New York, NY - TWC - Page 308

Exactly. The upconversions to 1080i or 720p require that higher bit rate.

When the original source is 480i, usually programs appear 4:3 on HD channels after upconversion to 1080i or 720p. There are tricky exceptions. Watched a nature show from WNET HD last night about a lake system near Croatia. It originally was 480i 16:9, and after upconversion the remarkably crisp images fooled me during an earlier viewing into thinking it was true 1080i. But upconversion to 1080i from 480i can't provide details to make all images look like true 1080i. So shots of distant forests at the end of this PBS nature show revealed how fuzzy finer details were, distinguishing between SD and true 1080i.

Shows such as NBC's Leno are recorded (tape/disks) and broadcast at 1080/60i (true HD). They're crisper (as well as live 1080i or 720p) because there's no intervening conversions from film. Also, filming captures images at 24 frames per second (fps) and some programming is taped at 24PsF (segmented frame), emulating filming. Motion with 24 fps capture (1/48-sec exposure/frame) is blurred more than with documentaries/travelogues, live TV, Leno, etc. captured at 60 'snapshots' (540-line half-frames) per second for 1080/60i. Elaborated on some of this in a Blu-ray forum post . -- John

Thanks John,

Amazingly it's the commercials (the guys who are paying the bills) that look so bad during ABC's HD programs - unless, of course, the ad is also HD.

Just a minor correction. Philly at Indy would have been on Fox. For games that fall under the Fox/CBS contracts, it is the road team that determines whether Fox (NFC) or CBS (AFC) broadcasts the game. So, every team will have home games broadcast by both networks over the course of the season...
-JMP

really you see I always thought it was the other way. I thought the home TV stays with their home network, But now that you have said this their is a shift of inter league games that end up playing on the other network. Are all interleague games treated this way?

Either way the Jets and the lowly texans get an HD game, what an early christmas present!!

Thanks John for the tech savy explanation but heros is starting in 3 minutes so I have to watch that is it's HD glory. I will get back to you with a response at 1001

I can't exactly remember which STATION it was (i think it was ABC), but i =did= switch on Sunday to the SD version of an event that was NOT heard in DD5.1 on the HD channel, despite saying it *was* DD on my AV receiver....and indeed, the SD version DID have full surround....there WAS rear speaker sound, whereas the HD version had NO rear (and no center).

The SD channel (channels 4 and 7) include only stereo sound which comes in as Dolby Digital 2.0. My receiver uses ProLogic to derive a center and a surround channel. However, to my eyes the SD channels don't have the video quality of the HD channels (704 and 707) even though the video is upconverted from 480i. Of course for the Tonight Show I want to see it in HD, so I have to adjust to its sound error by switching my receiver to analog input and use ProLogic decoding.

Incidently, I connect my 8300HD by both the digital audio connection to get 5.1-channel sound and also the left and right channel analog audio connections. This allows me to switch to analog audio when appropriate.

Cynthia

Take a look at http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/ for more information about the Fox/CBS coverage of the NFL. The rules are very confusing, but carriage by Fox or CBS is definitely decided by the road team.
-JMP

I am with you Cynthia the locals look far superior on the HD channels even when it is a SD show. It isn't even close in PQ between 4-704, 2-702, 7-707 etc. I would have to live with the sound issue on the HD channels when the lower SD channels look so bad.

At least you have an option, to combat your problem. But all these issues are good learning tools for when I decide to buy a TV for the living room.

Thanks for the site JMP, I always wanted to know how the broadcast rights are divided for inter-league NFL games. I will read it and decipher it and let you know what is my interpretation.

Nothing to add other than I thought Monday night football looked very good last night. In the world of ok, so so, and great hd broadcasts, it was definitely a great.

Agree, as per usual, ESPN HD MNF looks great.
The glistening snow on the field helped spark up the picture too. Kind of like the way the wet down streets do in a Hollywood production.

Some advice needed, please, thanks!

I haven't touched aspect controls on either my 16:9 plasma or the 8300 HD cable box in months. Suddenly the picture looks squeezed. I don't know what might have changed, except:

As I posted on the SA 8300HD forum, my box has been deleting saved shows at random even with room to spare on the drive, so I called TWCNYC and they sent me a 'new signal'. It seems this aspect problem has been happening since then.

Nothing I can do seems to change the problem. When I try to get the aspect to normal, it seems squeezed. Is something wrong with my default settings? I have the cable box setting at widescreen 16:9, with 4:3 sidebar. For the plasma (Panasonic 42PHD8UK) usually we have it at normal. The picture is definitely distorted when I try to use these settings now.

