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A better grey screen - Page 8

post #211 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Jscopus
See page 8 of the thread for a picture of the base and color code. Will be giving this a whirl myself as I plan to also make a HCCV DIY screen.

Jeff

I for one would be most interested in your direct comparison results with HCCV. I await your findings with great anticipation. CMRA
post #212 of 918
Is there a way to use a material screen (like BO cloth) and paint it? Or should I just try and get a solid backing like Doright or Polywall? I don't have a sprayer, so would have to roll it on. My problem is getting a solid screen that is big enough. I know the Parkland is, but the other stuff sadly isn't at 48 inches.

-MP
post #213 of 918
Quote:


Originally posted by madpoet
Is there a way to use a material screen (like BO cloth) and paint it?

You can paint BO cloth, you just need to put a couple coats of primer on first. It's also a little harder to roll than on something like MDF or parkland, but it's possible.
post #214 of 918
Would you recommend painting it before stretching it over the frame or after? I would hate for the wetness of the paint to loosen the fabric once it is already stretched.

-MP
post #215 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by eameres
CMRA, give me the time of this shot, and I'll snap a shot off the same DVD, but I can't go through all of Moulin Rouge to find the same frame!

I'm just trying to be helpful.

It's been so long I'm confused myself. If your talking about the 'Satine and Christian' back lit stage shot, it's either in the last chapter or the one before it, obviously at the end of the movie. When I find time for more testing I'll make sure to write down the h-m-s for future reference. BTW, I should have a new 'silver' screen to compare against sometime this month.
post #216 of 918
Quote:


Originally posted by madpoet
Is there a way to use a material screen (like BO cloth) and paint it? Or should I just try and get a solid backing like Doright or Polywall? I don't have a sprayer, so would have to roll it on. My problem is getting a solid screen that is big enough. I know the Parkland is, but the other stuff sadly isn't at 48 inches.

-MP

How big do you want to go?

Gator-board comes in 60"x96" sizes and is recommended by Ken from Goo Systems for use with goo paint.
post #217 of 918
Quote:


Originally posted by CMRA
Too much brightness simply washes out the picture. Your blacks suffer greatly. Increase contrast and gamma and avoid the wash out.

And increasing contrast and gamma clips whites in the same way that increasing brightness clips blacks.

All the screenshots are great people but why doesn't anyone ever post screenshots of SMPTE color bars, greyscale patterns, etc? Could be a lot more useful in making judgements than yet another picture of Nicole Kidman's face.
post #218 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by dpadair
All the screenshots are great people but why doesn't anyone ever post screenshots of SMPTE color bars, greyscale patterns, etc? Could be a lot more useful in making judgements than yet another picture of Nicole Kidman's face.

Well, for starters, she looks alot better. Next, we adjust for fleshtones. (When you get the fleshtones right...) Lastly, I don't know if there is a camera made that can capture the entire greyscale. It would just prove the limitations of our equipment. On the other hand, I/we would certainly welcome your screenshots. For everyone's benefit, please post yours.
post #219 of 918
Truthfully, although I love the movie, for those who haven't seen Moulin Rouge, you have to bear in mind that it has some very creative lighting and cinematography.

It's a great test, but make sure you are familiar with it. If you haven't seen it on your own screen, I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions based on a screen shot.

Just so I don't seem anti-CMRA or anti-ME, for the record, as of right now, Misty Evening is my favorite one step, roll it on screen paint. I congratulate CMRA on a great find!

Eric.
post #220 of 918
CMRA, how did you pick Misty Evening and how many other grays did you try before that?
post #221 of 918
Quote:


Originally posted by christer W.
So if you calibrate correctly with Avia, shouldn't the colors look the same regardless of the screen color?

If a screen is colored in any way it will be impossible to achieve perfect colors. But that may still be ok.
post #222 of 918
Hi,

Today a have painted my screens with 4 vertical bars, each one of a diferent grey.

Tomorrow, i will test the sreen with my Infocus SP4800 and I'll post the results and the best key of grey in NCS Code.

