Burlington, VT - HDTV - Page 3

Sounds like VT is behind the times. That's too bad.

WNNE, NBC out of Hartford, Vt will be testing digital next month on channel 25. They'll be broadcasting from Mt Ascutney and sharing some of the Vt PTV facilities, which, by the way, is already doing HD (and it looks great). WNNE expects to be passing on all the national NBC HD feeds at first and then adding some of their own stuff later.

So there's 2 stations in the Connecticut River valley of Vt / NH.

As for the Burlington stations, they formed a cozy little coalition for tower construction purposes which seems to also provide a nice competition & FCC protection barrier for a few years, so who knows.

WaltinVt

Walt;

Ascutney (where the transmitters are) is ~ 80 miles from me in NW Vermont; I wonder if I would be able to pick them up. I think nowt; I am using just a radioshack antenna in the attic w/o any amplifier. Silver sensor? I really don't want to mount outside etc. I can get Mountain lake PBS which is 40 miles away up in NE NY. Just curious what you think...thanks!

PS Any notion on the power levels the PBS and WNNE folks are using?

I'm getting a 80-90% signal from VtPBS Digital (channel 24.1 tjru 24.5 with 24.5 being their HD station). As for WNNE, they haven't actually started testing yet, so can't tell you.

I live about 45 miles north of Mt Ascutney in Bradford at about 800 feet.

I started out trying a Silver Sensor indoors - nothing, not even a quiver. Then I stuck it on a 10 foot pole and tried different spots in my yard and was able to lock a few times but never at more than 65% and got a lot of pixalization. Then I finally went to a Channel Master (Yagie type) with amp and rotor on my roof to get what I get now.

I also get some signal from WMUR in Manchester NH (59) and a couple of Boston stations (42 & 44) too but not enough to stay locked.

My guess (and that's all it is) would be, if you can pick up some signal activity with your S.S. outdoors, there may be a good chance you'd be able to get the Mt Ascutney stations with a real roof antenna & amp.

Good luck,
Walt

Well, we may all be OK now if this congressional bill does what the folks at the various forums are describing..the ability to get HD feeds off sat because our local stations are behind the times.

Now if that HD Tivo would only drop in price....

Discovery HD Theater popped up on Adelphia HD last night

I got D* to give me 150 dollar credit towards the hdtivo rather than providing local compatible HD reciver to replace my TS160.


talking to retention is always worth a shot.

BTW the HD tivo is an amazing toy!!!

Bohbot16; Might I ask what your Adelphia bill is? I just can't see twisting over when I already have all the sat equipment plus 2 SD tivos....the last time I called adelphia the bill was much more than sat...after including the HD capability and tivo ability.

Do they have HD DVR capability yet? Thanks.

be careful of Adelphia's HD DVR, last I heard they had abox that was an HD reciever and a DVR, but only recorded HD in SD.

basic+expanded+digital+digital plus+4 movie channel paks+on demand+hd channels+dvr+high speed internet w/ cable modem rental = 140/mo

yes thats a lot of money
yes i get that much use out of it
yes the dvr records in hd (or the compression isn't visible to me, but is definitely much higher res than sd)

Anybody hear anything about WNNE? It was supposed to go into testing, but I don't have an HD STB yet to check it out.

Casey,
This is latest I've heard from WNNE:

"Walt,
Good to get some feed back, I was at the mall the other day and
asked the salesperson about DTV and they had no clue that there was such a
thing as over the air DTV! I guess that will change as more of us convet
to digital and promote that fact.

Just curious as to what type of antenna you are using? set top or outdoor?
Wondering if you have had any issues with cars/ people moving around
causing reception problems?

We are planning to pass NBC HD when HD programming is available, and WNNE
upconverted NTSC when it is not.

Have not heard of other stations in the group having any aspect problems,
but thanks for the heads up.

We have the antenna mounted, line run , tested the line and antenna with
manufacturer on tuesday/ wed .

Scheduled to have transmitter manf. up first part of december to do
install. Not sure when we will be transmitting full time.

I will let you know, but keep in touch.

Have a good Thanksgiving,

Roger"


I usually run a signal check for channel 25 a couple time a week with my Dish 811 but nothing so far. I get a 90% signal from the VtPBS-HD off of Mt Ascutney, so WNNE should come in great when it happens.

WaltinVt

When I do a check of my address in Williston on www.checkhd.com, it tells me that WCFE-DT is broadcasting... I don't have an antenna so I can't check, and their website doesn't seem to indicate that they are doing any digital broadcasting that I could find.

Can anyone confirm this? It's only PBS, but at least it would be SOMETHING....

WCFE-DT 38 has been on the air from quite sometime now.

