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post #31 of 2840
I have the 60" GWIII with the buzzing problem too... If you watch the back of the TV you will see light coming from inside the unit when it buzzes... there is a little white translucent capacitor looking thing in there that glows bright white when it buzzes... I don't know what the heck it does that for... I have seen people talk about degaussing... whatever that is... I know next to nothing about the guts in these things, but I am getting pretty frustrated with this thing not turning on.
post #32 of 2840
A buzzer here too, I think it will be a wonderful day when someone is finally able to definitively answer the buzz question, I hope we're not looking at a mass recall, because other than the buzz my set is 100% perfect....
post #33 of 2840
Let's try to rule out what's happening:
1. There is no degaussing in a RP LCD TV
2. Can you better describe the "little white translucent capacitor looking thing"?

My XBR is to be delivered Wednesday, so I can't do a look-see. I wonder if there is ANY high voltage in a RPLCD? First blind guess would be some limiting device in a 110V fan circuit??? Or an inductive kick-start circuit for the bulb, depending on what type of bulb it is. Xenon-arc bulbs often require such. That could tie in with the bulb re-seating quick fix ...
post #34 of 2840
Here is what a "Sony Expert" says the buzz is all about:

Quote:
The lamp driver circuit generates a high voltage to "arc" the lamp. When the unit is turned on from a cold start there is a "spark gap" device on the board to absorb the initial high voltage. That is the buzzing sound you hear. This is normal and is one of the methods used to determine whether the lamp or the lamp driver is defective when there is no picture.
I would quit worrying unless you have a problem with the lamp lighting off.
post #35 of 2840
OK... here's what it looks like... it is cylindrical in shape, approximately 1/4" in diameter and 1/4" in length. It is mounted vertically on the board that it is on, and has a wire coming out of each end that is soldered onto the board. It is white in color, with blue markings, and it glows a wonderful brilliant bluish-white color when it buzzes. And it buzzes all too often. It's not the buzzing that bothers me though... it's the fact that the only time I hear the buzzing is when the thing refuses to turn on. I am calling sony... see if I get the same story as you umr. I'll keep you posted.
post #36 of 2840
Quote:
Originally posted by Duaner
OK... here's what it looks like... it is cylindrical in shape, approximately 1/4" in diameter and 1/4" in length. It is mounted vertically on the board that it is on, and has a wire coming out of each end that is soldered onto the board. It is white in color, with blue markings, and it glows a wonderful brilliant bluish-white color when it buzzes.
Hi guys, looks like I get to help out a little on this problem with my first post :D

First a little background, back in my younger and wilder days I worked in the Motion Picture industry for slave wages but outrageous cool factor. I dealt with MP lighting all day long and know this technology intimately albeit on a much larger scale, up to 18kw back in the day. Imagine the PJ you could fire with that lamp.

When I first started seeing these threads about the "buzz" in these new sets I instantly thought of a spark gap. After doing a little research at Philips web site and confirming that the lamp used in these sets is in fact an arc lamp I can explain what you are hearing and maybe even shed some light on why it is happening.

According to Philips the lamp used in these sets is a 100w UHP mercury halide lamp. These lamps are basically an arc welder inside a glass bubble filled with gasses that produce a specific color temperature when a specific amount of current is passed through the lamp turning the gas into plasma. Maintaining the the arc through the plasma once the lamp is lit is easy, making the first spark jump accross the 1mm gap in these lamps is hard, it takes a 20kV (that's 20,000 volts folks) spark to jump the gap in a cold lamp. It also takes a fair amount of current to make the leap and start a path that can easily be maintained by the operating current. The easiest way to make sure you have enough voltage and current built up before you try and fire the lamp itself is to include and air gap in the high voltage line.

The cylinder described above is an air gap. It forces the 20kV firing circuit to have enough juice to jump that air gap before it tries to ignite the lamp, without this air gap the lamp would be immensely harder to fire when it's cold and impossible when it's hot. There are current sensing circuits in the ballast that fires and powers the lamp that cuts off the 20kV ignition pulse when it senses the steady current of a lit lamp. On a cold start you might not even hear the ignition pulse because it should be very short, it is much easier to start a cold lamp than a hot one. Short run times and hot restrikes are the absolute worst things you can do to an arc lamp. They both cause the lamp to become cloudy and shorten the lamp life.

There is a decent link to a care and feeing guide for your lamps if you Google care and feeding of arc lamps. I can't post a link yet otherwise I would. Although this refrences mercury lamps used in microscopy it is the same technology and probably very similar to the lamp used in these sets.


