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A better grey screen - Page 7

post #181 of 918
If I were you, since you're leaning toward the Dalite material, I'd build the frame and mount the material. I'd also buy a 4x8 sheet of something at your local HD or Lowe's and a quart of Kilz2 primer and a quart of the Misty Evening. It will cost you maybe another $30. Don't worry about mounting the painted board until after you've evaluated it (don't forget to use Avia, Video Essentials, or the new Sound & Vision DVD to calibrate each surface).

You could be the test subject for comparing the two surfaces here since I haven't been able to find a direct comparison between the two. It would take a little time and effort for the painting, but it would also give you lots of experience calibrating the TW100. Since there are so many tweaking options on it, (to paraphrase Martha) 'this is a very good thing.' And you can help future generations of DIYers with this $100 decision.
post #182 of 918
FYI, as it has been said often before, these pics can look too dark depending on your monitor's settings. At work my pics are much darker than at home simply because of the fluorescent lighting. I assure you that on-screen, the images are bright and have sufficient contrast to make me happy.

And the direct comparison between my Gladiator1 shot and CMRA's and BreakStuff's shows either that I must like a darker picture overall or our digital cameras are very different, but the contrast level using ME does improve matters. And I maintain that Avia calibration looks perfect on my screen.

Just goes to show that a number of factors affect the screen shots posted anywhere online, unless all pics are taken by the same camera under identical conditions. In other words, use them for informal comparisons, but don't bet the farm on them.
post #183 of 918
Scoob:

Very good point about the differences in digital snapshots. I have a Canon S20 PowerShot 3.3 and have not been able to get good enough screen shots to post here.

And I also agree with you about the ME. I finally got my AVIA disk yesterday (Bravo D1 DVD with DVI-D arrived the day before) and watched Gladiator last night (on SONY HS10) with ME drywall. Astounding, just as good as your snapshots show. I am painting the rest of my cellar HT today with ME (actually, a True Value ripoff mixture) just to mute some of the reflective light I am getting from the screen (current walls are white.) For $15-60/sq.ft. I think the SS or Firehawk or HCCV screens are going to wait a long time! I have spent a total of $35 on this "screen"!

John in Northern NY
post #184 of 918
How about trying the Canon EOS Digital Rebel? Its suppose to be more SLR than digicam.
post #185 of 918
CMRA....

When you say you have to calibrate your pj to match it with the misty paint... what type of changes are you exactly making?

Contrast
Brightness
Color
Tint
RGB gains/bias
etc...

I'm not asking so much which parameters you're changing, but how you are changing them. I just want to get an idea of what level of calibration is required.
post #186 of 918
I am not CMRA but I am sure your changes will depend upon your projector, ambient ,etc.

For a new HS10 and misty paint, on smooth drywall, very dark ambient, 100" diagonal, from the factory defaults, with the AVIA disk:

Contrast - up to MAX
Brightness - down about 20%
Color - up 4%
Hue - to green 2%
Sharpness - up about 15%

Hope this helps. Yes, the Brightness going down surprised me. A second coat of Misty is going on today and these figures may change with that. Like I said, with different pj's and ambient this will all change.

John in Northern NY
post #187 of 918
John,

I have an HS10 as well, can you translate that into exact settings rather than %'s?

Thanks,

Eric.
post #188 of 918
It seems like it's simple user level adjustments which at least warrants a try. I'll wait and see if CMRA is calibrating using any different parameters.

John...

Are you making these adjustments by eye. If by test disk.. which patterns are you using. Maxing out the contrast on your hs10 can't be good. You're more than likely crushing your whites big time.
post #189 of 918
The calibration is done using the Avia or similar DVD disc. The settings for just about everything are included on the disc with instructions on what parameter you're changing and how to find it on your display device. The idea is to get as close to NTSC standard color as possible with appropriate brightness and contrast levels.

The magnitude of the changes depends on all of the things actionweber mentions and will vary between each device and with each person's preferences/capabilities. The differences between my old Dalite and the new ME screen were surprising to me - and I love to tweak. My white level and black levels both needed to be changed dramatically to attain the calibrated picture I desired.