I don't know what power they are broadcasting at exactly, but I'm getting a good 90% signal with an outdoor antenna just east of Montreal.

The channel remaps as 57.1 and 57.2.

.1 shows the PBS-HD channel while .2 shows a highly compressed digital simulcast of WCFE's regular channel.

To all Burlington-Plattsburgh residents: Has anyone been able to get HD DNS from DirecTV or Dish now that the new bill with the digital white area provision has passed?

HD Team;

Yes WCFE has been broadcasting full time for ~ 6 months. I am 45 miles out and using a radioshack $40 antenna in my attic w/o any amps and getting excellent signal.

Foxfan has the 57.1 and 57.2 setup correct.

There is NOTHING else I can pull in here near Burlington. WaltinVT down in central VT may have an update on the NBC affiliate down there; I think that will be a bit far for me.

Regarding Directv HD Walt and I have both called and tried and posted in the various satellite forums; no go. In fact its frustrating because no one knows how long it will be before we get the national feeds.

Anything new out of Canada?

Wish this thread was more active so it would be visible nearer the front of the list.

Anyway, the latest I've heard about WNNE HD is this:

Received 12/13/04:

Walt,
The install is complete, they are going to do the FCC proof today .
We are still waiting on the encode gear to arrive. Hopefully we will see it
soon.

I will keep you updated. Yes you are the lone person interested in this so
far, But keep in touch it feels good to know at least someone will be
watching!

roger

Received 12/29/04:

"Walt,
We are still waiting on encode /transport gear. Delivery time has
slipped again, should see it this week.

You may see us soon . hoping for first part of jan.

Will keep you updated.

roger"

So they are pretty good at keeping me updated and it sounds like we may see something soon. Too bad it won't help with the Superbowl or Daytona 500.

As near as I can see, many Vermonters are NOT going to be allowed any legal options to receive HD signals for a long time to come unless the FCC decides to issue something.

The bill that was hyped to help rural area residents with no OTA options for digital programming is doing absolutely nothing for us - in fact there are many stories of viewers actually losing channels.

WaltinVt

Just curious if anyone has checked into the legality of what WCAX is doing with their HD signal by only making it available to a small segment of Vermont viewers ?

Maybe I don't understand all the issues but if it's available to Adelphia, why isn't it also available to Charter or any other cable company in the state or any of the satellite providers ?

Seems a little counter- productive to this whole digital transition thing to me.

WaltinVt

Great news on WCFE - sorry I didn't know before! I'll pick up a UHF antenna on my way home from work and check to see if I can pick it up here in Williston.

On the networks, yes it's really not a good story. FYI, a year or so ago using the DNS rules I was able to give a service address for a camp I have up in the NE Kingdom and received WCBS-HD on my Dish 811. Not 100% kosher, but it is my property, and i COULD actually have that as my service address.... I was nervous when 2005 came along with the new DNS rules, but i seem to have been grandfathered in and it still works.

Unfortunately, it also means that my only network options are CBS via Dish... and CBS via Adelphia... No options for ABC, NBC, Fox, WB, UPN.

Now DirecTV has all 4 majors, but because we receive LIL on DirecTV now, we cannot get Distant HD unless we "move" to a big DMA. I'm not willing to do that, but it's bloody bizarre that is the only way to get more majors here.

Oh yes - one other thought... I know Dish carries BOTH NBC-5 out of BTV, and NBC-31 out of the Connecticut River Valley as they are both in the Burlington DMA... Once 31 goes HD, any idea if it's possible that Adelphia out of Burlington could carry the HD feed out of WNNE-31?

Sure would be nice, but even though both NBC channels seem to be co-managed/owned I'm not betting on it.

I'm still confused about this WCAX-HD thing.

Are they actually broadcasting HD from their transmitter or is it still analog to the general public and a special HD feed to Adelphia and nowhere else ? How can they do that and why ?

Walt

WCAX is part of the Mount Mansfield alliance of all of the networks broadcast from Burlington (including NBC who actually broadcasts their analog signal out of Plattsburg).

What WCAX has done SOMEHOW is decide that in lieu of waiting for the tower situation to work itself out is to pipe their HD feeds directly to Adelphia and create a cable-only CBS HD feed.

I am not sure how this works legally, but with an FCC extension to wait until the tower is built prior to OTA broadcasts, I'm at least thankful that they are doing SOMETHING.

As far as I can tell, the other local stations (WFFF Fox, WPTZ NBC, WVNY ABC, and VPT) have no intention to do anything in digital or high-def until the Mt. Mansfield tower is built. Nor have I even heard with confidence that the construction will actually start this Spring.

It would be one thing if WCAX was offering their HD signal to all providers (at the same price) but Adelphia was the only one taking it.

