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Greenville, SC - HDTV - Page 27

post #781 of 10293
Yep...it was fixed before I went to work this morning.
post #782 of 10293
I'm glad to see we have some good contacts for the local stations! Does anybody have similar contacts with Charter? Do we know when they'll be adding our new local HD feeds to their service? I'm seriously considering going to a satellite + OTA antenna, since I'm missing all this HD football!

PS: This is my 1st post. Great forum!
post #783 of 10293
Well, I called Charter last night to inquire about HD channel expansion and was told there were no immediate plans to add any more HD channels. I got the standard "we're working on it" line. Doesn't seem like it would be a chore to add Discovery, Cinemax, TMC, or the networks if they can get the feed to the Charter office or wherever it originates.
post #784 of 10293
The problem is money. We have to pay these companies money for each subscriber. Example, in the last three years, ESPN has jumped up about 300%+ for each sub. WSPA,WLOS and Fox want money to pass their HD signals on the local levels. I know the Discovery channels are the next target, but again it is money that is holding it up.

When I hear of some movement on this, I'll let you know.

cruxer, I have Charter and an over the air antenna, and it works great.
post #785 of 10293
I know that the local stations want compensation for cable systems to carry their HDTV signals. With D* preparing to offer local HDTV to their subscribers, does D* have to do the same kind of negotiations with the locals? For me, this is academic question, since I do not have a clear view of the southwest and a dish is not possible. I also can not get WSPA-DT OTA in my part of north Asheville.
post #786 of 10293
Quote:


Originally posted by IfixitBIG
The problem is money. We have to pay these companies money for each subscriber. Example, in the last three years, ESPN has jumped up about 300%+ for each sub. WSPA,WLOS and Fox want money to pass their HD signals on the local levels. I know the Discovery channels are the next target, but again it is money that is holding it up.

When I hear of some movement on this, I'll let you know.

cruxer, I have Charter and an over the air antenna, and it works great.

I personally believe these stations should receive some compensation for there HD siganals. As long as the amount is based on the number of Charter HD subscribers. Charter charges extra for their HD package, so I dont see why it could not be worked out.

I am with DirecTv and OTA for my HD, but if Charter ever got the NFL ST, and had all locals I would probably dump the dish.
post #787 of 10293
I wonder how much the local channels want? My Charter bill is as follows:

Date Description Amount
10/16- 11/15 Biggest Value Package 68.99
10/16- 11/15 Service Discount 18.99 CR
10/16- 11/15 High Speed Internet 3m 42.95
10/16- 11/15 Service Discount 12.96 CR
10/16- 11/15 The Movie Tier 4.00
10/16- 11/15 Addressable Converter 3.96
10/16- 11/15 HDTV Service 3.00
10/16- 11/15 HD Pak Movies & Ent 3.99

Sub Total 94.94

The HD Pak is for the 2 HDNet channels and ESPNHD. The HDTV service gets you the Mot 6200 STB and WYFF HD and HBO & SHO if you subscribe to them. The 3.00 a month would have to cover the bandwith that Charter is using out of their physical plant to provide the service and for the STB itself. That does not leave much, if anything to share with the local stations. I am still curious if the local stations would want the same thing from satellite providers. At least they do not ask for royalties from antenna and tuner manufacturers.
post #788 of 10293
Does Charter still have to pay the local stations once they change their "must-carry" designation to the digital station?

