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* Offical Velodyne Support Thread * - Page 299

post #8941 of 9547
Will do. Thanks, Rob.

RJ
post #8942 of 9547
I thought I would share a quick personal story about how my opinion about performance power cords and subwoofers.

As part of our partnership with AudioQuest, some of their folks came to the office to show us their wares. Like many in our building at Velodyne, I was already a believer in the benefit of quality shielded interconnect cables, but did not put much stock in to aftermarket power cords. So with some in the office claiming snake oil, and I being dubious myself, we chose to test our DD plus subwoofer with the only variable being a changing of power cord from the stock cord to the NRG-4 and back again.
There was a bit of nervousness on the part of AudioQuest, as they had never A/B tested just a power cable in the field before, and did not know what to expect. The results shocked us all.

The difference wasn't subtle at all, it was night and day different. The DD plus, already known for clarity and tight accurate bass, was dramatically improved by changing the power cord. In fact switching back to the standard cord after listening to the NRG-4 was even more telling as the DD plus became downright difficult to listen to after knowing what it was capable of. Additional tests were made with other variants of AudioQuest power cords and improvements in accuracy, clarity, tightness, transparency, and realism were present and noticeable to even the untrained ears in our office in all cases.

The moral of the story is that after this listening test my opinion about performance power cords was changed, I do believe they can make a significant difference in subwoofer performance. I since changed out the stock cords on my two DD plus subwoofers at home with the NRG-4 cords and even my wife notices the difference.

**Disclaimer: Rob is stepping outside his role as an employee of Velodyne to share a personal experience of non-scientific listening and observation. This story is not intended to be any more factual than any other individuals personal observations through subjective listening. My experiences are mine alone and may not be the same as yours.

Edited for clarity that this is a personal observation and not a scientific statement of fact
Edited by Rob Morse - 3/25/13 at 2:08pm
post #8943 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Morse View Post


The moral of the story is performance power cords do make a significant difference in subwoofer performance. I since changed out the stock cords on my two DD plus subwoofers at home with the NRG-4 cords and even my wife notices the difference.
Show us the measured response charts. With all due respect, your affiliation with AudioQuest makes any purely subjective claims not backed up by repeatable verifiable data highly suspect. I for one would never put my professional reputation or integrity on the line without said data in hand.
post #8944 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Show us the measured response charts. With all due respect, your affiliation with AudioQuest makes any purely subjective claims not backed up by repeatable verifiable data highly suspect. I for one would never put my professional reputation or integrity on the line without said data in hand.

I agree my subjective claims are just that. I should have added a disclaimer that this was a personal observation and not some official endorsement, I will go back and add a disclaimer.

There was not scientific measurements made that day, which many things can be measured and not experienced, just a system in a room with a bunch of human ears. This was more of a personal tale of amazement and a change of my audio opinion. I am apologize if this was not clear. It is my belief that similar results could be achieved with other brands of cables just as is the case with interconnects.
Edited by Rob Morse - 3/25/13 at 2:05pm
post #8945 of 9547
I also agree that decent power cords make a noticeable performance increase with powered subs.

I'm currently using a Ps Audio Ac-12 with my Velodyne DD-12(I used a Wireworld Electra 5.2 with a JL Audio f112 before too), and i also swapped out the 2 internal AC fuses for Hifi-Tuning Supreme3's. Swapping the fuses brings more of what the high quality power cord brings.

I would describe the effect on the sound from changing the power cord like the subs phase has been locked perfectly with the speakers, so the timing between the speakers and sub become perfect. If you then remove the power cord, its as if the phase setting has been adjusted slightly(the wrong way), and the timing between the speakers and sub is slightly off, and getting them to blend seamlessly is more difficult.

Cheers
Matt
post #8946 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Morse View Post

It is my belief that similar results could be achieved with other brands of cables just as is the case with interconnects.
And you're entitled to do so. Being a scientist and engineer I only believe that which is proven, and no power cable has ever been proven to do anything to improve the sound of the gear it supplies power to. There are some realms where faith and belief alone have to be sufficient. Unlike politics and religion, audio is not one of those realms. If it can't be measured, it can't be heard.
post #8947 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Morse View Post

You may absolutely use the SMS-1 with the Optimum subwoofer, as it will work with any subwoofer. My recommendation would be to place the subwoofer, and run its auto eq. Then leave the subwoofer on preset 3 which is the neutral position. Now you connect the SMS-1 inline with your processor and the subwoofer and utilize the parametric EQ in the SMS-1. Leave the SMS-1 volume at 14 and make any subwoofer volume adjustments at the subwoofer.

