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A better grey screen - Page 9

post #241 of 918
What screen is this you are waiting on, CMRA?
post #242 of 918
CMRA,
Got the MR copy, but left for the show before receiving your email. I'm going to the site today to shoot your specific pics.

But while there amongst the crowd, I had the nerve to jump about and take some shots that seemed good ones.

BANG........!
LL
post #243 of 918
I don't like this guy.
LL
post #244 of 918
Gawd, they sing awful. Only the NK Eye candy makes it worth watching.
LL
post #245 of 918
Click....click...click.

Empty, but it was worth it.

Hopefully, you'll approve of one or two of 'em. after I post the other pic you posted, we can compare one on one.

THEN..I might start tweaking the PJ a tad.
LL
post #246 of 918
Somebody's viewing the above posted pics. How about a comment, pro or con?

Since the PJ is set on factory defalt, I'd entertain suggestions, if any. Gamma adj.? Reds or Greens? Perhaps a shotgun?

Gotta go run several leads, hopefully, I'll return with both the duplicate Pics and to some replies / or comments.

Also, coming VERY soon. Pics taken with 50-HD on standard "Old Chrome" Grey w/ flat white mixed, and 20-HD w/same. If possible, I also intend to try both on the SMG w/UPW -F screen being utilized with the pics posted here. Should provide a wide range of PJ attributes as opposed to the screen's display properties. All this will take some manipulation on my part to accomplish it before Wenesday Eve, but I'm a gonna try.

..having fun.
post #247 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Also, coming VERY soon. Pics taken with 50-HD on standard "Old Chrome" Grey w/ flat white mixed, and 20-HD w/same. If possible, I also intend to try both on the SMG w/UPW -F screen being utilized with the pics posted here. Should provide a wide range of PJ attributes as opposed to the screen's display properties. All this will take some manipulation on my part to accomplish it before Wenesday Eve, but I'm a gonna try.

..having fun.

You have my vote. Keep 'em coming. And do label which setup please. BTW, your screenshot captures look spot on. What camera are you using?
post #248 of 918
Just arrived home to find my own Red Head waiting.


I'm using a Toshiba M81 4.2 Megapixel (2400 x 1800 pixels )

All my earlier shots were at the resolution above. This apparently was causing the camera to over compensate when gathering light for such a high res image. Simply lowering the res. to 1200 x 800 made all the difference in the world. I have it set on Auto Focus / Auto Exposure w/no Flash. After each shot, the image in the viewfinder is so accurate, I can safely make the decision to delete any sub par pic.

I'm thinking of reducing the res to 800 x 600 and reshooting ole Helmut Head again. That seems to be the biggest chalange at present.

As for your approval....., well, Awwwrighty then!

Coming from a fellow believer with a paint scheme that is as good (...or better even!) as any I've seen or worked with, that's a plaudit thats both welcome and appreciated!

Honestly, IMO your shots have the edge because of your shapness of image. I've said that before and it still holds true. But for how long? Don't rest on your laurels CMRA because there is more to come, and the output of PJs (..at least 4 different Models) I expect to install (10-11) over just the nest 60 days or so will all, of course, be throughly documented on AVS.

Teaser.

The HT I started today is slated to be a 7.1 system w/ 26 Drivers (transducers) total.

Room Demensions are 13' x 20' 120" SMG "Painted On" WallScreen on 13' wall. It's a Bonus Room above a Garage w/ 4.8" Knee walls


Right & Left Fronts w/ 4 'ducers each. (8 ohms total)
Center w/ 6 'ducers (5.3 ohms total) Located "In Wall" directly behind the screen for perfect vocal imaging.
Right & Left Rears w/4 'ducers each. (8 ohms total)
Right & Left Center Rears w/2 'ducers each. (4 ohms total)

12 Aura Pro Tactiles located "In Floor", 4 to each row of Seating (3 rows)
Back Row is to be situated on top of an 8" Riser platform (13' x 4.5')
Center Row is to be situated on top of an 4" Riser platform (13' x 4.5')
Front Row recieves Tactiles applied directly to Floor Decking.
All Tactiles situated just in front of Chair's leading edge.
Each 4 Tactile array presents a 4 ohm load to a 150 Watt Mono Block Amp (Audio Source)

Amp will be a SONY 5000 ES w/ Video Upconversion (S-VHS - Composite) to Component. 150 w/channel x 7 @ 8 ohms 4 ohm capability on all channels

DVD is to be the newest Samsung w/DVI out, HDCP Compatiblity, SACD

PJ will be a Studio Experience 50-HD 1280 x 780 16:9 1000 lumens, 1700:1 Contrast Ratio
4 Quadrent Keystone (...set it to the far right of screen, get a perfectly square Image.) Motorized Lens Shift.

Front & Rear Sub Woofers will be BIC's 10" 250 watt Down Firing w/Port

Unified Remote to be decided later

Total price installed?