Any help appreciated, thanks.

Anyone know what bleeping channel hte Knicks are on tonight?

Can not find MSG2

Same here! I tried to find it, and gave up.

I guess i "spoke" too soon! They've picked it up in progress(?) on MSG HD now. Not sure if it's "live" or not, but there it is.

I know I'm late to answer (and doesn't matter now anyway) but it was Ch. 60.

MSG2 and FSNY2 are almost always either 51 (TV Guide Channel) or 60 (CSPAN2).
(fortunately no more Knicks or Rangers home games on MSG2)

Why didn't you try going to MSG.com to find out the channel?

I hoped the reason MSG was taking over the game in progress was becuase they'd have it in HD... The halftime show (first thing i saw) even had an MSGHD banner behind Mike Breen and Walt Fraiser.....

It's good to know in general, tho, so....thanks! I made a note on my calendar for future reference.

dude, it's the Knicks, i didn't find it and then i didn't care

I just like to know what channels to surf as fast as i can

Yeah, MSG2 usually is on 60 or 51. On Saturday the Ranges were on MSG2, but TimeWarner Cable Brooklyn forgot to flip the switch on Channel 60. Instead of showing the Rangers vs Pittsburgh game they were showing the Knicks game on both MSG and MSG2. I logged into a NY Rangers Bulletin Board and asked if the game was on MSG2 and people in Manhattan and Staten Island said yes. I then called TW of Brooklyn and told them they had a programming problem. The operator was telling me that the game would be on at 7:30 I told her that it was now 7:15 and there should be the Rangers pre-game show. I then told her that TW of Manahttan and SI had it, she responds back that TW Brooklyn has different programming. BS. I ask to speak to a supervisor and sit on hold for about 30 minutes, when the game finally gets switched on to MSG2 around 7:40, missing 10 minutes of the game. What was also an insult was that the game was also being carried by HDNet, but due to blackout restrictions, it wasn't on. Blackout rules are dumb!!

Don't really have time to get into trouble shooting, but the first thing you should always try when you have a problem with aspect ration(i'm assuming you have a wide screen tv) is go to one of the high def chan that is always broadcast wide screen (DiscoveryHD, or PBSHD are what I use) and try to determine if the picture looks correct. If the picture fits your screen perfectly with the box set to normal, not zoom, or stretch, then its likely not a problem with the box, if it looks off then you have a starting point to work off of. Try that and see how it looks.

Squeezed in which direction (horizontal or vertical)? On what "kind" of channel, HD or SD? And what happens when you switch to a similar kind of channel that you see an issue with? Also, are you aware that there are times when the channel sends out a horizontally distorted image... as in taking a 4:3 image and stretching it to 16:9? TNT is notorious for doing that. If it's sent that way, there absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I think there are 2 locations where you can swap your box, you might want to get a new box to deal with your "deleting shows" issue.

Thanks. I turned on the remote and the PIP was active (we NEVER turn it on) -- weird -- seems like settings on the remote change every time I turn it off. I did as you suggested, and the picture did fill the screen (in HD). I then hit the show guide, because the guide has been extremely squeezed since this problem has happened, and it still looked like that. I then checked 'video source' to see the box aspect ratio, and sure enough it said 16:9>stretched, even though I had set it to normal with last use. What gives? I set it back to normal and all seems OK now. Again, it's as if the remote has a mind of its own. I'll remember to check HD pictures first from now on.

Riverside Guy,

We should have lunch sometime! I'm wondering where you are! I can see the river from the roof of our building on 145 and St. Nick. OT: Our building has announced they're going to permit DirecTV -- I don't know what to think about that.

It's SD channels that appear weird, althought the guide looks squished what looks like ertically, as in smooshed in from the sides. It was the guide that really alerted me to the issue. As I just posted, I checked on an HD channel, changed the box aspect ratio from stretched to normal (even though it was on normal last I saw), and things seem fine now. Maybe I have a short in the remote AND a bad box. Perfect storm!

I'm doing a test of the deleting shows issue. I've got most things set up with diamonds, as in manual erase. Then I have other less-important shows just waiting for the box to delete, if it dares.

Thanks for the help! Gosh it's amazing how much time and energy we put into this stuff. I love this forum.

OK, here's an addendum to my previous post. It thought all was fine for live TV, but on going to a saved SD show (ESPN), once again, the broadcast seemed squeezed vertically, with extra bars on the side in addition to the usual gray bars on the side. This is definitely a new glitch -- never had this problem before.

