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Dish Network 811 News (Old topic - PVR 921, 811 & 5000 News) - Page 2  

post #31 of 1126
There is what looks to be a D-VHS record button on the 921 remote. Hopefully, we'll be able to use it sooner rather than later. :)
post #32 of 1126
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""
did we ever confirm if the dump from hard drive, will be allowed for copy once flagged content recorded to the hard drive?
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On the beta test units with Firewire enabled, yes, that is how it works and is how it will work with 5C content, of which nothing will be for quite some time apparently. Even HD-PPV will not be 5C off the bat.

To quote The Princess Bride: "I hate waiting."


"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""

First thanks Matt for taking the time to answer, i hope you can be patient for one more inquiry, a specife clairifiction actually - i am slow in the head or over thinking what you wrote.. Not sure which but am sure it is my problem not your answer that is fualty

Guess those other very early inside sourced reports from the company designing it were wrong about copy once content not being dumpable despite 5c allowing it. Or we are assuming they are wrong? Your saying " and that is how it will work with 5c content", makes me wonder/question if it was actually tested with a 5c flagged stream. Or if the dump function in generally was the only thing tested in beta testing


So you are saying it was beta tested with a 5c copy once flagged "test stream" (snice 5c currently is not in use) and it dumped to dvhs; or it was testedwith a non 5c, and it is assuming that the dump will conform to 5c spec with regard to copy once flagged content dump. sorry to be so slow i could not tell specificly what you meant. -- Other then 5c will not be used for awhile. ( good news) tho someday i think it will.



If confirmed, that 5c copy once content dumps, now i will just patiently and happily wait -- i have this long and i like dish so why not. cable was looking very temping but i hate my cable co the took me to the bank for 10 months service i did use and had canceled. i get me back it will be the last of any possible resort

So what dvhs machine did it work with in beta, and if it did with some was it not reliable, and if it was i wonder why that dvhs machine is not support off the bat - i really wish it was
thanks again and sorry to everyone else
post #33 of 1126
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis

I was not quite sure I understood the bit about address brokers and the superdish install. Could not follow how they were related including the CBS-HD connection. I have a waiver on file and continue to get CBS-HD for $1.50. I don't know for how long because of the new court rulings, though.
Don,
If the requirement is the Superdishes MUST be professionally installed and people are using address brokers (to use a fake address in another part of the country to get certain programming that isn't allowed in their real home area) they will not be able to get the Superdish upgrades because an order to do so will send a installer out to the fake address they are using not the real one. Most local dealers won't try to do a install knowing the address is not what it is supposed to be (knowing it is illegal) as they can lose their Dish dealership if they get caught doing this (I know I am a Dish dealer). Local dealer/installers need to fill out forms with all the customers information to be submitted to Dish for equipment and installation reinbursements so the dealer DOES know what is up when they are asked to go to a address that doesn't match the customer's account info.
post #34 of 1126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
So you are saying it was beta tested with a 5c copy once flagged "test stream" (since 5c currently is not in use) and it dumped to dvhs; or it was tested with a non 5c, and it is assuming that the dump will conform to 5c spec with regard to copy once flagged content dump. sorry to be so slow i could not tell specifically what you meant. -- Other then 5c will not be used for awhile.
I did not specifically ask if it was tested with actual 5C content. I asked if dumping copy once material was allowed and was told, "yes, as of right now that is exactly how it will work because it is part of the 5C spec." I was also told that there was some pressure on E* to go beyond the 5C spec but they would not do it because they would be open to lawsuits from their customers.

Quote:
So what dvhs machine did it work with in beta, and if it did with some was it not reliable, and if it was i wonder why that dvhs machine is not support off the bat
The JVC30K works with the PVR921, but there are "Communication problems." Thinks like the PVR921 forgetting the 30K is there or not being able to send a record command from time to time.

