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NetStreams Questions - Page 9

post #241 of 447
THIS IS HUGE NEWS!

Thanks for that tidbit Paul.

As I was reading through your post the first question came to mind was "what if my source goes off-line?". I think it is great that you guys were thiking ahead and developing a device capable of having a dynamic DB. Most Excellent.

This news has solidified the fact that I will be installing Digilinx in my new home.

Now just to find a dealer that is willing to deal with me (possibly letting me do my own install, I am very picky and a control freak)

styxx_78
post #242 of 447
I was looking on the website and can't seem to figure out the difference between the following Switchlinx units.

Switchlinx SW224
Switchlinx SW324

My take is that the SW224 was replaced by the SW324 but has not been removed from the website. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, since I do not have prices yet, what would be more expensive? 2 8-port switches? Or 1 24-port switch?
post #243 of 447
1 SW324 would be cheaper than 2 SW208's...
post #244 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsung View Post

1 SW324 would be cheaper than 2 SW208's...

Correct.
post #245 of 447
FYI, here is a CEPro article about the upcoming Streaming Music Manager:

http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/14788.html
post #246 of 447
Looks pretty cool although the phrase, "The unit is expected to "retail" for less than $3,000" threw me off my rocker. After reading all the hype about this unit I was expecting that it would come in under the $1000 mark. My estimation was waay off. I truly hope they are wrong.

I now may have to rethink my whole house audio solution as this would put me way over budget.

Perhaps I have champagne taste on the beer budget syndrome.

Hmm...
post #247 of 447
We don't sell at retail so we don't have public retail pricing. Check with your DigiLinX dealer for your price.
post #248 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by styxx_78 View Post

Looks pretty cool although the phase, "The unit is expected to "retail" for less than $3,000" threw me off my rocker. After reading all the hype about this unit I was expecting that it would come in under the $1000 mark. My estimation was waay off. I truly hope they are wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by styxx_78 View Post

I now may have to rethink my whole house audio solution as this would put me way over budget.

Why not think of using Sonos. Cheaper cost, simpler setup and better sound. Look this Digilinx stuff is overcomplicated and requires an installer for a hookup. It doesn't have to be that difficult or expensive. Take a look at Sonos and see for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by styxx_78 View Post

Perhaps I have champagne taste on the beer budget syndrome.

No, maybe it is just over priced and much too complex for what you are actually getting.

Hmm...
post #249 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Guill View Post

Why not think of using Sonos. Cheaper cost, simpler setup and better sound. Look this Digilinx stuff is overcomplicated and requires an installer for a hookup. It doesn't have to be that difficult or expensive. Take a look at Sonos and see for yourself.


Sonos is cheaper than we are. But Sonos serves a different market. DigiLinX is a dealer-installed entertainment and control solution where as Sonos is audio only. DigiLinX does audio, video (with Panorama and IP video coming Q107), and home control integration with Aprilaire for HVAC, Lutron for Lighting, etc. The reason we require installer installation is because our system is so flexible, and we invest a lot of time, money, and effort in training our dealers to customize DigiLinX to the needs of their customers.

Can you quantify the "better sound" comment, do you have data to back that up or is it just FUD?

Quote:



No, maybe it is just over priced and much too complex for what you are actually getting.

Hmm...

We can go back and forth about what the right solution is for this particular person (and it may or may not be DigiLinX depending on his needs, which is why we get our dealers involved), but I believe our thousands of happy DigiLinX customers would disagree that the system is overpriced or too complex.
post #250 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Young View Post

The SMM "mines" the network for WAV and MP3 files on any shared folder.

just WAV and MP3? this flies contrary to Netstreams' high-quality cachet. how about some lossless support aside from WAV? does Netstreams plan to or already support iPod/iTunes?
sonos is indeed an alternative and practical solution for audio distribution, with a great interface and wide format support. but it gets very expensive as more rooms get added...
post #251 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Young View Post

Can you quantify the "better sound" comment, do you have data to back that up or is it just FUD?

I do not understand "FUD" but Sonos has support for several lossless formats as well as other MP3 and itunes formats. The sound quality for lossless is superior to all MP3 formats.