Also do you know if Charter offers a box that accepts OTA channels alongside cable? I don't have a built-in ATSC tuner, which is why I'm considering satellite. I understand that converters are available that will accept the satellite and antenna inputs for HD.
post #789 of 10293
I use DirecTV and OTA for my HD signals. I've experienced and heard of so many horror stories from Charter Communications that I don't even bother with their HD package, especially when its still in "beta" testing for the most part. If I weren't using DirecTV for HD, I might consider going C-Band aka BUD (yeah, I know, it might be old school, but its PQ knocks the socks off anything else, plus look at all of the free wildfeeds and backhauls you get). I've got some many trees that a big dish doesn't seems feasible. Cable is just so expensive for what little you get when it works, so I'm happy with my dish.
post #790 of 10293
I was looking for info on HDTV to purchase which lead me to this site. I'm pleasantly surprised to find this thread for where i live. First off i'm a "rookie" in the HDTV area, this weekend my son and i are going looking for a new family tv. Presently we are looking at the Sony 55XS955, 55wf655, and the hitachi one cant remember name like vs810. I honestly do not know anything about HDTV besides Charter and Directtv have HD packages. Personally my family and I hate charter but i cant live without cable internet. My desire for HDTV is purely sports driven so ABC,CBS,FOX seem to most important to me along with primetime tv for my wife and the kids are still small so dvds and kid shows. From what i have read those channels are avaible OTA so i will need an anntena to get them.

There are my family's needs, my question to you guys is exactly what do i need to get fullfill those needs. Show i stay with Charter with their HD package or switch to D-TV (FOOTBALL PACKAGE)and honestly does it matter if i have to use antena anyway. So i will need to buy an antenna and maybe a preamp from what i read, what antenna do you guys recommend? This is the most scarey purchase i have ever made due to the fact i'm nervous about the SD channels PQ because a large % of the veiwing of the TV will be on those channels for the kids. I cant even think of the grief my wife will give me after shelling out the dough for this setup and having worse PQ on most channels. So any help would be appreciated ie Charter or DirectTV, Antenna which one, Pre-amp???

Thanks
Jon
post #791 of 10293
Quote:


Originally posted by jeccleston
I was looking for info on HDTV to purchase which lead me to this site. I'm pleasantly surprised to find this thread for where i live. First off i'm a "rookie" in the HDTV area, this weekend my son and i are going looking for a new family tv. Presently we are looking at the Sony 55XS955, 55wf655, and the hitachi one cant remember name like vs810. I honestly do not know anything about HDTV besides Charter and Directtv have HD packages. Personally my family and I hate charter but i cant live without cable internet. My desire for HDTV is purely sports driven so ABC,CBS,FOX seem to most important to me along with primetime tv for my wife and the kids are still small so dvds and kid shows. From what i have read those channels are avaible OTA so i will need an anntena to get them.

There are my family's needs, my question to you guys is exactly what do i need to get fullfill those needs. Show i stay with Charter with their HD package or switch to D-TV (FOOTBALL PACKAGE)and honestly does it matter if i have to use antena anyway. So i will need to buy an antenna and maybe a preamp from what i read, what antenna do you guys recommend? This is the most scarey purchase i have ever made due to the fact i'm nervous about the SD channels PQ because a large % of the veiwing of the TV will be on those channels for the kids. I cant even think of the grief my wife will give me after shelling out the dough for this setup and having worse PQ on most channels. So any help would be appreciated ie Charter or DirectTV, Antenna which one, Pre-amp???

Thanks
Jon

I recently purchased a Hitachi 51F510, which is the 51" CRT-Projection set. I did considerable research, and I decided that the Hitachi was marginally better than the Sony, although they were both well-regarded. I am delighted with its performance, after returning a Samsung, which was not very good at all..

I use DirecTV, with the Hughes High-Definition DVR (Expensive!) which also has two off-air tuners, and can record either off-air or Satellite, two shows at once.

The consensus for antennas seems to be the Channel-master 4-bay (4224?) or 8-bay (4228) (Mine) Bow-tie/panel, since it has high gain, and a fairly wide pattern, permitting many to receive several channels without moving the antenna. I get CBS, ABC, NBC, UNC, SC-ETV, Fox, and even UPN without changing the direction. From my location, however, I cannot even detect the WB station on Digital, and the analog is very weak.

Keep in mind that this is a UHF-Only design, but I get a strong signal on Channel 9!!!

For a preamp, get the Channel Master 7777. There others, but this one seems to have good gain, low noise, and reasonable immunity to overload from strong signals. I tried a Radio Shack preamp, and it was a disaster if my antenna was anywhere near pointed to the Toccoa station.