As for the address broker situation, the only way to fix this is by "Moving" to your real address when it is time for the Superdish upgrade and then, say six months late, moving again and saying you will do a self install. The problem with that is, will E* say OK to anyone installing the Superdish they already own? They do not want anyone self installing anything anymore and in fact, want the new receivers "installed" by professionals.
post #35 of 1126
FrankS-

As you are an installer- how do you respond to installs where the cable runs are extremely difficult. In my case I have run my 4 cables through a very tight crawl space and since I know the path, I can run it myself in about 2 hours. The first time I did it the project took a half day. Would you recommend I run some cables myself for the Superdish, or let the installer suffer through it? The alternative I do not want is for an installer to come in and route the cables in the easiest path HE chooses that is unsightly. I have this image that the "proferssional installer" will do the minimum he has to just to get on to his next job.
Second- Are you being instructed to remove the old Dish 500 and use that mount? What about the 61.5 dish? I want to keep my 61.5 dish for some foreign programming options. How does that mesh with the superdish?
post #36 of 1126
thanks matt, dish is my best option, so i will assume everything will work eventually and get will the 921 on release. thanks again

good question don, i mite like to do the same with 61.5
post #37 of 1126
"The JVC30K works with the PVR921, but there are "Communication problems." Thinks like the PVR921 forgetting the 30K is there or not being able to send a record command from time to time. "

This is the same problem we have with 169Time connections. Don't have a JVC 30K but I know the Mits gets forgotten after a random period of time. Last week I stayed connected for the whole week. Then last night I went to record and it couldn't find the Mits. I reset everything and recorded. Played back fine. Early this morning I tried to record again and it forgot the Mits was connected. Didn't record! Next time it may stay connected for 3-5 days, who knows? What you report with the 921 is not uncommon, IMO.

Tony- I find it highly unlikely that the beta testers will have a laboratory of test generators that would be required for the kind of testing you describbed with 5C. They may have done some testing in the dev. lab but more likely, they probably just designed the code to implement the 5C spec and are done with it. What Matt was told as he just restated it was what I was told by Eldon Technologies earlier in the year and what he describbed about the JVC was the same I was told about the JVC except the part of the communications loss. I don't think it is worth worrying over (5C copy once issues) The 921 crashing is what concerns me. The rest of this stuff is nothing!

Matt- Did you happen to ask about future hard drive additions?
post #38 of 1126
(It was confirmed that the 6000 receiver cannot downconvert HD and therefore will always output full 1080i or 720p via component and RGB. Period. That is set in stone. One more reason to hold onto it. The analog RGB is perfect for non-DVI equipped projectors.)

Matt what exactly does this mean, that the 6000 cannot downconvert HD? What is the advantage of this? I thought about buying two 811's should I get one 6000 and one 811 for the reasons you mentioned? I do have a non-dvi hd projector, and a non-dvi hd tv in the other room.

Thanks
post #39 of 1126
""""""I asked if dumping copy once material was allowed and was told, "yes, as of right now that is exactly how it will work because it is part of the 5C spec." """""""""

sorry matt, i didn't understand/ i missed that this is what you had asked specifacally, or i would not have questioned you about the dump feature any futher, as you already had answered my question.
duh to me.

Yes Don, what Matt has said he wqas told about 5c and dish refusing to go beyond the spec, leads me to believe they just used the 5c dump spec in total; and puts that issue to rest in my mind. I agree it is a non factor.

The crashing you meantion does trouble me tho, but am confident that won't be a long term problem.

i am not surprised that the dvhs machines and 921 lose communication with each other, my 1394 devices do this every once in awhile , some more , some less... and not just 169time products.
i have the same mits 169time problem you have Don; sometimes it is ten minutes or ten days till the dvhs is forgotten. so at this point i wish they would just activate the 1394 ports with support for jvc dvhs..
post #40 of 1126
"The crashing you meantion does trouble me tho, but am confident that won't be a long term problem."