The best solution is to get one of these calibration discs and watch it, taking notes on some of the tips given. Then run through the settings and manipulate your display device to try to match the standard. You may not agree with all of the new settings, but you can always change them to match with your desired picture. The discs help you focus on how changing this parameter might affect others and they give you the necessary patterns to measure against.
post #190 of 918
John,

I chose the route of painting a deep blue throughtout the rest of our dedicated theater to enhance the perceived contrast and dull any reflective light. More details on the My Home Theater section of projectorcentral.com Note the slightly different picture of the LOTR ring posted there from my earlier post here. Part of the difference is the one on pjcentral is from about 2 seconds later than the one posted here (just as the flame engulfs the ring). The other big difference is the screen. ME simply rocks!

While the room looks like a cave during the day, the amount of ambient light is down significantly. And the whole point is for it to look like a cave.

Anyhoo, I can recommend a darker color for the remainder of the room's surfaces

Scoob
post #191 of 918
Eameres:

Sure, but let me get a second coat on and recalibrate first. One or two more days. I can already see a slight difference in color after the first coat dried for a few days.

I used %'s because he did NOT have an HS10. BTW, I am finding the misty paint great for reducing reflective light from the screen and other small ambient sources. I had a bright white plastic-over-fiberglass hung ceiling with 2x4 panels and white grid. Painted the misty over the panels and grid and VOILA! Reflective light gone! And the wife is much happier than if I had used the flat black I threatened to use!

pocoloco:

See scoob's response. Heis right-on. My initial calibration was done exactly to all the NTSC standards on the AVIA disk. I plan to recalibrate to the same standards after a second coat is very dry. Then I will use it for a week and tweak to our preferences. The only thing it looks like I may do is mute the blue a little. The THALO GREEN pigment in ME, which is actually a blue-green, definitely enhances the blue tints. But I will wait for more paint and one week's brain adjustment!

John in Northern NY
post #192 of 918
I'm still very new to this, but its great to read through all these alternative colors / methods.

Thanks everyone for the hard work!
-Andrew
post #193 of 918
Eameres:

My "Misty Evening" paint was a gallon of True Value EZ-Kare flat ceiling, bright white with 24 B (Lamp Black) and 4 D (Thalo Green) pigments. After a second coat on drywall and AVIA calibration (via a Bravo DVD player with DVI-D output) in a very dark room my HS10 (33 hours on the lamp) settings are:

Contrast - MAX
Brightness - 32
Color - 52
Hue - 51
Sharpness - 46

Personal preference settings for movies are:

Black Level Adj. - Off
Color Temp - Low
Cinema Black - On

Hope this helps.

John in Northern NY
post #194 of 918
Eameres:

After a second coat of my Misty Evening paint (1 gal. True Value EZ-Kare flat ceiling, bright white with 24-B and 4-D pigment) and AVIA calibration in a very dark room, my HS10 settings (with 33 hours on the lamp) are:

Contrast - MAX
Brightness - 32
Color - 52
Hue - 51
Sharpness - 46

My personal preferences for movies are:

BLack Level Adj - Off
Color Temp - Low
Cinema Black - On

Hope this helps.

John in Northern NY

OOps - sorry for the double post. My screen froze on the first one and I didn't think it worked. DOH.
post #195 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by pocoloco
CMRA....

When you say you have to calibrate your pj to match it with the misty paint... what type of changes are you exactly making?

Contrast
Brightness
Color
Tint
RGB gains/bias
etc...

I'm not asking so much which parameters you're changing, but how you are changing them. I just want to get an idea of what level of calibration is required.

I wish I had a effective answer for you. Different PJs, environments, and source hardware will dramatically effect your outcome. As was witnessed earlier by readers of this thread my 'settings' produced wretched results on Breakstuff's setup. That aside, boosting the contrast and gamma while reducing the brightness is almost mandatory going from white to grey. Color adjustments I leave up to you.
Just know, when it looks right, it is right. Practice makes perfect. Learn to trust your eyes.
post #196 of 918
Has anyone tried to project on a blind??

I'm not sure this is the correct word, we call these "stores" in French, I'm refering to the things that are on a roll, that you pull down to block the light in a room. They have of a plastic feeling to them, the color are often a pale gray and they occult light. To the touch they sure seem like commercial screens.

Its while I was going around to see different projectors, that I checked the screens and was impress as to how much they look and feel like "blinds".

There's many stores around selling these, and they can cut them to size.
post #197 of 918
Indeed, many people use similar material. If you search on 'Blackout' material (referred to as BO in many posts) you'll probably find hundreds of hits in this forum.

