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Signal Processing on Sony HDTVs  

post #1 of 176
Thread Starter 
Just so we're all on the same page, here's the background:

DVI on Sony 2002 vs 2003
Vertical bar on Sonys when viewing 1080i
DRC modes on Sony sets
So SONY 4:3s only scan HD in their 16:9 area?

And here's the latest from the last link:
Quote:
Originally posted by montreal
Even though my question is treated in two other threads, I raised the question here because DWE referred above to a MID3 type parameter and I hoped he also knew about this mysterious MID1 DPSW parameter. Sorry to go off on a tangent.

Adu, you can only get a scrolling bar by having the incoming 1080i signal present.

My suspicion relates to what you have mentioned in your other thread about the difference between 2002 and 2003 where some circuits are bypassed for better PQ.

By chance, the solution to stopping the scrolling bar on 2002 models is also to completely bypass the circuit which up-converts 720p, and 1080i to 1080.0001i, for lack of a better name. Without the patch activated bypass circuit, I wondered if 480i and 480p were also being up-converted as well, maybe both to 1080.0001i?

The scrolling bar is due to the difference between 1080i and 1080.0001i, roughly one hertz. When bypassing the up-conversion circuit which is only reasonable for 480p and 1080i (480i and 720p both need up-conversion), you also eliminate using the two redundant a/d and d/a conversions for a better PQ.

To know that the bypass is working, one has to have over 2 volts present across pin 5/6 of connector CN3203 of the B board (TH CONTROL). This is the signal that turns on the bypass circuit. If it fails to ever turn on with the HDPT patch (I assume it always does when required), then I was wondering if the MID1 DPSW patch increased the chance that it would turn on.

This second patch (DPSW) was specified for the XBR2 but not the HS500/XBR800 and I assume that the HA3 chassis may have more privileges than the DA4 chassis since their owners paid more money for the former.

Also the TH CONTROL signal comes directly from the delicate main CPU chip outputting a MOS level signal.

In a month or two I plan on measuring the presence of my TH CONTROL signal when playing a 480p or 1080i source. I may even attach a buffered LED pilot light to come on when the signal is present.
Quote:
Originally posted by montreal
HDPT is under category OP.

As for whether 480i and 480p are up-converted to 1080i? We know that without the HDPT patch, every input signal must go through the conversion circuit.

1080i is up-converted to 1080.0001i causing the scrolling bar, and 720p is up-converted to 1080.0001i and 480i and 480p are up-converted to something.

The reason I add .0001 to the format is that we can't be sure that the horizontal frequency coming out of the converter is a precise copy or multiple of the source frequency. It is internally generated from an independent source.

So the question is if 480p goes into the up-converter, does it come out of it as 480.0001p or 960.0001i or 1080.0001i? All would look about the same because the converter does a good job. And would 480i come out of the converter as 960.0001i or 1080.0001i?

Switching on the bypass circuit for 480p and 1080i input signals allows the horizontal scanning rate to lock onto the incoming signal and completely eliminate any slow or fast scrolling vertical bar.

My guess is that all formats (480i,480p,720p, and 1080i) come out of the converter at 1080.0001i. The 1080.0001 timing is subdivided from a fixed crystal oscillator and it would be the one and only native scanning rate for the TV. You would need a oscilloscope to see it or hold a transistor AM radio near the back of the TV and tune it between stations and listen if the whining sound changes pitch when changing inputs from 1080i to 480i to 480p.

In other parts of the world, multiple formats may all get up-converted to one fixed internal clock generated scan rate as well. Perhaps in other countries the scan rates of the input signals are never very close to the TV's native scan rate so that the vertical bar scrolls too fast to be noticed.

In North America, Sony made the mistake of choosing a native scan rate too close to the up-converted scan rate ( a 1 hertz difference).
post #2 of 176
Thread Starter 
Montreal,

If there is any unnecessary processing/conversion being applied to 1080i on the pre-2003 Sonys, I'd definitely like to try to get to the bottom of it.