If you may, could you explain to me and all others, the need to integrate video and control with the audio distribution. I still do not understand the need. I see that IP support of streaming video is coming but that is handled by wireless routers and ones computer now. I guess I am missing something with the need for HVAC control and video distribution. Please educate me. I currently live in a 6600 sf house with two zone heating and air that uses inexpensive setback thermostats that work on a weekly schedule. My house also uses Lutron RadioRA lighting that is controlled by a wall plate as well as any one of my Universal Remote Controls. Video distribution uses home-runned RG6 cabling to each room and audio distribution is provided in 11 zones by Sonos Zone players. I might add that for music complete control is provided by these cool controllers that can be wall mounted. They have instant selection of all my music stored via lossless FLAC format on standard NAS and easily accessible to create playlists on the fly as well as see album art for my selection. I have only had 6 different streams of audio in the 11 zones, I haven't tried more. I can also combine individual zones on the fly as the need arises, instantly. Truly a flexible device. My computers (6 desktops and 3 laptops) are wirelessly connected through a Linksys router. I have two separate locations (one for each floor) for printing wirelessly. The only wires run were RG6 for video.
post #252 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Guill View Post

I do not understand "FUD" but Sonos has support for several lossless formats as well as other MP3 and itunes formats. The sound quality for lossless is superior to all MP3 formats.

If you may, could you explain to me and all others, the need to integrate video and control with the audio distribution. I still do not understand the need. I see that IP support of streaming video is coming but that is handled by wireless routers and ones computer now. I guess I am missing something with the need for HVAC control and video distribution. Please educate me. I currently live in a 6600 sf house with two zone heating and air that uses inexpensive setback thermostats that work on a weekly schedule. My house also uses Lutron RadioRA lighting that is controlled by a wall plate as well as any one of my Universal Remote Controls. Video distribution uses home-runned RG6 cabling to each room and audio distribution is provided in 11 zones by Sonos Zone players. I might add that for music complete control is provided by these cool controllers that can be wall mounted. They have instant selection of all my music stored via lossless FLAC format on standard NAS and easily accessible to create playlists on the fly as well as see album art for my selection. I have only had 6 different streams of audio in the 11 zones, I haven't tried more. I can also combine individual zones on the fly as the need arises, instantly. Truly a flexible device. My computers (6 desktops and 3 laptops) are wirelessly connected through a Linksys router. I have two separate locations (one for each floor) for printing wirelessly. The only wires run were RG6 for video.

NetStreams DigiLinX supports fully uncompressed WAV as well as MP3. Which is why I was asking you to clarify your comment about "better audio."

You have what sounds like a very nice solution for your needs. I am not in any way discounting people who choose other products. There is a feature:cost curve that the market will drive and everyone falls on it differently based on their needs and budget. The most successful companies communicate clearly with their customers where they fit and the market generally does a really good job letting the company know if their features have fallen out of line with their cost.

To answer your question, we are integrating HVAC, lighting, security, digital video, IP speakers, IP cameras, and other external devices with our systems based on customer requests and market feedback. To be more specific, the problem that we are trying to solve is that the high-end customers who choose DigiLinX are seeking an "all-in-one" solution to the various control systems that they have around the house. They don't want a separate HVAC and Lighting system controller. Most don't want to think about where or how they store their audio, and will buy a high-end music server like an Escient or ReQuest have even pay a dealer to rip their CD's onto their system for them (we had a dealer who's homeowner paid them to rip 3000+ CD's onto a server for them). They especially don't want 3 or 4 different touchscreens in their wall. So they look for solutions to collapse that functionality into one system. We are driving that integration with Aprilaire, Lutron, Panasonic, and others.

Is this level of integration a need for you (or most on AVS, who skew DIY)? Perhaps not - but we do serve a distinct market with those features who consider them valuable.
post #253 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Young View Post

NetStreams DigiLinX supports fully uncompressed WAV as well as MP3. Which is why I was asking you to clarify your comment about "better audio."

So the "better" audio is truly a wash. ie the same quality and dependant on the quality and location of the speaker reproducing the sound. The digital waveform is essentially identical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Young View Post

To answer your question, we are integrating HVAC, lighting, security, digital video, IP speakers, IP cameras, and other external devices with our systems based on customer requests and market feedback. To be more specific, the problem that we are trying to solve is that the high-end customers who choose DigiLinX are seeking an "all-in-one" solution to the various control systems that they have around the house. They don't want a separate HVAC and Lighting system controller. Most don't want to think about where or how they store their audio, and will buy a high-end music server like an Escient or ReQuest have even pay a dealer to rip their CD's onto their system for them (we had a dealer who's homeowner paid them to rip 3000+ CD's onto a server for them). They especially don't want 3 or 4 different touchscreens in their wall. So they look for solutions to collapse that functionality into one system. We are driving that integration with Aprilaire, Lutron, Panasonic, and others.

Very Cool! Is this "All-in-one" solutions human interface provided via a PC or some other controller/controlling mechanism?

You say their is no HVAC or lighting system controller. Is this replaced by your controlling mechanism or can one still have the HVAC thermostat and wall switches on the wall as well as your "controller"

For your knowledge, I had looked at Control4 and Fusion Research and the "control" they provide and was not impressed (meaning, I saw little value there especially for their cost in relation with their solutions). Is Digilinx different from these attempted solutions? In what ways? operation, setup, performance, cost?
post #254 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Guill View Post

Very Cool! Is this "All-in-one" solutions human interface provided via a PC or some other controller/controlling mechanism?

