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DVI board issues with Panny 6? - Page 3  

post #61 of 118
WP: DVI has nothing to do with HD (short answer).
DVI is a digital interface, if your source has a digital out (dvi) and the receiver has digital in (dvi), then the signal will go from the source to the receiver without any conversion that could result in lose of PQ.

-Alan
post #62 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Johnson
WP. Have you heard of a new version of the blade being release or is it just wishfull thinking on your part?
Well...ive been reading so many posts on this blade that I may just be making things up by now...but what my understanding is that there should be a new one coming out sometime soon...to correct some problems...

I don't think it matters for me b/c i have a edtv...not HD....so I could probably just get the blade now.....do you know where I can get one? (good deal?)....

Oh and Alan.,..thanks for the info..I guess my curiosity is the question about watching the tv with component or dvi.....Im guessing by now that the answer...yes there is a slight diff.. btw using component and DVI....
Hence i should buy that darn DVI card :).....


Cheers, william.
post #63 of 118
William, I bought mine from Dell as full price. My Panny is backordered from them ... so if they end up canceling my order then I should have no problem getting a full refund on the blade if I end up going with a different plasma. I ordered it about 2 weeks ago. When I did a price search at the time, the cheapest I found was about $200. Its a real low volume item so I doubt you'll see deep discounts.

BTW, Merry Christmas.
post #64 of 118
WP: If you are going to watch SD TV, then it is recommended by most that you should use S-Video or composite and in your case, use component for HD even if you have an ED Plasma. SD on component/DVI does not cut it, you just get magnified artifacts. Please read this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=NTSC

-Alan
post #65 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by jeepman
This exactly what I was waiting to hear. According to the tech support guy at VA, I was not able to do 1366x768 on my 42" because it was only for the 50" model. Didn't matter that the manual didn't mark certain res's with an asterik indicating 50" model only. What this means is DVI is BROKE or the manual is plain wrong and I was misled!!!
I have what is probably a dumb question, but...

I am the proud owner of a TH-42PH6UY, with an empty slot. I am considering buying the DVI blade because I want to hook my HTPC to it. But in the manual, the scrren size for the 42 - No of pixels - says 1024 (w) x 768 (h). That seems to say to me that the resolution you'll want, for DVI, is 1024x768 native.

The manual states that the 50 has a 1366 x 768, so I understand why you'd want to drive that if you have the 50.

But for 42" owners like me, why would I even want to go to 1366?

jim
post #66 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by jlouderb
I have what is probably a dumb question, but...

I am the proud owner of a TH-42PH6UY, with an empty slot. I am considering buying the DVI blade because I want to hook my HTPC to it. But in the manual, the scrren size for the 42 - No of pixels - says 1024 (w) x 768 (h). That seems to say to me that the resolution you'll want, for DVI, is 1024x768 native.

The manual states that the 50 has a 1366 x 768, so I understand why you'd want to drive that if you have the 50.

But for 42" owners like me, why would I even want to go to 1366?

jim
Jim-
Your Plasma is an 852x480 native panel. It may support/scale 1024x768, but for 1:1 pixel mapping and to eliminate a second scaling in the blade or display, output 852x480 from your HTPC.
post #67 of 118
I just got my 50HD6UY and DVI blade - it came up offering 3 resolutions via the EDID, both on my powerbook G4 and on my Windows PC (the PC is all brand new hardware, Radeon 9600)

I found in both cases, selecting 1366x768 produced the same distortions on the right margin and a "foldover" pixel column on the left side (pixels should have been on the right side).

interestingly enough, both the PC and Mac use ATI graphics chips.

Does anyone know for certain that the issue is the card and not the display?

Does anyone know a DVI card which DOES work correctly at 1366x768, for certain?
post #68 of 118
I use the Imagine Graphics Pixel Perfect card on my WinXP PC and 50PHD6UY. It allows me to set the screen size to the native resolution. They are connected via DVI.

http://home.earthlink.net/~chrismco/snap.png

The Pixel Perfect card has some faults:
- Expensive!
- Does not support the latest DirectDraw drivers. This may keep you from playing some games or using cool screensavers and visualizations (WinAmp Milkdrop)
- Runs very hot, I added a video card cooler because the stock cooler is a joke.
- Does not support PC suspend modes
- Is not fast enough to play 1080i WMV files
- Driver GUIs are confusing

The pros:
- Works!
post #69 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Jim-
Your Plasma is an 852x480 native panel. It may support/scale 1024x768, but for 1:1 pixel mapping and to eliminate a second scaling in the blade or display, output 852x480 from your HTPC.
Actually, he said he has a 42PHD6UY, not a 42PWD6UY, so it has a native 1024x768 resolution like he said, not 852x480.