I tried setting HDPT=0, and I do see a noticeable difference in the 1080i picture. I really need to get a look at a service manual, so I have a better idea what's going on in these circuits, but so far here's what I've been able to discern just playing around in the service menu.

1) With HDPT=1 (the default setting), the PQ of 1080i looks very similar to 480p and 720p, in terms of it's sharpness and saturation. However with HDPT=0, 1080i looks a bit different than the other two signals. It seems softer, less yellow, and not as saturated on my TV. Perhaps not quite as edgy or punched up.

2) Setting HDPT=0 only seems to effect 1080i on my TV. 720p & 480p look the same regardless of whether HDPT is 0 or 1.

NOTE: In Post #277 where the bar fix is mentioned, it states rather explicitely to select the RF input on some TVs before changing HDPT. So perhaps it's not such a good idea to change this item while 1080i is actually being displayed on some TVs.

3) When HDPT=1 (the default setting), changing MID1/DPSW to 0 seems to disable the video signal for 480p, 720p and 1080i, turning the screen black,(but leaving the CRT itself on).

WARNING: Changing DPSW eliminates everything from the screen, including the service menu!!! So if you push the wrong button on the remote or write changes to memory while the screen is blank, you could have a VERY difficult time getting any image back on your TV screen!!!! This stuff is for advanced service menu users only! And until more is known about this setting, I would not recommend that anyone else change it from the factory default, unless you use extreme caution and know what you're doing.

4) However, when HDPT=0, changing MID1/DPSW from 0 to 1 seems to have no effect on 1080i. IOW, the "new" 1080i picture stays on, and looks the same as far as I can tell. However, 720p, and 480p still go black as before. Again, HDPT appears to effect 1080i, but not 720p or 480p.

5) When HDPT=0, none of the MID..... sizing and positioning adjustments I've been using have any effect on the "new" 1080i picture. Like everything else though, it is resizeable with the global sizing and positioning controls in 2170D-1 (VPOS, VSIZ) & 2170D-2 (HPOS, HSIZ).

6) Unlike most service menu items, it appears that HDPT does not need to be written to memory to take effect. It seems to stay at whatever value you last entered.

7) Irrespective of any of the above, 480p does look different than the interlaced modes when viewed close up. 480p has much more distinct dots/scanlines with spaces in between than the interlaced modes. So at least in terms of what's on the screen, it appears to be scanning differently.

8) With HDPT=0, the "new" softer 1080i picture on my 34XBR800 reminds me a little bit of the softer (but perhaps more precise?) character of the image on the 34XBR910. This is probably just wishful thinking on my part though. :)

So I guess, here's my question,.... just to kind of break this down. Do you think that switching HDPT to 0 could reroute 1080i so it bypasses some of the processing or conversion that's being applied to the other signals?
post #3 of 176
ADU i swear some of those posts should be required reading material.At
least for all Sony reps. Between Montreal,uzun,dt-dc, yourself and a few others the information is really invaluable. Definitely much to read but going
over it again, it starts to sink in
post #4 of 176
Thread Starter 
:D

I was one of the unbelievers regarding the different circuitry paths. However, if there is a difference, then it would be very cool if somethin like HDPT could be used as some sort of work-around. I'm not sure we can jump to that conclusion yet though. There are still alot of unanswered questions in all this.
post #5 of 176
Thread Starter 
Plus, we still do not know the significance of DPSW in all this.

DPSW is rather tricky BTW. If you leave it set with the picture turned off, and then press the wrong button on the remote, or write the new setting to memory you may have a heck of a time getting an image back on your TV!!!!! Because it eliminates everything from the screen, including the service menu.

So BE CAREFUL if you start playin around with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS STUFF IS NOT FOR THE NEWBIES.
post #6 of 176
I knew there was a question that I wanted to ask, I was very tired and instead of editing or UNdoing I'll leave it.
Without reading thru the 800 line threads cause there are so many. Is there
a hardware only fix for the 1080i 2002 Sony's? I remember there being
problems not just on Sony's but the Toshiba's WS how about the Phillips , Panasonic, Samsung is any of this related? It would seem that there
were many shared boards between these Companies
post #7 of 176
DPSW is rather tricky BTW. If you leave it set with the picture turned off, and then press the wrong button on the remote, or write the new setting to memory you may have a heck of a time getting an image back on your TV!!!!! Because it eliminates everything from the screen, including the service menu.

