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NetStreams Questions - Page 14

post #391 of 447
12/9/07 at 4:56pm
Does anyone have experience with the MLA4000 MediaLinx? I have heard that it has some problems. Has anyone experienced problems. I haven't used one yet and was maybe going to add one to an install because it is cheaper and more space efficient than discrete MediaLinx/ControlLinx boxes. But if it has issues or limitations maybe it would best to stay away from it.
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post #392 of 447
12/9/07 at 5:56pm
Your server choice will probably come down to how you buy music (and how much) and what kind of music you listen to.
Well, and timing too... If you need it in th next month or so here in the U.S. you won't have the NaimNet option so it would be ReQuest, Imerge or Escient.
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post #393 of 447
12/9/07 at 5:58pm
The MLA4000 is more cost and space efficient. It is not as powerful as the individual units (it cannot proxy streams and does not hold as many total codes) but in most installations this is not a concern.
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post #394 of 447
12/9/07 at 7:21pm
Buzz, sorry for all the questions again. One other question, an idea if Kalidescape systems will work on a Netstreams in the future or even now? Not a dealer killer, just wondering.

Thanks
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post #395 of 447
12/9/07 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot View Post

Any hints at what features these might have?
Leaning towards the ReQuest at this point.


My problem with them is that they make a big deal about all the balanced output, etc.. If its all networked via Cat5e, then none of that means anything to me. I have a free standing audio stack for "critical listening" (I really don't take it that seriously), so everything else is network. The Naimnet deal seems to really facilitate this network distribution. I would also note that ReQuest servers are not gigabit, so I guess there could be some bandwidth constraint if you really pushed it, especially when you get into higher bandwidth video.
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post #396 of 447
12/10/07 at 5:32am
Slapshot,

You could have your dealer put in one or more audio ports (or EIM - RCA cables) and hook up a PC to get some music playing until you decide which music server to get. The PC also provides you with the option of listening to the wide array of free internet streams through Windows media player. There is also a media player called WinAmp that is providing a good subset of the XM satellite radio stations for free.

Of course, you wouldn't have control of the PC through NetStrerams keypads but it is an option especially if one of your zones is a room that has a PC.
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post #397 of 447
12/10/07 at 5:48am
And to add to my previous post. If you are thinking about getting a music server here are some pros and cons to the different types as I see it.

Request/Escient/Imerge/SMM Pros:
Very nice integration with NetStreams
Provides multiple streams
Music stays digital until it is sent to the speakers (better music quality)
Playlists can be built and displayed on NetStreams keypads
Current song/cover art is displayed on keypads

Request/Escient/Imerge Cons:
No integrated backup system. However, Request has an additional piece of equipment to aid in backing up your music. The other may have something but these options tend to be expensive and not generally useful.

Additonal SMM pros:
Flexibility in storage location of your music. You may have/want your music on different PCs/iPods etc. The SMM will catalog all of it and make it available to the system.
You could also centralize your music on one PC/server and use a good backup software to backup the music to an additional hard drive in the PC or to another PC. HP makes a real nice home server now that runs Windows Home Server that is designed for automatically keeping backups of not just music but all of your files on all of your computers.
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post #398 of 447
12/10/07 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmilin View Post

And to add to my previous post. If you are thinking about getting a music server here are some pros and cons to the different types as I see it.

Request/Escient/Imerge/SMM Pros:
Very nice integration with NetStreams
Provides multiple streams
Music stays digital until it is sent to the speakers (better music quality)
Playlists can be built and displayed on NetStreams keypads
Current song/cover art is displayed on keypads

Request/Escient/Imerge Cons:
No integrated backup system. However, Request has an additional piece of equipment to aid in backing up your music. The other may have something but these options tend to be expensive and not generally useful.

Additonal SMM pros:
Flexibility in storage location of your music. You may have/want your music on different PCs/iPods etc. The SMM will catalog all of it and make it available to the system.
You could also centralize your music on one PC/server and use a good backup software to backup the music to an additional hard drive in the PC or to another PC. HP makes a real nice home server now that runs Windows Home Server that is designed for automatically keeping backups of not just music but all of your files on all of your computers.

Thanks for your help!
Definitely all valid points to consider, and I have been reading about that server from HP/MS. It is a very compelling unit,and is priced rather reasonable I think. It still necessitates having the smm 100,and one great advantage about the server is it is good for all types of files,media,pictures,etc.