I believe much of what is sold on eBay as screen material is actually BO. Lots of folks, including people on this thread, paint over the BO with Misty Evening and other concoctions for better viewing results.

So you're not too far off base here.
post #198 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by pocoloco
It seems like it's simple user level adjustments which at least warrants a try. I'll wait and see if CMRA is calibrating using any different parameters.


Since everybody's setup is different I find it futile to give my settings out. Mine are even adjusted on a per DVD basis. One universal measure when going from white to grey is to adjust for luminance. For this you'll need to boost the contrast and gamma, and reduce your brightness.

In the meantime, how about a troublesome screenshot? Some have complained about the blue. Heck, what blue. What about the yellow? Same screen, same settings. "Talk to me Harry!"
LL
post #199 of 918
CMRA, give me the time of this shot, and I'll snap a shot off the same DVD, but I can't go through all of Moulin Rouge to find the same frame!

I'm just trying to be helpful.
post #200 of 918
John:

Isn't having the contrast maxed out all the way not good for the picture quality? I'm not sure why you didn't lower the contrast and raise the brightness more.

Jimmy
post #201 of 918
Thread Starter 
Let me field that one. Too much brightness simply washes out the picture. Your blacks suffer greatly. Increase contrast and gamma and avoid the wash out.
post #202 of 918
CMRA is exactly right. Those settings I gave out were after AVIA calibration to NTSC standards. Within the other operating parameters I listed. I use that setting for DVD movies with "normal" levels of black and bright. But, I have programmed two other settings into my USER buttons on the HS10. One is set with Cinema Black off and higher brightness settings for viewing analog TV (ugh - I don't get much HDTV up here.) The other is set for darker-than-normal DVD movies. It too has CB off but no brightness adjustment. The point is that EVERYTHING CHANGES! It all depends upon your own operating parameters, ambient conditions and personal preferences. That is the beauty of digital projectors, whether they are LCD or DLP. Start out with calibration and tweak from there to whatever looks great for you!

John in Northern NY
post #203 of 918
Hi,

I´m from Portugal, and here we don't have any glidden paint retailer, so i went to their site and i discover the color code for Misty evening.

That will be. 30BG 64/036.

But, there is a problem. Here in Europe, the color codes are regulated by NCS (Natural colour system) and so i ask if any of you can tell me ao can i make the correspondence between colour codes.

Vinny
post #204 of 918
Hello Vinny,

Talvez posso ajudar?

An easier route would be to try to acquire some "Faux Finish" Silver Metallic Glaze and mix it gradually into a Pure White Flat. Roll each mix onto 3 or 4 peices (.4m x .4m) of Plywood or Gypsium Wallboard and shoot an image onto all of them as they sit side to side and touching. You'll zone into what's best pretty quickly.

A boa Sorte! Conte-me de seus resultados.

Maurice



< Oh yeah....Portuguese provided by http://www.freetranslation.com >
post #205 of 918
I will do that !

Obrigado.

I post my results ASAP.
post #206 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by vinnypt
Hi,

I´m from Portugal, and here we don't have any glidden paint retailer, so i went to their site and i discover the color code for Misty evening.

That will be. 30BG 64/036.

But, there is a problem. Here in Europe, the color codes are regulated by NCS (Natural colour system) and so i ask if any of you can tell me ao can i make the correspondence between colour codes.

Vinny

Earlier in this thread there is a screenshot of the paint label. The codes are printed on the label.
post #207 of 918
I have already seen it.

But, there are no NCS code.
In Europe we don't have any correspondence to that codes.

I have sent an email to glidden and they answer that they dont have any code correspondence to NCS.
post #208 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by vinnypt
I have already seen it.

But, there are no NCS code.
In Europe we don't have any correspondence to that codes.

I have sent an email to glidden and they answer that they dont have any code correspondence to NCS.

Since Glidden responds via eMail perhaps they could send you a color swatch. If so, take the color swatch to your local paint retailer and have them computer match the shade.
post #209 of 918
I looked through this thread, so I'm hoping I didn't miss it... is there an exact color code I should give them or should I just ask for Misty Evening?

-MP
post #210 of 918
See page 8 of the thread for a picture of the base and color code. Will be giving this a whirl myself as I plan to also make a HCCV DIY screen.

Jeff
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