SVS B4 Subwoofer Product Review!!! - Page 2  

Titan A.E. really is a nutty DVD for bass - it's the one i use to demonstrate my own B4+.

SVS has some waterfall plots of scenes from the movie on their website:

Ice Field
Ship engine roar (Chapter 10 - 0:36:44)

you can see the whole list of samples here

that titan A.E. stuff is going strong at 10hz....no wonder the concrete floor of my condo is shaking when i'm listening to it at reference levels...

makes me want another B4+. or two.

Well guys...believe it or not.....I finally took the plunge. First of all, I want to thank you all for all the opinions and advise. You've all been great. I've been an audiophile for a little more than 25 years now......and It's always a true labor of love in coming to a decision point about buying equipment. After reading everyones opinion and doing a significant amount of tossing and turning at night, and at times, actually questioning my own sanity, I decided to let the ole freak flag fly once again. It's been at half mast long enough......the flag, that is. And if it turns out to be overkill....then, as Yul Brenner says in The Ten Commandments, "so, let it be written....so, let it be done". I'm an overkill kinda guy anyway.

What is it that Marcus Arelius says in Gladiator? "What we do in life echoes through eternity"?.....well, in approximately 10 days, what I just ordered will probably do a little more than echo through my neighborhood 'cause I just ordered 2 B4s!!!!!:D
Javry

Bass addicts unite!!1 Congrats!! You are as wacked out as the rest of us bass-o-philes!!!

Jav, you are rockin dude...If I truely needed another, I would be all over it! Your room is pretty good size...mine is 4500CF or there abouts..it puts on a show upstairs at small levels....:) I'm on a carpeted concrete floor remember, and things 20' above seem to move aimlessly as if they are ready to ...oh ****..fall:) as with any sub, finding its perfect spot will only help...post some pics, and keep me posted! 3C

I think I'm still a part of this...my room is a bit smaller, so hearing, plaster, and wall mounted items can still be damaged right?:) My neighbor once said, I hear you have a pretty good sound system...I said yeah, its ok...jumping to conclusions I continued, if its too loud, then please get a hold of me before calling the cops...she said, oh no...I'll be over with a case of beer!! I knew she rocked...since then, the neighborhood group (a small union of 10 houses all together)) have drank beer a few more times than we should have:)

Javry: "If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing." :D You are now my hero.

So on that note... Would a guy on a bit more of a budget be better off getting TWO B2, or 1 B4?

stu, I'm assuming your speaking of the PB2 from SVS vs 1 B4+?
1.) you need room....with 2 PB2's you'll need major room.
2.) they are black..if that matters
3.) They do offer a nice amp with them...so that will cut down on that portion of the added cost comparing it to the B4+
4.) I wish I could be more accurate, but I believe anything 25 hz and above, they are close....anything below, and the B4+ pulls away...so that deep stuff is best played using a B4+....ask Tom V to make sure that's right...but I believe its close. The B4+ has a great look to it..well made, and will take up less room on your ht floor. Tough call, but if it were me, I'd go B4+, and you could easily grab something other than a K1 to run it...qsc makes some cheaper amps....noise bothers some...so check into it. If anything else comes up, hollar.

Thanks for the comments guys. You can bet, the www will get upgraded as soon as I get those homies in the system.

Hey Stu, I think it's going to depend on whether you have an outboard amp to work with. If you do, then I would do the B4 just because of the finish that would come with it. If you don't have an extra outboard, then I wouldn't hesitate at all going with a couple of PB2s.
Javry

Jav...remember, he needs room too:) O just emailed tom v...I told him someday I'll have duals*I'm jealous now:)*...just bought a FP...man, I could have had some serious bass instead *smiles*...there would be a new "king of bass" here *looks at thebland smiling* lol....

thanks 3. I just got an email from TV. Looks like they'll be here in about a week. Guess I better get busy arranging things. Gonna be a hot time in the ole neighborhood then. Ain't life grand:p
Javry

I've got room... approx 1800 sq ft room w/ 9 ft ceilings is where the party's gonna be @ Stu's... I don;t have any extra outboard amps, so score one for the dual PB2's (my bad on the model number, I remembered the # designation, and assumed the letters were hte same) But to know that someone out there has 2 B4's... :D The little green monster is saying "Me too!", except I blew my one-upsmanship bankroll on "Frankenmotor" for my WCC. I gotta say that sounds like it's gonna be one HELL of a setup. Might want to put a rider on your homeowner's policy for foundation cracks. :D

Wow, 2 B4+'s--that's awesome! My (one) B4+ in Mercury Red arrived last weekend just in time for some Lion King action (5500 cu ft+ room). Here's what I've learned so far:

1. While the BaxSaver shipping does not provide for delivery on Saturdays, a call to Erik at SVS and a nominal charge will give you the opportunity to play over the weekend.

2. Bax Global carries cool stuff--I couldn't help noticing on the truck that delivered my sub that there were a bunch of boxes from Boeing with "V-22" stickers on it. Seeing as I don't have room for a tilt rotorcraft (and barely room for the B4+), I opted not to investigate further.