Don't tell me I am the only one with Ctrl-Alt-Del on my remote control!
post #8 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Don't tell me I am the only one with Ctrl-Alt-Del on my remote control!
:) Yes, I guess changing to a different video input, or using the memory recall feature on the remote should "erase" the last DPSW entry and get the picture back, provided it was not accidently write it to memory. :) Is that what you're referring to? Or have you perhaps tried the "SM reset"? I don't know anyone who's tried the latter for fear of possibly undoing factory tweaks. I've been tempted to give it a go myself though.

BTW, I think the "new" 1080i wth HDPT=0 looks a bit more natural on my TV. It may be my imagination but it seems to have more subtle shades of color. And as I was saying above, it appears to eliminate some of the yellowish tint I've noticed since "correcting" the color decoders and using the Samsung 931 player, as well as reducing some edginess. Not sure if it's safe to leave HDPT at this setting though.
post #9 of 176
Quote:
So I guess, here's my question,.... just to kind of break this down. Do you think that switching HDPT to 0 could reroute 1080i so it bypasses some of the processing or conversion that's being applied to the other signals?

ADU,

I'm convinced that this parameter activates the TH CONTrol signal on the 'B' board when you set it to 0. Sony claims the only way to remedy the scrolling vertical bar is to ensure that the B board contains the 2 chips that create the bypass. Some 2002 Hi Scan sets were manufactured missing these chips and these boards (series 325) are not compatible with the fix.
Series 327 boards have the chips but you also need the parameter changed to 0 to make these chips function.

As stated in the original thread on the scrolling bar, changing HDPT to 0 also changes the performance of the DC restorer circuit when viewing 1080i and this changes the brightness slightly.

The service bulletin (see original thread) tells how to correct the brightness in 1080i.

Remember that when the bypass circuit is activated, a lot of video processing is really bypassed.

I have yet to actually measure the voltage of the TH CONTrol signal to determine if the reality matches my theory. I feel very confident. Why else would Sony make a big deal about the presence of the 2 bypass chips (one for the 3 video signals and one for the 2 sync signals)?

If the bypass control signal is also being activated for 480p, then this could explain why you are getting a better PQ on 480p now that HDPT has been changed to 0.

When I do measure the control signal, then I will also test if the signal comes on for 480p. If not, I may add my own hard bypass switch to force the TH CONTrol signal to a hi state.

Quote:
5) When HDPT=0, none of the MID..... sizing and positioning adjustments I've been using have any effect on the "new" 1080i picture. Like everything else though, it is resizeable with the global sizing and positioning controls in 2170D-1 (VPOS, VSIZ) & 2170D-2 (HPOS, HSIZ).
Changing HDPT to 0 bypasses completely the DRC chip (re-scaler) and the MID chip (twin view) completely. This explains why you see no effect from changing the MID parameters. What you see on the screen is the raw 1080i signal, be it from the components input or the DVI input.
post #10 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Changing HDPT to 0 bypasses completely the DRC chip (re-scaler) and the MID chip (twin view) completely. This explains why you see no effect from changing the MID parameters. What you see on the screen is the raw 1080i signal, be it from the components input or the DVI input.
Very interesting indeed. I'm definitely glad you brought this out.
Quote:
If the bypass control signal is also being activated for 480p, then this could explain why you are getting a better PQ on 480p now that HDPT has been changed to 0.
Actually I am (unfortunately) NOT seeing any change in 480p as a result of setting HDPT=0. It looks identical regardless of how HDPT is set. The same with 720p. Only 1080i seems to be effected by this item on my TV. I tried using some of the MID2 sizing controls on 480p after switching HDPT to 0 just to verify this, and they still work as before. So there appears to be no change to 480p.