Hi Rob

Just came across your post; as the Optimum is similar to the SPLs I was curious about your reasoning about doing the subs self EQ first.
I’ve been living happily with my SPL1500R/ SMS-1 combo for a few years now seamlessly supplementing the base on my Dynaudio Special 25s but assumed that the sub, if it has it’s own EQ should be reset to default (no EQ) and #3 for the Optimum and SPL-Rs, therefore no contour settings.
Reason being that without a visual reference for the settings, the subs auto-EQ may in fact be boosting some frequencies higher than recommended especially near the crossover frequencies depending on the phase adjustments and if still problematic boosted further with the SMS-1.
As it is now even at high volume levels in my small listening room (10’ x 15’x 10) the SPL1500R never draws attention to itself, just clean solid base even with base heavy music or sound tracks.

I’ll leave things as they are, but interested all the same.

Thanks

Robert
Edited by rob80b - 3/27/13 at 10:32am
post #8948 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

And you're entitled to do so. Being a scientist and engineer I only believe that which is proven, and no power cable has ever been proven to do anything to improve the sound of the gear it supplies power to. There are some realms where faith and belief alone have to be sufficient. Unlike politics and religion, audio is not one of those realms. If it can't be measured, it can't be heard.

It should be stated, and I think as a scientist / engineer you will agree, that changing cables or power cords will never improve the original sound. The original signal is colored, distorted, and interfered with along the way, at best a cable can only reduce this effect.
post #8949 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Hi Rob

Just came across your post; as the Optimum is similar to the SPLs I was curious about your reasoning about doing the subs self EQ first.
I’ve been living happily with my SPL1500R/ SMS-1 combo for a few years now seamlessly supplementing the base on my Dynaudio Special 25s but assumed that the sub, if it has it’s own EQ should be reset to default (no EQ) and #3 for the Optimum and SPL-Rs, therefore no contour settings.
Reason being that without a visual reference for the settings, the subs auto-EQ may in fact be boosting some frequencies higher than recommended especially near the crossover frequencies depending on the phase adjustments and if still problematic boosted further with the SMS-1.
As it is now even at high volume levels in my small listening room (10’ x 15’x 10) the SPL1500R never draws attention to itself, just clean solid base even with base heavy music or sound tracks.

I’ll leave things as they are, but interested all the same.

Thanks

Robert

The theory is that by running the auto-eq on the subwoofer first, it will make the first pass at smoothing out peaks in the frequency response. Then by following up with the SMS-1 you can fine tune the rest. You could choose to not run the auto-eq at all on the subwoofer and use just the SMS-1 for equalization, and that is perfectly fine too.
post #8950 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Morse View Post

The theory is that by running the auto-eq on the subwoofer first, it will make the first pass at smoothing out peaks in the frequency response. Then by following up with the SMS-1 you can fine tune the rest. You could choose to not run the auto-eq at all on the subwoofer and use just the SMS-1 for equalization, and that is perfectly fine too.

Thanks Rob.

Ideally I'd like to bypass the 1500R's EQ/Volume all together and just use the SMS-1, but then I guess that's why there is a DD plus!

Robert
post #8951 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Thanks Rob.

Ideally I'd like to bypass the 1500R's EQ/Volume all together and just use the SMS-1, but then I guess that's why there is a DD plus!

