. VR-407

I'ts been in the closet for awhile, but I'm setting up for a sound system in the garage, and figured I'd dig this out.

It's not powering up anymore! Went away last year working just fine....

|But, no longer.

Plug it in, and it just flashes the standby light a few times and goes back off. The LED display comes on and everything. But, it only powers up for less than 5 seconds.

Any tips?
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post #92 of 112
3/1/10 at 4:26pm
Well, I'm here to testify to another success story with the Kenwood VR-509. I haveknown my IR receiver had been on the fritz for several years now. I took the expedient remedy way back when and switched the receiver from IR reception to RF. Since this solved my problem, I just let it go (note: not all affected receivers mentioned in this thread have both IR/RF capability).

This was fine until I bought a Harmony 700 remote which requires the IR to be active in the VR-509. Yes, I knew this before I bought the Harmony, and resigned myself to the fact I would have to break open the box and look around. If I could fix it, fine. If not, I'd have an excuse (albeit and expensive one) to buy a new receiver. Prior to commencing a repair job, and since I was expecting a defective IR sensor, I was about to search online for parts availability and thought I'd Google about this particular problem. That's how I got to this thread.

I am embarrassed to sayI am a certified electronics tech, who obviously failed to do what I have done many times beforefix electronics at the component level. Why? Well as I mentioned, RF worked fine for my purposes until recently. Secondly, these problems are seldom do to a poor soldering job, as large scale quality control methods usually catch the problem in the bud; and if not, the manufacturer either admits, or is forced to admit the problem, and the product is recalled. Obviously not the case here! Thirdly, many components are either hard to find via the manufacturer, their suppliers or third party vendors, and searching for them is often not worth the effort. Troubleshooting at the component level is almost a dying art. Circuit board replacement is the norm these days. That being said:

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the solution. Kudos to you all. It inspired me to get off my lazy butt and do something about it.

A few random thoughts/hints:

  • Blow the dust out of your case either with an air compressor set at about 2-4 PSI or buy a can of cleaning duster at any office supply or electronics store.
  • If you don't already have one, buy a solder sucker from Radio Shack or other electronics supplier. These are valuable in case you overflow your solder joint. Also, I prefer to remove the old solder with these completely and start fresh. This is what I did in this case. The last I checked a solder sucker cost less than $10. For those of you who don't know, these are simply plug in irons with a hollow head connected to a squeezable rubber bulb through a hollow tube. You let the iron heat-up, squeeze the bulb, apply it to the solder joint until it melts and then release pressure on the bulb thus sucking the solder from the joint. Easy to use and invaluable to have.
  • If you don't have one, or don't like to use a grounding wrist strap, just be careful not to touch the exposed circuit board area with your hands. If you have to, ground yourself by touching the chassis with your hand first.
  • When removing the white headphone connector, be aware that the connector sits inside a white plastic socket. The distinction between the two may be difficult to see. If so, be careful not to pull on the entire socket to disattach. Take a pair of small needle nose pliers and grip and pull near the top lip.
  • Remember the problem with the poor solder joints is endemic to several Kenwood models spanning several years. Many are mentioned in this thread and there may be others. The good news is they are all similar as far as ease in identifying the offending location on the PCB-- and dismantling the box is fairly straightforward with only minor variations.

Thanks again to the dedicated contributors on this thread and good luck to all who carry on this endeavor!
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post #93 of 112
3/1/10 at 4:42pm
Grifter84,

If your speakers are attached, you may have short in one or more of them. But, if it's doing that when you don't have the wires attached then it might that one of the speaker terminals is faulty. Try it without the speaker wires.

If the problem is not in the speaker wire(s), then try to reset the receiver's microprocessor. Be aware that this will clear all your previous settings and restore your unit to it's factory settings, which is probably a moot point if you haven't used it in years. I am not familiar with your model, so look in your manual to learn how to do this. On mine I must unplug the power and then plug it in again while holding down the standby button.