I do have multiple computers all with their own separate music collections,and it would be really nice to integrate them and backup all on one server.
How well does this play with Itunes though? All of my music is on that,and two of my pc's run Media Center 05,which is seemingly a prerequisite.
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post #399 of 447
12/10/07 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yetis View Post

Buzz, sorry for all the questions again. One other question, an idea if Kalidescape systems will work on a Netstreams in the future or even now? Not a dealer killer, just wondering.

Thanks


They don't seem to be that interested in tight integration. I think their long legal battle might have something to do with that.
We do have dealer who use it with DigiLinX and with Panorama, but it is not a native source.
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post #400 of 447
12/10/07 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot View Post

Thanks for your help!
Definitely all valid points to consider, and I have been reading about that server from HP/MS. It is a very compelling unit,and is priced rather reasonable I think. It still necessitates having the smm 100,and one great advantage about the server is it is good for all types of files,media,pictures,etc.

I do have multiple computers all with their own separate music collections,and it would be really nice to integrate them and backup all on one server.
How well does this play with Itunes though? All of my music is on that,and two of my pc's run Media Center 05,which is seemingly a prerequisite.

Isn't iTunes just an application on your PC that organizes and all of your music files? I would think it wouldn't matter to the SMM or to the server. One thing to consider is that you may need to use a different piece of software to create playlists for the SMM. Currently the SMM can read playlists saved in the now standard WinAmp playlist format (.m3u). iTunes should have a way to "export" your playlists to this format. If not, there are several free tools out there that can do it. Just put the exported playlist file in the same folder as the music and the SMM will read it and make it available to NetStreams. This is especially advantagous because you don't have to re-compile all of your playlists manually like you may need to do with a third party music server.

Another thing to consider is that NetStreams supports mp3 and wav file formats for music but the third party music servers only stream mp3 to NetStreams. The SMM can stream wav and mp3 I believe. (someone correct me if I am wrong on this.) You could get around this by encoding your music in mp3 at the highest bit rate though to get the best sound quality.

Not sure about the need for Media Center 05. What do you use this for? I don't think it is required for MS Home Server. Unless you are talking about streaming music from the server to the PCs?
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post #401 of 447
12/10/07 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz Goddard View Post

The MLA4000 is more cost and space efficient. It is not as powerful as the individual units (it cannot proxy streams and does not hold as many total codes) but in most installations this is not a concern.

What do you mean doesn't hold as many total codes?
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post #402 of 447
12/10/07 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmilin View Post

Isn't iTunes just an application on your PC that organizes and all of your music files? I would think it wouldn't matter to the SMM or to the server. One thing to consider is that you may need to use a different piece of software to create playlists for the SMM. Currently the SMM can read playlists saved in the now standard WinAmp playlist format (.m3u). iTunes should have a way to "export" your playlists to this format. If not, there are several free tools out there that can do it. Just put the exported playlist file in the same folder as the music and the SMM will read it and make it available to NetStreams. This is especially advantagous because you don't have to re-compile all of your playlists manually like you may need to do with a third party music server.

Another thing to consider is that NetStreams supports mp3 and wav file formats for music but the third party music servers only stream mp3 to NetStreams. The SMM can stream wav and mp3 I believe. (someone correct me if I am wrong on this.) You could get around this by encoding your music in mp3 at the highest bit rate though to get the best sound quality.

Not sure about the need for Media Center 05. What do you use this for? I don't think it is required for MS Home Server. Unless you are talking about streaming music from the server to the PCs?

From the HP FAQ:


""Does the HP MediaSmart Server allow for file sharing beyond the immediate LAN via FTP or other methods?

You can remotely access files from the server and individual PC's on your home network. For example, you might want to access a document on the server while traveling on business. Or, you might want to remotely access a contact from Outlook or an invoice amount from QuickBooks running on your PC. (For remote computer access, the network computer must be running Windows® XP Professional, Media Center Edition 2005 or Windows® Vista Ultimate.) You can also easily share photos with selected friends and relatives with HP's Photo Webshare feature. You can also setup a Guest account for your HP MediaSmart Server and allow selected visitors to access files from your HP MediaSmart Server.""