Considering that both Macs and PC's still crash after 20 years, I'd think your statement is quite optimistic. IMO, as these receivers become more computer like in design, so will the inherrent natural troubles we have. Who knows, when they start integrating the internet... and how viruses begin to be designed to kill DBS DVR's The future is going to be quite interesting!
post #41 of 1126
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis
FrankS-

As you are an installer- how do you respond to installs where the cable runs are extremely difficult. In my case I have run my 4 cables through a very tight crawl space and since I know the path, I can run it myself in about 2 hours. The first time I did it the project took a half day. Would you recommend I run some cables myself for the Superdish, or let the installer suffer through it? The alternative I do not want is for an installer to come in and route the cables in the easiest path HE chooses that is unsightly. I have this image that the "proferssional installer" will do the minimum he has to just to get on to his next job.
Second- Are you being instructed to remove the old Dish 500 and use that mount? What about the 61.5 dish? I want to keep my 61.5 dish for some foreign programming options. How does that mesh with the superdish?
Unless you need your Superdish mounted in a different spot then where your Dish500 is there should be no reason to need to do any runs of cables since they are already done. All the installer will do is come and replace the dish and verify the signal is OK on your receiver.

Dish has given us absolutely no info as far as Superdish upgrades and the independant retailers don't even know if we are going to be allowed to do upgrades at all (like they did with the second dish install for those who has extra locals on the wing satellites). The one thing we were told is the Superdish will require a whole new 2" mount instead of the 1 5/8" used now due to the heavier dish, so you can expect the dish500 to be remove (mount and all) and the new mount instaled and aimed. I hope for the sake of the consumer that they let the independant dealers do upgrades because if only the DNSC (Dish's own install network) are allowed to do it there are going to be some disasters out there! Those who work for DNSC will do as you mentioned (the bare minimum) and their work can and usually is quite sloppy. Going with independant dealers you have someone who has THEIR reputation on the line and they will do a far better job then any DNSC installer will do.

As for the 61.5 addtion to a Superdish you will have to wait until sometime early next year when the 4x4 switches come out to do what you want. You won't be able to cascade a SW21 with the output of a Superdish like you can do currently.
post #42 of 1126
Quote:
Originally posted by nicktesla
Matt what exactly does this mean, that the 6000 cannot downconvert HD? What is the advantage of this? I thought about buying two 811's should I get one 6000 and one 811 for the reasons you mentioned? I do have a non-dvi hd projector, and a non-dvi hd tv in the other room.
Thanks
If (and that's a big if) content providers decide to add flags to downconvert analog outputs then all dish receivers, except 6000 will downconvert HD to 480i on their analog (component or RGB) HD outputs. (BTW, In the past, to see this in action, I added the flag to one of my streams and my JVC 30k downconverted the HD stream to 480i on all its outputs except firewire.)
post #43 of 1126
Would an installer balk at drilling into a concrete wall? That is how my mounts are. No way will they raise the mount 12" and just screw through the siding.

Give me the mount then go to lunch. Come back and I'll have it affixed to the house.
post #44 of 1126
Quote:
Originally posted by gpflepsen
Would an installer balk at drilling into a concrete wall? That is how my mounts are. No way will they raise the mount 12" and just screw through the siding.

Give me the mount then go to lunch. Come back and I'll have it affixed to the house.
The installer should be able to do a concrete install but he will NOT let you do the install becuase if it gets screwed up he gets charged back the amount of the dish and the install reinbursement!
post #45 of 1126
Thread Starter 
Frank, my current dishes are on my chimney via the chimney mounts with straps. Nothing has been drilled into the brick. Do you think they will be able to do the Superdish the same way? Or will they have to drill into the brick?

I cannot allow the dish to be installed onto the roof, since our roof will be removed the Summer after next for a new one.
Quote:
Don asked: Did you happen to ask about future hard drive additions?
No, I didn't even think of it. But I'll ask him next time we chat.
post #46 of 1126
Thanks for your answers, Frank. I recognize that they are from your perspective and not all installers in general. Basically, They tell me what I wanted to know.

Matt- When I saw the inside of the 921, the Eldon Tech explained exactly where the second hard drive rails will be mounted and it is configured so that a standard 5" drive size can fit such as the DVD-RW drives. It was hoped that this space would be adequate for future Blue Ray drives as well. Interesting but who knows if that will ever happen. Also, it was describbed by Eldon tech that the second Firewire could connect to a firewire hard drive for additional storage. The USB port was to allow printouts to a USB printer for making a hard copy of your drive inventory, schedules etc. These are just a few tidbits you might ask if still in the long range planning for the 921 growth. Much of this stuff was under development by special teams at Eldon and would come together as separate software modules included in periodic software updates.
post #47 of 1126
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
Frank, my current dishes are on my chimney via the chimney mounts with straps. Nothing has been drilled into the brick. Do you think they will be able to do the Superdish the same way? Or will they have to drill into the brick?