If none of this, nor an internet search works, start a separate thread regarding the problem. Someone else may have found the solution. Any further help on my part would require hands-on troubleshooting.
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post #94 of 112
3/1/10 at 6:27pm
Hi, thanks for getting back to me. I tried that Re-set by holding the standby just now, it worked for all of 3 minutes. Oh, and I re-set it with nothing hooked up, and after a minute while it was on, I hooked up one speaker.
Guessing the good ol' reciever has just bitten the dust. Guess I'll just hook up a regular stereo! lol. OR any other advice?
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post #95 of 112
3/2/10 at 11:31am
Grifter84

Reset your receiver again. If it does not stay on for an extended period of time then the problem is an internal one. Among the simplest of them possibly being a fuse, or the power supply.

Just so I understand, you fired up the receiver with nothing attached, speakers or otherwise, correct? Then, during a one minute period the receiver display was working. At this point you then hooked up the speaker wire and the display continued to work, but for only about 2 minutes more?

If your receiver does stay on by itself as I indicated in the first sentenceand if that was the procedure you followed abovethen it doesn't eliminate the possibility of a shorted speaker wire, even though the receiver stayed on for a short period of time longer.

If the receiver has the ability to stay on by itself, start the receiver with nothing attached and see how long it runs without the wire attached. Then after about 10 minutes (if it lasts that long) attach the speaker wire again and see if it causes the problem to reappear. If it does, then do the procedure again from the beginning resetting the microprocessor and using another speaker wire attached it to the same terminal. Try this on at least 3 of your speaker wires. If all wires cause the receiver to die, then you pretty much eliminated the wire as the offender.

Now, starting over, take any one of those wires and attach it to each of your other terminals separately and in succession. Tell me your results. This procedure should confirm or deny the possibility that a faulty terminal(s) is the problem.
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post #96 of 112
3/3/10 at 10:55am
dasrite;

The reciever wouldnt even stay powered up for more than a few seconds when I first unpacked it, with nothing attached at all. So, when I first plugged it in the display would come on, and then quickly go back off, and the standby red light would flash.

I tried your suggestion of "resetting the microprocessor" which got me better results! (with no speakers attached.) But, the problem now is after I attach a speaker or two, I can use the reciever for all of 3-5 minutes with no issues, then, the sound cuts out, display goes off, and the red standby button starts flashing again.

I'll try re-setting it again, see if I can make it to an hour of use!

I also may try cleaning it.
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post #97 of 112
3/3/10 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifter84 View Post

dasrite;

I tried your suggestion of "resetting the microprocessor" which got me better results! (with no speakers attached.) But, the problem now is after I attach a speaker or two, I can use the reciever for all of 3-5 minutes with no issues, then, the sound cuts out, display goes off, and the red standby button starts flashing again.

Did you try the procedure I outlined above? From what you describe it appears that you have not eliminated the speaker wire as the problem. There may be an intermittent short or an electromagnetic effect in the wire, thus delaying the time it takes to affect the receiver.

To reiterate:
1. Does your receiver run (i.e. does not go into blinking mode) with nothing attached for at least 10 minutes?

2. If it won't run by itself for at least 10 minutes. Stop. It's an internal problem that needs hands-on evaluation from a tech.

2. If it does run by itself, follow the procedure I suggested in the post above yours. If you want to take a shortcut regarding the wire test, just use a different speaker wire-- preferrably new if available. Connect only one speaker wire at a time.

3. If the receiver starts blinking with the new wire attached then you've probably eliminated the faulty wire scenario-- because what are the odds of a new (or several different wires) all being defective?

4. So, assuming the speaker wire is not the problem, you need to see what the wiring does on the other speaker terminals in order to eliminate the possiblity of a short at any one of them.

If you follow the procedure I outlined above, detailing the results in your reply, I can tell you more.
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post #98 of 112
10/28/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasrite View Post

Did you try the procedure I outlined above? From what you describe it appears that you have not eliminated the speaker wire as the problem. There may be an intermittent short or an electromagnetic effect in the wire, thus delaying the time it takes to affect the receiver.