As for Cable and Internet, you should be able to drop the TV, and keep the internet if you want to. I believe this is mandated by law, and I know others who are doing this. My son in GA has Internet only, and uses Vonage for telephone, and Dish Network for TV.

If you buy a TV, and a tuner, and want to experiment a little, I have an antenna and a preamp which I no longer use. If you are interested, please PM me...
post #792 of 10293
Jon - all three of the sets you mentioned have integrated ATSC tuners, so that cuts down your costs significantly. I live in Simpsonville too and use a Channel Master 3010 Stealthtenna ($35.99 from SolidSignal.com) and a Channel Master 3042 preamp ($22.99 from SolidSignal.com). I'm still too lazy to get around to mounting the antenna, but even with it just sitting inside and on my living room floor, I can very reliably pick up ABC, Fox, NBC, CBS, ETV, and WUNC in HD.

One advantage with Charter is being able to use their HD-capable DVR. You can use the HDTivo with DirecTV, but I believe that costs a grand. If you have digital cable now, upgrading to their HD package with a DVR would be an extra $14 ($4 for HDNet, HDNet Movies, and ESPN-HD; $10 for the Moxi DVR; if you subscribe to HBO and/or Showtime, you get their HD-equivalents without any additional cost). You wouldn't be able to timeshift any of the locals in HD aside from WYFF, but I really like the DVR and see that as a huge checkbox in Charter's favor. My only big problem with it now is that Charter has HDNet and HDNet Movies transposed on the channel guide, which makes recording from those channels kinda problematic.

The question for you might be if Sunday Ticket is more appealing than a comparatively cheap DVR. Either way, you'll be using an antenna for locals, and the nice thing there is that it's a one-time cost, and even if you get a much nicer antenna than the one I mentioned, you should still be coming in somewhere in the vicinity of $100 - $125 for an antenna and preamp -- half that if you feel comfortable with what I mentioned.
post #793 of 10293
So let me get this straight the TVs i'm looking at have integrated ATSC tuner so i will not have to buy/get one from Charter or D* , i will just need an antenna for OTA HD channels? NOw my main worry is that my regular digital channels will not look as good as they do now my sony. How is you guys SD channels on a HD TV, when ever i go to BB/CC they tell methat cant get regular channels and just want to show me HDTV and the demo DVD. To me SD tv is still very important.

Jon
post #794 of 10293
Quote:


Originally posted by jeccleston
So let me get this straight the TVs i'm looking at have integrated ATSC tuner so i will not have to buy/get one from Charter or D* , i will just need an antenna for OTA HD channels? NOw my main worry is that my regular digital channels will not look as good as they do now my sony. How is you guys SD channels on a HD TV, when ever i go to BB/CC they tell methat cant get regular channels and just want to show me HDTV and the demo DVD. To me SD tv is still very important.

Jon

You might want to think carefully about a set with included DTV (ATSC) Tuner....

On another forum, there was discussion recently about a new 4th generation chipset, which allows reception of DTV signals under much poorer conditions than previously. This tuner was able to receive in areas where NTSC was unwatchable, and it's performance received praise from the engineers at Sinclair, who up until now had condemned ATSC to failure.

The inclusion of a tuner might be a little cheaper than an external box, but when the newer tuners become available, you can't remove and resell the original one to a bargain-hunter, which you could do with an external tuner.

My 2c
post #795 of 10293
Quote:
Originally posted by jeccleston
I was looking for info on HDTV to purchase which lead me to this site.
....... So any help would be appreciated ie Charter or DirectTV, Antenna which one, Pre-amp???

Thanks
Jon

Jon

Here are some answers that I can give to the best of my knowledge

1. HDTV can be viewed in LCD, DLP, CRT and plasma TV's. You need to buy a TV that already has a HDTV tuner built in or one that is HDTV ready. I have the latter and I bought a Samsung HDTV tuner. There are better ones than that like LG for OTC reception.

2. I subscribe to DISH but not their HDTV package. I am happy with local stations HDTV. You can get almost all of them via an outdoor antenna.