480p does appear to scan progressively though, rather than being converted to an interlaced mode, as I mentioned above.

Perhaps there is a separate or add'l setting somewhere else which could force a 480p bypass as well.
Quote:
Remember that when the bypass circuit is activated, a lot of video processing is really bypassed.
That seems consistent with what I'm seeing on the "new" 1080i, with HDPT=0.
post #11 of 176
Quote:
The 910's display format is 1080i. If you feed it with 480i, 480p, or 720p native signal, the 910 would just use the internal conversion circuitry to convert the signal to 1080i. Your 480i/480p/720p PQ is limited by the quality of the 910's format converter. In the end, it's still 1080i. And yes, I have seen slight evidence of "stairstepping" artifacts in a few HD scenes. It's very very minor. I don't think, even with progressive scan, you can completely eliminate it unless you increase the resolution to an obscene level, in the tens of thousand range.
NTN1 makes this claim in the 34XBR910 review thread. If this is true, then it means that the Hi Scan sets can only display something that's already, or converted internally to, 1080i. Without changing HDPT, even 1080i is reconverted to 1080.0001i.

If this is the case, it may be imprudent of me to attempt to force the bypass circuit to direct 480p directly to a CRT drive optimized for 1080i.

480p has a slightly slower scan rate than 1080i.

I've never understood exactly how with interlaced format, the second frame gets shifted down one extra line so that there is an interleaving of lines between the first and second frame.

I assume this is done in the studio by slightly adjusting the time delay of the first horizontal sync pulse to follow the last vertical sync pulse.
If this is the case, in theory, the Sony set should be able to display 480p directly. Perhaps linearity might suffer on a display optimized for a 1080i scan rate.
post #12 of 176
Thread Starter 
I don't know about the 910, but NTN1's remarks re the upconversion of all signals to 1080i do not seem to jibe with what I'm seeing on my 34XBR800 screen. Again, 480p appears to scan progessively on my TV. I've been doin digital imaging alot of years, and I'm pretty sure I can distinguish the two close-up. Having one of the DVI players handy helps though, because you can easily switch between 480p and 1080i to see the difference.

However, if all you have is an analog 480i player, you can still see a difference between the interlaced and progressive modes. If you look at the screen close-up with a fairly static image, like the splash/menu screen on a DVD or the white level THX test pattern, and then switch between the different DRC de-interlacing options, you should be able to see the difference. Progressive and Cinemotion will have very distinct dots/scanlines, while the Interlaced mode will not. Interlaced will have a "smoother" appearance due to the offset of the alternating scans.
post #13 of 176
Thread Starter 
Perahps the TV is looking at the horizontal scanrate/sync (or whatever the correct term is) to distinguish between the different incoming signals. If memory serves, 480i=15.75kHz, while 480p=31.5kHz, and 540p/1080i=33.75kHz.
post #14 of 176
Thread Starter 
Eventually, I think the best way to handle all the different fomats on this current crop of 1080i hi-scan TVs may simply be to convert them all to 1080i via a HQ external STB and input that via DVI. The DVI players seem to demonstrate that this can be done pretty well, provided the video source is digital to begin with. If you don't have a DVI port on your TV, then going component 1080i from an external digital video hub could still be the next best thing.

I sympathize with your desire to see some more pure 480p in the meantime though. :)
post #15 of 176
ADU,

I think almost all CRT HDTVs including the Sony XBR and HS are dual scan, meaning two native scan rates.

480p/960i 31.5KHz

540p/1080i 33.75KHz


So the tv is capable of natively scanning 4 types of signals although I haven't heard of 540p being used? But Sony's DRC takes advantage of the 960i capability (at least they call it an advantage)
post #16 of 176
Thread Starter 
I think you're probably correct, xrox.

[Without the HDPT bypass] 540p from my HTPC seems to be treated just like 1080i on my TV. I.e. the alternating 540-line scans are still offset. Since the horizontal scanrates on an incoming 540p and 1080i signal are the same, perhaps the TV may have trouble distinguishing between the two, and switching the screen to progressive scan for 540p [without the HDPT bypass].