May not need MC 05 if it's the local network,but definitely need it if you are concerned about remote access.

Also;

""Does the HP MediaSmart Server work with Apple and Linux-based systems?

The HP MediaSmart Server can be used as a file server for Mac and Linux computers. You can backup to the HP MediaSmart Server from these systems with your own backup software that runs on Mac and Linux systems.

The HP MediaSmart Server has a Server for iTunes feature whereby you can automatically copy iTunes music from family members' PCs to the HP MediaSmart Server to be easily shared around your home network. The Server for iTunes feature even preserves playlists from each user's PC. The Server for iTunes feature will synchronize new music to the server as that music is added to individual PCs. Music on the server can then be accessed from each individual PC's iTunes library. Note that the MediaSmart Server does not count as one of the five playback devices in iTunes. The Server for iTunes feature is designed for sharing music across the local network only.""

Again,ok for local network,but not for remote access.

Really not a deal breaker for me.
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post #403 of 447
12/10/07 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot View Post

From the HP FAQ:


""Does the HP MediaSmart Server allow for file sharing beyond the immediate LAN via FTP or other methods?

You can remotely access files from the server and individual PC's on your home network. For example, you might want to access a document on the server while traveling on business. Or, you might want to remotely access a contact from Outlook or an invoice amount from QuickBooks running on your PC. (For remote computer access, the network computer must be running Windows® XP Professional, Media Center Edition 2005 or Windows® Vista Ultimate.) You can also easily share photos with selected friends and relatives with HP's Photo Webshare feature. You can also setup a Guest account for your HP MediaSmart Server and allow selected visitors to access files from your HP MediaSmart Server.""

May not need MC 05 if it's the local network,but definitely need it if you are concerned about remote access.

Also;

""Does the HP MediaSmart Server work with Apple and Linux-based systems?

The HP MediaSmart Server can be used as a file server for Mac and Linux computers. You can backup to the HP MediaSmart Server from these systems with your own backup software that runs on Mac and Linux systems.

The HP MediaSmart Server has a Server for iTunes feature whereby you can automatically copy iTunes music from family members' PCs to the HP MediaSmart Server to be easily shared around your home network. The Server for iTunes feature even preserves playlists from each user's PC. The Server for iTunes feature will synchronize new music to the server as that music is added to individual PCs. Music on the server can then be accessed from each individual PC's iTunes library. Note that the MediaSmart Server does not count as one of the five playback devices in iTunes. The Server for iTunes feature is designed for sharing music across the local network only.""

Again,ok for local network,but not for remote access.

Really not a deal breaker for me.

So you want to access music remotely sounds like. There are ways to do that directly from your PC. Even the Request unit has that feature. If you choose to go the route of the SMM and the HP server could you use iTunes to access music remotely?
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post #404 of 447
12/10/07 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz Goddard View Post

No, we will not be attempting to support a piece of software on general purpose PC's. The SMM functinality is in a dedicated purpose-built machine.


Event Management is big in 2008 plans but no specific date has been announced.

Buzz,

Do you think the SMM could be expanded to connect to the Internet to access the vast array of Internet streams available. Seems like if the SMM was able to access the Internet and allowed a way for dealers or even users to set the urls of some of these streams, they could be controlled and digitally integrated in the system.
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post #405 of 447
12/10/07 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz Goddard View Post

They don't seem to be that interested in tight integration. I think their long legal battle might have something to do with that.
We do have dealer who use it with DigiLinX and with Panorama, but it is not a native source.

Buzz, FYI.

-----Original Message-----
From: support-user [mailto:support-user@kaleidescape.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: Integration with Netstreams Digilinx

Hello xxx, we do not currently have a Digilinx driver. Several dealers have requested one, I added your comments to the existing engineering feature request. I have also forwarded your email to our Control Systems team.

Casey Benjamin
Kaleidescape Support
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post #406 of 447
12/10/07 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmilin View Post

So you want to access music remotely sounds like. There are ways to do that directly from your PC. Even the Request unit has that feature. If you choose to go the route of the SMM and the HP server could you use iTunes to access music remotely?

Actually,no I am not needing to remotely access. I was just answering your question on why one would need Media Center 05 regarding this HP Home server.