To reiterate:
1. Does your receiver run (i.e. does not go into blinking mode) with nothing attached for at least 10 minutes?

2. If it won't run by itself for at least 10 minutes. Stop. It's an internal problem that needs hands-on evaluation from a tech.

2. If it does run by itself, follow the procedure I suggested in the post above yours. If you want to take a shortcut regarding the wire test, just use a different speaker wire-- preferrably new if available. Connect only one speaker wire at a time.

3. If the receiver starts blinking with the new wire attached then you've probably eliminated the faulty wire scenario-- because what are the odds of a new (or several different wires) all being defective?

4. So, assuming the speaker wire is not the problem, you need to see what the wiring does on the other speaker terminals in order to eliminate the possiblity of a short at any one of them.

If you follow the procedure I outlined above, detailing the results in your reply, I can tell you more.

Another success in solving the intermittent issue with remote control in kenwood receivers, i had the VR-517 with the same problem and after touched up solder joins of the IR LED in the front PCB(Printed circuit board) of my receiver becomes to live again, i just want to share what i found, so i´m an Eng. that works in EMS (Electronic contract manufacturer) so once i reviewed last post on this topic i went deeper into this finding the problem is not cold solder but crack or fractured solder join, this could be cause for 2 reasons 1.- Thermal shock in manufacturing process 2.- Mechanical stress in manufacturing or normal use process. I doubt about the 1st reason as the root cause since same happens in different models, manufactured on different years, meaning this is a systemic issue across the years and models, so it is almost impossible that same profile wave solder parameters are being used in all the models since PCB are different. the second option is what i´m pretty sure is the root cause since the LED is covered by a plastic housing the same in the remote control IR LED, that housing is over stressing the solder join probably because the manufacturing process or the assembly of this part is right after wave solder process (Solder machine used for Pin trough hole devices) or because the way that people was inserting this part in manufacturing since it is tight to the LED and need enough pressure to make a proper assembly of this part, why the intermittent? because all plastic parts are sensitive to the temperature, the temperature expand the plastic and push or cause misscontact in the weaken solder join of this component, and after a while star working (not all the times since behavior of the plastic is different in all cases) due to the variation of the temperature of the heatsinks near of this PCB that warm up plastic part on the kenwood receivers. However i just want to share what i found and to explain very probable root cause of this issues. All i can say after 7 years or so is thanks Chinadog i hope all the group keep on going in the improvement path. saludos!!
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post #99 of 112
3/29/11 at 1:48pm
Thanks for helping me fix my ancient Kenwood VR-517! Best link in the thread: http://home.comcast.net/~jcoxdesigns/Kenwood/index.html
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post #100 of 112
11/13/11 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinadog View Post

Glad to see this thread continues to help folks out! Happy Holidays!

Bud

Hey ChinaDog,

Signed up to this forum "JUST" so I could say THANKS, U ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I found this post by accident...............VR-309 has been cutting out for years!!!
Read this post about a month ago and have relatives coming in for the holidays, I couldn't have the sound bouncing during 'X-MAS shows' and house full of kids/relatives
As of 11.11.11 your post/thread continues to work perfectly!!

Happy Holidays
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post #101 of 112
11/14/11 at 4:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by retawrat View Post

Hey ChinaDog,

Signed up to this forum "JUST" so I could say THANKS, U ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I found this post by accident...............VR-309 has been cutting out for years!!!
Read this post about a month ago and have relatives coming in for the holidays, I couldn't have the sound bouncing during 'X-MAS shows' and house full of kids/relatives
As of 11.11.11 your post/thread continues to work perfectly!!

Happy Holidays

LOL! Great news. Thanks for the update.