The relevant bits from the care and feeding guide:
In order for these arc lamps to function optimally, they need to be used properly. The following points should be observed for their use:


When an arc lamp is brand new and first fired up, it should be left on for two hours, whether observing specimens or not. This is to allow the arc to establish arcing points on the electrodes to which the arc will always go and keep the arc stable when the lamp is fired in the future.

The lamp should always be cold when it is turned on. Never turn an arc lamp when it is warm. This causes clouding of the glass in the bulb and both considerably shortens the life of the burner and decreases the burner's brightness. When the glass is clouded, the burner will heat up more and the lamp is more likely to explode.

Once a lamp is turned on, it should be left on for a minimum of twenty minutes (thirty is preferable). This allows it to warm up properly and will help prevent premature wearing out (clouding) of the burner.

Other than firing the burner when warm, turning the lamp on and off repeatedly (many warm-ups and cool-downs) is probably the worst contributor to shortening the life of burner.

With all of that said, how do we fix this problem? That depends. Since the lamp and its ignitor come in a package from Philips we shouldn't have to worry about design mismatches. There is a slim possibility that Philips has a design flaw in their ignitor circuit, So we are left with a loose lamp housing as reported by some already, fast cycle times or low input voltage that are causing this problem. Even if it is just a loose lamp housing the lamp will already have sustained some damage and you can't fix that entirely once the problem has occured although you can take some steps to minimize the issue and maybe correct some of the damage.

Possible low voltage problem:

Someone in another thread I think removed their set from the power strip that had all 12 outlets filled and plugged it straight into the wall and it fixed the problem. To me that means there was a voltage drop while powering on all of the components in his AV setup which lowered the strike voltage for the lamp. Solution, turn on the TV first and let the lamp get going before starting to power up everything else or move the set to its own power source.

Fast cycle times or short run times.

The only way you can try and correct for this is to leave the set running for extended periods of time to try and recondition the lamp envelope and the electrodes. I have had some success with this before on lamps that had been mistreated but you can never get it back to the same conditoon it would have been in had it not experienced the problem in the first place.

HTH
post #37 of 2840
Quote:
Originally posted by umr
Here is what a "Sony Expert" says the buzz is all about:
Howdy! :D
post #38 of 2840
I don't think I have a low voltage problem... I purchased a Monster Power home theater strip with voltage indicator lights... never seem to have a problem with low voltage. I am sure that I have turned the tv on and off before letting it get to max temp and before letting it cool all the way down... but there is not anything in the manual that says I should have to do that anyways. Not saying that what you say is not true, I am sure it is, but Sony should have thought about that if it was going to be an issue.
Still not sure what's going to happen with the tv... Circuit City might just replace it. I really don't want to purchase another lamp for 250 bucks just to see if that's what the problem is. hey... thanks alot irgaac... at least now once this thing is fixed I'll know how to better take care of it. :-)
post #39 of 2840
Why didn't the GWII have the buzzing problem? Isn't it the same type of lamp LCD circuitry? Don't understand .....
post #40 of 2840
Quote:
Originally posted by Duaner
I don't think I have a low voltage problem... I purchased a Monster Power home theater strip with voltage indicator lights... never seem to have a problem with low voltage. I am sure that I have turned the tv on and off before letting it get to max temp and before letting it cool all the way down... but there is not anything in the manual that says I should have to do that anyways. Not saying that what you say is not true, I am sure it is, but Sony should have thought about that if it was going to be an issue.
Still not sure what's going to happen with the tv... Circuit City might just replace it. I really don't want to purchase another lamp for 250 bucks just to see if that's what the problem is. hey... thanks alot irgaac... at least now once this thing is fixed I'll know how to better take care of it. :-)
When I mentioned a low voltage problem I was talking about a transient voltage drop, like when your A/C kicks on and the lights dim for a sec. If your situation is anything like mine, when it comes time to fire up the TV you hit the power button for the set, the preamp, tuner, amp etc within a few seconds of each other. This can cause a voltage drop that could interfere with the lamp striking quickly. The longer it takes to light the more wear and tear on the electrodes happens.

One reason I can think of why they don't mention proper care and feeding of the lamp in the manual is the lamp is the only consumable part in the system, they make money off selling replacements :)

If anyone gets a lamp replacement done on one of these sets I would love to see pics of the 2 lamps, it would help immensely in diagnosing this type of problem. If the lamps both look fine then we are looking at a mechanical problem versus a usage problem.
post #41 of 2840
Finally looks like we are getting somewhere.
post #42 of 2840
irgaac,

excellent information you posted, thanks!
post #43 of 2840
I don't think transient voltage drop is an issue for me either... i pretty much just turn the tv on by itself most of the time. Interesting though what you said earlier about turning the tv on for an extended period of time and how that could somehow recondition the bulb... I have had the tv on for about 12 hours straight, and it might be a coincidence, but the stupid thing seems to have healed itself, as I fired it up twice after the long run time and it worked perfect both times.

