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Hitachi tweaks Q&A thread - Page 2

post #31 of 430
9/11/03 at 12:52pm
Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
I like to center the sliders at 50%. Except for contrast, which I set to 75%. Once you set SUBCNT and SUBBRT in SM, you really don't have to worry about the set being in torch mode and burning-in (or the wife and kids turning contrast up to 100% before you can intervene).

so set everything in the color mgt and color decoding menus to 50, along with everything in the main menu, except for contrast? and once SUBCNT and SUBBRT are changed, do you just leave the contrast settings up around 75% or do you bring it back down using Avia? or does it even matter.....do the ISF changes remove the torch mode extreme burn in risk?

right now i have SUBCNT0 brought down from 12 to 05, and SUB-BRT brought down from 83 to 7F. i made those changes while watching normal programming, not using Avia, with my contrast set around 25% or so. should i change the user menu settings like you said, and change only the ISF settings while using an Avia test pattern?

thanks.....still a newbie....just trying to figure it all out
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post #32 of 430
9/11/03 at 1:00pm
Greetings

Here's another odd one.

With the Bravo sending out 1080i via DVI ... the SWX Hitachi colour decoder parameters affected were the ones normally associated with 480P and not the 1080i parameters. To optimize DVI colour decoding, you have to adjust the 480P items ...

Regards
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post #33 of 430
9/11/03 at 2:44pm
Dumb question following...but where...in all of the sharpness corrections...is the actualy user menu sharpness set?
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post #34 of 430
9/11/03 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by jdoe7890
I have attached some photographs of the screen with skewed lines. Please advise. This is a 57S500.

That is not too bad. I'd ask them to send a tech out with a grid to fix it. Or order a grid and fix it myself. No reason to exchange the whole TV IMO.
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post #35 of 430
9/11/03 at 4:09pm
Thread Starter 
I've been tied up today...i'll try to answer more questions later tonight if I get some time...hopefully, someone will beat me to it.
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post #36 of 430
9/11/03 at 4:37pm
Quote:


is the actualy user menu sharpness set?

It usually falls between 30 and 45.

Bill
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post #37 of 430
9/11/03 at 4:43pm
Quote:


Should I calibrate the green first?

Yes, if you are fixing geometry. It is easier to see with only one color up.

Quote:


If so, how do I compare the red (and blue for that matter) and align it with green? Do I use the color swaping buttons to go back and forth?

When you are in the geometry mode (hitting menu and info will bring up only green), you can put red against green by hitting "0" and blue against green by hitting "ant".

Quote:


Also, the blue seems to have really blurry edges on it, and I can always see it on either side of the white convergence gridlines.

Do you notice a blue hue when viewing material? I am a proponent of defocusing blue on the hitachi because of the nasty hue around a tightly focused blue (not because of light output). It has been know to cause a hue around items in your viewing material.



Bill
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post #38 of 430
9/11/03 at 5:07pm
Jdoe:

My 51SWX20B looked just like your TV before I fixed the geometry using service level convergence. It looked great when I was done! I would highly recommend you just fix it yourself. You will want to know how to do this when your convergence slips out of alignement in the furture (and it will over time).

John
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post #39 of 430
9/11/03 at 7:03pm
Can you list the instructions to perform a service level convergence to fix the geometry problem.
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post #40 of 430
9/11/03 at 7:39pm
The first post has a link to a post that has the DCAM convergence instructions. I don't know if instructions are there for getting only green. Once you get into DCAM, hit menu followed by info. You will now only have green. After getting geometry correct, you want to hit "0" to put up red. Converge red with green. Do the same for blue by hitting "ant". When done, hit menu for older sets to get all colors back up. For the S500, you will have to hit menu several times to get back. The S500 will also allow you to display AVIA crosshatch while doing convergence (you will still be able to see the DCAM crosshatch). I think you have to hit menu a few times when you get in DCAM. I don't remember the exact number. This is a nice feature for fine tuning convergence.

You should order a template from the link provided by Marc to fully correct Geometry. If you buy a grid, you might also think about centering the magnets on the CRTs. You will have to zero out convergence, center the magnets and rebuild geometry/convergence. Start in coarse adjustment and work your way to fine adjustment.
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post #41 of 430
9/11/03 at 9:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by gambrelw
I am a proponent of defocusing blue on the hitachi because of the nasty hue around a tightly focused blue (not because of light output). It has been know to cause a hue around items in your viewing material.

Can you give some more details on this? I am an advocate of focusing blue as tightly as possible, what is this side effect you see on the Hitachi?
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post #42 of 430
9/11/03 at 9:35pm
Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Can you give some more details on this? I am an advocate of focusing blue as tightly as possible, what is this side effect you see on the Hitachi?

Electro defocus only...