Robert
If using the subwoofer remote you press 1-2-3-4-4-3-2-1 you will restore the subwoofer to the defaults and remove any equalization that has been previously set.
post #8952 of 9547
Hi Rob: I'm using a pair of Optimum 12's which use a two conductor power cord. Is the AudioQuest NRG-4 available in that configuration or will the NRG-4 work on the Optimum?
post #8953 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphillips View Post

Hi Rob: I'm using a pair of Optimum 12's which use a two conductor power cord. Is the AudioQuest NRG-4 available in that configuration or will the NRG-4 work on the Optimum?
The power cords are 3 conductor, but they are backwards compatible with the two conductor optimum and DD product, the ground is just not connected.
post #8954 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Morse View Post

It should be stated, and I think as a scientist / engineer you will agree, that changing cables or power cords will never improve the original sound. The original signal is colored, distorted, and interfered with along the way, at best a cable can only reduce this effect.
At best a cable can pass the signal without altering it. The ability for an interconnect to do so is not related to the cable's price. The best possible result can be achieved spending no more than a dollar a foot.
At best a power cable will pass the AC without restricting current flow. Here also the best possible result can be achieved spending no more than a dollar a foot.
Scientists/engineers are aware of these facts. The average consumer is not a scientist or engineer. IMO those who are aware that cables cannot do what their makers claim that they can do have a moral responsibility to point that out to those who don't have a scientific or engineering background.
post #8955 of 9547
Rob, I wanted to pass along my public thanks to Jeff Davis, Velodyne Product support Specialist, for his expert and prompt reply to my email on my gurgling DD15 (post #8940 above). Like your fine products, you provide exemplary service.

RJ
post #8956 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoThere View Post

Rob, I wanted to pass along my public thanks to Jeff Davis, Velodyne Product support Specialist, for his expert and prompt reply to my email on my gurgling DD15 (post #8940 above). Like your fine products, you provide exemplary service.

RJ

Thank you for passing along your experience. We are very happy to have Jeff on our team.
post #8957 of 9547
Hi guys,

Glad I found the thread.

I don't seem to be able to make a title on this thread. So…

I just picked up a Velodyne DPS-12 which when I plugged in, just sat there and buzzed a bit.

I've taken the screws off the back plate, but it seems to be either glued or I must take the small screws out. (I haven't thinking they're holding stuff to the plate.)

Can somebody provide me with some direction in opening this beast up?

Thanks,

SweetDoug
post #8958 of 9547
Well, I just found the search feature and did just that and found an answer.

I was just a little too timid, afraid I'd wreck something.

Backs off, (it's just really heavy to pry up. Use a Richard's paint scrapper, the one with the red end--It's a desert Island tool for me!) and I'm going to dive in!

SweetDoug



•∆•
V-V
post #8959 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetDoug View Post

Well, I just found the search feature and did just that and found an answer.

I was just a little too timid, afraid I'd wreck something.

Backs off, (it's just really heavy to pry up. Use a Richard's paint scrapper, the one with the red end--It's a desert Island tool for me!) and I'm going to dive in!

SweetDoug



•∆•
V-V

If you need additional assistance feel free to contact Velodyne at service@velodyne.com
post #8960 of 9547
Hi, Rob:

As noted in my post 8940 above, I'll be taking the amp from one of my DD15s to the Temple of Velo for service. Can you offer me any tips or instructions for removing the amp from the sub, such as for removing connectors or separating the back plate from the sub cabinet?


Thanks,

RJ
post #8961 of 9547
When the velodyne service department provides you with a return authorization, they should provide you with instructions for the removal of the panel, but if not here you go:
To separate the electronics pack:
1. Remove the 10-12 screws that surround the perimeter of the metal plate on the back of your subwoofer (where all of the controls and connections are).
2. Once these screws are removed you should be able to pull the panel away from the cabinet (it may stick a bit but there is no adhesive)
3. Locate the 5-6 sets (depends on model) of wire bundles that prevent you from removing the panel completely. Unplug the connections at the board so all the wires stay with the cabinet. All of the connections are molex type or spade type connectors that will unplug. There is no soldering or wire cutting involved.
post #8962 of 9547
Thanks very much, Rob. Excellent instructions.

RJ
post #8963 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoThere View Post

Thanks very much, Rob. Excellent instructions.

RJ
NP, you may want to take a picture or label the connections. When your amplifier is returned their should be a wiring diagram as well to aid in re-connection.
post #8964 of 9547
Good advice, Rob. Will do.