:)
post #70 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by gotapex
Actually, he said he has a 42PHD6UY, not a 42PWD6UY, so it has a native 1024x768 resolution like he said, not 852x480.

:)
I stand corrected.
post #71 of 118
Cool, I feel better that it is indeed possible to put native 1x pixel mapping via DVI on the 50PHD6UY.

Someday, if I get flush and adventurous, maybe I'll get the Faroudja box to do the scaling. Or not, just feel better knowing that it does work on the panel side.

My blade does offer 1366x768 as a selectable resolution on both Mac OSX and on WinXP with a very late model Radeon 9600 graphics card.

If the distortion is a product of the graphics chip, I can live with that.
post #72 of 118
Nuke,

I ordered a 50PHD6UY w/DVI blade from VA that will be delivered this week. My Mac G4 powerbook 17 has a nVIDEA GeForce4 MX video card. I will check it out and let you know.
post #73 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by nuke
My blade does offer 1366x768 as a selectable resolution on both Mac OSX and on WinXP with a very late model Radeon 9600 graphics card.
Are you saying that you can select a 1366x768 resolution in Win XP with Radeon 9600 video card? The consensus around here is that "standard" video cards only allow you to set resolutions that are evenly divisible by 8. 1366 is not evenly divisible by 8, so no go, even with Powerstrip.

If you've got a video card that you can set to 1366x768, let us know what make & model your video card is. I could have saved some $$$ using a Radeon card instead of my Pixel Perfect.
post #74 of 118
Why not use a "cheap" DVI video card at 1368x768, and then fix the overscan on your panny using the picture pos/size button? That's what I did, and as far as I can tell the result looks pixel perfect. (Lines displayed 1 pixel wide using monitest look fine).
post #75 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by bcc
Why not use a "cheap" DVI video card at 1368x768, and then fix the overscan on your panny using the picture pos/size button?
To keep the monitor from scaling. If the monitor is not fed its native resolution, it may scale the input, which could reduce PQ.

I think the pos/size adjustments affects timing, not resolution. I don't think there's a way to play with pos/size to "turn off" scaling.

But I've not experimented very much with this, so I don't know when/if the monitor scales and how that affects PQ. I wish the monitor had a "status" menu that displayed input resolution, scaling, timing, etc.

Do all video cards allow you to select 1368x768? Previous video cards I've tried didn't do 16:9 and had limited resolution selections.

And it's long been known that the Panny DVI card does not return the native resolution via EDID for the 50PHD6UY, making matters worse.
post #76 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by mcochris
Are you saying that you can select a 1366x768 resolution in Win XP with Radeon 9600 video card? The consensus around here is that "standard" video cards only allow you to set resolutions that are evenly divisible by 8. 1366 is not evenly divisible by 8, so no go, even with Powerstrip.

If you've got a video card that you can set to 1366x768, let us know what make & model your video card is. I could have saved some $$$ using a Radeon card instead of my Pixel Perfect.

YES!

The 1366x768 resolution is selectable. However, there is a distortion that appears on the right side of the screen and a fold-over column of pixels on the left side that belong on the right side. It has been discussed before and seems to be a problem with the ATI chipset.

The PC I built in the last month, using an ATI (branded - specifically) Radeon 9600 (Pro - XT? I don't remember exactly which - it has VGA and DVI outputs on it and 128mb of ram, cost about $199 at Fry's - it was very recently produced too). OS is WinXP Home, service pack 1.

The Powerbook is an older 1ghz Titanium, that still can boot OS9 and the 1366x768 is selectable in both OS9 and OSX.

The plasma is brand new, March 2004 as is the blade.

I tried two different DVI-D cables too.

Don't know if that helps you or not - the card wasn't exactly cheap, nor does it work exactly right. Some have reported success with powerstrip punching it up to 1368x768.

I checked the price on the Matrox Parhelia (whatever??) P650 - it's cheaper than the Radeon and some say that it should/might/does support the 1366 resolution.
post #77 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by mcochris
And it's long been known that the Panny DVI card does not return the native resolution via EDID for the 50PHD6UY, making matters worse.