Manual lense focus as tight as possible
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post #43 of 430
9/11/03 at 9:39pm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...07#post2662407

here is your Link Marc
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post #44 of 430
9/11/03 at 9:40pm
If you focus tightly and look at the dot crosshatch pattern, you will notice a strong purple hue around the bright blue lines. The only way to get rid of it is a slight defocus. Depending on how bad the particular set is, it can really be visible in the picture around white lettering or dark objects. If you can tighten blue without an adverse affect on the picture, then tighten it as much as you can.

Bill
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post #45 of 430
9/11/03 at 9:50pm
Thread Starter 
From the Blue Focus thread
Quote:


Originally posted by gambrelw
One thing I forgot to mention from my testing last night was that I did not see the blue hue in the crosshatch dot pattern when I did the manual/electronic focus. The blue hue on black is only present in tight groupings of circles like the User menu manual convergence screen on the Hitachi. Therefore, I believe it is better to use a dot pattern where there are lots of circles/light to do the focus. That way use know how you are affecting black with your focus adjustments.

Bill

I will start using the dot crosshatch from now on for focus. Thanks guys, I think I've learned more in the last 3 days than I have over the last year.
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post #46 of 430
9/12/03 at 1:27am
this thread and the others kick serious ass, up until a ways back i was a toshiba panasonic fan boy that had both those calibrations down to a tee

i am officially tired of ****** build cheap ass rptvs so on that note my 57s500 will be arriving in a little over a week, just in time to let it settle a week and get it calibrated to perfection in time for hockey season

thanks a bunch for these threads guys, oh yeah keep the tweaks coming
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post #47 of 430
9/12/03 at 4:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Gary Murrell
this thread and the others kick serious ass, up until a ways back i was a toshiba panasonic fan boy that had both those calibrations down to a tee

Welcome to the club, you won't regret it. This is coming from a former Panasonic (PT56WXF95a) and Toshiba (34HD82) owner.
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post #48 of 430
9/12/03 at 5:18am
Thread Starter 
It has often been said that the benefits are not so great on the Hitachi on DVD with interlaced component vs. progressive input.

I am able to see the improvement of 480p over 480i on a JVC DVD player, but that is because the JVCs have a poor interlaced output. The interlaced output from my Panny A-120 matches the progressive picture of the JVC (the JVC has an excellent output, no chroma bug, just with a bit of high frequency rolloff). The one drawback of interlaced is that subtitles tend to comb if the Hitachi movie mode is doing the 3-2 pulldown detection.

3-2 pulldown is the process in which 24 progressive frames/s is converted to 60 interlaced fields/s. Progressive DVD players and TV film/movie modes detect this and restore back to progressive frames and display as 60p frames/s.

Because of this combing, I recommended Tbass2k pickup one of the Panasonic DCDi players (RP-82/XP-30/XP-50) on ebay (all but impossible to find retail since discontinuation). The X-P30 he purchased is nothing short of amazing on his 57S500.

I have long said that the 540p upconverted output of the Hitachi is close but not up to par with the native 480p performance of the Mitsubishis. On the S500, the XP30 is definitely equal if not better than a Mits combined with a JVC. This has prompted me to start looking for a player of my own with such a good progressive output.

I have listed the "affordable" players below with great outputs (according to http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...on-9-2000.html)

#1 - Panasonic RP-82/XP-30/XP-50 - virtually identical: excellent ouptput (2ms Y/C delay), DCDi deinterlacing for non-film, XP-30 has no DVD-A, discontinued and hard to find

#2 - Pansonic RP-91 - excellent output (slightly better than #1?!?), aspect ratio control, DVD-A, no DCDi (inferior Genesis deinterlacing for non-film), discontinued but available (bumps this down to #2 for me)

#3 - Denon 1600 (excellent output with just a bit more Y/C delay (5ms) and a touch of high frequency rolloff compared to 1&2, DCDi deinterlacing, readily available)

#4 - Panasonic CP-72 - same as XP-50 with a bit more Y/C delay than the others (10ms) and a frequency response comparable to the Denon, discontinued and hard to find

I know that posting this jeopardizes my ebay bids, but all is fair I guess. Enjoy
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post #49 of 430
9/12/03 at 5:37am
Quote:


Originally posted by Marc Alexander
#1 - Panasonic RP-82/XP-30/XP-50 - virtually identical: excellent ouptput (2ms Y/C delay), DCDi deinterlacing for non-film, XP-30 has no DVD-A, discontinued and hard to find

#2 - Pansonic RP-91 - excellent output (slightly better than #1?!?), aspect ratio control, DVD-A, no DCDi (inferior Genesis deinterlacing for non-film), discontinued but available (bumps this down to #2 for me)

#3 - Denon 1600 (excellent output with just a bit more Y/C delay (5ms) and a touch of high frequency rolloff compared to 1&2, DCDi deinterlacing, readily available)

#4 - Panasonic CP-72 - same as XP-50 with a bit more Y/C delay than the others (10ms) and a frequency response comparable to the Denon, discontinued and hard to find


discontinued, discontinued, redily available, discontinued.............