I called Sony today, and the person I talked to had very little technical knowledge... they basically could read the manual like I can. They told me that I should get service. glad they could help.

I called Circuit City where I bought the thing, and the manager said he could swap it out with a new one for me in about a week. I feel guilty though for two reasons... 1) This will be the second busted tv they've replaced for me in less than a year. He probably thinks I hook these things up to 220 or something. and 2) If the heat up and cool down time of the bulbs in these tv sets is critical to how effecient they are at firing up, I feel like it's somehow my fault that it's messed up... especially if by running the tv for a long time span the problem has actually fixed itself.

I don't know if maybe I should cancel the new one or not. I have read other threads that talk about stuck pixels and misconvergence in these models that scare me... this one seems to be good with regard to those issues and I would hate to give it up if I thought the buzzing would never come back... (although the convergence is not perfect when using the thx optimizer or when viewing onscreen menu text, it's not really noticeable when watching tv or movies... but i suppose that's a whole other thread and not really relavent to this one)

It's a touchy situation... on the one hand, I don't want to be stinky and think I need a new tv every time something happens to mine, but on the other hand I did spend 4100 bucks for this tv with an extended service plan... I would think that would be enough money to buy a tv that will turn on when you press the button. Let me know what you guys think... thanks.
post #44 of 2840
Quote:
Originally posted by Duaner
I don't think transient voltage drop is an issue for me either... i pretty much just turn the tv on by itself most of the time. Interesting though what you said earlier about turning the tv on for an extended period of time and how that could somehow recondition the bulb... I have had the tv on for about 12 hours straight, and it might be a coincidence, but the stupid thing seems to have healed itself, as I fired it up twice after the long run time and it worked perfect both times.
There are several reasons why that would help if you have a touchy lamp. These lamps use mercury to help "color" the plasma stream to get 6500k color temp from the lamp. When the lamp comes fully up to temperature the mercury is vaporized in the plasma stream inside the lamp. This takes a while to happen. It also takes a while for the mercury to condense out of the plasma after the lamp is turned off. During this process it basically coats the inside of the lamp housing in a fine vapor of lovely electricity conducting mercury. When you try and hot start the lamp, unless the lamp has had a chance to cool down enough for the mercury to condense off the sides of the lamp envelope the spark just runs across the mercury instead of jumping through the gas and forming the plasma stream. Where the arc hits the mercury settled on the lamp housing it causes it to "stick" to the lamp envelope. You can reclaim some of the mercury and get it back into the plasma stream by allowing the convection currents inside the lamp envelope to scrub it off, allowing the lamp to remain at operating tremperature for a long time ensures that the lamp envelope is heated as much and as evenly as possible. It also gives the electrodes a nice constant wear pattern which will help during subsequent lamp strikes.
post #45 of 2840
To throw a bit more light on the lamp discussion ---
Via Google "UHP lamp':


What is the difference between a halogen and metal halide lamp?


Halogen bulbs last approximately 70 hours (per bulb). Metal halide lamps last approximately 1000 to 2000 hours.


Halogen lamps are less expensive ($75-$100) than metal halide lamps ($300-$400). The type of lamp your projector uses will be determined by the manufacturer.


Halogen lamps give off a yellowish image and metal halide lamps have a whiter image.


Halogen lamps burn at a steady rate and have a consistent brightness throughout lamp life. The brightness of metal halide lamps decreases during lamp life.


What about UHP?

UHP (Ultra High Performance) is a proprietary design of metal halide lamp manufactured by Philips that requires lower wattage for equivalent brightness. The benefits of this technology are a smaller and lighter projector, because the power supply is smaller and lighter; a cooler running, quieter, and less expensive-to-operate projector because of the lower wattage; and a longer lamp life, because the stresses on the lamp (wattage, temperature change) are reduced. UHP lamps last approximately 4000 hours whereas metal halide lamps last approximately 1000 to 2000 hours.
post #46 of 2840
I understand that when you turn the TV on, if the light flashes three times, it is a loose lamp cover. My question is "flashes which color?" When I turn on the TV, it flashes three times slowly green, and then turns on normally. I do not hear any buzzing. Is green flashing normal? The manual doesn't say.
Nick
post #47 of 2840
Quote:
if the light flashes three times, it is a loose lamp cover. My question is "flashes which color?"
It flashes red and your TV will not power up.
post #48 of 2840
My 60XBR950 arrived yesterday and I got it set up, all was well. Only 3 dead pixels, 2 green, one blue and they disappear at viewing distance, so I was happy. Stuck red pixels were my biggest concern going LCD.

