Misty Evening + Silver "one-coat" solution - Page 15

Here is the same picture full screen on ME

Some other observations.

Although the tall panel to the left of center appears brighter, the effect is not as desirable as it might appear. Contrast issues create some yellowing of flesh tones, and SDE is unfortunatly enhanced.

IMO

The posted pic shows SD/MM as a Undercoat-topcoat on the left, and as a two sided coating on the right. The left panel shows both coats applied, the right shows the SM on the back.

Hey, if MM can have sushi leftovers...

On with the show. The following is a "lay the cards on the table' approach. Nothing is left to chance. What you see is it. (they do look even better than the screen shots but only two sets of eyes are privy to that)
All images were from my Sanyo Z1.
All images were captured on my Oly ES100, Aperture mode, auto WB, ISO 100
Set-Up remains the same on ALL screen shots:

Three plexiglass samples atop ME grey screen, IN THIS ORDER:
Top Left- Original hand rolled Super Deluxe
Top Right-MM's signature SD version-SD with "Mississippi Mud" topcoat
Bottom Left- Super Deluxe-sprayed not rolled
Bottom Right-ME grey screen

Screenshot # 1- Yes, you have seen all these before but NEVER like this.

remember her?

yes, her again.

Again. You'll get use to it.

these guys have a thing for lighting, don't they?

more NK lovin'

The last in this series. Sorry, it's her again. Skintone thing, you know.
Truly, I say to all, good as these are, they look even better in real time (in motion) on my 100" screen, and without the camera artifacts.

Brava!

#1 #2 # 5 #6 really tell the tale. The rest have such unusal lighting, you must judge by clarity and smoothness of color, whatever that may be.

I'll vouch again, the difference in real life leaves one trembling with delight.

I'm seriously proud to have been part of your ongoing efforts, CMRA. Everyone MUST remember that I was a dubious skeptic as to the necessity of using Plexiglas to achieve the very best results, but as the posted results show, that's all in the past.

It won't be used in every application I do, but you all can be sure, where it CAN be used, it WILL be used.

DIY while it's still unusual and distinctive, because after this application get's reviewed at the next shoot out, there will be no compromisin'.

DDogg who?

Looking good, guys!

Based on your favorite of the screens sampled, I'd love finalized instructions so I can make one of these!! I think I'm going to make a swatch and compare it to Ddog 1.0 (as it were).

I did some searching for Plexiglass in my screen size (44x103) and no luck. So I'll probably just do the Silver base, MissippiMudd topcoat. Any luck on getting a finalized, step-by-step formulation?

GREAT work, you guys! And thanks for all the hard work!

Check back towards the beginning on "Friday Night Fish Leftovers"

Email me for additional instructions if there is anything unclear. be sure to use the latest mix, or tell me what PJ your going to use and I'll make any slight necessary adjustment.

Don't give up on finding the Plexi just yet.

CMRA? Can you assist the poor fellow?

would it be possible to consolidate a list of links or thread names where the instructions/forumlas for these samples are? I for one would appreciate it.

There should be a sticky at the top of this forum where only finalized (well, as final as they get around here) screen recipes can be posted .

Gentleman, GENTLEMAN!

I know Christmas is coming, but would you have Santa pull his beard out by the roots in frustration?

A simple search of posts submitted by whichever Guru's formula is in question will turn up a listing by Posted subject, and in all threads he/they have participated in.. From there, your searching should be far easier.

Just hit the button on top each post that says' "Search' and you will be rewarded with a listing of each post, with an abbreviated intro. Most of my Posts start with a heading that should help you separate the valuable info from the redundant tripe.

Both CMRA & myself have noted you requests. Such a definitive work is in the offing, but it is problematical that permission to insert a permanent post on "Screens" will be granted. We are participants here on AVS, not Moderators, and one must be careful not to ask too much of, or stir the ire of the Lords of the Threads. I personally have experienced the Fires of Retribution that issue forth from the Cracks of Doom where the Moderators dwell, and have no wish to be singed again.

I for one will always strive to assist a fellow AVS'er who makes a valid request for help. I'm currently off today to acquire actual color samples on stir sticks to send off to Sweden, Singapore, and Portugal.