960i probably works differently though since it's generated internally by the TV's DRC functions. So as you suggest above, the TV's DRC may be able to switch the 31.5kHz signal it sends to the CRT from progressive to interlaced to deliver either 480p or 960i on the screen.

Whether the 34XBR910 works the same way though, I really don't know for sure. I haven't looked at one with the same level of scrutiny as my 34XBR800.
post #17 of 176
Thread Starter 
I notice in Post #277 where the bar fix is mentioned, that it states very explicitely to select the RF input on the TV before changing HDPT. So perhaps it's not such a good idea to change this item while 1080i is actually being displayed on some TVs.
post #18 of 176
Adu,

I agree that HDPT must be changed only when the selected input is RF (Video 1?).

When you changed DPSW, were you doing this with the input set to Video 1 (RF)?

Changing the DPSW is only required for the HA3 chassis (XBR2) and is only done along with HDPT while video5 (components) is selected. For the DA4 chassis (XBR800/HS500), only HDPT is changed and only while video1(RF) is selected.

Did you loose the on-screen display at the same time as you changed DPSW?

The on-screen display text is injected into the video path at the CRT drive circuit, after the DRC and MID.

I'm still curious as to why DPSW is changed on the KD34XBR2 but not on the XBR800.
post #19 of 176
Thread Starter 
I'll get to your questions, montreal, but I just noticed something extremely weird today re 540p computer DVI input on my 34xbr800.

When HDPT=1, 540p scans interlaced, as though it were 1080i. No surprise there. However, when HDPT=0, 540p scans progressively! (with no jitter/flicker) on my TV, AND the signal type in the service menu is still registering as 1080i. Furthermore, DPSW does not disable the "new" progressive 540p.

So with the HDPT "bypass", these TV's seem to be smarter than I've given them credit for. I thought it would see all 33.75kHz signals the same and simply display them as interlaced 1080i. This is the way it seems to work when HDPT=1. But with HDPT=0, 540p scans progressively. So maybe the TV can sense something other than the horizontal scanrate to distinguish between an interlaced and progressive signal.... at least on a "bypassed" 33.75kHz signal.

To review:

HDPT=1
33.75kHz 1080i = interlaced scan
33.75kHz 540p = interlaced scan
And both 540p and 1080i can be disabled with DPSW=1

HDPT=0
33.75kHz 1080i = interlaced scan
33.75kHz 540p = progressive scan
And neither 540p nor 1080i can be disabled with DPSW=1

I also notice the same changes in PQ when switching HDPT from 1 to 0 with 540p as I did with 1080i. So I'm pretty sure that the HDPT "bypass" works for 540p as well, and it somehow preserves it's progressive scanning as well.

Regrettably, a 480p computer input seems to behave exactly the same as 480p from the DVD players. I.e. the HDPT "bypass" does not seem to work on it so far.
post #20 of 176
Wow ... lots of good info on this thread. I've been rather busy lately and not keeping up ... looking forward to digesting some of this.
post #21 of 176
Thread Starter 
Another thing.... with the "HDPT bypass" enabled, I'm not getting the vertical phasing I used to see on 60Hz 540p signals anymore. So perhaps that is a product of the old MID/DRC processing as well.

Montreal you are da bomb! :)

Now if I could just figure out some way to scale this "new 540p" to better fit the screen.... ;)
post #22 of 176
Thread Starter 
Another interesting wrinkle....

While the "HDPT bypass" appears to have no effect on 480p from my DVD players or the Standard 720x480p HDTV mode from my computer, 848x480p does seem to be effected by it. It appears as though 848x480p may be upconverted by the TV to 540p. It registers as 1080i in the service menu, and seems to work the same as 960x540p with regard to the HDPT settings....

HDPT=1
848x480p = interlaced scan (1080i?)

HDPT=0
848x480p = progressive scan (540p?), no flicker, better PQ IMO.