Bottom line,either one will work for me,ReQuest or the MS Home Server.
Cost wise, combination of the HP and the smm100 would be seemingly much cheaper,byte for byte than a ReQuest 2 or 4 zone server with a comparable storage capacity of 500gb or 1 TB. Not to mention not having to get a license fee of $100 for each pc that the ReQuest needs to run Netsync with Itunes.
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post #407 of 447
12/10/07 at 2:30pm
According to Naim, they will have a working demo of the entry level Naim-Net audio server with the launch software at CES this year! No word on the rest of the product line. However, it sounds like the distribution and roll out to dealers and such is going to take a little while. The latter part not a surprise to me as I have yet to find a Naim dealer that is a Netstream installer or even has anything beyond a cursory knowledge of the NaimNet.

Finally some forward movement on this front. Its only a year or so delayed...
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post #408 of 447
12/10/07 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot View Post

Actually,no I am not needing to remotely access. I was just answering your question on why one would need Media Center 05 regarding this HP Home server.

Bottom line,either one will work for me,ReQuest or the MS Home Server.
Cost wise, combination of the HP and the smm100 would be seemingly much cheaper,byte for byte than a ReQuest 2 or 4 zone server with a comparable storage capacity of 500gb or 1 TB. Not to mention not having to get a license fee of $100 for each pc that the ReQuest needs to run Netsync with Itunes.

The home server/SMM combination also leaves the door open to other uses of the SMM that they can dream up. To me this box (SMM) is the gateway to getting digital content in other forms onto the StreamNet network that NetStreams uses.

When copmparing the Request vs the other equipment, keep in mind that you would only need a single zone Request since you don't use the zone outputs with Netstreams. The music comes out of the Network port of the device. Also, to get backup/disk mirroring capability with the Request you would also need to buy their Echo product, which I think is more expensive than just buying an additional hard drive for the HP server.
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post #409 of 447
12/10/07 at 5:21pm
This looks kind of promising. Seems like it could really bridge the gap. Its even IP based. Only downside is that it looks like they really want you to use their storage.

http://www.audtek.com/pdf/Sooloos/Sooloos-Onesheets.pdf
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post #410 of 447
12/10/07 at 5:56pm
There is indeed some untapped processing power in the SMM.
Stay Tuned!
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post #411 of 447
12/13/07 at 7:22pm
Buzz,

any thoughts about native integration of the Rhapsody music service into Digilinx? I would love to be able to get access to this service with meta data about song and artist displaying on the touch panels. Thanks.
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post #412 of 447
1/28/08 at 3:17pm
Got my Netstreams up and (almost) running,have a question on how to enable Windows Media Player in Vista to share to the SMM100. I can share my other XP pc's fine, but I can't get this one to open up,any ideas?
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post #413 of 447
1/28/08 at 4:31pm
It is not certified to work with Vista.

Your dealer can make sure the shares are properly setup and active and online. If he does not enable the sharing to take place then it won't be shared.

Larry
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post #414 of 447
1/29/08 at 6:12am
I see. He's coming by today,I'll have him check.

I plan on having a networked attached server,like Windows Home server from HP,would the smm have any issues with that? What you suggested a few months ago is what I'm aiming for. I like the idea of a centralized server that I can leave on 24/7 rather than a bunch of pc's.
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post #415 of 447
1/29/08 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot View Post

I see. He's coming by today,I'll have him check.

I plan on having a networked attached server,like Windows Home server from HP,would the smm have any issues with that? What you suggested a few months ago is what I'm aiming for. I like the idea of a centralized server that I can leave on 24/7 rather than a bunch of pc's.

I would be interested to know how the MS Home server works with the SMM. I am working on getting an MS home server setup.

I recently bought the SMM and have it streaming music from just one Win XP PC for now. It is working but I am seeing all of my songs listed twice. Anybody else have this happen? My dealer doesn't know why either.
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post #416 of 447
1/29/08 at 10:54am
Micheal,

This is why I get paid the big bucks!!!!

Do not use NAS since we have window home server. I have one and it works period. Go to www.wegetserved.com to learn more.

As far as double songs I know the issue but you need to give more information on how you burned your songs, to how many computers,using ipods etc etc . Your dealer should be familar with this. This is a reason for a centralized source. I use smm100 with windows media 11 and burn and go.