It appears to be the case that newly produced displays and blades DO (positively) indicate native rate support on the 50PHD6UY. Mine does, for certain. I dumped the EDID and the resolution is definitely there.
post #78 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by mcochris
To keep the monitor from scaling. If the monitor is not fed its native resolution, it may scale the input, which could reduce PQ.

I think the pos/size adjustments affects timing, not resolution. I don't think there's a way to play with pos/size to "turn off" scaling.
By changing the hsize, you're affecting the number of pixels that the video card is able to send during the transmission of a single scan line. The extra two pixels should then wind up in the inactive left/right borders. Per:
http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/XFree86-Vid...WTO/specs.html
Quote:
But I've not experimented very much with this, so I don't know when/if the monitor scales and how that affects PQ. I wish the monitor had a "status" menu that displayed input resolution, scaling, timing, etc.
From the remote, setup->signal will at least show you the horizontal&vertical frequency, so you can see what bandwidth the panny is receiving from the video card. I get 48.4 horizontal and 60 vertical, so I can see that I'm where I should be for maximal bandwidth display.
Quote:
Do all video cards allow you to select 1368x768? Previous video cards I've tried didn't do 16:9 and had limited resolution selections.
Of course not all, but many do these days. I believe the powerstrip FAQ addresses this:
http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24
Quote:
And it's long been known that the Panny DVI card does not return the native resolution via EDID for the 50PHD6UY, making matters worse.
Right, you typically have to configure the panny native resolution as a custom resolution on your PC.
post #79 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by nuke
It appears to be the case that newly produced displays and blades DO (positively) indicate native rate support on the 50PHD6UY. Mine does, for certain. I dumped the EDID and the resolution is definitely there.
Can you run the moninfo program and cut&paste the raw EDID info? Would be interesting to compare the new official timings with those that we made up (and to correct ours if the official timings work better). Moninfo is available here:
http://www.entechtaiwan.net/util/moninfo.shtm
post #80 of 118
I can't do it for a few days. If you PM on thursday, I'll try to get it set back up. I presume this is a windows based utility?

I have a way to dump the edid from Mac OS X, and translate it into human-readable terms.
post #81 of 118
Thread Starter 
mcochris wrote:
Quote:
I use the Imagine Graphics Pixel Perfect card on my WinXP PC and 50PHD6UY. It allows me to set the screen size to the native resolution. They are connected via DVI.
Cool!
At what refresh rates can you achive 1:1 pixel mapping? Specifically, can it be done in 50Hz?
post #82 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by ph0sphor
At what refresh rates can you achive 1:1 pixel mapping? Specifically, can it be done in 50Hz?
I'm not sure but probaby so since the card is made in the UK. Check out the Imagine Graphics website at http://www.imaginegraphics.co.uk/
post #83 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by bcc
Can you run the moninfo program and cut&paste the raw EDID info? Would be interesting to compare the new official timings with those that we made up (and to correct ours if the official timings work better). Moninfo is available here:
http://www.entechtaiwan.net/util/moninfo.shtm

Here's a report from this program:


Monitor
Windows description......... Plug and Play Monitor
Manufacturer description.... TY-42TM6D
Manufacturer................ Panasonic
———————————————————— ————————
Plug and Play ID............ MEIA005
Serial number............... 262 (14900262)
———————————————————— ————————
Manufacture date............ 2004, ISO week 9
EDID revision............... 1.3
Display type and signal..... Digital
Sync input support.......... (n/a)
Screen size................. 920 x 520 mm (~44")
Power management............ Not supported

Color characteristics
Display gamma............... 2.20
Red chromaticity............ Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.345
Green chromaticity.......... Gx 0.291 - Gy 0.635
Blue chromaticity........... Bx 0.163 - By 0.093
White point (default)....... Wx 0.288 - Wy 0.296

Timing characteristics
VESA GTF support............ Not supported
Horizontal scan range.......
Vertical scan range.........
Video bandwidth.............
Timing recommendation....... 1366x768 at 60Hz
Modeline................ "1366x768" 87.430 1366 1404 1588 1808 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync

Standard timings supported
640 x 480 at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600 at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768 at 60Hz - VESA
1152 x 1152 at 61Hz - VESA
1360 x 765 at 60Hz - VESA
1366 x 768 at 60Hz - Panasonic

Raw EDID (1)
00: 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 34 A9 05 A0 06 01 00 00
10: 09 0E 01 03 80 5C 34 78 0A DA FF A3 58 4A A2 29
20: 17 49 4B 21 08 00 8B C0 01 01 71 01 01 01 01 01
30: 01 01 01 01 01 01 27 22 56 BA 51 00 26 30 26 B8
40: 36 00 4C 6E 42 00 00 19 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FC
70: 00 54 59 2D 34 32 54 4D 36 44 0A 20 20 20 00 60