3. Channel master 4221 UHF antenna is good for picking up many HD stations. The 4228 is two 4221 joined and can pick up even more stations. The 7777 is a preamp that can amplify signals. Most HD channels are in UHF and you should get them with either antenna +/- the preamp. For local VHF signals you may or may not pick them up reliably with this antenna. The choice is to keep local stations (Basic or extended basic) Charter plus the internet for the time being and see how reliable is the local station's non HD reception via the antenna. Unless you want discovery HD or other football packages in HD you do not have to subscribe to those on Charter.

4. PBS of Greenville and Asheville have lot of kids programs on High definition. Lot of repeats- but do the kids really care?

Good luck in your venture.
post #796 of 10293
Quote:
Originally posted by jeccleston
So let me get this straight the TVs i'm looking at have integrated ATSC tuner so i will not have to buy/get one from Charter or D* , i will just need an antenna for OTA HD channels?

That is correct.

Quote:
Originally posted by rchalk
You might want to think carefully about a set with included DTV (ATSC) Tuner....

If he buys any recently-produced TV, he's going to have an ATSC tuner integrated into the set. It's standard-issue nowadays. If he wants to avoid using the internal tuner and spring for an external tuner down the road, there's nothing stopping him. To get up and running, I think he'd be fine using the internal tuner. I live in the same general area as Jon and haven't had any problems using the tuner built into my XS955.
post #797 of 10293
Quote:
Originally posted by Adam Tyner
That is correct.

If he buys any recently-produced TV, he's going to have an ATSC tuner integrated into the set. It's standard-issue nowadays. If he wants to avoid using the internal tuner and spring for an external tuner down the road, there's nothing stopping him. To get up and running, I think he'd be fine using the internal tuner. I live in the same general area as Jon and haven't had any problems using the tuner built into my XS955.

That may be becoming the standard with higher-priced sets, but it is definitely NOT "Standard Issue". Almost none of the under-$2000 sets have DTV tuners (including Samsung and Hitachi).

There was a misleading reference in the recent articles concerning the new chipset and the tuner demonstrated - the tuner was described as an LG3100A, but, in fact, it was a demo unit enclosed in a 3100A cabinet. I don't believe the new units are out yet, so there is very little difference between the current crop of "better" tuners.

Also, I did not mean to indicate that he couldn't use a newer tuner in the future, only that the $200 or so that it adds to the price of the set was locked in. Paying a little more for an external tuner provides the option of selling it later to someone on a tighter budget, and recovering some of the cost.

When I looked at the current crop of sets, those with internal ATSC tuners had fewer external inputs as well, which means that using an external tuner later uses up an input. The trend, however, seems to be to provide more inputs, so this may not be an issue.
post #798 of 10293
Quote:
Originally posted by jeccleston
So let me get this straight the TVs i'm looking at have integrated ATSC tuner so i will not have to buy/get one from Charter or D* , i will just need an antenna for OTA HD channels? NOw my main worry is that my regular digital channels will not look as good as they do now my sony. How is you guys SD channels on a HD TV, when ever i go to BB/CC they tell methat cant get regular channels and just want to show me HDTV and the demo DVD. To me SD tv is still very important.

Jon

Under some conditions, the NTSC pictures may not look great. This may be due to several factors, such as:

-The picture may be much larger than what you are used to, and the flaws show up much more.

-The HDTV sets provide up-conversion to the native display, either 1080i, or 720p (usually). This requires circuitry to interpolate the video for the conversion, which may lack memory or speed capacity to handle large amounts of random information like noise.

-The higher display resolution is more capable of displaying the imperfections like noise, ghosts, ringing, etc.

In my opinion, I never liked large-screen NTSC because of the high visibility of the scanning lines. With up-conversion, this is not a problem, and I much prefer the pictures on an HD display, even with the imperfections.
post #799 of 10293
Hi Jon,

Welcome to the forum. Just a few months ago I was a rookie myself. I lived in an apartment for the past 7 years and had the digital package from Charter feeding my 32' Wega. As I was saving to buy a home I budgeted a good deal for a home theater setup to include my first HDTV.