You say their is no HVAC or lighting system controller. Is this replaced by your controlling mechanism or can one still have the HVAC thermostat and wall switches on the wall as well as your "controller"

For your knowledge, I had looked at Control4 and Fusion Research and the "control" they provide and was not impressed (meaning, I saw little value there especially for their cost in relation with their solutions). Is Digilinx different from these attempted solutions? In what ways? operation, setup, performance, cost?

The user interface is produced by our TouchLinX product, which is an in-wall touchscreen. It also acts as a web server and can be accessed by a PC, web tablet, or PDA.

On how we interface with 3rd party systems, we have a box called a ControLinX, which is an RS-232 to Ethernet converter. Most of our partners have an RS-232 port on their system that we plug into and then can control their features. Aprilaire for example has a protocol adapter that we plug into and then we can emulate their keypad from our UI. Homeowners can choose to keep the native keypads in the wall for their other systems, and some do for strategic areas, but for the most part they control their system through DigiLinX where they can to cut down on "wall acne."

The biggest difference between DigiLinX and the other systems you mention is that DigiLinX was built over IP from the ground up. That gives us some advantage in integrating new systems that will grow as the market moves to IP. As for setup, operation and performance, based on feedback from our customers, all three are good but there is always room to improve. Setup we mostly get feedback from our dealers, since DigiLinX is not a DIY product. Operation and performance are generally perceived by end-customers as byproducts of the user interface, e.g. does it "look good," does it fit in the decor of a multi-million dollar home. Plus our audio performance is very high, since we locate the amp very close to the speaker. This reduces heat (smaller amps), and the potential for analog signal loss. Sonos is similar, but most of our competitors in the Multi-Room Audio space still use centralized amps with long runs of speaker wire.
post #255 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Guill View Post

For your knowledge, I had looked at Control4 and Fusion Research and the "control" they provide and was not impressed (meaning, I saw little value there especially for their cost in relation with their solutions).

You must have not looked at Control4 very hard...but, if you really feel that way you will see no added value in DigiLinX or AMX, Crestron and Elan either. And that's fine...highly integrated control systems are not for everyone.

Brent Huskins
Media Design
post #256 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuskins View Post

You must have not looked at Control4 very hard...but, if you really feel that way you will see no added value in DigiLinX or AMX, Crestron and Elan either. And that's fine...highly integrated control systems are not for everyone.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Don't get me wrong, the WOW factor is there. The can I really do that is there but then after that feeling had gone away. Meaning I spoke to my wife about the toys and she "showed" me the practicality of them and the budget limitations. Yep even with a million dollar house I still had budget limitations. She convinced me against it, Life is so unfair. But the boat is fun
post #257 of 447
Can anybody elucidate the difference between Audio Authority and Netstream Panarama video distribution systems?
post #258 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonso View Post

Can anybody elucidate the difference between Audio Authority and Netstream Panarama video distribution systems?

I can give you a basic breakdown:

Audio Authority AVX-661
  • Supports 6 Sources, 8 Displays (stackable up to 36 displays)
  • Supports 720p/1080i/1080p
  • DVI out at the head end
  • IR routing through separate break-out box
  • Digital audio distribution (optical or S/PDIF), and analog audio routing (line level)
  • Double gang wallplates
  • IR in and out to control displays
  • Requires 2xCat5 run to each video location
  • Retail cost: approx $3459

NetStreams Panorama
  • Supports 4 Sources, 6 Displays (stackable up to 18 displays)
  • Supports 720p/1080i
  • Integrated IR routing
  • Digital audio distribution (S/PDIF), analog audio routing requires a multi-room audio system like NetStreams Musica or DigiLinX
  • Single gang video port wallplates
  • IR in and out to control displays
  • Single Cat5 run to each video location
  • Tight integration with other NetStreams products
  • Not sold at retail, available from a NetStreams dealer at a competitive price
post #259 of 447
Can someone from Netstreams answer these 2 questions for me?

1. Why did you decide to create a dedicated computer for the Streaming Music Manager (SMM100)?
According to these specs, it is a simple computer with a mediocre chipset (VIA) and a value, if not, outdated CPU (1GHz). Most of us could pick up this hardware for a couple hundred dollars and there is nothing special about it except for the Micro/ITX form factor.

Did the thought of licensing Digital Fidelity's Mining/Database software with your customizations cross your mind so that customers did not need another appliance and to cut down costs? Was this not an option through your licensing agreement with them? Your apparent $3000 MSDP (Manufacurer Suggested Dealer Price) is pretty steep compared to a Request Server that does the same job with out the extra storge required.