well to me this is one of the most dissapointing things in Home Theater right now. So what are the NEW players that are good. Hometheaterhifi needs to do some reviews on dvd players that are just coming out, so the rest of us who are in the market around Christmas time will have an idea of what we should buy.
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post #50 of 430
9/12/03 at 7:26am
Marc-

I have a Panny DVD72S... and it has an excellent 480p picture.
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post #51 of 430
9/12/03 at 7:52am
I was really down on the Bravo D1 after the first time I saw it during a calibration. However, I only viewed 1080i mode and saw massive jitter. I realized it was probably a scaling issue, so I thought I would test for it the next time around. I came up on a Momitsu (same processing as Bravo) and switched between 1080i and 480p DVI out. The 480p performed flawlessly during the five minutes of viewing while the 1080i still had the same scaling artifacts. I didn't see any abnormal artifacting when running test patterns in 480p.

So, many are probably wondering what the benefit is of using 480p DVI? The direct digital path is one reason, but not the main. The benefit to DVI 480p is that you reduce one D/A and A/D conversion. If the signal is sent to the Hitachi digitally, the Hitachi will not have to digitize the signal when scaling it, utimately reducing potential artifacting. If you send an analog signal, the Hitachi will have to digitize it, scale it, and convert it back to analog. Hope this helps.

This was just one short test, but any of you Bravo D1/Hitachi owners might want to run it.

Just my 2 cents.

Bill
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post #52 of 430
9/12/03 at 9:49am
I like the DVD player list. BUT..............

I would switch the order of #2 and #3

Joel

My .02 Cents

I know where you can still get a Panny CP72s
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post #53 of 430
9/12/03 at 9:50am
Guys and Gals,

I have read countless case studies from proponents of getting an RPTV set calibrated professionally.

After doing convergence, and tweaking color decoder and other various settings in the HIT 57TWX20B Service Menu (colorgo for red push, lime green corrections, G cut to remove green from greys and dark areas) I am fairly satisfied with my picture.

My question is if I get a pro (Gregg L. is headed to Houston in November) to calibrate my set at this point, for $400, is it worth it, and is it going to make that much of a difference.
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post #54 of 430
9/12/03 at 11:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Joel Solid
I like the DVD player list. BUT..............

I would switch the order of #2 and #3

Because of DCDi I presume?

Quote:


I know where you can still get a Panny CP72s

Let us in on it, Mike Fusick won't give me his
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post #55 of 430
9/12/03 at 11:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by pillguy
Guys and Gals,

I have read countless case studies from proponents of getting an RPTV set calibrated professionally.

After doing convergence, and tweaking color decoder and other various settings in the HIT 57TWX20B Service Menu (colorgo for red push, lime green corrections, G cut to remove green from greys and dark areas) I am fairly satisfied with my picture.

My question is if I get a pro (Gregg L. is headed to Houston in November) to calibrate my set at this point, for $400, is it worth it, and is it going to make that much of a difference.

Have you done focus yet? Generally, Greg won't charge the full rate if he doesn't have as much work to do. Sounds like you've done alot yourself. The one thing you cannot do yourself that you need a professional for is grayscale. At least get him to do that, the other stuff you can do decently yourself.
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post #56 of 430
9/12/03 at 11:42am
I have not done focus. What is it, how is it done, and can you post any links on the procedures for the HIT TWX5720B? I am eager to learn.
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post #57 of 430
9/12/03 at 12:08pm
i'm also looking for a decent first-timer guide for manual/electronic focus and convergence for an S500.

still looking for an answer to my question about ISF menu/Avia calibration -- do you set all the user menu settings to 50% (except contrast.....about 75%), then go through all the Avia basic test patterns using the ISF menu settings? if so, is there a good list or description to correlate the ISF listings with the color and other user menu settings so i can tell which settings to change for each test pattern?

the more i read, the more i realize the less i know
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post #58 of 430
9/12/03 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
It's all here [link below] guys, you may have to do alot of reading to find it...but its there.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=273639
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post #59 of 430
9/12/03 at 2:53pm
Thread Starter 
Focus assist (MUST DO TWEAK!!!):

All focus procedures apply to all Hitachis

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=181474

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=197296
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post #60 of 430
9/12/03 at 3:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by dogongt
still looking for an answer to my question about ISF menu/Avia calibration -- do you set all the user menu settings to 50% (except contrast.....about 75%), then go through all the Avia basic test patterns using the ISF menu settings? if so, is there a good list or description to correlate the ISF listings with the color and other user menu settings so i can tell which settings to change for each test pattern?

That is what I do...it is really up to you and your personal preference.

AVIA and ISF Color Decoder adjustment

BLUE COLOR BARS
COLOR (Saturation)
TINT (Hue)

RED COLOR BARS
RY-PH Phase (Hue)
R/B-GA Gain (Saturation)

GREEN COLOR BARS
GY-PH Phase (Hue)
G/B-GA Gain (Saturation)
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