In going to general settings>aspect ratio, what should be the normal settings for my 16:9 screen in regards to 4:3 picture? In playing with it, 'stretch' seems most dealable.

I'm a little confused as to why this has become all of a sudden an issue after 10 months.

My feeling is that any distortion in the picture is unacceptable. However, I do use the ability to "distort" the picture in 2 specific instances. Remember back to your 4:3 all SD CRT days, there were a number of TV shows that were broadcast letterbox, meaning the image was a 16:9 one playing on a 4:3 screen. Black bars top and bottom. On a typical HD set, that will result in black bars on all 4 sides (because it's a SD channel, my TV has been setup that it goes into 4:3 mode for SD channels, more on that later). Prime example is many of the SciFi channel shows (Dr. Who & Battlestar Galactica). For such shows, I use the zoom function (on the TV, not the 8300). The image will fill th screen, nothing is distorted but I do loose a tiny bit of picture all around.

My second scenario is kind of a hack. When I first got my HD, I noticed a lot of sidebars being light gray. My understand was it was specifically done that way mostly for plasma owners; supposedly using back bars for extended periods would leave "burn-in" telltales, something I'm not concerned with as I use a LCD display. I found the gray HUGELY distracting. Like it kept shouting at me. As I watch mostly in a darkened room, black bars at times "disappear" from my consciousness. Anyway, if I tune to a SD channel and set the TV for 4:3 mode, what I get is a picture that inside the TVs 4:3 box looks vertically elongated as the sidebars DO appear inside that 4:3 box. So I then set the 8300 to stretch SD content. Bingo, black sidebars and no distortion in the image.

This last one is an unspecified hack/trick.

In summary, my TV is set for 4:3 when tuned to a SD channel and 16:9 when tuned to a HD channel. The 8300 is set for 16:9 HD, 4:3 stretch. Two caveats, sometimes the "4:3 stretch" setting for the cable box reverts to 4:3 normal, so I get a distorted picture, vertically elongated. Second, CBS HD sends out 4:3 content with gray sidebars added at the head end. No way to eliminate those.

Like I said, TNT is one channel that will aggressively distort their images; notice that every commercial fills the screen? Well, they are all horizontally stretched. Notice how a LOT of content they show seems to have short, squat, fat people? Old TV shows AND I've even seen movies shown that way. The other area I've caught is NBC HD, specifically in local news. The made a bog deal about being "news in HD" and while they have never mucked with in the studio stuff, I DO see a lot of externally shot segments displaying horizontally stretched. The pisser is that some of those shots sure look like they came from a HD camera in the first place!

You must be in a tall building, I did some casual checking into satellite. The DTV bird is around 232 degrees, about 30 degrees up. I DO have a reasonable view of it sneaking between 2 much taller buildings than mine (I live on the top/10th floor). Anyway, my understanding is that they expect you to use a OTA antenna to get all the local HD channels... while I haven't actually bought an antenna to try it, when the signal came from our beloved towers, forget it. My guess is that I have even more obstructions to the Empire State bldg. than I did to the WTC. Still, competition for TWC is ALWAYS a good thing!

ok from what I am reading you seem like you need a new remote or to be more careful. More careful. I have the same prblem I sometimes change the cahannel and at the same time press the bottom on right near the 0, when you press that button you change the STB output from strech, to normal, to full or which ever one you were not on. This could be the problem that would give you lines on top and on side or both. You woiuldn't be able to notice the change because once you change the channel the infor about the change dissappears. You next solution is the remote itself. We all know we have drop these things many times. How long have you had it? It just might be times for a new one. Changing them are a breeze just go to TWC and they switch it with no question asked. If you have another TV just use that remote on that tv and see if you have the same problem. Godd luck barrianne

Any word what new HD CH. will replace INHD2?

Rumors were that Universal HD would be moved to 722, and we would be getting WWOR-DT on 709.

While it is important to have all the HD locals on our system.... I'd rather have ESPN2-HD (or even FSNY-HD)

that is miserable news, I am all for more HD plus it is a local so we should have it anyway. But what the h@#$ do they show in HD on my9 other then yankees sames during the summer time. A bunch of primetime soaps. BOOO HISSSSS! Moving Universal out it current sot of Channels just messes with my presets.
Where did you read this info?
At least TWC is making good on their promise of new channels by the end of the year. 2 that went full time and 2 brand new ones so far this fall. I am still shocked they haven't gotten FSNY, but what do they carry now? Which team is missing?