Bud
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post #102 of 112
2/5/12 at 2:06pm
My VR-509 had the curse. Resoldering the infrared detector behind the front panel fixed it.
This defect is caused by the failure of the factory to break off the temporary retention tab on the IR unit after soldering, I believe.
My IR detector fits into a recess on the display subpanel and is held there by a single plastic hooked tab. The IR unit has three heavy terminal legs that extend 3/4" down and through the circuit board for soldering on the reverse side.
I was very pleasantly surprised when I inspected the solder joints with a magnifying glass and found .010" cracks around the full circumferance of each. Differing rates of thermal expansion or the installation of the IR receiver while much colder than the chassis had caused the legs to lengthen and break out the solder joints. They pushed against the hook tab which I easily broke off. The IR unit now floats on its terminals.
This was very forseeable and I imagine the original designer specified that the retention tab be removed after soldering. Was it a recurring error or a penny pincher that resulted in leaving the temporary tab in place and many failures?
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post #103 of 112
8/1/12 at 8:31pm
You guys are awesome!!!!! Hats off especially to Chinadog and jcox designs. I have a VR-509 that has not worked via remote for years. I just got a new Harmony remote hoping it would work. When it didn't I found this sight. I'm excited to try the solder fix. I'll reply back on the results. Like someone said earlier, "this" is what the internet was made for. This is a great community with great people.
Kevin
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post #104 of 112
8/2/12 at 8:59am
@Kevin

Wow - my pictures from four years ago are still being used!!! I'm glad I left them on my site smile.gif

Good luck with the repair!

Jim
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post #105 of 112
8/2/12 at 10:21am
I'm amazed how long this thread has been around and how many people find it. Glad it all worked for you. smile.gif

Bud
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post #106 of 112
8/2/12 at 6:21pm
Even though I still own my Kenwood......I am amazed people are still worried about fixing them.....LOL
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post #107 of 112
8/2/12 at 7:38pm
It worked. Found the broken solders so easy. Had a tech friend help with the re-solder. Plugged it in and tried it out, but couldn't get the sound to work. Finally, I figured out I had my digital opticals not plugged in correctly. Fixed that and sound came back. Then the moment of truth.... Tried it out with my new Logitech remote and worked fine. Wow... after years of getting up to change volume, settings, etc., now I feel spoiled.

Thanks guys for your help.

Kevin
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post #108 of 112
11/26/12 at 9:12pm
Does anyone have a pic of where the IR sensor is on a vr-405?
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post #109 of 112
1/18/13 at 7:59pm
Just did this on my VR-507. Worked like a charm.

My remote housing got really sticky, like someone dipped it in syrup, so I don't use it anymore. The rubbery plastic coating just broke down I guess. But I have a universal remote that works great. The old sticky one is in a ziplok bag just in case I need to program an extra button. smile.gif

Thanks guys! Saved me from buying a new receiver.

Also, a good trick to see if your remote is outputting anything from the infrared LED is to watch it with a camera, even a phone camera. You should see it flicker when you hit a button. That's how I knew my remote wasn't at fault.

Keywords to help anyone searching: Kenwood VR-507 Remote Not Working
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post #110 of 112
1/25/13 at 8:15pm
Yay!

Bud
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post #111 of 112
3/25/13 at 4:42pm
I have a Kenwood VR-409 that was failing to respond to the remote control. Neither the original remote nor my universal remote would work. For several months, tapping on the front of the receiver-amplifier would cause it to start working again. This finally stopped working as well and I had no remote control capability at all. mad.gif

A little Internet searching led me to this site and also remotecentral.com. Thanks to the fantastic description and repair suggestions, I have now repaired my receiver-amplifier for the price of a soldering iron and all is well in my living room again! smile.gif

I wanted to "pay it forward" to anyone who may have a VR-409 and provide a picture with the pins that need to be re-soldered. The picture is with the front cover laid forward (after disassembling the unit) with the IR pins highlighted in yellow.

Thanks to those who provided the info and good luck to the next person performing a similar repair!

Kenwood VR-409 IR solder repair.jpg 241k .jpg file
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post #112 of 112
3/26/13 at 10:43am
Another Kenwood rises from the IR ashes. Glad you bring it back to life.

Bud
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