$9879.00

(Risers not included)

Gotta go to 7:30 Pm & 9:30 Pm sales calls, both for HT's woth PJs. Both are leads from my Home Show HT display.

Once again...thanks CMRA


All in a days work. And night's. And day's. etc.
post #249 of 918
Thread Starter 
Damn...looks as though I have to repost!
post #250 of 918
Thread Starter 
Re:

 

quote-to missman.txt 2.345703125k . file
post #251 of 918
CMRA,

From the start, when I ramped up and begin PJ installs over RPTVs, the 20-HD attracted my attention on this Forum and The Big Picture DVD Forum for two reasons; 1st..., ambient light performance. 2nd..., crisp detail at 100"+. Both forums were rife with arguments about tolerating LCD's SDE vs the overly smooth "Film Like" image produced by DLPs. Since I was always intending to create systems for HDTV viewing as well as DVDs, and often in Family Room HTs, the LCD got my vote. NEVER did I regret that decision. The 20 HD was the one LCD w/NO SDE to speak of....unless you shot it onto a High Gain screen. That's when I started experimenting with Beir's much darker "Old Chrome" cut 50/50 with Ultra Pure White Flat. Like your ME, besides damping down the Lumens, the grey also removes any last traced of SDE.

No SDE, but lumenosity off the wall was cut to the equivilent of a 1000 lumen PJ to effect that result. But the detail...THE DETAIL! I could spot detail no one else could approach.

I chuckled at the arguments on both Forums. I laughed at the Panny 300 owners with thier attempts to mitigate SDE by defocusing, but in doing so bringing clarity down to DLP levels. I guffawed when DLP owners griped about ambient light distress, yet expounded upon "Film Like" image quality and color correctness. But DLP distratcors (LCD owners, of course!) touted "Rainbows' as intolerable, while DLP owners puked about tolerating any SDE at all. Seems everyone forgot about value/ performance ratios in lue of trashing the other's choice of PJs. And both were getting Killer machines for what amounts to a pittance.

The GNOMES!

Since then I've installed both. For my "Entry Level" Clients I installed X1s shooting onto raw, unpainted Parkland (smooth side) or on walls with Ultra Pure White mixed with a touch of the Old Chrome. I'll give ME the nod on those installs next. Seems to be the way to go.

But even though it is more costly and time consuming, I am convinced that undercoats of SMG is the way to go to increase gain without glare. and a really good thing to use if your image goes out beyond 110" Liike the 168" Monster Screen I'm about to install in New Jersey! Last time there. I mearly painted the prepped wall area with Primer, and using the exact same Toshiba (...and I mean the EXACT same one, sent on afterwards to me to Memphis) I shot my images from 16' away.

Lordy, was it spectacular to see an image that big look so good on just primer alone. I was to spec out a 20-HD, but between it's heat issues, and size, I thought that the Toshiba would suffice. The Client whole hearted agreed.

Now, after my shootout with you, I'm hedging on that decision. I miss my detail. Oh, I'm going to set up a 50 HD and try it out soon, both in Jersey and Memphis (4 of 'em actually over the next 30 days) but if the new unit doesn't represent a significant gain in sharpness in detail over the past, I'm going back to LCDs with a vengence. I would not have realized the difference between the two (the DLP's image IS great.) without the comparisons between your excellent screen shots, and my own.

The larger Truths.

Image quality is great with both, especially at the prices we pay today.

DYI screens can AND do match or exceed the quality of ANY comparable Mfg screen.

DIY screen's Color correctness can meets or exceed "out of the Box

That you and I can nit pick over subtle differences about image detail while showing off different platforms on painted walls speaks for itself......

CMRA, WE ARE THERE !

And soon, the DIY screen crowd will become a Legion of converts to the mindthink, "Cheaper IS Better, and makes your experience all the more special because of it. All the more so if your quality is BETTER than a MFG screen."

So now I must depart into another day of bringing joy to common folk with 'real world' budgets.

Aint it grand? !!!!!
post #252 of 918
CMRA,
Just painted 2 coats of ME over my "screen", 4 coats of ti white gesu, and all I can say is WOW. The old philips lcd projector I am using looks much better. The problem I was having was a total lack of shadow detail. But with the grey wall, I can boost the brightness and and play with the gamma. I will do a true calibration as soon as my disc finds it's way home from a friends house.

BTW, I have a 1024x768 projector but almost all the material I watch is 2.31:1. I just installed soom barn doors on the the top and bottom of the projector lens. This really helps to cut stray light on the ceiling and below the screen. At first I just used 2 pcs of velvet coverd cardboard taped to the projector, but these are better. The barn doors are really just adjustable, non-reflective panels that can swing up and down to partially cover the lens. They are used on stage lights to control where the light goes. Obviously some care must be used or the picture quality will suffer.
post #253 of 918
I'm brand new to the projector world and I just bought a Sharp DT200. This is a DLP projector.

I learned a great deal from this forum and thank everyone for the wealth of shared info.