I cannot allow the dish to be installed onto the roof, since our roof will be removed the Summer after next for a new one.
At the very least they will need to mount into the mortar of your chimney but we haven't been informed by dish about the ability to do a chimney strap mount.
post #48 of 1126
I've seen the slick sheet for the DVR 921, it appears to have a removable rear access panel, potential upgrade ? Anyone know anything about this ?
post #49 of 1126
That access door is for future ugrades to the tuner hardware section. Nothing specific at this time. When I asked, I suggested a cable tuner and the rep just laughed. Maybe another OTA tuner but NEVER will Dish build a cable tuner!
post #50 of 1126
the 6000s off air mod. has cable capabilty. You have to set the cable type.
post #51 of 1126
The 6000 does SD, They wouldn't do a HD cable tuner add-on...
post #52 of 1126
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis
"The crashing you meantion does trouble me tho, but am confident that won't be a long term problem."

Considering that both Macs and PC's still crash after 20 years, I'd think your statement is quite optimistic. IMO, as these receivers become more computer like in design, so will the inherrent natural troubles we have. Who knows, when they start integrating the internet... and how viruses begin to be designed to kill DBS DVR's The future is going to be quite interesting!
Don,

I never thought of it this way, that is an interesting point. But i still am confident that it will get better..

As far as computers go, my imac crushed everyday with the first release but after it was out afew months they had worked that out so that it crushed about once amonth. and my pc doesn't crush even that much a few times years, i would be able to live with both those rates if i had to.

times will be interesting thoho
post #53 of 1126
This "professional install" stuff is downright communist. It reminds of of the old Ma-Bell operation where you couldn't even touch the wiring and phone sets in your home. At least Ma-Bell had exacting standards and bulletproof equipment (if not innovative).

Many of us have complex installations, tightly constrained, well though-out, and which involved serious thought and consideration of consequences. "Professional" installers aren't likely to go to this effort. I can't afford roof leaks two years after an "adequate" install job.

Unlike Ma-Bell, there is competition for HD delivery. Maybe I should look harder at digital cable.

Gerald C
post #54 of 1126
The last time I had a "professional" in to do an install it was my first DirecTV dish. When done, he tried to sell me some vacuum packed Omaha Neb. steaks, some Rolex knock-offs and a beeper from the trunk of his car. At least he mounted the dish where I wanted aftert I complained what a moronic install my neighbor got with his dish on a 5 ft. pole in the middle of his front yard and the RG6 stretched across to the house. After the guy left, my neighbor moved the dish to his rear roof.

I have a mess with 3 dishes and a roof VHF yagi but at least it is only visible from my roof and back yard. Can't see it from the street or front yard.

Professional install is not communist, BTW, HOA is communism, and that is by definition! A few of my friends get really pixxed when I refer to their location as a commune. :D
post #55 of 1126
FYI, I just got off the phone with a csr and he said they are selling the 6000u receiver for $149 which is $50 dollars cheaper than advertised on the charlie chat, But he said it does not include the 8vsb tuner card and he said that would be another $149 for the card which means I would have to spend $300 total. I believe I would be better off to wait for 811 to come out for just $100 more.........
post #56 of 1126
I was just informed by a csr that the 6000u receiver being offered with the 8vsb for $199 is a refurbished unit.
post #57 of 1126
So what do you think Dish is going to do with us 5000 users?
post #58 of 1126
Well, after calling three different times and getting three different answers, I ordered the 6000u with 8psk for $199. Had to commit to top 50 and HD package for 1year. I was assuming this was a new unit but I did not ask. I will be using a CRT projector to view HD content so I think the 6000 is a no brainer. I can always add a 921 later, if needed.
post #59 of 1126
Thread Starter 
No decision has been made about 5000 users, other than the Modulator will be useless at some point before next August, due to all HD content moving to 8PSK on 105.
post #60 of 1126
I think that the 5000 users are supposed to take advantage of the $199 offer and upgrade to the 6000. Without 8PSK, you are SOL.
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