3. The sub arrives tightly strapped to a pallet with metal straps. Cutting the straps releases a lot of tension and the strap can fly around with substantial force and speed. Ever seen the opening of "Ghost Ship"?

4. Get ready for lots of layers of packaging--MDF, foam, brown paper, shrinkwrap, etc. Have a prybar and utility knife ready (that way you won't waste time trying to find them and delay the fun). I now have a lot of sympathy for the men in Victorian times...

5. Once you've got it opened, get down on your knees and thank Tom and Ron for adding that recessed pedestal thingie at the bottom to grab while lifting. But for that, you would be moving your HT into your garage (or wherever you broke the seal on the packaging).

6. Drink the beer after lifting, not before.

7. Familiarize yourself with the location of the binding posts (under the sub) *before* you put the sub in the corner.

8. Tie everything down in your HT room. Do not be afraid to use excessive amounts of Blu-Tack--it's cheaper than whatever you are trying to prevent from breaking.

9. If you're following the instructions in the B4+ manual (i.e., turning the amplifer gain all the way up), make sure that you remember to lower your pre-pro's sub level too. Alternatively, this is an excellent way to find out where you forgot to Blu-Tack.

10. Spend time admiring the effort that went into the finishing and the quality of the veneer. Give thanks for the rounded corners that allow you to drag the sub out of the corner to get to the binding posts.

11. Enjoy the last, best subwoofer you'll ever own.

One question for you B4+ owners, do you have any tuning plugs inserted? Do you have a subsonic filter?

One of my projects this weekend is to add some of those plastic discs to the bottom to assist in sliding the sub across carpet. I'll let you know how it goes...

Brian

WOW! I didn't peg this decision until first quarter '04. :)
How do you plan on driving these beasts? Need a K-2 to play with??

Dave

i have 2 plugs in, for a 16hz tune. and my subsonic filter is set to about 10hz, i think...

i have yet to find the limits of the thing at that tuning frequency. i'm pretty sure it'd push my eyeballs through the back of my skull before it bottomed out, though.

John,
How big is the room that you've got the B4 in? I may try to add a couple plugs this weekend, but I didn't want to rob too much of its SPL output (of course I never listen at reference).

Brian

it's about 3900 cu ft, with large openings into two other areas of the house (dining room and hall/foyer).

well, since the compromise in SPL at higher frequencies will matter only as you approach that volume at those frequencies, and since i'm pretty sure the ceiling never drops below reference, i think you should be ok with a plug or two in there.

i just can't live without the really, really deep stuff, you know? so it's worth the rather slight sacrifice in SPL at higher frequencies to get flat, reference response down past 16hz...

Interesting. I've got one plug in there already to simulate the response of my former 20-39 PC+'s, but I will have to give two plugs a try. I have already noticed a deeper response due to the lack of subsonic filter (the PC+ rolls off pretty quick after 20hz). One to-do this weekend is some frequency response graphs to set up for a BFD tweaking session--maybe I will run three baselines (no plugs, one plug and two plugs).

if you actually do that, i'd be very interested to see your results.

i noticed a huge difference between the 25hz and 16hz tune - the bass was way more full, you know? i could never go back now.

Dave,
I'm going to stick with the Krell amps for now.....that is until you go on vacation again. May need some help unpacking some crates about this time next week though. I'll be givin you a buzz.....ole buddy.

now Vetinari, thats' the best advise I've gotten so far period.......you can bet I'll remember it.

Hey Stu, My guess is the PB2 would work great in your setup. You could always buy 2 more later and double stack them if the spirit moves you to do so.

Hey 3, I have a sneakin feelin that you're going to do something really crazy in the very near future:rolleyes:


TheBland, thanks for the advise on the BDEAP. I'll keep the info close at hand for sometime down the road.

I'm still surprised we haven't heard from Gordon. I figured this would give him ample reason to double up in his double stacked setup. Oh Gordon....where art thou?

Javry

Okay Guys,
I gotta start getting things ready. In the meantime, I'd like to start putting together a list of DVDs and CDs to start out with. So far, here's my list. Feel free to list any test CDs or DVDs also.

DVDs
1. With out a doubt, the first is Solar Max; you guys have gotta get this
one
2. The ring drop in LOTR
3. Coming Home in Apollo 13
4. Fight Scene in the Matrix
5. U-571; both torpedo scenes
6. Titan A&E.....way to go Thebland
7. Opening scene to AOTC
8. Nuclear exposion scene in Sum of All Fears
9. Last Scene [Dragon Drop] in Reign of Fire
10. Fast and Furious II

CDs
1. Last Movement in Saint Saens Symphony No. 3 [Telarc 80274]
2. Pictures at an Exhibition; Jean Guillou; [Dorian 90017]
3. Sountrack to Glory; 1st track;
4. Pomp and Pipes; 2nd track; Allelujah Laudamus De; Fredrick Fennel
[Reference Recordings; RR58CD]
5. Kiss My Axe; Al Dimeola 2nd cut; The Embrace

I think I have an early recording of Jurassic Lunch. Is the DTS version worth going after?

gimme me more guys....more...more ...more.....I'll start putting a list together and will follow up with a review of each.
Javry

[quote]Originally posted by javry
[b]Dave,
I'm going to stick with the Krell amps for now.....that is until you go on vacation again. May need some help unpacking some crates about this time next week though. I'll be givin you a buzz.....ole buddy.