Vinny
post #223 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by vinnypt
Hi,

Today a have painted my screens with 4 vertical bars, each one of a diferent grey.

Tomorrow, i will test the sreen with my Infocus SP4800 and I'll post the results and the best key of grey in NCS Code.

Vinny

This sounds good. However, after you adjust your projector for one shade of gray won't the other three suffer? Observe this image captured from Vutec's website. Viewed as is, who would want anything but, right? But, seriously, what white screen have you ever seen that looks like the one on the left? If the projector was adjusted for the white, what then would the silver look like? You get the point.
LL
post #224 of 918
That image is 100% accurate. Compared to matte white, the silverstar has gain like you would not believe.
post #225 of 918
I thought we were trying to discount the need for such extravagantly priced screens, ALL of which exhibit one specific serious drawback or another. ALL must have the PJs color corrected, some extensively. Some have severly reduced viewing angles. Others are designed to increase contrast, but reduce the light coming off the screen.. And ALL are hyped to the extreame by companies whose only concern is not to bring the minions an affordable solution, but to justify the customer spending a considerable amount just to view thier image.

Cumon......, straight up, for many years, the mantra of all screen MFGs was, "If they'll spend big for a Projector, then they'll spend big for the screen." Here's the truth of it; I've personally SEEN the R&D depts. where two different High End Screen Mfgs experiment on new screen surfaces. Without elaborating, It should be easy enough to ascertain from my previous posts here and elseware on the forum where the idea for using a wall to test paint componds came from.

Monkey see, monkey do..., that's the ticket.

Funny thing is, both incidents took place back in the mid 90's when there were no affordable PJs, and funnier still, I distinctly recall the head chief Guru of R&D of ____ state to me that the cost of the screens was reflected (...bad pun.) more by the overhead of the company itself that the screens Mfg cost, or the cost of distribution. I didn't really give a Rat's anus then because I couldn't justify trying to sell PJ based HTs to my Clients, who were in the "Mid Fi" range, and more than happy to have a 56" Pioneer RPTV. I was at both locals as part of a three state Engineer's Tour, the food was good, the Hotels first rate, and all the joints had air condidtioning.

It was only just under two years ago, more than 6 years later, when I suddenly had the opportunity to place a 20HD in a home in Memphis that I glanced at this Forum's HT Builder forum and read a post about a Grey Hawk screen being the bucoup chioce for the 20HD light cannon. I requested a sample of the screen material, and when I had it in my hand, everything in the past came back and I knew I could mimic that same company's R&D wizards. So I got some Grey paint .....and went on from there.

CRMA, your so right. The Vutec Image is skewed to sell screens. It DOES NOT tell an accurate story. It Hypes thier product. You'll see no mention of the detrimental aspects of ownership of such a screen.

eameres, the Vutec Silverstar may have gain out the kazoo, but to say that it represents a truthfull representation is stretching it intolerably thin. Buy one if you must, or at least go see one in person and report your findings to us all, but don't advocate the belief that if they put it on thier Website, it must be true. (...whose "Enhanced Grey" was that? I wonder?)

I distribute and sell a 'affordable' product that represents an advantage to a vastly wider market than all the Screen Mfgs put together, yet NEVER have I made more than the slightest mention of it on this or any Forum in respect for the Rules Of The Game". To assist others. Period.

Now let's get back to finding ways to have our cake and eat it too.
post #226 of 918
Quote:


Originally posted by dpadair
If a screen is colored in any way it will be impossible to achieve perfect colors. But that may still be ok.

Oh wow!

I guess we all might as well give it up!
post #227 of 918
Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
I thought we were trying to discount the need for such extravagantly priced screens, ALL of which exhibit one specific serious drawback or another. ALL must have the PJs color corrected, some extensively.

DIY painted screens have drawbacks and need color correction too (unless you have a white screen I suppose).

I have yet to read a plethora of posts that say this formula or that formula beats a $$$$ commercial screen. A few people have said that but if it were generally true a lot more would.

$$$$ screens exist for the same reason that $10,000 PJs exist. PEOPLE WILL BUY THEM. Even if you told them that they MIGHT be able to do better by mixing paint, building a frame, buying fabric, mounting it and spraying it how many people that can afford $5000 or more for a PJ are going to do that when they can just buy a $1000 screen?