Reading the Rear Projection Forum here will provide a lot of information, and there are a lot of threads discussing the pros and cons of each technology. I might also suggest going to Jeff Lynch TV in Greenville and looking at their showroom. They've got just about all of the top brands and you can view regular SD programming coming from both Charter and DirecTV.

While there the first thing that jumped out at me was how much better the regular SD channels looked coming from DirecTV than Charter. They had a 57 inch and 51 inch Sony LCD nearby and one had Charter and one had DirecTV so I was able to see first hand the difference. So if you are wondering if the regular channels are going to look worse I would say definitely if you're going to stick with Charter no matter what brand or technology you go with. HD is going to look great coming from either.

For me the decision to go with DirecTV had been made long before, and I couldn't wait to move into my new home and be rid of Charter forever. What I saw at Jeff Lynch just confirmed it. As far as programming packages go I strongly recommend going with DirecTV and their HD package, and getting a good OTA antenna & pre-amp to pull in the local HD channels. I actually have a new in box Channel Master 4221 antenna if anyone is interested.

I use the HD Tivo from DirecTV which integrates the local HD channels into your DirecTV program guide even though it isn't coming from them. This allows you to record HD content either from the DirecTV HD package or from your OTA Local signals. I'm a single father of 4 kids so I don't have a chance to watch much live TV. The ability to time-shift HD shows is invaluable. Also since it has two tuners the kids can be watching a regular show while I am recording an HD show. The drawback to the HD Tivo is that you'll need $1000 start-up cash. To get a regular HD DirecTV receiver without the Tivo capability it would be $300 to get started and that would include two other rooms fed by a regular signal.

I did a lot of research on the different brands and technologies associated with HDTV's, and I decided to go with a CRT based Rear Projection TV from Hitachi. But I didn't have the wife factor to contend with. The safest choice is to go with a LCD Rear Projection TV from either Sony or Hitachi. While a CRT based set is going to have the best overall picture quality there are a few drawbacks that the wife especially will notice. On a CRT based TV you are not going to be able to sit at too many varying angles without the picture darkening a little bit, and when you stand up you'll notice the picture getting darker. For men these aren't big deals, but women tend to notice that kind of stuff. Also with CRT's you'll need to keep most ambient light out during the daytime so that you don't get glare. Again this isn't a big deal for me since I don't watch TV usually until after sunset anyway. But you might hear the significant other say something like "You mean we spent all that money and can't see it as good during the day!." Also the LCD based sets are going to look more technologically advanced since they are smaller and sleeker.

The drawbacks to LCD based sets is that they don't look as good in darker settings so you'd probably want to have a light on in or near the room you have it in at night. Also they don't display blacks too well so they look more like a dark gray. This isn't really noticeable though unless you're some place like Jeff Lynch and can compare an LCD to a CRT side by side. As you'll find the LCD based sets are going to be $1000 to $1700 more than the same size CRT based sets so you'll have to factor that in as well.

The best advice any of us can give is to do a lot of reading and go check these sets out in person looking at varying types of content. What I learned though is that the signal you feed your TV is just as important as the TV itself.
post #800 of 10293
Is fox having problems with the HD broadcast? Im just getting a stretched 720p upconverted image.
post #801 of 10293
Anyone know why WHNS isn't passing the game in HD tonight?

Edit: looks like me and thespy007 has the same thought at the same time,
post #802 of 10293
Maybe there are problems at a network level. I noticed a similar comment on the Honolulu thread, at least.
post #803 of 10293
Problem solved!
post #804 of 10293
Ok guys i have my tv setup the best i can until i can get a HD reciever from Charter. I went to RS today looking for antenna and preamp and they were clueless. I showed my wife the antenna i want to get CM 4228 but she said no way that is going on the house so my best option is in the attic. You guys think that will work? here is Simpsonville i'm 28-35 mioles from the towers and if i'm correct they are north of were i live i think they are 356-002 degrees if i remember correct from the antenna site.