Ilike the idea of a DIY screen. I intend to buy and paint a 4'x8'x3/4" sheet of MDF available at HD for $19. It's perfectly flat, smooth, and rigid and will not go wavy on me when hung. Sure it's heavy but I can deal with that.

Now for my Misty Evening (ME) question....
CMRA asked for results with a DLP projector since he has an LCD. Can anyone provide input on suitablility of ME with a DLP projector. Without specific ME comments pertaining to DLP I think I'll go with a more grayish screen (in about the same darkeness level as ME).

Thanks,
John
post #254 of 918
I believe someone used the ME with an X1 and liked it.
post #255 of 918
johnstof, super easy answer. Just roll out a couple stripes on the mdf of variousME/White combos, shoot an image as choose what you like.
post #256 of 918
I live in the Northeast and checked my local Home Depot and can't find "Misty Evening" paint.

I have the Sony HS10 and it's been calibrated using the SMART III system.

Should I still go with the "ME" grey for my wall or is Behr "Ultra Pure White" a better choice since I have already calibrated ?

Thanks. Jimmy
post #257 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sailn
johnstof, super easy answer. Just roll out a couple stripes on the mdf of variousME/White combos, shoot an image as choose what you like.

That's half the battle. If you stop there, the screen surface that's tuned to your PJ will look best. You really have to set up your PJ for each surface. Then make your judgements.
post #258 of 918
Jimmy,

It's Misty Evening, not Mystic Evening. My Northeast (Connecticut) Home Depot's carry it. It a gray with a bluish tint.

A few days/weeks ago, CMRA posted a photo of the ME paint label which you can bring to HD. But with the proper spelling, you should have not problem finding it.

John
post #259 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan

CMRA, WE ARE THERE !

And soon, the DIY screen crowd will become a Legion of converts to the mindthink, "Cheaper IS Better, and makes your experience all the more special because of it. All the more so if your quality is BETTER than a MFG screen."


MissMan, your enthusiasm is almost catchy and borders on dangerous. To say we have something better than a maunfactured product is a stretch. To say we have something that can compete with same, members can appreciate that.
The pleasure will always remain amongst the few. We are a very small fraternity and lucky to know the difference.
post #260 of 918
Quote:


MissMan, your enthusiasm is almost catchy and borders on dangerous. To say we have something better than a maunfactured product is a stretch. To say we have something that can compete with same, members can appreciate that.
The pleasure will always remain amongst the few. We are a very small fraternity and lucky to know the difference.

...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;_
Make him a member of the gentry, even if he is a commoner....

Sorry, but it seemed to fit
post #261 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
But even though it is more costly and time consuming, I am convinced that undercoats of SMG is the way to go to increase gain without glare. and a really good thing to use if your image goes out beyond 110" Liike the 168" Monster Screen I'm about to install in New Jersey! Last time there. I mearly painted the prepped wall area with Primer, and using the exact same Toshiba (...and I mean the EXACT same one, sent on afterwards to me to Memphis) I shot my images from 16' away.


After reading this I became acutely aware of the importance of gain. Since I project a maximum of 100 inches and I have a short throw lens projector, that monster never really bothered me. However, out of curiosity, I tested going the other way, ie, a 50 inch screen and sat closer to compensate for the size difference. I'll leave this to everyones' imagination.
post #262 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by johnstof

Now for my Misty Evening (ME) question....
CMRA asked for results with a DLP projector since he has an LCD. Can anyone provide input on suitablility of ME with a DLP projector. Without specific ME comments pertaining to DLP I think I'll go with a more grayish screen (in about the same darkeness level as ME).

Thanks,
John

Look up 'Banky Edwards' comments. He has DLP and ME.
post #263 of 918
Johnstof, I have a dlp projector, an Infocus X1 and let me tell you that the Misty Evening works great! It improves blacks and the colors are vibrant...I don't know how CMRA found this particular color, but he's onto something here....It looks better than my 1.0 gain screen....
post #264 of 918
sorry to be a pest guys but this thread is really long. what are the numbers on the can for ME? I would like to get some from home depot but I dont know what kind of paint or mixture to get. thanks!
post #265 of 918
Misty Evening (30BG 64/036).....that is what you tell the guy at Home Depot, they will know how to mix it....Write it down and just give it to the salesperson and he will do the rest...Just one quart should be enough....
post #266 of 918
yay! thanks Noel, I can't wait to roll this stuff on a parkland panel. o what should I use for a base coat? just a flat matte white?
post #267 of 918
Kornbiz-
Get some Kilz or Kilz2 primer at HD when you're there. It will help the paint adhere to the parkland material.
post #268 of 918
ill look for that stuff when im there. thanks!
post #269 of 918
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Kornbiz247
yay! thanks Noel, I can't wait to roll this stuff on a parkland panel. o what should I use for a base coat? just a flat matte white?

Kornbiz, it's imperative to 'prime' not paint your substrate first, especially if it's plastic. Scuff sand also to impove bonding.
post #270 of 918
...use the smooth side.
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