This is not a flame but more of a question as to why you did it this way, perhaps some light may be shed upon an area I may have misunderstood.

2. Also, there seems to be rumors of a price drop. Can these rumors be confirmed?

Thanks,
styxx
post #260 of 447
Bump...

I am still waiting for an answer. Where have all the Netstreams guys gone?
Perhaps they were at CEDIA. =)
post #261 of 447
Quote:


1. Why did you decide to create a dedicated computer for the Streaming Music Manager (SMM100)?
According to these specs, it is a simple computer with a mediocre chipset (VIA) and a value, if not, outdated CPU (1GHz). Most of us could pick up this hardware for a couple hundred dollars and there is nothing special about it except for the Micro/ITX form factor.

You are correct that the SMM is a PC-based appliance. We chose the specific hardware to match the needs of the embedded software.

Quote:


Did the thought of licensing Digital Fidelity's Mining/Database software with your customizations cross your mind so that customers did not need another appliance and to cut down costs? Was this not an option through your licensing agreement with them? Your apparent $3000 MSDP (Manufacurer Suggested Dealer Price) is pretty steep compared to a Request Server that does the same job with out the extra storge required.

I can't speak to our agreement with Digital Fidelity, but I can say that the appliance model is better because we can control the quality, in the software model we have to take into account lots of additional variables that drive up the cost of support and design, and lengthen the time to market.

The comparison to ReQuest is inevitable but also inaccurate. The SMM serves a different market (we still work extensively with RQ). RQ is for people who want a central, managed, music store. SMM is for users who don't want or need that capability and want to manage their music collection where it lives - on their PC's. Plus, dealers can build end users a NAS and upgrade the storage over time much cheaper than through other media server options. The economics of the SMM, when you consider the current and future cost of storage vs. being locked into a certain size with a media server, bear out.

Quote:


Also, there seems to be rumors of a price drop. Can these rumors be confirmed?

Sorry, I cannot speak to pricing online, since we do not have a MSRP (we do not sell at retail).
post #262 of 447
Paul,
Thanks for the reply.
Anything new coming down the pipe? Such as 3rd party compatibilty integration?
post #263 of 447
In the last month, we just released a 3rd party API that allows dealers to write drivers for any RS-232 controllable subsystem. So now you should be able to interface your NetStreams system with almost anything.
post #264 of 447
you have to love this new marketing stragegy by manufacturers. I know some of the scaler forums have manufacturers participating but over the past year we have seen quite a few manufacturers playing here. I must have missed Paul when I toured the Netsteams booth. Or maybe I was paying too much attention to Petra.

Alan
post #265 of 447
For most of the show I was out walking the floor, so we missed each other. Hope you did get a chance to see some of the new stuff, like IP Video, DoorLinX, and Streaming Music Manager.
post #266 of 447
Audiblesolutions,
I hear ya, getting the info from the people that know is definitely a luxury. From my experience it seems that getting good customer service or even being connected with the person requires jumping through hoops.

Paul, we appreciate your activity in these forums.
So, Doorlinx? Thats not on your website yet is it? Could you elaborate on what this is and how it works?
post #267 of 447
DoorLinX is a product we showed for the first time at CEDIA. It is the world's first IP-based Door Station. It has a doorbell and intercom function, integrates with IP cameras, and has a door strike relay to allow users to remotely open the door. You can set your doorbell to your choice of MP3 and have it play throughout the house on the DigiLinX system.

You'll see it on our website soon.
post #268 of 447
Paul,

what are the differences between Panaorama and the new video distribution system you just announced?
post #269 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiblesolutions View Post

Or maybe I was paying too much attention to Petra.

When I saw her all she wanted to talk about was surfing. Go figure.
post #270 of 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by charris View Post

Paul,

what are the differences between Panaorama and the new video distribution system you just announced?

In a nutshell, Panorama is analog video distribution and IP-Video is digital. In Panorama, there is a central Video Distribution Center (like a matrix switch with IR routing and intelligence), that all the sources connect to, and from the VDC you hook up video ports over Ethernet that output component (or S-Video, or composite). The VDC can be externally controlled by RS-232 but it is a centralized model and your limit is the amount of sources and displays supported by Panorama (4x6 for one unit, stackable to >4x100)

In IP-Video, there is no limit. Each source gets an encoder box, which takes in component and packages it up on the network. Video is routed via TCP/IP over a gigabit Ethernet switch, to a decoder at each display location, which outputs component (or S-Video, or composite). Your only limit is how many decoders and encoders you need. You can broadcast one source to 20 displays or 10 sources to 10 displays. Each display can watch something different, or all the same, with no quality loss. Video is sent uncompressed over the network. Plus once the signal is on the network there will be some cool stuff we can do like overlays and other FX.
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