Display adapter
Adapter description......... RADEON 9600 SERIES
Adapter device ID........... 0x41521002
Display settings............ 1366x768, 32bpp

User/computer information
Registered user name........
Registered organization.....
Network user name...........
Network computer name....... BIGP4
Windows version ............ Windows XP
Windows build .............. 5.01.2600 Service Pack 1
Installation date .......... 3/14/2104 9:06:50 AM
post #84 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by mdryja
Well, you can output a computer at 1365/6x768 resolution no problems.

See www.imaginegraphics.co.uk -- I have one of these running a 852x480 Panny plasma, albeit with the VGA (analog) input.
does this mean that the text is crisp compared to outputing xga from my video card and having it scaled to 852x480 and making text look squashed and fuzzy?
post #85 of 118
Thank you Nuke.

I've just enquired as to what Panasonic Canada is going to do about upgrading the previous board that does NOT support the resolutions that are described in the manual.

Santo
post #86 of 118
For those with the 42PHD6UY: Do you see the screen centered correctly all the time. My setup sometimes has about 40 pixels from the right end up on the left I think becuase of an underscan. I ended up creating a specific resolution using PS with the parameters below. Just curious if I am the only one noticing this.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1032x768=1032,40,56,224,768,3,6,29,65382,1

Generic timing details for 1032x768:
HFP=40 HSW=56 HBP=224 kHz=48 VFP=3 VSW=6 VBP=29 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"1032x768" 65.382 1032 1072 1128 1352 768 771 777 806 +hsync +vsync
post #87 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by nuke
I just got my 50HD6UY and DVI blade - it came up offering 3 resolutions via the EDID, both on my powerbook G4 and on my Windows PC (the PC is all brand new hardware, Radeon 9600)

I found in both cases, selecting 1366x768 produced the same distortions on the right margin and a "foldover" pixel column on the left side (pixels should have been on the right side).

interestingly enough, both the PC and Mac use ATI graphics chips.

Does anyone know for certain that the issue is the card and not the display?

Does anyone know a DVI card which DOES work correctly at 1366x768, for certain?
I just received a 50PHD6UY w/DVI blade from VA yesterday. My Mac G4 powerbook 17 has a nVIDEA GeForce4 MX video card. I plugged it in and 1366x768 was selected automatically. There was no distortion on either side. The plasma seemed very sharp including text. However, there were ~10 black pixels on either side (but none on the top or bottom). Does this mean that it isn't mapped 1:1? I played a DVD (Superbit issue of the Patriot) using the Mac DVD Player and the picture was stunning.
post #88 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by rumn8r
I just received a 50PHD6UY w/DVI blade from VA yesterday. My Mac G4 powerbook 17 has a nVIDEA GeForce4 MX video card. I plugged it in and 1366x768 was selected automatically. There was no distortion on either side. The plasma seemed very sharp including text. However, there were ~10 black pixels on either side (but none on the top or bottom). Does this mean that it isn't mapped 1:1? I played a DVD (Superbit issue of the Patriot) using the Mac DVD Player and the picture was stunning.
The panel is probably 788 not 768 in reality. Unless the blade is forcing some overscan.
post #89 of 118
Quote:
Originally posted by rumn8r
I just received a 50PHD6UY w/DVI blade from VA yesterday. My Mac G4 powerbook 17 has a nVIDEA GeForce4 MX video card. I plugged it in and 1366x768 was selected automatically. There was no distortion on either side. The plasma seemed very sharp including text. However, there were ~10 black pixels on either side (but none on the top or bottom). Does this mean that it isn't mapped 1:1? I played a DVD (Superbit issue of the Patriot) using the Mac DVD Player and the picture was stunning.
Sounds like the nVidea chip has a similar issue with 1366 columns of pixels (divisable by 8?) and solves it by trimming the sides in, rather than spilling some pixels like the ATI chip.
post #90 of 118
It does sound like it maybe only putting out 1360x768 or something similar, is it definitely ~10 pixels or is it less, 1360 is the nearest multiple of 8 and so this maybe all it can get from a graphics card (though I think the Matrox cards can do non divisible by 8 resolutions?), the Fujitsu P50 has this same issue of only displaying 1360x768. If this is the problem then you will be getting 1:1 just with a few missing pixels each side.
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