Jon
post #805 of 10293
Is the Packers/Cowboys game not being shown on WHNS-DT? I get a black screen, but the regular WHNS is on.
post #806 of 10293
Thread Starter 
Jon...
Depending upon your location and the terrain, an attic mounted CM 4 or 8 bay antenna should serve you well. What does the CEA antenna locater and recommendation show for your area. (Website: http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx
I strongly recommend a rotor if one orientation of the CM antenna proves ineffective in receiving all stations. I tested a CM 777 pre-amp for the past three months, and have taken it out of the system. It proved effective for Channel 9 (PBS) out of Greenville, but caused multiple problems (from time to time) on all UHF stations. In many, many years of RF experience on the management side of TV station operations, I have found too many problems caused by Pre-amps and most were solved by doing away with them.) This is not to say that reception from distant stations (60+ miles) cannot be improved by pre-amps, but too often there is a nearby full power station that over-loads the preamp. Sometimes, it is necessary to notch-filter the nearby stations to balance the system. This is a task for experienced RF personnel.
Otherwise, you are in for a great treat if only you can capture all local OTA signals...and with either cable or satellite, it is still better.

Best of luck.
post #807 of 10293
WHNS finally came on during halftime!
post #808 of 10293
How does the Winegard AP-8275 compare to the Channel Master 7777? WHNS comes in, but it is very shaky. Unlike analog OTA reception difficulty, which is tolerable, DTV signal loss results in loss of audio and heavy artifacting on the image. It seems that that is one area that DTV has taken us backwards from analog....

In addition to the question about the Winegard vs the CM, I have one more question: My WYFF-DT signal holds at 62 and I NEVER have drop outs. My WHNS-DT signal fluctuates from 61-65 and remains green the whole time, but I experience a dropout every 7 seconds or so. It is almost unwatchable. Why would this be happening?
post #809 of 10293
Thread Starter 
gjowe: At my location, there are several analog TV stations that I could never receive with a useable picture...yet the digital signal comes in with reliability and of course with a studio quality picture. I am very particular after years in the business about video quality, and find the digital age remarkable and overshadowing the 10 to 15 seconds per hour of pixelization. As for pixelization and sound drop-outs, I have between season problems for a couple of weeks, but can easily adjust for that with a slight re-aiming of the antenna(s). I have a number of UHF amplifiers, and the older ones are relatively narrow band. They neither improve, nor degrade the signal. None approach the quality of the CM 7777. The CM 7777 increases the overall signal levels to the point that my 85-90 signal reading for most Digital channels now is 100%, but remember that the amplifier increases both the good and well as bad signals (including multi-path and co-channel, and rf noise). I haven't taken a look recently with a spectrum analyzer, and hope to do so soon...but I have a good idea that the noise level and signal level are both being increases by the same amount. (The CM amplifier contributes very little additional noise.) I would rather use my money to increase the off-air strength by using an 8 bay DM antenna that to add an amplifier which must cope with lin-of-sight signals already at 100%. In summary I now use only the VHF side of the CM amp.
post #810 of 10293
Quote:


Originally posted by gjlowe
(stuff deleted...)It seems that that is one area that DTV has taken us backwards from analog....


With the current crop of DTV tuners, there is still some succeptibility to multipath and noise, which might give that impression. However, there is a new decoder chip soon to be released which has shown in demonstrations to produce virtually perfect reception in locations where analog signals are unwatchable. Have a look at

rfupdate.broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_newgeneration_dtv_receiver/index.htm (don't forget the usual "http//" infront of this)

Remember that we are still in the infancy of DTV. We had the analog system for more than 50 years, and improvements were still ongoing well into the 1990s.

DTV as we know it was conceived in 1996 or so, and the first receivers were available about 1998, so we have barely scratched the surface.

I think the DTV results so far are spectacular!!! I, like Jerry, will gladly trade the occasional hiccup for the absolutely gorgeous sound and pictures the rest of the time, knowing that, in the longer term, the hiccups will be cured!
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