At the end of the evening after the wife was asleep I was setting up my remote's Power On/Off Macro and having some issues with one of the devices, so I wound up powering on/off many times within a span of few minutes, which I now regret after reading this thread. Needless to say, on the final power up I got the buzz sound and flashing green light, but the TV did come on.

I went to bed at that point and hoped it was not going to persist as a problem. Of coursewhen I turned the set on this morning the same thing occurred. I have 30 days to decide to keep it since I purchased it from a local B&M, so I do have a safetly net of some sort. I will ride it out for a while and see how it goes, since I'd hate to trade it in and get one with stuck red pixels.

After reading this thread I just adjusted my Power On macro to power on all devices except the TV, pause 5 seconds, then turn on the TV. I'll see if that makes a difference with letting things settle down a bit on power up.

We have friends visiting today, so I'm afraid to turn off the TV and then have it not turn on later, how pathetic is that for a one day old TV? :( I will also open the lamp door later and reseat everything just in case, but I'm not too hopeful of that working.

Mike
post #49 of 2840
Is the buzzing problem occurring with the XBR GWIII as well as the WE610 or is it just with the standard unit?
post #50 of 2840
Quote:
Originally posted by Fangaar
My 60XBR950 arrived yesterday and I got it set up, all was well. Only 3 dead pixels, 2 green, one blue and they disappear at viewing distance, so I was happy. Stuck red pixels were my biggest concern going LCD.

At the end of the evening after the wide was asleep I was setting up my remote's Power On/Off Macro and having some issues with one of the devices, so I wound up powering on/off many times within a span of few minutes, which I now regret after reading this thread. Needless to say, on the final power up I got the buzz sound and flashing green light, but the TV did come on.

I went to bed at that point and hoped it was not going to persist as a problem. Of coursewhen I turned the set on this morning the same thing occurred. I have 30 days to decide to keep it since I purchased it from a local B&M, so I do have a safetly net of some sort. I will ride it out for a while and see how it goes, since I'd hate to trade it in and get one with stuck red pixels.

After reading this thread I just adjusted my Power On macro to power on all devices except the TV, pause 5 seconds, then turn on the TV. I'll see if that makes a difference with letting things settle down a bit on power up.

We have friends visiting today, so I'm afraid to turn off the TV and then have it not turn on later, how pathetic is that for a one day old TV? :( I will also open the lamp door later and reseat everything just in case, but I'm not too hopeful of that working.

Mike
I inadvertently hit the power button twice on my GWIII. This turned the set off and immediately back on. I got the green blinking lights for a good 30 seconds before the set came to life. I assumed that the set had an internal timer that kept the fan going to cool off the bulb for some amount of time before it would respond to any other commands.

After waiting, the green light stopped blinking and the set came on as normal. I don't make a habit of doing this, but the set had no ill effect. Most times the green light blinks for a few seconds then sound then the picture comes to life.

I don't think you have to be particularly careful with the set. It is designed to be used in a consumer environment, so it should work fine with normal treatment. Turning the darn thing on and off is usual treatment.
post #51 of 2840
I called Sony to deal with my "Buzz" and they dispatched a local tech to me who ordered a new lamp (a very knowledgeable guy) ... He explained to me that there were problems on the GWII like this and the source of the problem is always the lamp. He replaced my lamp with a new one (leaving me the older, faulty one as well, good for emergencies I suppose) and I have not had a problem since.

That information about the lamp driver is very intriguing from an engineering standpoint. Considering the indicator on the set was flashing "faulty lamp driver" (according to the SM) I couldn't find any information about how the set worked.

Food for thought,

Matt
post #52 of 2840
There was a batch of the 42" models that went out that seemed to have some sort of defect in them, where after a short period of use (couple weeks, sometimes less) they would no longer turn on and the lamp light would flash. I don't know if this is related to the buzzing sound. This problem was only with the 42" models as far as I know. My 50" sometimes makes that sound when I turn it on, but I've had it for 2 months and haven't a single problem with it. If you're concerned, I'd recommend heavy use in the first couple weeks. If it makes it past that period then you probably don't have one of the problem units. If you bought it at CC after October 12th then you have till January 31st to exchange or return it.
post #53 of 2840
My 50" GWIII Started Buzzing continuosly on startup about 2 weeks into its Life. After about 1 1/2 weeks the Unit failed to turn on regardless of the number of attemtpts. After it would not turn I opened the Lamp cover to check the bulb and found the bulb had disintegrated inside of it's housing.
This seems to me to be a defect in the lamps and not in the GWIII. The Buzzing is merely a byproduct of the Unit attempting to start the Bulb as well said in irgaac's Great post.