What a Guy! Eh? Ask, and ye shall recieve. And hopefully, what goes out comes back again many fold. If helping others stirs people to help others in need, we are all better off for the time spent.

But bless their souls, neither 'requestee' has dunned me for the requested samples, which is good since I've weathered Flu (...lost 15 lbs!) and another cross country jaunt since having been asked. Such courtesey is rare in these days of "I WANT IT NOW!" attitudes. Trouble is, it makes me feel guilty for having been sick and busy. See what being patience can do?

If someone, ANYONE on AVS who is following this thread, or other related threads, has a burning desire to get started yesterday, and needs exacting instructions to do so, then make the request directly to me via post or PM, and it will be serviced promptly. Just be honest in your necessity to expedite the receipt of such info, so as not to wear out the harbinger of such knowledge to the point of frustration.

Want to paint a wall screen as simply as possible? Easy to do.
Want to learn how to prep a wall and wet sand finishes? Got the info waiting.
Want to move into more complex, multi layer paint schemes? It's waiting too.
Dare to consider the Super Deluxe/MississippiMud Plexiglas application?
It's a known value now, and directions can be given out.

But PLEASE, on all of the above, wait until you have a serious need for the info to ask for our personal intervention. That courtesy will help us maintain sanity, and have the time to explore other ideas and options. This is to everyones' advantage.

Hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, but I created a thread for the new recipe that CRMA/MM created

Here you go

CRMA/MM SuperPlex Formula

MM,

If you used an actual mirror, do you feel the result would be better than the Plexi back-coated with SM?

I ask this because I have a large (3ftx3ft) piece of "safety mirror" (mirrorized plexiglas) that I purchased for another project. This is not any heavier than normal Plexi and as I recall, it was not much more expensive than Plexi either.

Since reading CMRA's earlier results with his Plexi screen I have wondered if my Plexi Mirror would make a good substrate, but also wondered if it would be "too" reflective. Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.

Mswauger

Step on. There are no 'stinkin' boundaries if the intent is good.

But be advised, your thread will require matinence, or it will surely dissappear

fun stuff.

A question, and an offer...

the question:

Did you, perchance, try a silver base with layers of clear, then the MM topcoat? Especially if you use a gloss clear, you shouldn't kill any of the silver and may duplicate, to some level, the results of the plexi. I think? I like the results enough that, when I get the opportunity to take over the garage again without a broken car to fix, I just may have to shoot my screen with that combo to see how it goes, but I won't have the ability to shoot comparisons with the other samples.

The offer:

I can host a how-to on my website - it's mine, and isn't going anywhere any time soon (probably not till the internet dies). You can put together an HTML page with images, or you can e-mail me pics and write-up and I'll assemble it. Then, ya just have to remember the link when people ask.

C

Awlrite,

here's the thought.

Mirrors offer their own reflective depth. They bend light, as well as transpose the image.

Only a "First surface" mirror would be appropriate. Your Plexi mirror is not among that company.

The use of the Silver metallic on the backside of Plexi is a way to achieve a more neutral degree of reflectivity. Let me clarify that. The SM reflects the light that reaches it as directly back as possible, and is not hindered by the depth of material it must pass the reflected light back through (1/8' plexi) the Top Coat is translucent enough to allow a good deal of the light to pass through, react to the properties inherent in the Silver Metallic's finish.

Since there is effectively no lag time between when the light hits the Top Coat, passes through to contact the SM, and then reflects back through the Top Coat to join up with light that did NOT pass through, the combination creates the final image you see.

Light comes in various wavelengths, all with their own specific properties, some of which will react to the Silver, some of which will react to the white in the Top Coat. hence, the reason for the creation of a multi layered finish.

The added effect that the ultra clear transitional boarder that the Plexi affords seems to create a depth of field akin to a perfectly layed down multi layer car finish. Done properly, such a finish reflects light almost as good as any mirror. but who can afford a 8 to 12 layer Finish on their Auto? Not many.