Perhaps the greater horizontal resolution is what's kicking it into 540p upconversion. (?)

848x480p is still not as good as 960x540p though on my TV. So the upconversion is causing some jaggies, and so forth. Not bad though. The "new progressive 960x540p" may be the clearest computer image I've seen on my TV so far though. A little Clear Edge VM (velocity modulation) doesn't seem to hurt it too much either.
post #23 of 176
Quote:
Perhaps the greater horizontal resolution is what's kicking it into 540p up-conversion. (?)
Adu,

The XBR knows nothing about the horizontal resolution of a signal coming in through the components input (video5). It's just a continuous analog waveform.

The only thing that might tell the TV something about the QUALITY of this input signal is the time delay between successive horizontal and vertical pulses, and here I don't know if the timing changes just because you change the format in the video card of your PC.

On the other hand if the XBR is receiving the input via the DVI port (video7), then the DVI decoding chip may know a lot more about the resolution of the signal and pass along more information to the main CPU so that the DRC and MID can do a more intelligent conversion of the analog signal generated by the DVI decoding chip.

Based on what you've written so far, could DPSW stand for DISABLE PROGRESSIVE SWITCH?

Initially you issued a warning about this switch and how it seems to cut off the final CRT drive from the input signals and the on-screen menu. Would you now be prepared to say that when the switch is changed after selecting the appropriate input signal, then there is some advantage derived from this switch?
post #24 of 176
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure about that. On my TV, DPSW seems to disable all the normal "processed" signals, no matter what format they are. My suspiscion is that it may be disabling the circuit which converts all signals to your "1080.0001i". The HDPT bypass seems to work on my TV without changing the DPSW switch from the factory default. It's possibe that this may work differently on other TVs though, perhaps the 34XBR2's for example.

I'm sorry to keep postponing answering your quetsions, BTW, but I just can't get over the difference this HDPT option makes on 540p!!!! :D :D

All of the processing/enhancment jazz on the picture seems to be removed, and there's nothing left but a pristine progressive image. It is truly stunning to behold!!!

This is an amazing find, Montreal!!! If I could figure out a way to remove the overscan on this new picture, I think I could almost use this as a fulltime computer display!
post #25 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
My suspiscion is that it may be disabling the circuit which converts all signals to your "1080.0001i".
Actually that's wrong. Because as I've stated repeatedly, even the normal "processed" 480p scans progressively. I don't think DPSW is necessarily discriminating between progressive and interlaced signals. It just seems to disable all the normal "processed" signals, but it leaves the "bypassed" signals intact... on my TV anyway. As I said though, I left DPSW alone, at the factory default of 0. The only change I've made in the service menu to enable th bypass on my TV is OP/HDPT=0.

I am about as convinced as I think I could ever be that in it's normal configuration (before the HDPT and "bar fixes"), that pre-2003 Sony's like mine are performing additional internal A/D->D/A conversion/processing on all signals including 1080i, to keep the picture quality/handling uniform. And that this add'l processing is destructive to the PQ.

On my TV, HDPT seems to allow 540p/1080i to bypass this, revealing a more pure un-sweetened/un-enhanced image. Other folks mileage may vary though.

It's possible that changes like this could have other consequences (possibly unpleasant ones) either up or downstream from the HDPT switch, perhaps depending on variations in the TV's hardware. So anyone considering making this change should be aware that there may be some risks involved in doing it without technical supervision from Sony. 34XBR2 users may want to be particularly cognizant of this.

FWIW, people who've had a successful "bar fix" by a Sony tech are probably already reaping the benefits of this "bypass" on 1080i/540p.
post #26 of 176
Adu,

The reason why 540p works as well as 1080i is that in bypass mode, both signals look identical to the CRT drive circuit, except that with 1080i, the first horizontal line of the second frame starts slightly later than the first horizontal line of the first frame. This creates the interleaved effect of having 1080 distinct lines for a denser image.

With 540p, you have the same volume of information as 1080i delivered to the screen each second, except that you only have 540 distinct lines.