IMHO it's totally contrary to the scope of the digital transition mandate.

What will happen if every station does this - only makes their digital / HD signal exclusively available to one particular provider while still being allowed to provide their analog signal to everyone else ? At the same time, federal law denies satellite from selling the distant HD signal. This is insane, with the consumer being the loser.

Maybe it would be different if there was true, fair competition among all the providers in any given area but there's not. Only one cable company per area; WCAX is NOT O & O by CBS in this DMA, so satellite can't provide the distant HD signal; WCAX is NOT providing this HD signal over the air.

Someone should ask the FCC about this. I think any station that has a digital signal but only wants to provide it to one source should be forced to give up their analog signal. Otherwise this digital transition is going to be total chaos.

I can certainly understand that this would be frustrating if you were in a non-Adelphia area, but I'm not sure what other options there are for WCAX without a tower.

Adelphia and WCAX are just across town from each other, so I'm sure it's trivial for them to pipe the signal to them. Without OTA, I'm not sure how other distant cable companies would receive the signal.

I've got to give the station credit where credit is due - they have even upgraded their studio to HD for the news.

Again, I understand everything you've said - it's a raw deal for consumers in any market where the stations are so far behind, and this cable-only stopgap clouds things. However, the alternative seems to be for WCAX to simply sit and wait like all of the other stations, and I think that stinks even more.

Yea, I don't know the technical aspects of what their doing (maybe someone will jump in that does) and probably if it were Charter or I could get Adelphia, I'd have similar feelings.

I don't think anyone would mind if there was an alternate option available to the people that can't take advantage of the Adelphia / WCAX HD deal and the only reason there isn't is that the law is preventing it.

WCAX is choosing to make their HD signal available only to a select customer base (and don't say it isn't a choice because it really is) while at the same time receiving protection from anyone providing a competing HD signal. All this and they're still allowed to retain their analog signal which also has protection from competition.

You say "you have to give them credit for doing something" and to some extent I agree but do you realize the implications this could have if it becomes normal practice with other affiliates ?

What if WNNE down here cut an exclusive deal with TCI for NBCHD and Charter cuts a deal with say WMUR for ABCHD and some other company for FoxHD? We could end up with all these little exclusive deals where any given customer only has access to maybe One HD channel and no chance for any others. All while satellite competition is being held back by the arm of the FCC and there's really no incentive for the affiliate to ever do full power digital OTA.

I agree completely. IF WCAX or any station used cable carriage or some other arrangement as a way to delay/defer their OTA broadcasting I would be raising a BIG stink.

I just see this a little bit differently (maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses though....) I see WCAX trying to do something above and beyond the other stations while they ALL drive towards the OTA plan on Mt. Mansfield.

If we start to hear anything about slips on the antenna build I would change my tune. I really hope that doesn't happen. We've waited more than long enough.

I guess the more I objectivly think about it, the more I realize my gripe is not really so much with WCAX - they quite possibly could be trying to move beyond the restraints of the tower schedule in the best way they can. IF that's true, most likely they'll find a way to also get their HD signal on other cable companies and satellite.

I guess what really upsets me is that the new legislation was supposed to help us rural area people that have NO options for digital and we seem to be the ones being restricted the most.

People in O & O now have access to all 4 distant HD nets by "D", yet O & O areas tent to be the areas where most viewers have other options like OTA or a big cable companies that are doing HD.

Here in Vermont, none of our affiliates have even begun digital OTA and who knows when it will happen, most of the cable companies show no signs of ever doing digital, and we, by law can NOT get the distant HD nets imported by satellite.

It doesn't even make any sense. Everyone says how there's so few of us. So what's the big deal then if they let "D" give them to us too ?

WaltinVt

Walt, I have to chime in here and just say thanks for keeping us up-to-date as far as WNNE is concerned. Believe it or not, I've contacted them and heard nothing back. So... at least they're talking to somebody.

If you want to get mad at anybody, get mad at the Vermont Legislators and Voters. The reason all of this is delayed is Act 250, Current Use and all of that loverly other stuff that the old-timers voted in so they could keep their 1000 acre "horse" farms clean from "outsiders."

I'm amazed at the ass-backwardsness of some of the people of vermont. Granted, I'm generalizing, but the same people that voted for these restrictive laws are the ones that are now screaming about how government infringes upon their freedom. Hell, look at Killington... nuff said.

You could also partially blame Nielsen Media and the FCC for their allocation of DMAs. Having worked with both of them in regards to DMAs, I can guarantee that the people ultimately making the decisions have no clue as to how Rural America works.