That being said, my HVLP unit arrives on Thursday
post #228 of 918
CMRA, why did you go with the masonry/stucco paint instead of a regular wall paint?
post #229 of 918
MississippiMan, you are so right about why most of us are on this thread. Everything related to HT was new to me a few months ago. I spent $2300 on a new SONY HS10 after researching on other threads and am very happy with that decision. But I, for one, had no desire to spend as much on a screen as my pj. I am absolutely THRILLED with my picture quality after spending $35 on a True Value ripoff of CMRA's Misty Evening paint. HDTV and movies from my Bravo D1 are simply breathtaking after calibration and tweaking to the light grey drywall surface. Try it - you'll like it. And all you are out is a few bucks and a few hours if you decide later to spend thousands on those other screens.

John in Northern NY
post #230 of 918
Actonweber,

Well.........,

I was a little intense there. But I know wherein I speak.

dpadair, you said:

:quote: Even if you told them that they MIGHT be able to do better by mixing paint, building a frame, buying fabric, mounting it and spraying it how many people that can afford $5000 or more for a PJ are going to do that when they can just buy a $1000 screen? :unquote

.......and to that I say;
"One whole hellacious lot more of 'em if they only DID know."

You speculate on that. I deal with about 10 to 15 souls a month who each have more cash and a willingness to spend it than common sense should allow. That they hooked up with me, or to me through one of my Dealers may be pure chance, but since I am who I am and proffer what I know to whomever, I can only think of 2 or 3 individuals out of about 60+ in the last year who kept to thier previous mindthink and didn't accept sage advice that saved then big bucks. I mean BIG bucks.

The rich aren't rich because they like to spend, it's because they MAKE money, and don't waste it. Excepting a few who live to spend money, my 26 years at knocking heads with rich & poor alike has show that virtually everybody likes a good deal, and after they do find out about one, they'll settle for nothing less.

At CEDIA this year, the Show Floors were full of every imaginable overpriced toy. Everybody was sure about thier product being able to sustain ridiculously high profits because the Rich have always equated cost with quality and ease of acquistion with luxury before........ But there was an undercurrent there as strong as the Mississippi. (...forgive me.)

Mfg. Reps were aghast at how far prices had fallen. Forward thinking companies were introducing products that flew in the face of the CEDIA ideal, "Make 'Em Pay The Maximum For EVERYTHING" Gosh..., some geegaws were even simple, straightforward, and (gasp) inexpensive. The best of which were naturally....PROJECTORS! (...just you all wait!) A leeeetle teeny tiny 2100 lumen 2 Chip DLP wonder about 3" high, 7" deep, and 10" wide. 2.8 lbs. Price? $1700.00 wholesale. $2600.00 street. Just to start out with, no less.

ALL the most popular products were low priced versions of past high priced products. You could almost see it starting to make sense.

But most telling was a seminar given by that icon of Hype and Undue Expense, Monster Cable. There, in front of God & Everybody, the Rep admitted that across the entire industry, sales of expensive Hi Fi equipment, and hence connectors and wire, were severly depressed because of one major genre. Can you believe it...., Home Theaters In A Box! Yes, it seems that lowly idea has made such great inroads into Monster Products Dealer's customer base that Monster itself was feeling the pinch. And it was leaving a bleeding welt of loss of cash flow. So what was thier response? What was thier solution? Just more of the old mindthink. Sell 'em on Quality! Sell 'em on Service! Justify the expense! Then......., Sell 'em on our New Power Supplies! And for God's sake...Sell some more Wire and Cables!

Really, I kid you not!

My three accompanying Dealers and I fell out......, then went to thier refreshment suite and drank up all thier beer.

So don't ever doubt that Man's basic instinct isn't to conserve. When food was plentiful and the Cave's larder well stocked, Cro Mangon Man didn't waste energy or risk life & limb chasing Mammoths. Wealthy Neandrathals of today have already have seen thier caches raided by Corporate America, and so they are more than willing to spend less to get what they still find acceptable. They need only be retrained to be efficent, and to be presented with a viable alterative.