540 distinct lines should give a less dense image than 1080 distinct lines, albeit an image that has less motion artifacts.

Is that what you're seeing?

p.s. Thanks for the CHAPEAU in your previous posting.
post #27 of 176
Thread Starter 
(Mon plaisir. :) )

The progressive may be part of it. But I think the 33.75kHz picture just looks better defined overall with the HDPT bypass. (And it seems to work better with VM.)

I noticed some of these differences with 1080i on the DVI player too. The difference is even more apparent with the sharp graphics of a computer input though, and I'm not surprised now why my eyes have been strained by the older image. The Trinitron grille still gives me some problems, but with the "new" DVI 540p, the picture is much more pleasing to look at.

We're getting into nuances here now, but one subtle difference between 540p and 1080i is that the progressive scan of 540p makes a more well-defined "dot" on my TV. The better-defined scanlines of the progressive scan may counter-balance the strong vertical lines in the Trinitron grille a little better than 1080i. However, I have the feeling that users running a computer input at full interlaced 1080i would be very pleased with the result as well, due to the diminished "processing" alone.

I haven't forgotten about your earlier questions, BTW. I'll try get back to those in a moment.
post #28 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I agree that HDPT must be changed only when the selected input is RF (Video 1?).
I think the RF input is the VHF/UHF coaxial input. It's indicated simply as "TV" in the service menu on my TV. So it's not the same as Video 1. Video 1 is the first S-video/Composite input on my TV.
Quote:
When you changed DPSW, were you doing this with the input set to Video 1 (RF)?
Nope, initially I tried it on Video 7, the DVI input, so I could see what happened when I switched the DVI player to 480p, 720p and 1080i. I also tried switching it on the RF and Components inputs to and got the same result. It blanked the 480i/480p picture on all the inputs I tried.
Quote:
Changing the DPSW is only required for the HA3 chassis (XBR2) and is only done along with HDPT while video5 (components) is selected. For the DA4 chassis (XBR800/HS500), only HDPT is changed and only while video1(RF) is selected.
Understood. And that seems to jibe with results on my 34XBR800 as well.
Quote:
Did you loose the on-screen display at the same time as you changed DPSW?
Most definitely. Changing DPSW on any of the normal "processed" signals blanks the entire screen, erasing everything, including the service menu's OSD. Hence my earlier warnings about this.
Quote:
The on-screen display text is injected into the video path at the CRT drive circuit, after the DRC and MID.
Curious. I'm not sure you can conclude from this that DPSW is cutting off the picture at the CRT driver circuit though. The SM OSD may need to piggy-back on some kind of video "carrier wave" to be visible, which could originate much earlier in the TV's circuits, perhaps in or before the DRC or MID circuits. And perhaps this "carrier" is also cut off by DPSW well before the CRT driver.

And again, the "bypassed" 540p/1080i signals seem to be immune to the DPSW setting. They stay "on" regardless of how it's set on my TV... and they do carry the SM OSD as well.
Quote:
I'm still curious as to why DPSW is changed on the KD34XBR2 but not on the XBR800.
Not a clue on that one. Maybe the hardware bar patch works a bit differently on the 34XBR2 though, since it's a bit older. As you've pointed out a couple times, there seems to be a little variation in how the bar fix works from model to model.
post #29 of 176
Thread Starter 
I think I died and went to heaven. :)

The picture on my measly, flea-bitten, abused, open-itemed, direct-view Sony CRT now looks almost as good as a $5000 LCD or plasma. :)

I'm not worthy, Montreal. :)

... and Uzun I should add, since you weren't willing to let this issue go. And everyone else at AVS... for that matter. :)
post #30 of 176
Quote:
I was one of the unbelievers regarding the different circuitry on the 2002 and 2003s.
Does the 2003 HS510 model have this different circuitry, or are we talking about the XBR910 series only?

What about the HS30 and HW40 models from the 2002 era? Are they the same chassis as the XBR800 and HS500 and can benefit from this HD Processing Transformation bypass.
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