Nor can one apply that many layers of Latex without creating a opaque finish. When using the SM/Top Coat method on a single sided surface, care must be taken not to overload the top coat to the point that the SM's reflectivity is grossly reduced. Some reduction is essential, and in keeping with that, the mix is designed to be as translucent as possible, while still maintaining enough white pigment to help enhance the brightness and color uniformity of the lighter colors of the spectrum. The SM is primarily there for contrast enhancement, and the 'metallic' aspect is there to offset the dampening effect Grey hues have on most lighter colors.

the sum total should be a screen that reflects as much light as directly back to the viewer as possible, yet not so much as to wash out the detail that the varying levels of greyscale bring to an image. Contour cannot be achieved if there is no subtle shadows, and without shadow our world would be decidedly two dimensional.

Which is why the Plexi scheme is so incredible. The slight additional depth afforded by the 1/8" Plexi, combined with the reflective/enhancing properties of the Silver and Top Coat work together to create the very best blending of Contrast and Screen brightness I personally have ever experienced. Anywhere. It's like there was a light bulb 'behind' the screen. (CRT, that is.) And at the cost involved, no one in the Screen industry with an ounce of honesty could ever say that it isn't the most affordable way to "eat their lunch".

The highest gain screens available all come as a one piece unit, no matter how big. They do not/cannot be flexible or roll up & down. That should tell you that to achieve what they do, they must have a constantly stable platform to layer on their reflective material. They also must employ a slight curvature to reject ambient light coming from the sides.

yadda, yaddya, yaddya. let 'em eat light.

So don't bother with a mirror application unless you have the right mirror. Oh, you can certainly experiment with the mirror you have, but be advised that all you going to get is mediocre results for you efforts.

Better still, don't waste paint on a effort that is less than it could/should be. even a 3' x 3' foot surface will gobble up money better spent on paint for a know value.

A wise man quoting wisdom.

You just might be taken up on that offer.

Gloss is not desirable.

The perlescence takes the place of gloss, and is itself dampened somewhat through dilution by Deep Base and Ultra Pure White Flat.

Clear Glaze has been used by CMRA & DDogg & others, and the use of such seems to offer no more advantage than Pearlescence, but the Pearlescence also contains some white pigment. Why complicate things by combining different materials when one mix has is all?

To my line of reasoning, you'd have to layer on about 20 coats of clear to achieve a 1/8" layer. Seems redundant, if not downright impossible, due to the fact than any one coat should/must be sanded to allow the following coat the "tooth" adhesive needed so as not to flake off, and any discrepancy in the quality of the finishes would have detrimental effects. Lastly, the reflectablity of so many coats would detract, not add to the precision to which the light would reflect back toward the room. In other words, you'd scatter more light than reflect.

But hey, your "offer" made great good sense, so your batting .500

I will keep it up as long as I am around, if there are any changes, or if someone asks for the formula.

Wadda Guy!

Consider yourself an honorary member of the Insane Screen Painters Guild.

What is a "First Surface" mirror?

Back to school time.

First surface mirrors have thier reflective coating on the top, regular mirrors have thier coatings on the rear. First surface mirrors are use primarily when precise optics demand virtually no abhorrent changes in the light being reflected. Most present reflect-ability values of at least 93% of all light received, with the best approaching 97%.

Guess where such mirrors are primarily used?

In Rear Projection TVs

They cost a bundle, and I have NEVER even seen one offered commercially that was over 2'x 4'

It a useless direction to go down, unless....you have an old RPTV down in the garage waiting to be tossed. You could then salvage that mirror, put a MM top coat on it, and have the nicest 'little' PJ screen around.

Not worth it it, is it?

Now for the real education.

When looking for information on virtually ANY subject, there is an amazing tool available to the masses who own computers with Internet connections called" A Search Engine". Upon receiving your request, it took me all of 30 seconds to retrieve the above info by entering,"First Surface Mirrors" in the Microsoft "Search" window.

Ain't technology a kick? It can make pretentious 'know it alls' out of almost anybody.

Egads! I just remembered!

I have a old defunct 46" RPTV down in my barn collecting dust. It dates back to when they used real Oak for cabinets, so I've been holding on to it to make some sort of small Amoir for storing clothes.

Will I remove the mirror and try out the "First Mirror" hypothisis?

Probably not.


But I'll sell it for $25.00 plus shipping to any fool....., er, I mean anybody who wants it.

Sure. What makes you think he's poor?
For the record: Nice sample size pieces sell at HD for $2.99 each.
Much better to go this route first. Go big when you are ready.