You know where to find me. Don't expect that I'm willing to get them set-up and then not turn them on for a week or so. ;) I can always bring my K-2 with me but you'll have to fight to keep me away from the volume control. LOL

Dave

Hey Brian,
Please do let me know how this goes. A red subwoofer huh?
Javry

[quote]Originally posted by DaveN
[b] yeah....you and that darned volume control. U da monsta!!! Just don't forget the beer. Don't bring the K-2 though....cause if you do, I'll probably want one.... :(
Javry

I personally like the heli scene in the matrix when the choper hits the building.

daredevil organ smashing...movie sux though:)
pearl harbor fight scenes
I still like the THX intro with the world blowing to ****..always cool:)

TV-

Did anyone ever figure out what was up with the frequency response curve which is posted? The maximum output numbers cited are also more in line with a 90-92dB/1W/1m sensitivity. Were you able to duplicate these measurements? I am somewhat curious if there were any proximity issues in measuring at 1m off the side.

>>>TV-

Did anyone ever figure out what was up with the frequency response curve which is posted?<<<


To be honest, I didn't know I was supposed to be trying to figure anything out...it is all somewhat straight forward if anyone has followed John Johnson's reviews since he started the new measuring style?

The way John Johnson measures the FR isn't going to show what the real world FR of the unit will be...he tells everyone as much in his past reviews. He even describes how a HGS18 measured about the same as the 25-31PCi in his method of FR checking...which just happened to show the 25-31PCi down about 15dBs (iirc) at 20hz. Try comparing that to more traditional HGS18 FR measurements already documented?

Here is his text on the matter... (taken from the 25-31PCi review he published...which was the first using all his new measurement methods).

"""The frequency response shows a smooth roll-off from the peak at 75 Hz. Remember, this is a very conservative measurement (quasi-anechoic). The actual in-room response is always much better. Even my reference Velodyne 18" servo-feedback subs have a roll-off similar to this. What I look for is smoothness in the parabolic curve, and no bumps or dips. But, the really important thing is how much distortion the subwoofer produces, and the 25-31 has less distortion than some subs costing several times its price. Frankly, it is almost beyond belief what this thing does for $549."""

The B4+ had about the same FR curve as the 25-31PCi did, which also had about the same as the 18" servo from Velodyne(see above text). Coincidentally, the only other subwoofer he measured in this manner...the SPL800 from velodyne also had an FR fairly close to the others....just rolled off even a little more by 20hz. (understandable).

If you reference the Ultra review, it was also down 12-13dBs /20hz in his MLS way of FR checking, but the same unit was relatively flat to below 20hz when measured the traditional way in his listening room (without any eqing). Which obviously shows the MLS method is not meant to offer an accurate reflection of the real world FR charecteristics of the subwoofer being measured. (which he also explains a bit in the above text).


>>The maximum output numbers cited are also more in line with a 90-92dB/1W/1m sensitivity<<

It depends on how you are calculating sens. I guess? He was measuring low to mid 120s outside...which he explained would translate to well over 130dBs in the typical listening room.

That works out to >100dB/1w/1m for me...and that assumes absolutely no thermal compression with 1.5 kilowatts poured into the subwoofer...we both know that isn't going to happen. Even assuming just 1-2dBs of compression taking place...we are right at 101-103dBs sens. Which is very close to what I predicted a while back iirc.

With just about every on line customer review of the B4+ including measured bass peaks of 125dBs or more on the RS meter...I think that is a good indication the the B4+ would be hitting well over 130dBs if they had more accurate mics...probably more like 135dBs(at the listening positions!) according to your past text on the RS meter (showing 10dB short once it got >115dBs...which I do agree with in many instances). That would imply what...sens. around 106 or so?


I wish he would have done more testing on it, but his methods and my methods are so different, no one should expect our data to absolutely parallel anyway. Different PCs, different mics, different measuring distances, different input signals(for FR for example) and probably a lot of different setting in the Soundtechnology software itself.

Tom V.
SVS

Man you aren't kidding. I just watched it for the first time. I don't have a B4+ but it sure as hell gave my 25-31+ a workout.

I can't believe that no-one has mentioned MR(Reloaded) as a bass test disc.Staggering amounts of low bass.

Regards

well...I didn't mention it only because I don't have it yet. Also, I haven't seen it yet. I've been waiting for it to come out on DVD but didn't want to see it until I got the new subs into the system. On your recommendation though, It's now on the list.
Thanks
Javry

I have YET to hit max on my B4+...I've hit uncorrected 120+ with 3-4 db hot at 75 calibration on my Lex, I am endangering myself structurally going too much beyond that...I know damn well it'll do more...amp wasn't even soft clipping (seating about 10 feet now)...one day I'm gonna let it rip..if I break something, I'll send the bill to ya Vod...:) tom...This isn't a boomy, ****** bass..its a damn tight bass...spl's are good, but only when everything sounds great...so spl shootouts can get pretty ugly, and distorted.