I burn all my music to .wav. There is a huge difference in sound quality with NS with good speakers using .wav vs mp3. This is the number one reason people go with NS over most other products. My current customer had Crestron with Triad speakers and mp3 and now has NS Digilinx with Triad speakers and .wav and can't believe the difference in sound quality.

NS is working on a Vista solution also but it might take time to get it correct.

Larry
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post #417 of 447
1/29/08 at 12:33pm
Larry,

All of my songs are mp3. I do have wav files too but they are backed up on CDs at the moment. Since I already have double songs I didn't want to add more to the mix until I figure out the double song issue. My dealer has conceeded that he does not know much about the music manager since he never installed one before mine.

So anyway, a lot of my mp3 music was downloaded from various sites like Napster, audio galaxy and the like. I have updated the ID3 tags on every song to make sure that they are correct with WinAmp. All of the songs play fine in WinAmp.

Currently, I have all of my music files (mp3) on one Win XP PC in one shared folder. I hooked up a monitor to the SMM and it shows that share is available. I know for a fact that I do not have two copies of any one song on this PC.

Do you have any other suggestions before I have my dealer come out again.

Oh. BTW your link does not work. Do you mean the www.wegotserved.com site.
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post #418 of 447
1/29/08 at 1:34pm
I think it's
http://www.wegotserved.co.uk/
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post #419 of 447
1/29/08 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkosova View Post

Micheal,

This is why I get paid the big bucks!!!!

Do not use NAS since we have window home server. I have one and it works period. Go to www.wegetserved.com to learn more.

As far as double songs I know the issue but you need to give more information on how you burned your songs, to how many computers,using ipods etc etc . Your dealer should be familar with this. This is a reason for a centralized source. I use smm100 with windows media 11 and burn and go.

I burn all my music to .wav. There is a huge difference in sound quality with NS with good speakers using .wav vs mp3. This is the number one reason people go with NS over most other products. My current customer had Crestron with Triad speakers and mp3 and now has NS Digilinx with Triad speakers and .wav and can't believe the difference in sound quality.

NS is working on a Vista solution also but it might take time to get it correct.

Larry

I know,that's why I couldn't afford you!

As far as double songs,I was able to go back in my WMP library and edit some info,for some reason I had duplicates in WMP. I think when I added folders to that,over time,I added some duplicate folders.
I'm trying to use just WMP on one computer for this,and eliminate the duplicates. I also unshared my Itunes as that was contributing also.
I have 3 folders that are shared on my main pc (XP),one is My Music,the other is the pc mapped to a network drive (which I recall doing a couple of years ago),and the other is another shared music folder of my pc.
I've managed to clean up a lot of this today.

All my ripped songs were ripped Apple lossless,then imported into WMP. Downloads of course are VBR mp3.
Anything new I'm ripping is at wav.

Does WHS play nice with Vista? I'm thinking it does,but....
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post #420 of 447
1/29/08 at 4:30pm
Pmilin,

Your dealer should not be using products that he does not know. Sorry to sound harsh here. There is no reason that he can not call Tech support and get help with this very basic issue. Netstreams has an outstanding "dealer" tech support staff willing and able to solve this issue for you.

Also you as the consumer (yes, I know you guys are do it yourselfers) should not be hooking anything up to the smm100 or playing around with any portion of Netstreams. This is not meant to be a consumer system. What you are seeing on the Moniter means in reality very little and your dealer would need to know where to go in the setup to view what is going on with the smm100. There is training for this and again very basic.

If he can't solve this very basic issue you might be in store for a not so great experience. You , as a consumer, should not have to ever go on the net and try to solve your own issues with this product.

As an example, when I sell a smm100 with server, I go through the music collection and go through the music folders, Ipod music etc and spend time making sure that the folder, album jpg, etc is set up correctly. This is where the extra value comes in and why should you have to do this anyway??? I do not sell a Digilinx and have anyone listen to mp3's. All music has to be converted to .wav for my clientele. Yes, with this system you CAN hear the difference with good speakers.

Again, without seeing your music folders it is hard to say where your problem lies but your dealer "should" be able to assist you and at the least call tech support for help. This is a pretty basic issue.

http://www.wegotserved.co.uk/ I guess that is correct if it takes you to the site (I don't memorize these sites) you guys are tough.......

All the best,

Larry
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