Sure... when it comes to Primetime TV, if I can get a clear signal, I don't care who it comes from. But when it comes to "local" news, a "city" 70 miles away from where I live has no interest and does not pertain to me. I could care less that the BHS Seahorses lost yet another game. Yet, the FCC protects that for the broadcasters. Now... to be fair, WNNE does broadcast some local news... an entire 5 minutes a night. 2 minutes for weathers... a 30 second ad and 2.5 minutes of "local" highlights. Usually from Rutland or NE Kingdom. How this is truely local is beyond me.

I guess the only option at this point is to move from VT... oh well

Well... if you managed to to make it this far, let me apologize for my rant. This is starting to become one of my biggest annoyances.

The biggest headache when dealing with this is that nobody will come forward and "complain" to their congressman. I honestly don't know how many HD TV owners there are in VT, but based upon what I am seeing in the computer industry, I would guess that HD sets have a fairly large penetration rate.

Thoughts? What do you think us mere mortals who want HD can do? Let's get this thread active. Start talking about legal recourses, petitions, talking to the local goverment... whatever you think would help, lay it out.

Thanks again... VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!! (ok a bit drastic, but let's take back our TV)

Casey

I hear you Casey & sinnfein07(hey,what should I call you ?) .

I emailed letters Sunday to Vermont's 3 legislators and I encourage all of you to do the same.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

However my complaint is not so much with the Vermont environmental regulations, heck they've always been here and will always be an issue with any type of progress that requires a building permit.

My real issue is with the new legislation that was just signed. It was presented by politicians as something that was going to help the rural area satellite subscribers like us that could not get a digital network signal OTA. They all slapped themselves on the back saying how this would speed up the digital transition.

Even if the Mt Mansfield towers were up and at full power right now I couldn't get any of those signals and I suspect there are many others in Vt that won't be able to either. The point being that other than a change to digital, OTA isn't going to be any different than it's always been - there will always be many people that can't get the signal, just like there will always be many people that don't have access to cable. Of all the HDTV owners in Vermont, how many do you think have access to WCAX HD via Adelphia cable ?

I could go on and on about how the politicians and high level executives have put the screws to the little people on this particular issue but I'm tired of explaining it. Besides I've spouted off enough in other threads, so my feelings are out there.

I'll close by saying that IMHO the only thing that's going to help us up here now is if we all make a LOT of noise to our Congress people and the FCC. By doing that LOUD and OFTEN, we may be able to speed up the FCC creating the digital "white" area they're supposed to be doing. It's our only chance and Powell isn't about to do any more than he has to in that regards unless he gets a lot of pressure from the people and Congress.

Once the "white area" is official then we may have an option.

WaltinVt

The Vermont digital tv situation is so convoluted that it gives me a headache. Adelphia cable doesn't reach my house, which is south of Woodstock. They brought it to a pole about 200 yards from my house and stopped. I called and asked when they would reach me. They offered to bring it to my house for $5,000. (That is not a typo; though it is a farce. Adelphia brought the cable to several homes nearby at some significant cost and in the end no one subscribed.) Apparently PBS and NBC do OTA digital broadcasting from towers on the top of Mt Ascutney which is 10 miles southeast of us. Unfortunately, we live on the eastern slope of a big hill in the middle of the woods and can get no digital signal. We have VOOM, but of course VOOM does not have the networks. We have had Pegasus--now DirecTV--since it first came out and received the distant network feeds from them. Recently when I turned on the DirecTV to watch a PBS news program I found that it was no longer available to us. I called DirecTV and they said that since they now offer the "locals" from Burlington VT the PBS affiliate had declared that we could no longer receive the distant PBS feed. However, the other network affiliates had not ordered that we be cut off. Just Vermont PBS. (Lovely treatment by a non-profit organization.) For a fee Directv offered to sell us all the Burlington locals. I indicated that while I visit Burlington perhaps once every other year I might be interested. But then the CSR added that to get the Burlington locals I would need to add a second satellite dish and a new receiver. Bizarre! Also, there was the possibility that I would lose the New York national feeds from the other networks if I took the Burlington locals. They were not entirely sure about that. Since I am more interested in New York local news than in Burlington local news ( I spend more time in NYC than Burlington) I decided to decline the offer. Later it occurred to me, after reading this forum, that if I had surrendered the Standard Definition distant network feeds I might have no access to the HD network programming since there is no way I can get Burlington OTA when it eventually starts digital broadcasting from Mt Mansfield and since DirecTV will probably take several years to have the bandwidth to broadcast Burlington HD locals. So now I am without PBS--a bummer--and I am hesitating to spend the money on a DirecTV HD dish and receiver, since it occurs to me that if PBS Burlington can order us to be cut off from national feeds, isn't it likely that the other Burlington networks will follow suit? It seems to me that Congressmen from Vermont need to do a better job of watching out for the interests of rural constituents during the digital transition.