Also Welcome Back umr, Glad to see your back on.
post #54 of 2840
Well, as of today my TV buzzes every time I start it up, but it does still come on. Left it running for 12 hours yesterday but that did not help. I resetaed the lamp cover, no help.

I also turned it on when every other device was turned off and the voltage was showing 119.5 (about as good as it ever gets around here) and it still buzzed.

So at this point I expect it is the lamp itself. Sincd I have no dead red pixels, a lamp replacement sounds better than a full return for another one to me. I'll see if I can get that done and if it helps.

Mike
post #55 of 2840
Oooookay -

New 50" GWIII came in three weeks ago.

Fly size cluster of dead pixels just left of dead center had me exchanging the unit with a new one from Sears. New unit due Dec 2nd. Sears called yesterday and had to postpone delivery for one week to the 9th.

No big deal - Until the buzzing and the flashing green light etc. began right after I got off the phone with Sears.......naturally.
Finally turned the set on after ten minutes of button pushing.
Left set on all day - @ ten hours. Turned set off all night - and OF COURSE
it won't start up today.

So - with one week to go - should I just leave the set on for a week - or is that dangerous - didn't seem to heat up yesterday, and I don't care about the bulb (I'll just put it on a blank video input anyway). Is there an electrical risk here?

Or since it's not really my set, should I pop the front and reseat the bulb.

Or just be without tv for a week - not totally unacceptable.

And do we think this problem will go away with the next shipment of sets?
I didn't spend this much money on a TV in order to practice the finer points exchange policy with Sears. Also - what happens if this occurs after the 30 day grace period - which I am going to ask them to extend.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, we really do love this TV.


DanS
post #56 of 2840
I just reseated the lamp in my TV even though it was completely tight. After the reseat I turned it on and there was no buzz. It is only a single data point, but it's a good sign. I am still going to request a new lamp from the Place I purchased it from.

Mike
post #57 of 2840
Let me try this again since I am going to deal with this in about an hour.

If I leave the set on for the next seven days, until my replacement is delivered, will I be creating a FIRE HAZARD in my house.

Or should I mess with the bulb.

HT, UMR Anyone???

Thanks in advance.
post #58 of 2840
After reading all these messages, I'm coming to the following conclusion:

1) A brief startup buzz is a normal side effect of the voltages necessary to kick-start the lamp. The glowing component is also a normal part of this circuity.

2) Many early lamp failures can be fixed by reseating the lamp. These premature lamp failures are accompanied by multiple buzzing due to bad connectivity between the bulb assembly and the socket resulting in multiple startup attempts.

Mine quit after 3 days with buzzing and the "Lamp" light going red. I reseated the bulb (which didn't appear loose, or even badly seatable due to the design), and it worked again right away and has worked since. I still get a very brief buzz on power on, but that's it.

A brief buzz doesn't bother me, but I still want to talk to a technician about this. If some sets have NEVER buzzed at all, I'm kind of concerned.
post #59 of 2840
Quote:
Originally posted by dans03
Let me try this again since I am going to deal with this in about an hour.

If I leave the set on for the next seven days, until my replacement is delivered, will I be creating a FIRE HAZARD in my house.

Or should I mess with the bulb.

HT, UMR Anyone???

Thanks in advance.
Re-seat the bulb and look for your library card if that doesn't work.

Anything electrical has safety risks when they are on. I don't know why your TV would be anymore dangerous than leaving a computer and a 120w light bulb on for a week. But, then, I don't really know. :D
post #60 of 2840
I've had my '50WE610 for about a month. It's on for maybe 4 hours a day. I've had the previously mentioned buzz at startup since day one and ignored it assuming it had something to do with lighting the lamp. Being in TV I've also had a lot of dealings with arc and HMI lights. Anyway after being out of town for 3 days over Thanksgiving it won't turn on and the buzz happens briefly then the LAMP light blinks. I reseated the lamp a couple times. The lamp looks brand new. Unfortunately in my area there are no lamps so my dealer is turning over every stone to get me one.

More to come as it happens.

I posted this on the "owners" thread before I realized there was a thread where I could get a buzz....
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