RJ
post #8965 of 9547
I currently have two SC-600 IF/IC bass reflex subs in my home cinema and powered by the SC-1250. I see there is a new model that replaces it which has a sealed enclose design SC-IF/IC, if I was to replace mine with the new design would the overall sound improve? I see they say enclosed cabinets create less boom, could this be why Velodyne have changed their design on this model?

Discontinued Model SC-600 IF/IC
http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/subcontractor-series/sc-600-if-ic-in-floor-or-ceiling.html

New model SC IF/IC
http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/subcontractor-series/sc-if-ic-in-floor-or-ceiling-subwoofer.html
post #8966 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I currently have two SC-600 IF/IC bass reflex subs in my home cinema and powered by the SC-1250. I see there is a new model that replaces it which has a sealed enclose design SC-IF/IC, if I was to replace mine with the new design would the overall sound improve? I see they say enclosed cabinets create less boom, could this be why Velodyne have changed their design on this model?

Discontinued Model SC-600 IF/IC
http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/subcontractor-series/sc-600-if-ic-in-floor-or-ceiling.html

New model SC IF/IC
http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/subcontractor-series/sc-if-ic-in-floor-or-ceiling-subwoofer.html

The SC600 IF/IC was never designed to work with the SC-1250 amplifier, it should be used with the SC-600 or SC602 amplifier only. The SC-600 series utilizes a 4 ohm driver where as the SC-1250 amplifier is designed to mate with the 8 ohm drivers from the original SC series. The enclosed SC-IF/IC or as it is now called the SC-IF was designed to mate with the SC-1250 amplifier. The SC-IF is not new, it is actually being discontinued so if you can get them at a good price, I would pick them up. There is an improvement in driver performance, plus the added benefit of reducing the risk of damaging your amplifier with the wrong speaker load.
post #8967 of 9547
Rob, I followed your instructions, and the amp came out of my DD15 quickly and easily. I also took photos, as you recommended.

I drove down to Morgan Hill to drop off the amp and had the pleasure of meeting Jeff Davis. What an engaging and interesting gentleman, clearly a chappie with a passion for audio. It was a delight to chat for a few minutes, and it was great to connect with the expert with whom I had been communicating via Velodyne's support email system. Clearly, Jeff is an excellent member of the Velodyne team and a genuine asset to the audio community.

Thanks for your advice, and many thanks to Jeff.

Cheerio,

RJ
post #8968 of 9547
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoThere View Post

Rob, I followed your instructions, and the amp came out of my DD15 quickly and easily. I also took photos, as you recommended.

I drove down to Morgan Hill to drop off the amp and had the pleasure of meeting Jeff Davis. What an engaging and interesting gentleman, clearly a chappie with a passion for audio. It was a delight to chat for a few minutes, and it was great to connect with the expert with whom I had been communicating via Velodyne's support email system. Clearly, Jeff is an excellent member of the Velodyne team and a genuine asset to the audio community.

Thanks for your advice, and many thanks to Jeff.

Cheerio,

RJ

Thank you for your feedback, I agree, Jeff is a valuable member of our support team with a great passion for music and performance.
post #8969 of 9547
I can't believe this, Rob:

I dropped off my DD15 amp at Velodyne on Wednesday. On Friday, I received a phone call letting me know that it was ready and would be shipped back to me. Not only had your staff diagnosed and repaired the problem, they upgraded the amp to the latest technology.

That is amazing customer service, fully commensurate with Velo's passion for quality sound.

Please express my deep appreciation to all involved.

RJ
post #8970 of 9547
It always shocks me how many people have issues with their subs. Sometimes I read thru this Velodyne thread and wonder why so many of these subs go bad. Was I just lucky or am I just not pushing my sub hard enough. I have owned a Velodyne DPS 12 for about 9 or 10 yrs and have had ZERO issues with it. Even though I don't use it in my theater anymore, I do use it in my music set up and it sounds fantastic.
SAM_0219.JPG 1237k .JPG file
SAM_0220.JPG 1101k .JPG file
I have said it before but I think it is worth saying again... I have other subs that I use but this is the best sounding sub I had in my theater. The only reason I did not buy two or three more is because they were discontinued and I could not find any used ones at the time. I would have loved to have four of these in my theater room.
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