End point: The Rich shop the internet too for bargins, nickle & dime Contractors to death, and expect everything for almost nothing...if they can get it. Just like us poor folk have always done.
post #231 of 918
Quote:


Originally posted by dpadair
DIY painted screens have drawbacks and need color correction too (unless you have a white screen I suppose).


I never said that "most" didn't, but fur shur DIY screens don't cost $1000 +

The DIY screen I'm showing seems to be about the best I've ever created.
(...."created sounds a little insidious, doesn't it? Muwah ha ha!)

With no adjustment on any value excepting keystone, it's got the best color balance, contrast qualities, and viewing angle I've ever seen...on any screen. Yeah, I know..., strong words and what many might see as dubious claims, but soon tests will be made and then........we'll see.

Until then......., The Devil in me makes me do it!
LL
post #232 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan


The DIY screen I'm showing seems to be about the best I've ever created.
(...."created sounds a little insidious, doesn't it? Muwah ha ha!)

With no adjustment on any value excepting keystone, it's got the best color balance, contrast qualities, and viewing angle I've ever seen...on any screen. Yeah, I know..., strong words and what many might see as dubious claims, but soon tests will be made and then........we'll see.

Until then......., The Devil in me makes me do it!

This, I believe, is what the forum is all about: The open exchange of ideas and product towards a better more enjoyable home theater. Please don't stop the screenshots. In fact, how about some from the more popular titles such as Monsters, Fifth Element, Toy Story, Gladiator, etc for comparison purposes?
post #233 of 918
Okey Dokey..,

I've got about 9 hours at the show and all of the above.

Be careful what you ask for. By the time I'm through, my number of post might be 40 or 50 posts higher!
post #234 of 918
John (Actonweber):

I also have the Bravo D1 and Sony HS10 projector and so far I've been using an off white wall with good results.


Did you just paint your wall with the Gray color or is there more to it? Also, my HS10 is calibrated with the SMART III system. Would that make a difference in what color paint I would use?

Thanks. Jimmy
post #235 of 918
Wow, where are you guys getting hardboard at sizes greater than 4x8??

And how are you getting it home??

I'm going to have to settle for a sheet of 4x8 and cut it down to 4x5.6 for a maximum sized 76-80" 4:3 screen.

Picked up the Killz2 and ME and a roller for $19 at Home Depot a few minutes ago. Will be picking up the hardboard and WALKING IT HOME from DoIt Center a few blocks away.

Next thing to figure out is how I'm going to hang the hardboard from my ceiling in a "quick remove" fashion as it'll hang down in front of the 27" TV center.
post #236 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by dpadair
CMRA, how did you pick Misty Evening and how many other grays did you try before that?

Very ancient Chinese gambling secret...I took a chance. I was also in the process of upgrading my utility room so I had a ready made use for the leftover paint. Hence, the masonary base.
post #237 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by CZ Eddie


Next thing to figure out is how I'm going to hang the hardboard from my ceiling in a "quick remove" fashion as it'll hang down in front of the 27" TV center.

A few hinges and a little imagination should do the trick. Make sure you anchor into the ceiling beams/studs.
post #238 of 918
Thread Starter 
There's many a way to skin the screen 'out-of the-way' cat. I mentioned hinges before but didn't elaborate. One really neat feature by hinging a screen is not having to find a place to put it when you take it down. You simply swing it up out of the way when not in use. We hang our projectors from the ceiling to keep them out of the way, why not the screen too?
post #239 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Okey Dokey..,

I've got about 9 hours at the show and all of the above.

Be careful what you ask for. By the time I'm through, my number of post might be 40 or 50 posts higher!

The shootout begins? C'mon team 'silverstar', join in!!!
post #240 of 918
Thread Starter 
Finally, my long awaited 'silver' screen should arrive this week. It will go head to head against ME. It's also a commercial 'Torus' design. Can $2.00 worth of paint compete with it?
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